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mojogal 03-16-2006 09:34 AM

liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Results of the second blood test came back. Enzymes still raised but lower than they were. The wierd thing about this, since the first test, I have experienced pain on my right side and bloating. Thought the second test would come back even higher than the first. Does any one know if the enzymes are elevated, if it matters how high they are? I have heard that it doesn't matter how far beyond the normal range they are, just that they are elevated. If the liver enzymes are elevated, does that always mean the liver is enlarged/swollen?

Getting another blood test in one month to see if there is any improvement.

phovo 03-16-2006 02:41 PM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
mojogal, I went for a blood test today after visiting MD yesterday. She felt around my abdomen and liver area and felt no swelling. For one moment, I saw her "reach" into liver area like she was going to yank it out. :eek: She finished her exam by saying that she felt no swelling. Now I am waiting for my enzyme results.

The elevated enzymes that took me to the MD were AST 70 and ALT 124. She said they were moderately raised.

mojogal 03-17-2006 06:11 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Please let us know the results of your next blood test

nobodytotalkto 03-19-2006 12:13 PM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
I had the exact same thing happen to me in January. My enzymes were elevated, but I had no pain. I went in again for a second blood test and my enzymes dropped 11 points. I still had no pain but my enzymes were still higher than they should be. Anyways, after the doctor felt around, she could tell there was no swelling, even though at times, I can feel a "pressure" under my rib cage. My doctor sent me in for an ultra sound and as the woman was feeling around, she asked me "does this hurt?" I said no and she continued. A short time later she asked "are you sure it doesn't hurt?" At this time, I started getting scared that she had found something terribly wrong. Two weeks go by and I find out that my liver is 100% ok, but that I have gallstones. My doc tried to make me set up an appointment with a surgeon to have my gallbladder removed, but instead I opted to do a at-home-flush, and successfully passed between 500 and 2,000 gallstones myself. I have many more flushes to do, I'm sure, but I will do them rather than have the surgery (there are lots of hidden dangers that the surgeons don't warn you about). Anyways, NO elevated enzymes don't always mean liver damage or swelling. Good luck and check into possible gallstones, they're more common than you would think.

mojogal 03-21-2006 05:19 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--More Questions
How did they find the gallstones? Did the ultrasound show them? A friend of mine suggested a liver detox (flush), is that the same thing as a gall bladder flush? Did you use a homemade flush or store bought one? I do have pain under my ribcage, but it is not constant. Can gallstones cause the liver enzymes to elevate? Sorry about all the questions, I want to learn as much as possible in case I need to make a decision about treatment in the future.

Thank you.

phovo 03-21-2006 03:36 PM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Mojogal, when I was at the MD's last week, I asked her if these liver enzyme numbers could be gall bladder related. She said I would need additional elevated liver numbers for that, not just the AST and ALT. I cannot wait to hear responses for your question.

Flutterby2 03-22-2006 03:24 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
My husband had mildly elevated ALT levels about 6 months ago, up to arouund 120 I think. He was referred to a consultant who diagnosed suspected (NAFLD) fatty liver, this was later confirmed by an ultrasound. He was not particularly overweight and we have quite a good diet. He has been dieting and exercising as NAFLD is caused by a sedentary lifestyle and fatty diet and has now lost 28lb. He is due back at the hospital in about 6-7 weeks for a further blood test to determine whether this has made a difference to his levels. Fingers crossed it has.

He had fluctuating levels like you seem to have, has anyone suggested this as a diagnosis as the doctor suggested it is quite common.

nobodytotalkto 03-22-2006 09:44 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Ok, sorry it took so long to get back to you guys. When my enzymes were elevated, ONLY my ALT number was high. My AST number was still within range, though at the top of the range. NO OTHER LIVER NUMBER WAS HIGH - THIS WAS THE ONLY ELEVATED NUMBER ON MY WHOLE TEST SHEET ( sorry phovo, they lied to you)! The first blood test said my ALT enzymes were 59. Two weeks later, I went and had my liver enzymes re-tested for Hepatitis. Hepatitis negative thank goodness, but my ALT was still 48 (not very high but still higher than normal). A lot of people can have both numbers high, or just one. Plus anything over the norm can be gallstone warnings.

My doctor sent me in for an ultra sound. This is the only way I know of that gallstones can be found, besides passing them and finding them in the toilet (not very common but can happen). They are a build up of cholesterol and stuff, so they aren't solid enough to see on x-rays, cat scans and such. Mind you, I felt pressure under my ribcage but never pain (since finding out the I have Gallstones, I can actually recall two incidents that MIGHT have been attacks).

Once Gallstones were confirmed and my liver was 100% perfect -as the doctor told me, I decided that gallbladder surgery was not the option for me. I know you can do kidney flushes to rid kidney stones (they don't remove the kidneys), so why couldn't it be the same for the gallbladder? So I did research, and found a flush I wanted to try. Then I came on this board and talked with Happy Elf and In Your Dreams (who recommended the flush I wanted to do), and they helped me through my first flush. The liver flush is the same as the gallbladder flush. It tastes nasty and is hard to stomach, I won't lie but it works, and that is what is important to me. If you click on my name, look up my liver-related topics and you will find the recipe I used and my journey through it. I was so scared but it turned out fine. :) I am doing my second flush this weekend.

mojogal 03-23-2006 01:38 PM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Thank you for all the info. The flush sounds awful tasting...ewwww. Don't know if my stomach could tolerate that, I have a weak stomach. Was hoping you would tell me there was a magic pill or something... :). Since I don't know if gall stones are the problem, I am not going to do anything yet, although it sounds as though it can't hurt you. When you "flushed" is that all you had to "eat" all day..just the flush? How long did it take to start working? (If the answers to these questions were in your previous posts, I apologize, I couldn't find them).

I have learned something, HRT's can cause gall stones. I had a hysterectomy a little over two years ago and have been on HRT since. Go figure!

You mentioned you had what you thought were two attacks, what symptoms did you have with them?

Thanks again for all the info.

nobodytotalkto 03-24-2006 09:04 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
I don't mind answering questions even if they were posted somewhere else (I can't remember). :) If you want to know something, just ask away.

I don't think that a liver cleanse could hurt you, unless you had something terribly wrong with your liver. In that case, the amount of oil that you swallow at one time might harm the liver even more. But I don't remember reading anything about that happening and there are lots of people who have done it on the forum that I read on. Anyways, I don't want to say "do it", then you be the first that I know of. :) But in my opinion, you sound a lot like me and if you don't have the pain, then I wouldn't think you are high risk, again IMO.

YES the potion tastes dreadfull!!! I have no idea how people can take the Epsom salts in water alone. Brave people they are!!! As for me, I take it in 3 cups of fresh grapefruit juice instead (it's a pain sqeezing the grapefruits, but it's worth it.) and even then I have to go slow and stop in between. Helpful hint - have a hard peice of candy ready, swallow three sips of ES mixture through a straw, immediately put candy in mouth and suck on it for a minute or so until the taste is gone, then repeat until the 3/4 cup is gone. I didn't do this the first time and wanted to throw up. It was much easier the times following. But do not eat the candy! Only have it as a taste hider. I wish there was a magic pill for this!!! I might actually use honey with the epsom salts and juice, but I don't know if it will desolve in it to make it any better. The oil mixture, you would think is the worst. It's not. It was actually quite easy, UNTIL you stop and think about what you are drinking. I recommend not drinking it around anyone who can make faces at you. I could have hurt my husband! Again have the candy ready for after finishing.

It is recommended that you eat lots of apples or drink lots of apple juice the week before the flush. The malic acid (I think thats what it is) makes the gallstones softer, so they bend through their journey to the end. I don't care for apples, so I drink lots of juice! In fact, I am doing the flush again today (YEAY!), so I am actually watching what I eat. The morning of the flush, you can eat vegetables, fruit, soft cereal (oatmeal with no added sugar, just fruit), and bread (no added butter or toppings). It needs to be very basic, so that your liver and gallbladded build up alot of bile and can't waste it on anything. So I always start my day out with vegetables (I like them better than fruit, although apples are recommended) like corn, peas, green beans, etc. Then around noon, I eat a couple peices of toasted bread minus the butter. It just fools me into thinking that it is a meal. There is absolutely no eating after 2 pm, so make sure that you are full before this time. Once the flush begins, nerves have you ratted then the epsom salts make you not hungry the rest of the day. Then you just follow it the rest of the way through. It seems difficult but once you take your first dose of ES, it is quite easy and from there, you are on a timed routine. I didn't go to bed immediately after the Oil, instead I laid on my back on the couch and watched a movie. Then I went to bed.

Ok, as for working, this may get graffic. The ES took about an hour and a half to kick in. I went to the bathroom and had really bad runs. I came out for about 2 minutes, then had to go right back in. I ended up taking my next dose of ES and had to go like 5 more times. They are not kidding when they warn to pick a night when you have nothing planned. By the time I was done going, (you look in the toilet each time in hopes of seeing stones already), it looked as though I had peed in the toilet instead, becasue it was only the juice and ES coming out. After taking the Oil mixture, I went maybe two more times that night, then was fine when I went to bed, I guess because it comes out so quickly. The next morning, I took my ES mixture at 6, then went back to bed. I took my next one at 8 and within 10 minutes, I had to go. This is when it got interesting. I knew I had nothing in my system from the night before, but you can feel them come out. In no way does it hurt! It feels like normal runs to be honest. But after looking in the toilet bowel, there are tiny stones everywhere. It's really neat to know that something that wasn't supposed to be inside has come out. From then, I probably used the bathroom 5 more times (yes the butt starts hurting by now!), and each time had stones, but the last time, I could only find three. The stones look nothing like what you would imagine. They are soft looking and people say they are squishy. They look like they would be. There was also a lot of chaff, which is inside waiting to be turned into stones and this resembles "runs".

Gallstones can be formed by so many different things, eating disorders such as starving yourself, eating junk food, a slugish liver, medications. It just depends, and I read a scientific report that said that at least 80% of people have gallstones, even if they don't know it. It said that the majority of corpses that have autopsies done, have gallstones, even if they were unaware of it or they had no gallbladder. Interesting stuff right there. I've tried talking my family into doing the flush, just to see if they have them and they refuse until they have signs. :) Since I did my flush, I have had no back pain or pressure in my chest (it wasn't pain, just an achiness).

As for the attacks. I am not sure if these two were attacks because I had an eating disorder (was addicted to exlax for nearly 6 years) and it could have been due to that. But I have since had a slight attack of some kind and I have been exlax free for nearly 3 months. Anyways, the first attack I had was while driving my husbands Mustang on January 6th. It had me bending over in my seat, and I almost crashed the car. It lasted for about 5 minutes, then went away and I was perfectly fine. It was extremely painful. Like a menstrual cramp times twenty. That was the last day I ever took exlax, as I felt it was my bowels warning me to stop. My second attack came on February 5th (almost exactly a month later). I was in my kitchen and searching in a cabnet, when it hit. It was only somewhat bad - nowhere near as bad as the first. I hunched over grabbing my stomach for about 3 minutes and it was done. I just had a slight episode about two weeks ago, also. I felt the same thing coming on, so I started taking deep breaths and slightly bent over. It passed with not much pain. I figure that if I am starting to have attacks, surgery is not too far away, so I need to get them out now. I don't know for sure that these are gallstone related, but every now and then, when I move a certain way, or inhale, I can feel pressure under my right ribcage. I never could before, I knew I had them, so maybe it just brought it to my attention. I don't know.

I hope this helps. I read in a book that liver flushes are greatly recommended, as everything we eat, drink and breath filters through our liver. Toxins get stuck in there and thats why we end up with bad pains and things such as asthma, allergies, colds, flus, etc. If the liver works right, our immune system purks up. I have yet to see this for myself, but I know being back-pain free this past month has been great. :)

mojogal 03-24-2006 11:00 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Thank you so much for the info.

I have "discomfort" on my right side. Don't know if it's pain or pressure. My liver (or something) feels like it is pushing my ribs out. This is not constant, matter of fact I'm feeling good discomfort at all. Did you feel nauseous with your gall stones? I have nausea frequently (no throwing up).

Just talked to a friend of mine who works in a pharmacy. She has a friend, who is knowledgeable about meds and natural cures. She highly recommends a liver flush (store bought or home made).

Good luck on your next "flush". How often and how many times do you do it?

nobodytotalkto 03-24-2006 11:45 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Yes, I have the same thing. It's not a pain but it's just enough to let you know that there's something there. I think "discomfort" is the perfect word. And it doesn't seem like it's always there, like I said, it's only sometimes with how I move or breath. I especially notice the feeling after eating pizza and other greasy foods.

Unfortunately, I did have the nausia before my first flush. I had switched birth control pills in November and am now on a mini pill (no estrogen, so the pregnancy risk increases), so I had this dreadful feeling that I might be pregnant, especially because I have irregular periods now. But since my periods do come, I know I'm not. I have more of a "full feeling" now and sometimes I want to throw up after eating, but it just doesn't happen. But it's not the constant nausia feeling anymore.

I looked into the store bought type of flushes and they seem a lot easier. But everyone I have ever talked to about this has always done the recipe I did, or one very similar, so I'm not sure how good they are. I would be interested in hearing from someone who had results from one. It just seems a lot harder to me to do a daily cleanser, compared to devoting just 1 1/2 days to one. I wonder if you would see constant results from an over-time flush? Where the morning after your flush, it's all there to see at once(there was probably around 1,000 tiny stones my first time going the next morning). Hmmm....

I have decided to wait a month between each flush. Today marks exactly a month from my last one. I was going to do it every two weeks, but I felt this was too soon and wanted to give my body time to recooperate. The buildup of bile in the liver/gallbladder reacts violently when added to the oil later in the day. This violent reaction causes the gallbladder to push the gallstones out and into the small intestine (but you don't feel a thing!!!). Doctors say it is not possible to release gallstones yourself, but I beg to differ as any other flusher will. The stones are just too weird, they are definately coming from somewhere. Doctors just want the thousands of dollars that a gallbladder surgery will make them. Not to mention, if the liver really is responsible for the things that ail us, imagine the money the doctors lose if we can cure the problem ourselves with such a small step. But from what I have read others say, a flush should be done monthly until you pass very few or no stones. Then you can wait and do it every six months and if you still dont get many stones out, then you can do it yearly. It is recommended at least yearly, just to clear the liver of toxins. This is only my second flush and I can't wait until morning. It may sound really gross, but to look in the toilet bowel and see what you actually got out is really incredible. I just hope that I have equally good results this time, since I am sure that I still have lots to go.

As a warning on how eager doctors doctor called me up and told me that my liver was 100% perfect but that I had gallstones. That is all she told me before instantly telling me that she can schedule me an appointment to speak with a surgeon to schedule a gallbladder removal surgery. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I am only 25 and in no way did I think I could get gallstones (before finding out they are so common). I told her that I had to do some research on it before I talked with a surgeon. She wasn't pleased but let it go. After some thought, I realized I didn't know if I had a lot of gallstones, if they were large or small, or anything. So I called her back and asked if the results of the ultra sound gave any detail. She read through it and said "Just that you have multipal small stones. Are you ready to schedule an appointment to talk to the surgeon?" That was it. She keeps pushing the surgery on me, and I told her that I have had no pain from it (with the exception of what could have been attacks, but most people have them a lot more commonly than my three). It just didn't feel right that the surgery is all she cares about. I believe that herbs and home remedies can be just as good as a lot of doctor methods, and I would rather treat it myself than get surgery. But thats me. :)

mojogal 03-28-2006 01:20 PM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
NTTT--Hope all went well this weekend. Let us know how you are doing.

nobodytotalkto 03-30-2006 08:05 AM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Sorry, I meant to come back and share but I just don't come this forum enough. :)

Anyways, the flush went really good. I don't know if I accomplished as much as I thought I would but it was still very successful. This time, I took the ES really easily (alot easier than the first flush) on the first day. It seemed like a breeze, so I felt really positive about the whole thing. Boy was I wrong. The oil was nearly impossible for me to get down! Last time, the oil was the easiest part. I think the oil was warmer this time. I would be interested to know how it would be just barely chilled. I started passing stones four hours later (just before 2:30 am, and last time it didn't hit me until after 8). There were "at least" 100 there. I went twice within a half an hour, then went to bed and was fine until I got up to take my morning mixture of ES. I just couldn't drink it. It took me forever and then I couldn't drink the last little bit in the cup. I went back to bed and got back up just before 8. I had no problem drinking it then, so I don't know what was going on the time before. The ES seems like it tastes a tiny bit better if you use grapefruit juice in a bottle rather than fresh squeezed. I had the same results with both. I was hoping to get out a lot more or at least larger. Granted, I had four that were twice the size of the first ones I passed (which were the size of kidney beans). My first flush, all the stones were dark green, but this one had bright light green and the majority was light tan colored. And they were extremely soft looking like they would fall apart if you tried to pick them up.

I can hardly wait until my next flush but at the same time, I am not looking forward to the mixtures again. Maybe next time I'll add the honey to the mix. I don't think it could be any worse! But I have felt really really good this whole week and I have not felt the "pressure" under my rib at all. I may start feeling it again within the next month, but so far, so good. I definately wonder what the store bought remedy is like! I just may start researching them.

So how are you doing? Have you found out anything on what was causing your elevated enzymes?

mojogal 03-30-2006 05:45 PM

Re: liver enzymes elevated--Questions
Glad to hear everything went OK.

Have another blood test in a couple weeks to see where the enzyme levels are. Right now I am thinking it is gall stones. Everything is pointing in that direction (symptoms and possible causes). I still have some discomfort on my right side and am feeling nauseous. YUK.

I honestlly don't think my stomach could take the home made flush. I told my sister about it; she is going to try it before I do (if I do) and tell me honestly how it made her feel--if she gets a little queezy I'll get alot queezy. Her stomach isn't as sensitive as mine. She has no symptoms of gall stones but thinks the flush is a good thing anyway.

Thanks again for all your input!

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