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Smyle 03-09-2006 03:28 PM

To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi Guys:

I just got my Borrelogen and Neuro-antitiox II CNS/PNS. Has anyone ever had a bad reaction to these? I know there are people on here unhappy with drug companies etc., but I do take some comfort in the fact that drugs have been tested on thousands of people and yes I know there still can be problems however drugs are kept under the watchful eye of the FDA and if there are problems then they are pulled off the market which has happened numerous times recently. But...nutritional supplements are not monitored and you hear these stories about women who were drinking herbal "diet teas" etc., who had allergic reactions, heartattacks etc. I know I am being a worry wart, but I am looking for honest feedback. I just want so desperately to get better. Things have been very bad for me lately and all my other tests came back negative (csf-which I expected to come back negative and my urine from Igenex was negative also-that one has me troubled. Is this really lyme?) Now I am having joint pain which had not been a big problem for me. There are times when I can hardly move my left hip. I am having terrible night sweats now-every night, pounding heart, bad headaches, twitching, shortness of breath, pins and needles, stammering speech again. It has just been all bad. I know it sounds like classic Babesia-which I have been tested for twice-both negative. I am hoping Dr. Jernigans products will help. Please give any feedback that anyone has.


P.S. They told me I could take these with the Ceftin. Has anyone done this?

earle 03-09-2006 03:57 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
franco, i too, am concerned about taking his products. i'm allergic to so much, doxy and tetra, demoral, flagyl, codeine, sulphur and the list goes on.

i can't even take some supplements.

i've been getting progressively worse now, too. major joint pain, foot pain, head pain, heck, you name it.......

when will it end???

deejavu 03-09-2006 04:10 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi Frango and Earle,

I understand your concern as I am also highly sensitive to most medications. Even pain killers have given me bad side effects so I avoid them at all costs not to mention other medications.

I started with the Borrelogen and never had any reactions to it or I would have stopped taking it, believe me!

Then I added the Microbojen and later on the Pake Spike Lobelia which is now called Neuro-Antitox II CNS/PNS Formula and I am doing great on these products.

If anyone was going to have an allergic reaction, it would be me.

I believe the Borrelogen has been around at least 2 years or more and so many people are using it. If there was a problem, I think I would have heard about it.

Dr. J. is very thorough with his "botanicals" and won't give them to people unless he is 1000% sure it will not only work but is also safe.

Remember, he not only treats patients in the U.S., but from all over the world and he is well known in Europe.

Frango, I don't think it's safe to take the Borrelogen with the Ceftin because the Borrelogen acts like an Antibiotic by itself. From what I have read, one does "not" mix conventional antibiotics with either Borrelogen or Microbojen.

Also, it does sound like you have Babesiosis symptoms, even if you tested negative perhaps your body wasn't making the antibodies at that time.

Dr. J's other products are fine to take with conventional antibiotics.

Earle, I honestly don't know what to tell you except that Dr. J's products are all natural.

I suggest reading Dr. Jernigan's book before starting any protocol as that's what I did to understand how each product works besides his other protocols such as the detox baths, diet, etc.

I hope that helps,
Denise :)

sleeperwoken 03-09-2006 06:52 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
I take borrelogen and microbojen and have not had a problem with either one. I also take antibiotics with them. Dr. J says in his book on page 24 that you can take antibiotics with these products, although he says he hopes that people would find that antibiotics are unnecessary.

Regarding borrelogen and microbojen, Dr. J says on page 67 "They are not an antibiotic. They provide the body with the specific information frequencies needed to overcome and control microbes."

He says on page 391, that the way borrelogen works is that it "stimulates the purging of Bb antigens from the body." The antigens cause the symptoms, so you feel better when they get out of your body, but it does not act as an antibiotic to kill the lyme, but rather to remove the antigens.

deejavu 03-10-2006 06:59 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi all,

Sleeper, you are correct about the words in the book.

When I first started the Borrelogen (by the way, that has been clinically tested for over 6 years from the date of the book), I talked to one of Dr. J's staff and she told me not to take antibiotics when using the Borrelogen (I still had Doxy tablets).

I think her reasoning was to clear the body first of all medicines to see what would work so I could identify if the Borrelogen was helping me, and it did.

I started out very simple, one product at a time to see what helped and what didn't. Thank goodness every product I added helped!

Frango, if I were in your shoes and started the Borrelogen with the Antibiotics, how would you identify what was working for you? That's the part that confuses me. I would be playing the "guessing game" of "hmmmm, maybe the antibiotics are finally working or is it the Borrelogen?"

It is also important to detox before starting the borrelogen and use the Neuro-Antitox Formula as well as other methods to rid your body of toxins.


sleeperwoken 03-10-2006 07:08 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Deejavu, I am so jealous of you. I have tried so many times to get off these antibiotics and I backslide every time. I have put myself through all the detox things Dr. J talks about including the fasting and the liver/gallbladder flush. Both were so hard to do, but I had high hopes every time I did a detox program. I want to be able to just take his stuff only because I love the idea of being free of chemicals. I could just cry every time I get my hopes up and try to stop my zithromax I get sicker and I go back on it.

I think the borrelogen is an amazing product. I feel so good for a while after I take it, but it doesn't last. It's almost as if I have to take it every hour if I want to feel good perpetually. Dr. J is very smart though, and I believe him when he says that it takes a long time for the body to get back what lyme takes away.

I have become discouraged lately.

deejavu 03-10-2006 07:21 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi Sleeper,

I feel really bad for you as I understand so much about not wanting to take antibiotics and be free of them.

My only suggestion is to stop the antibiotics slowly and take high doses of the Neuro-antitox II CNS/PNS formula, do the detox baths, 3 times a day if you have to and just stick with it.

Another idea is to maybe have a phone consult with Dr. Jernigan or his partner Dr. Samatha and tell them your situation.

I have heard that stopping antibiotics can cause such havoc on the body for several reasons which you probably understand.

I kind of compare it to when I decided to stop drinking alcohol and had to detox from that, my body and mind was a total wreck. My pulse and heart was speeding, my brain was mush, I couldn't stop shaking, etc.

I know it's not the same thing, but I remember going through such a rough time when I detoxed from the booze. Those memories are burned in my mind, probably one of the reasons I am still sober after 24 years.

Hope that helps,

Smyle 03-10-2006 07:55 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi Guys:

Thanks for all your input. Do you guys think I should start with just the neuro-antitox or should I do both the Borrelogen and the neuro-antitox? I do have Dr J's book, but I am wondering what others have tried. I agree with what you said Denise about not doing too many things differently all at once. Last night was a very bad night for me. I woke up with the tremors in my arms and bad anxiety. I hardly slept at all and I know it was not a deep sleep when I did get some. Now this morning I have a horrible headache. I feel like ever since I stopped the ceftin for the LP I have gone backwards.


wackowoman 03-10-2006 11:03 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
It is interesting to me that Denise talks about detoxing from alcohol. I know when people go off caffenine they have to detox. So I wonder about the drugs.... however I don't have an answer to that. would be great if you could talk to a Dr. at Dr. J's clinic.

But, to answer your quesiton, I too react to almost any drug you put me on. (why I choose no abx). I am on several drugs right now for my brain, but I still react to them (naseau, bloating, gas, constipation, vomiting, etc.) which is why I am flying back to Kansas, hoping to get off the drugs and get my brain fixed. will be leaving Sunday, so if you have any more questions I can help with, let my know by Sat.

2nd, I detoxed for 2 weeks before I started the microbrojen and borregon. But that was unusual, many people in his office start it within a few days. So, you can decide here, but if you are worried, start with the detox stuff first, (could also do sauna, his foot baths, skin brushing, etc. ) then add the other.

you said, P.S. They told me I could take these with the Ceftin. Has anyone done this?

No I haven't done this, but if his book and his office say this, I would believe it. But like Denise says, you might want to start out slowly, to see what is happening, and later add the drug in. Remember, it took me four weeks before I began to feel better, and I was taking so many doseages of all of his stuff. Micro & Borr 5x a day, Pale Spike and Silphtrin 8X a day.

So while I was sick, it wasn't from the remedies, it was my body dying. So you do have to give yourself some time.

Hope I answered your questions, I understand your fear.


deejavu 03-10-2006 12:34 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi all,

Jeanne, I remember when you first visited Dr. J in Kansas and your liver shut down from you being so sick. I am praying that this visit is going to fix your brain problems so you won't have to take the drugs anymore. Hope to talk to you again tomorrow so I can wish you a "healthy trip"!

Frango, it sounds to me like you want to be free of the Ceftin which I think is a good idea. I was reading an article about the Orca Whale (now don't laugh at me!) okay?

"Basically, this article stated that these whales were getting sick and dying. The marine biologists discovered this was inadvertently caused by a decrease in the salmon population due to overfishing -- but NOT directly because they were not eating enough and starving to death.

It was found that the salmon had toxic levels of pesticides from run off into the streams that they absorbed while migrating up and down river for the mating season.

Apparently the Orcas were "fine" when they ate the salmon as the toxins were stored in the fat. However, when the Orcas were subject to a drop in their food source and began to burn their fat stores, the toxins leached into their systems and slowly poisoned them resulting in death of the younger calves and geriatric adults as well. The toxicity levels were confirmed in carcasses and specimen.

This may happen with us as well. Although, most may argue that the human body is very tough -- and it is. But repeated exposure to toxins, pesticides, antibiotics, the environment and addictive substances can take its toll on the body resulting in suppressed immune systems, unexplained aches, common afflictions such as gout, asthma, gastrointestinal problems and more.

Additionally antibiotics can destroy the "good" intestinal flora and we sometimes need to replenish this for a healthy digestive track. Some eat yogurt which contains live enzymes and bacteria and some take supplements which contain dormant, yet live bacteria."

Anyway, I think the reason you are feeling bad now is because the toxins from the antibiotics are stored in the fat portions of your body so in a way, you are being poisoned right now.

I personally think you should detox right now as much as possible and do take the Neuro-Antitox II CNS/PNS formula to help rid your body of toxins. If you can stick it out, do it. You may want to read about detoxing from antibiotics as there is much information out there. I believe that the detox baths help, drinking lots of filtered water, eating lots of green veggies, etc.

Then in about 3 or 4 days from now, start on the Borrelogen.

I am not comparing you to the whales, just the process. :rolleyes:

Let me know what you think and I hope you feel better,

Smyle 03-10-2006 01:01 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi Guys:

Thanks for all your replys.

Jeanne: I am praying for you and I hope everything goes well at your visit next week. Please let us know as soon as you can post.

Denise: I love the comparison to the whales for a couple of reasons. First of all my husband is an environmental consultant and he is very concerned about water polution and what that does to our eco-system. That is his area of expertise. But, secondly- I had lost a bunch of weight (on purpose) before I got sick and who knows -maybe that is partially what has contributed to my illness.

I am going to start with the neruo-antitiox, but I am going to detox first. I am feeling soooo sick today that I would hate to start anything now since I wouldn't know if that was what was making me feel bad or if it was a herx. That is pretty much the dilemma I am in today anyways. I feel so bad, I am nauseated to the point of throwing up, very dizzy, my vision is really off today with a lot more floaters and my temperature is 95.7. All this along with the symptoms that I have that really seem like Babesia and I cycle through periods of having symtpoms that seem to be like Bartonella (sore feet in the morning, and the CNS stuff) I don't know if I am getting worse or if I am herxing. I am reduced today to tears which I haven't done since the beginning of this when I thought I was going to die. I am hoping that this Dr. that I am going to see on Thursday is lyme literate or I am really going to break down I can't take it anymore and I feel like I am missing out on my kids life. They are only little for such a short period and here I am spending it inside like a recluse. We were going to take them out to do some fun stuff today, but I can't do it so we are going to shoot for tomorrow. I hope I can pull it together by then.


deejavu 03-10-2006 01:18 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi Frango,

I'm glad you didn't take offense to the whale story. I'm so sorry you are feeling so bad. I really think it's because you are "detoxing" from the Antibiotics and I hope they get out of your system as soon as possible.

I think you made a wise decision to keep it simple. Are you able to do the detox baths? The water should not be too hot, just warm. I think Takemylife said the water should be 98 degrees?

If you are able to do the baths, that will help pull those toxins out of your body. I am going to start adding the baking soda. I have been reading so much about detox baths and how one can do different "varieties" of them.

There is also the foot baths with the mustard and cayenne pepper that helps too.

I understand about wanting to do things with your kids, please put positive thoughts in your mind that you will be doing lots of great things with them! It's just a matter of time now, okay?

I think it's good to cry as I have cried so many times not only at home, but on this site as well. Good to let it all out!

Know that I am thinking of you,

6Blues 03-10-2006 06:03 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users

I only take supplements that my LLMD recommends.

I'm sorry to hear you're down and out today. I have so much I want to say to you but I feel awful today too. What a bunch of bananas we all are! :)

Hang in there. It may seem like it will never end. I still get discouraged and tired of this battle.

I see the sunshine, feel the warm spring air and hear the birds and I get really really ****** off. I want to go out and rake and paint and so forth but I can't and that stinks!

There's a show on History channel tonight about an ancient woman warrior queen. I'm gonna watch. It'll either inspire me or depress me. :)

Good luck with Dr. J's stuff and I wish you a great, effective relationship with the LLMD.

Peace and health to you.

6Blues 03-10-2006 06:08 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users

Sorry to hear you feel discouraged. It takes super-human patience to deal with this disease. Its 1 step up, 2 steps back, half a step up, half a step back, 3 steps up, 2 steps back. We have to live for years with uncertainty as to when we will recover.

We're in the battle with you. Hang in there.

sleeperwoken 03-10-2006 06:55 PM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
6blues, thanks so much, I appreciate your words of support and encouragement, I really needed that. Thank you. I'm sorry you're not feeling so great either. I hope you have a good day very soon.

Denise, that whale stuff is extremely interesting. It makes so much sense too. I used to be in the pesticide business, I'm glad I got out of it.

Frango, good luck with the new products, I think you will be impressed with them and hope you get good results. Sorry you're feeling so crappy, I think if Laurie were here she would tell you to drink a whole lot of water. I'm going to drink water right now, I need some too.

janetclarkson 03-11-2006 05:25 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
I agree that Denise's tale of the whales gives a lot of food for thought. It is all very logical when you think about it.

The only trouble is that I am now worrying about the whales as well as everyone else. My one remaining ambition (once I am well again) is to go on one of those cruises where you see the whales.

I hope they will still be there.


Roman77 03-11-2006 09:28 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
frango ~ i am on dr j's pale spike lobelia and also the new liquid verison of his nero-anti tox formula. i am unecided as to what is happening as of yet. i have been having a rough few weeks, but so many other things are going on that i can't be sure that it's not a reaction to those other stressors. but i have told myself i will continue on with them until i talk to dr c next week and see what he thinks about them and my meds. if i find out anything i will elt you know. i hope that you will see good tings soon from your new dr j treatements.

jeanne ~ have a safe trip and i pray you have a good visit with the doc. hopefully they can help resolve your med issues. i know that that has to be terribly hard on you. let us know when you get back home. :angel:

sleeper ~ so sorry to hear you're down. we all go there and i know you have been fighting this for a long time. will keep you in my prayers that you'll see a renewed step forward and an emotional lift to get you through this time. :angel:


wackowoman 03-11-2006 10:30 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Thanks for all your good wishes.

Denise, Wow, interesting about the whales!! While I wasn't on abx, that is what my body was doing those first few weeks in Kansas, extreme detox from the ammonia. Thanks for your gift of friendship.

Frango, do remember it does take awhile to detox, whether it is from abx, or other med's, or ammonia. So sorry you are not feeling good - I felt terrible those first few weeks on Dr. J's stuff. But I felt terrible when I arrived too!! I wasn't herxing, but my body was miserable trying to detox. Never fun. When I went off Ambien I went thru if Lyme wasn't enough :") Shakes, headaches, seizures. My girlfriend, who deals with patients with alcohol detox, said that was what I was going thru, so while maybe you are herxing, maybe it is drug withdrawal. Whichever, I am sorry you are going thru this. Hang on, it will get better! Know that even in Kansas, I will be thinking about you.

I was hoping you would continue to feel better and better - darn. Hate those back and forths. I always said that when I started having more good days than bad days I would know that I had turned the corner. That is where I am, and let me tell you, it is much easier to be positive now. I struggled with being positive when I was so sick. But I was being honest, and that is also important. I think the best we can do on the bad days is be honest, and try and find one little thing to be greatful for (although there were some days I couldn't even find one thing). But I believe God understood that too. My heart is with you.

Thanks for thinking about me in the midst of your hard days. This board is so supportive. I will try and check the board by end of next week if possible to check on you and Marsha's Dr. appt.'s. You are in such a hard place and you are so brave. I do so admire that in you.

I know how hard you are trying, something just has to kick in soon! As always, I am thinking of you.

I was so touched by your post (it might have been on this thread but I can't remember - oh well.) But I read it to Dork, about how we all have to make our choices from our heart. You pour your heart into this board and you are a treasure.

You too must have a giving spirit to be worrying about whales in this place you are in. I'm glad you are on this board, you add so much.

WE MISS YOU!!! Hope you are up to feeling good soon, we NEED your sense of looking at the bright side of things even when we are down. Know you can't do that every day, but when you can you bless us.

And for anyone I've missed, PLEASE understand it is not intentional, just my brain being a little wacky (pun intended!!)

Will be thinking of you all.


deejavu 03-11-2006 11:25 AM

Re: To Deejavu, Wackowoman and Jernigan users
Hi all,

Jeanne ~ Wishing you a wonderful trip with Dr. David. I will be praying for you that you come back healthier!

Frango ~ Hope you are feeling better today, let us know, okay? Unless I missed it on a different post. That's interesting that your husband is an environmental consultant. I am also concerned about the environment, water pollution, and of course, global warming.

Sleeper ~ I'm glad you got out of the pesticide business too! I am in the routine of drinking lots of filtered water (have to slow down at night or I wake up because I have to frequent the toilet!) Hope you are feeling better today.

Mickie ~ How was the show on the ancient warrior queen? I think a show like that would put me to sleep! I like City Confidential where Paul Winfield narrates the story. But then again, I am a glutton for any murder/mystery stories. I always try to figure out who dun it. Wish they would bring back Columbo, now that was good!

Janet ~ I like watching whale stories on TV, but one day I would like to go whale watching, I'm sure there are plenty of whales left. Very intelligent mammals.

To everyone else: wishing you a good day! If you're not feeling good, force yourself to smile for 30 seconds and see what happens :)


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