anyone with "chronic lyme" have positve wb IGM, negative IGG?

sickandconfused

actually, I just got my bill back from Igenex and at the end was a complete explanation of both tests. They talked in depth about the IGM and IGG tests and said that although many people w/ Lyme make IGG antibodies, some only make IGM, and that IGM can be a sign of either recent infection, or in people that have been ill for a long time, most likely recurrent and persistent infection. I think I might have my answer. I told my dr the chances of me all of a sudden getting lyme disease is too strange since I've been sick for so long. She agreed with me there!

ciconner

Hi SickandConfused,

I'm right there with you - confused. Had joint pains, panic attacks, mood swings, delusional for many, many years. My joint pains went away for about a year and then I think I was reinfected and 2 out of 3 IGM's came up positive. The LLMD seems to think I was reinfected. Somewhere along the way I had parvo and some say the lyme can activate that. I don't understand. But the parvo was dead. It's all confusing to me. I almost think I may have gotten lyme way back in H.S. when I was running X-country. It was after that season that I was having irritable bowel syndrom problems. I never went to a doc. Then I had mono my freshman year in college (typical). The joint pains started early 30's. It's confusing. If I didn't have it since H.S., I strongly feel I had the lyme in my early 30's. I'm 44 now.

I remember picking at something in my scalp and had a lymph node surgically removed from my neck (early 30's). They sad I had an infection somewhere from the neck up. I don't think they tested it for lyme. I should try to get the medical report.

In Oct. 2004 the first symptom I had that made me schedule a doctor appt. was the swollen gland in my neck (same place as the one I had removed years earlier). I also broke out in scabs all over my scalp (early 30's) and right after I was diagnosed in Oct. 2004. The dog I had broke out with scabs all over when he had Rocky Mountain spotted fever. Even before the swollen gland in my neck in my early 30's, I had one in the groin area, which I have now. Back then the doc gave me an antibiotic which took care of that and said I had an infection somewhere from the waist down.

If spirochetes sprout I wonder how that would show up on a western blot test. I wonder if IGM's or IGG's come up positive.

lymegirl

SickandConfused

I too have a positive IgM and negative IgG. My tests were also done at Igenex. All other lyme tests I have had done (blood & spinal fluid) have all come back negative. I know I have had this a long time too. I was dx w/MS 6 yrs ago and have gotten progressively worse since, so I know it's been atleast that long & possibly longer.

My neuro thought test result was negative, something about IgG over rides IgM. Lyme Dr says it's a positive. I think Lyme Dr is right. I tried oral Cefzil and now am on IV Rocephrin.

Hope you are feeling better soon!

ciconner

I think your lyme doc is right, too. IgM coming back positive is positive. I never heard of one overriding the other. My son's IgG's all came back positive. But from what I've read, even those can come back negative as time passes. Timing is everything.

I think I've been sick a long time, too and was reinfected. I just can't see how my life style being pretty outdoorsy all my life and then only being bitten by a deer tick once in my life at the age of 43. As I said on another board, I just so happened to pull a deer tick off me and that's the first time I ever recall being bitten. And the tick is very tiny. I can't get over how small it is. I thought it was just another mole, but darker.

If I got sick again, I would've thought it was a relapse this time. It came off so easily that I think it wasn't on long and I am hoping it wasn't infected anyway, but when I get back the NJ, I'll send it to be tested.

dianneom

Not only have I been sick for years but also treated for years. Today I got the results from IGeneX . My IgG + but with less intensity then the one I had 2 years ago. IgM + when the one 2 years ago was equivocal. I never have CDC +. Also Babesia +.
I'm just as confused........
D

ncgirl88

I have read and heard that lyme can morph in its natural state and is even more prone to morphing to a slightly different version of itself not just physically but also in its DNA thus your body recognizes it constantly as a new infection - thus new IgM antibodies...

Sounds like it could be the state..

When you subject the lyme to antibiotics it is more apt to morph its DNA to protect itself from becoming erradicated...

cjFTWORTH

hope this helps...

IgM antibodies are the first antibodies to be produced in the body in response to an infection, and is produced in great quantity. IgM antibodies are large, up to six times larger than the IgG antibodies. IgM antibodies, when present in high numbers, represent a new active infection or an existing infection that has become reactivated. Over time, the number of IgM antibodies will decline as the active infection is resolved.

IgG antibodies are produced once an infection has been going on for a while, and may be present after the infection has been resolved. Generally speaking, the presence of IgG antibodies to an organism when accompanied by a negative IgM test for the same organism means that the person was exposed to that organism at one time and developed antibodies to it, but does not have a current active infection of that organism. When it comes to Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb), the organism responsible for Lyme disease, that is not necessarily the case.

To recap, depending on the numbers,

IgM is a sign of a current infection.
IgG is a sign of a current infection, or of a past exposure to or of a past infection by the organism.

lymegirl

Has anyone heard of the Stricker panel? My Dr tested me for this before I started antibiotics and I was very low on these 2 tests. I'm not real clear on what this is however I know it is called CD57 and from what I understand it's a marker Dr Stricker has used in tracking Lyme in patients. If patient is low on this marker (CD57) it is further evidence of Lyme.

I told my Dr the other day I haven't seen this (Stricker panel) come up in anything I've read so far (I'm just afew months into this) and she said she thinks it's valid etc. Today I was searching info when I looked at a site re notes on the speakers at the 2004 ***** conference and he was one of the speakers.

Anyone else w/info??

chocolatesprinkle

Hello lymegirl

My LLMD performed the Stricker Panel on me as well. It gives you an indication of how well the immune system is functioning. On my test results, it says HNK1 (CD57) Panel - I know NK stands for natural killers cells. The two indices (besides several different blood compositions, i.e., WBC, RBC, etc) listed are: % CS8-/CD57+ Lymphs, and Abs. CD8-CD57+ Lymphs. Very complicated, eh ? For these two indices, I had low numbers (i.e., 3 with normal range of 2-17; and 60 with normal range of 60-360). My LLMD said she's seen people at 0. I have read very little of it too and when my LLMD first mentioned it (last year), she said it was new. Buhner gives it mention in his book (Healing Lyme): "It examines specific immunologic markers to measure the effectiveness of treatment of chronic Lyme." After knowing my results, it makes sense to me. All of my symptoms speak to the fact that my immune system is depressed in fighting off the bacteria, yet it has not taken me to the depths. So, what I want to do is boost, support my immune system as best as I can, before I try the cat's claw again.

CS

6Blues

Hello friends.

I want to share my Stricker Panel results for HNK1 (CD57) Panel that was tested back in January 2005:
Row 1: % CD8-/CD57+ Lymphs: 2 (range 2 - 17)
Row 2: Abs.CD8-CD57+ Lymphs: 46 (range 60 - 360)

I'll try to remember to ask my LLMD to check these again. I'll also do some research on the web to educate myself as to what those numbers mean.

Thanks for mentioning this!!

Peace and health to all.

lymegirl

Hi all

Thanks for sharing that info on the Stricker panel everyone. It's good to know that others have heard of this & it gives me even more confidence in my LLMD that she knows the latest info.

My # are:

1st row %CD8-/CD57 1 (normal range 2-17)
2nd row abs,CD8-CD57+ 12 (" " 60-360)

I have to do some research on this as 2nd # is really low. Any other info
on this please let me know.

Thanks!