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ciconner 09-02-2005 04:47 PM

I want to cry-bulls eye
Today at the beach I took a look at the place inside my leg where I had the tick bite. If I didn't pull the tick, I wouldn't have even noticed it. The red is the size of a pencil eraser and it looks like a little white head in the center. But there is a ring around the red circle which is lighter than my natural skin color. It is at the exact place I pulled the tick on Monday. So it took 4 days for this to appear and I'm pretty sure I pulled the tick off within hours of it biting.

I'm out of town and waiting to get home and will call the LLMD. I still have the tick. Guess I have to take abx. again.

deejavu 09-02-2005 05:38 PM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Hi Ciconner,

I am so sorry that you had another tick bite, please send the tick to IgeneX asap. Yep, sounds like the Bull's Eye Rash, the faster you get on antibiotics the better off you will be.

Once again, my heart goes out to you as you don't need this.

Please keep us posted,

ciconner 09-03-2005 05:49 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
I'm not so upset today, especially when many are not feeling well. And I thinking of the people down south after Hurricane Katrina. I'm one of the one's doing ok, but have my moments.

I think it's true many don't get or notice the rash. I wouldn't have noticed it and a second one appeared two inches from the first one, so I think it bit me twice. The second one was a perfectly round pink circle only about 1/2 in diameter with a dot in the middle. The second one is gone this morning, but now it looks more like a little white head. If I didn't have the tick bite I would just think it was little zits (gross). I really don't get those much.

Now I'm wondering about the one I had on my inner lower arm and thought that was an unusual place for a white head to pop up. I'm mentioning this to just let you guys know what is happening since I had this bite.

The other thing happening as I type is that I have a drenching sweat pouring down me. I asked my husband if he was hot. He said yes. He's usually warmer than me. I told him I have sweat pouring down the front of my chest and belly and he said, "I'm not that hot, are you getting sick on me?" He remembers those sweats I had very well, the bed was drenched, sheets and blankets. We're heading back to NJ today and it's a holiday weekend, so I guess I have to get to a doctor on Tuesday.

ciconner 09-03-2005 05:50 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Oh yeah, and send the tick off to IgeneX.

Betterdaysforme 09-03-2005 07:50 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Dear ciconner,

Thanks for the commentary on the tick bite and how a lot of people wouldn't even notice it. Since I never saw one it is reassuring to me with my sometimes doubtful mind. I wonder if the tick that bit you had babs because of the drenching sweats. I can't remember if you have that book by S Buhner but if you have a rough weekend with the sweats his recommendations for Babs is Arteminsin capsules 100mg 3x daily for 30-40 days. Red root tincture 1/2 - 1 1/2 teaspoons up to 4x a day. For shaking and chills/sweats and fever he says drink boneset tea, 2 - 4 cups daily. I think the herbalist I am dealing with recommended something like the red tincture with no side effects that I mentioned in the Healing lyme protocol people thread. This is just in case you have a probem and can't see doctor. Maybe even just the tea would help. Hopefully you won't have any problems but it is always nice to be prepared. I will keep my fingers crossed for a pleasant weekend and no problems. Let us know how the doctor visit goes next wek.


ciconner 09-04-2005 12:41 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Thanks Maureen for the info.

I'm getting nervous. I feel like I'm waiting for a hurricane to hit and don't know what to expect. I'm comparing the two because I have enough warning to do something about it (and can and should). The bull's eye didn't even last for 24 hours and the white head looking things are now red little dots that are slightly raised. I haven't been sweating since yesterday morning. So now I have to go to the doctor and have no bull's eyes to show. I hope I don't have to wait to get sick (if I am reinfected) before they give me an antibiotic.

What if I take the cat's claw until I go to the doctor. That's supposed to work, isn't it?

Ok, check this out. I looked up EM rash to see how long it lasts and it says they expand. I took a closer look at my rashes (they don't really look like rashes) and now I can see how they expanded and they aren't perfectly round anymore. The center has a big clearing and then a thin line around the whole thing. Not something I wouldn've noticed.

chocolatesprinkle 09-04-2005 06:56 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Hi Ciconner:

I'm so sorry to hear about this new finding. I did have a bull's eye rash. The center was in my groin, in the hair line - it would be hard to notice the tick there. After reading Buhner's book, I'm sure it was a nymph based on the time of year I was bitten. I did have the mind to take a picture of it. I found the rash while in the shower - it was quite large, spreading into an oval of about 5-6 inches. For me, I think if I had not been able to see it, I certainly would have eventually 'found' it because it was also quite hot and itchy. The area in the oval outside of the center was red and raised as well. I don't remember how long it stayed around - I'd say about a week. This was what my bull's eye was like, but as you know, they can take manifest in many different ways.

BTW, I found my rash on the Thursday before 9/11. I had fatigue and joint pain, mostly in my hips and I felt this for about 3-4 days before the rash appeared. Being such an active person at the time, I knew something was wrong.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I was at a music event yesterday which included a field that had been recently mowed and this was all I could think about, getting bit again. I did use bug spray, and then I made sure I showered when I got home.


ciconner 09-05-2005 01:14 PM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Hi CS,

Thanks for the info, so I can compare. I have the familiar shooting pains in hips and shoulders, but it's not too bad. Fatigue. a little sweaty and chills. But I could just be sweaty and chilly from being sweaty.

There's really nothing left of those two little bull's eyes I had except one pink circle. Hardly noticeable. The thing is when I pulled the tick, it came out effortlessly and there wasn't even a mark of any kind until four days later when the little bull's eye appeared.

Nothing ever goes "text book" for me. I could give you a list of examples, but I'll just leave it at this.

I have a few days of doxy left, but don't want to take it because if I have bloodwork and a test comes up negative, then I'll have to fight that uphill battle to get meds. Of course I hope I am not reinfected, but I don't want to not get treated if I have it again. I do not want to go through this again.

How long do you wait to get tested after a bite? About 2 weeks?

chocolatesprinkle 09-05-2005 02:14 PM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Hi Ciconner: :wave:

I went to my GP right away - I knew nothing about Lyme back then. It was, here's the doxy (3 weeks), you'll be fine. I believe 'they' feel it's not worth it testing early on while you're under treatment and I forget why really. The antibodies haven't had time to build up? That was 4 years ago. I went to a LLMD after the 1st round of doxy 'cause I still wasn't feeling right, and she prescribed another 3 weeks to make it 6. She did test me then - and tests came back negative. Was it too early then as well? I don't know.

Okay, I just went to Buhner's book and it does have to do with having 'measurable antibodies'. Again, it's complicated and many factors to consider. Do you have his book?

Did you take pix of the bull's eye(s?). I had the 'real' thing to show my GP, and then the pictures to show the two LLMDs.


ciconner 09-07-2005 08:09 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
I didn't have the thing long enough to take a pix and I'm glad you are telling me all this, I was going to ask. I ordered the book, so it should be here any day.

Sorry I keep losing track of individual experiences with the disease. So when you were treated so soon, what happened? Did you respond well to the treatments and did you have a relapse? The last time I went through this, I am almost certain it took weeks, if not a month before I got sick (flu symptoms and high fever, sweats). I could be wrong.

chocolatesprinkle 09-07-2005 08:20 PM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Hi Ciconner

Let me see if I can pull a few brain cells together here, and check my notes (which weren't very good ones).

Fatigue, achiness, and big time hip hurt started Monday or Tuesday, classic bull's eye showed up on Thursday, to the doctor's on Friday, started doxy 100 mg bid. The hip hurt was striking (BTW, I was bit in the groin) - it hurt to sit, I had to come home from work and lay down. I was used to coming home from work and doing step aerobics, riding my bike, hiking, whatever. It felt like flu, but not flu. I knew something was oddly wrong, different. And here's the bizarre thing, eh? Fortunately I got the bull's eye rash; lucky me. The very next Tues was 9/11. I slept through it; that is, I got up at 10:45 and the whole world had changed while I was sleeping. That was a pretty intense time, and I don't exactly remember how I felt. I did write down that I had fatigue, clamminess, chills, towards late afternoon during the last week of abx (total of 6 weeks on all). I never got back to my old self. Never was able to resume my level of physical activity. That was one of my main complaints. That and brain fog and fatigue and you know, the laundry list. I've stumbled through life now, ever since, thinking it was some failure of mine that I couldn't get back to where I was previously. Every day was a struggle to get through work and the minimal amount of stuff to make life function on a daily basis. Until last year, I knew I was in trouble and needed help. Therapy and maybe 4-5 months later, much to the urging of my 'coach' and to my chagrin, started antidepr Lexapro. And miracle of all miracles, jumpstarted my brain. My brain is functioning better. Therapy has also done some backlogged cleaning out of the cobwebs. I recommend it BTW. And now, it's time to work on the physical stuff. There was always that thought, that maybe this is related to depression. But now, the depression is better, I know the bodily stuff is not associated with it, 'cause its still there. So, I'm grateful for return of a sharper mind (better ability to think I would say, process things, the brain fog and memory failure are still present but it waxes and wanes). The brain fog has been so bad - it keeps you isolated. You're afraid to open your mouth. You can barely understand what anyone is saying. I can write well, and read better. That's different now too. I have to say before the antidepr, I couldn't put 2 brain cells together to even think about, figure out what was going on with me. Now, I'm on a mission.

Some have called it post-treatment Lyme, whatever that really means. I just don't think I ever got rid of the drat bug. And after reading Buhner's book, I can see how that can happen. That helps me understand.

Also, I was thinking about your rash, that it went away rather fast. Maybe your body handled it pronto. Wouldn't that be great?

Okay, hope this was helpful. If there's anything more you want to know, just ask!


ciconner 09-08-2005 03:47 PM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye

I'm thinking my body might have handled it quickly, too. I really don't have any symptoms. Physically I'm fine.

I think I've been infected more than once in my life and when I was diagnosed Oct. 2004 my first symptom was crying over the news (Sept). I would go out of my way to sit and watch the news just so I could cry over it. And movies could do the same. My mind was frazzled in school when the kids got a little loud. I think I suffer more mentally first then physically. There's a pattern I've noticed. Fatigue of course also.

The lymph node in my neck is what clued me in on this in 2004. I was explaining on another thread how I went through the crying over the Albanians being run out of their homes in 1999 and today I remembered that a gland in my neck got swollen (Oct. 1998), I called the doctor and he told me to go to the emergency room (it was a weekend). I also thought I was bleeding to death with a menstrual cycle so I went, to the ER. They just checked to make sure it wasn't a miscarriage. I didn't get the sweating, achy joints, headache and high fever until New Years and when I look back to Oct. 2004, that seems to have been the pattern.

This disease is like an obsession. You try to figure out when and how you got it and if you've had it before by mirroring symptoms you've had before.

I made a doc appt. for Monday and will just have the Western blot done and go from there. I still have the tick and want to send it in to IgeneX, also. A good sign is that I'm not obsessing over the news with the Katrina disaster. I weep a little when I see a child crying or the babies. But it's not anything I went through with the Russian kids held hostage at the school Sept. 2004 and the Albanians in 1999. I even cried when I took the kids to meet their teacher for first grade before school started last year. That's when I knew something was wrong. That was the very first thing and knew something was wrong. It was another month before I had physical symptoms.

I also read that lyme can "resolve itself." I had shoulder and hip pains and all these behavioral disorders that I didn't look into and then the joint pains went away after I had them for many years. Then I was infected (or reinfected) and they came back, but I'm doing pretty well for now.

These days I just happen to want to crawl in a hole and not want to be around people because I can't trust my behavior. I don't even want to work anymore because I always start some kind of "trouble." Regardless of whether I'm right or not, it's just a waste of my energy and I always lose in the end. I just wish I knew if this is lyme related.

In your case the fact that you were treated soon after you discovered the rash didn't hold true that you would be "cured." You answered my question. Thanks for explaining what you went through.

chocolatesprinkle 09-09-2005 10:45 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Hi Ciconner

I'm thinking my body might have handled it quickly, too. I really don't have any symptoms. Physically I'm fine.

[COLOR=Indigo]Good news![/COLOR]

[COLOR=Navy]I can relate much to the bouts of weepiness. I knew I needed help but didn't know how to go about it until a crisis hit. Connections bring you places (angels show up), brought me to my therapist who insisted on antidepr although I resisted for about 4-5 months. The antidepr has helped in many ways. I don't remember his name, but I know someone in the field has written about how these types of drugs can help Lyme patients, and antidepr even have antibiotic properties. [/COLOR]

I think I've been infected more than once in my life . . .

[COLOR=Navy]I've wondered about that myself, seeing as how beginning with 1986, I put myself out there in the woods and fields unprotected for many years. We lived next to a 250 acre farm and we used to walk all over that property many times in tall grasses, noting where the deer had spent the night. I also remember bouts of unexplained fatigue. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=Navy]I think you also have to look back in life, and see what you were exposed to. Both my parents smoked; my mother even during pregnancy. I had chronic bronchitis growing up (little wonder!) and was treated with abx routinely. I've read how receiving too many courses of abx in your life can actually affect your health adversely, and thus, I am pretty reluctant to go on them again. [/COLOR]

The lymph node in my neck is what clued me in on this in 2004.

[COLOR=Navy]I've got a swollen lymph node under my armpit now. Got me feeling jumpy. [/COLOR]

This disease is like an obsession.

[COLOR=Navy]And how! It's eating up a lot of my time and energy now which I seem to have more of (and thank goodness for that). But I'm on a mission. There's a way that's individual for me, a puzzle, and it's up to me to figure it out.[/COLOR]

I made a doc appt. for Monday and will just have the Western blot done and go from there.

[COLOR=Navy]Best of luck with that! Keep us posted. [/COLOR]

I also read that lyme can "resolve itself."

[COLOR=Navy]Me too. And I think there's a lot of credence to that, given that your immune system is working well, and your stress levels are low. And I keep reading that our body was designed to work in health.[/COLOR]

These days I just happen to want to crawl in a hole and not want to be around people because I can't trust my behavior. I don't even want to work anymore because I always start some kind of "trouble." Regardless of whether I'm right or not, it's just a waste of my energy and I always lose in the end. I just wish I knew if this is lyme related.

[COLOR=Navy]That is the hard part. I do work but I sure don't want to. I am lucky in that I can work from home 2-3 days/week. But it gets harder and harder. I've had more outbursts of anger this year than in my whole life. As far as my social activities, I plan my life around them. Bank up energy ahead of time, plenty of sleep, reduce the stress. People usually only see me at my best. I have moments of sharpness, and others times I am sitting in a fog, trying to pretend I know what everyone is saying, and coming up with 1 or 2 word answers that 'may' work. And I never really know if they do. People are much too polite! ! ! I've been meaning to ask family if they can tell whether I'm with it or not. [/COLOR]


ciconner 09-09-2005 11:12 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
We have a lot in common, CS. I get in a fog in social situations. I'm in my own little world. I'll ask someone a quesition and then not even "hear" the response. A good friend of mine can see I'm slipping mentally and my husband mentioned to her that I'm slipping into a depression (I was fine a few weeks ago). So, I'm going out with the girls tomorrow night. Not even looking forward to it, but I have a feeling they will have me laughing-they're just the type.

The thing with the lymph nodes is I get this mental picture it being an infection packed up like toxic waste and if it leaks it'll cause a lot of damage. I still have one in my groin area, which was almost gone and now seems like it's getting bigger.

chocolatesprinkle 09-10-2005 07:58 AM

Re: I want to cry-bulls eye
Yes, for me, there's always a lot of stress re going out. Will I be okay? Will I have enough energy to keep up? Can I leave if I need to? When I crash, I've got to get home. But on the bright side, I look forward to fun times, being with friends, and laughing. Being in the moment. I probably treasure and appreciate those times more than most.

I picture the lymph node packed with toxic waste too. Mammogram showed benign cysts with calcifications so I have to watch that. I know you're more vulnerable to cancer when your immune system is depressed. Ever more the reason to get better. Got to focus in on the detox plan GGB has talked about, even if I just get in the habit of the baths.

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