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    Old 10-22-2006, 05:59 PM   #1
    kayda
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    Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi everyone,

    Hi sure would appreciate any help you can give to help me better understand my test results. The Western Blot IGG was positive & the IGM was Indeterminate. But, I don't really understand what exactly the individual bands mean.
    Do I really have Lyme? Part of the confusion is why my LLMD dr. hasn't treated me yet. These results are from 1.5 years ago and I haven't been treated yet. Is it possible the LLMD doesn't really think I have Lyme? (If he did, wouldn't he treat me--he says my allergies to pain meds make him think I will get an allergy to the antibiotics and then I will have to stop treatment and be worse off than before.) Should I seek out another LLMD????

    Below I typed out the test results from my Western Blot (Igenex). Is the IGG a current infection? Is the IGM a past infection? Anything else I should know?

    (The test says IND=Indeterminate; 1+ to 4+ is a positive with 4+being the strongest positive. If two or more doube starred bands are positive, the test is positive for Lyme. )

    Western Blot IGG Positive
    18 kDa +
    22 kDa -
    **23-25 kDa -
    28 kDa -
    30 kDa ++
    **31 kDa IND
    **34 kDa IND
    37 kDa -
    **39 kDa ++
    **41 kDa++
    45 kDa IND
    58 kDa +
    66 kDa IND
    73 kDa -
    83 kDa -
    **93 kDa IND

    Western Blot IgM Indeterminate
    18 kDa ++
    22 kDa -
    **23-25 kDa -
    28 kDa ++
    30 kDa IND
    **31 kDa++
    **34 kDa -
    37 kDa -
    **30 kDa -
    **41 kDa IND
    45 kDa -
    58 kDa IND
    66 kDa +
    73 kDa -
    83 kDa -
    93 kDa IND

    Also, the Epstein Barr Virus IGG was very, very high with 6.28 (positive is 1.10 or greater)

    Mycoplasma Pneumoniae Ab IGG was very high with 3.20 (positive is 1.10 or greater)

    Cytomegalovirus IGG is high with 1.58 (positive is 1.10 or higher)

    Thanks for your help!!!
    Kayda

     
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    Old 10-22-2006, 06:45 PM   #2
    Pearlscale
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    I would suggest looking into another LLMD. Just because one says he is, don't mean he is. If you determine not to go orals then maybe look into the alternatives. Look on the Lyme disease information thread, it will answer alot of your questions.

    How do you feel. What are your symptoms now.

    Lyme doesn't go away. Were you treated at all. If you had it, you still do.

    Dealing with alot of brain fog now, but I will help you any way I can. This board is full of caring Lymies with alot of wisdom. More than most Drs. We're all here to help any way we can.

    Prayers....Marsha

    Last edited by Pearlscale; 10-22-2006 at 06:47 PM.

     
    Old 10-22-2006, 07:18 PM   #3
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi kayda. Below is the Western Blot band description:

    9 cross-reactive for Borrellia
    12 specific for Bb
    18 unknown
    20 cross-reactive for Borrellia
    21 unknown
    22 specific for Bb, probably really the 23/25 band
    23-25 outer surface protein C (OspC), specific for Bb
    28 unknown
    30 unknown; probably an outer surface protein; common in European and
    one California strain
    31 outer surface protein A (OspA), specific for Bb
    34 outer surface protein B (OspB); specific for Bb
    35 specific for Bb
    37 specific for Bb
    38 cross-reactive for Bb
    39 is a major protein of Bb flagellin; specific for Bb
    41 flagellin protein of all spirochetes; this is usually the first to appear after a Bb infection and is specific for all Borrellia
    45 cross-reactive for all Borellia (sometimes people with Lyme who have
    this band positive also have the co-infection Ehrlichiosis)
    50 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
    55 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
    57 cross-reactive for all Borrellia
    58 unknown but may be a heat-shock Bb protein
    60 cross reactive for all Borrellia
    66 cross-reactive for all Borrelia, common in all bacteria
    83 specific antigen for the Lyme bacterium, probably a cytoplasmic membrane
    93 unknown, probably the same protein in band 83, just migrates differently in some patients

    The IgM tests for a more resent infection, the IgG a longer standing one. Band 41 is often the first to show and yours is positive. Bands 31, 34, and 39 are Lyme specific and yours are IND or positive. These results are significant.

    You have had this for a year and a half and the doctor will not treat you? Why? Have you been tested for all the co-infections? Did you know that Mycoplasma is one of the co-infections?

    You need to see a knowledgeable doctor. If you need a recommendation, let us know.

    Last edited by ticker; 10-22-2006 at 07:18 PM.

     
    Old 10-22-2006, 08:51 PM   #4
    kayda
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Thank you so much for taking the time to look at my test results and answer my questions. I know you are ill and it takes a lot of energy to answer questions & type responses on the board.

    I did not know that the Mycoplasma Infection was a co-infection of Lyme. How is that treated?
    I have never received any antibiotics for Lyme. I asked the LLMD if I could start Salt/C protocol. He said,"No." No explanation was given.

    I reviewed my notes. I see that I have a positive viral load. I'm not sure how that to treat that.

    Some other tests results:
    HME - Negative.
    Babesia - Neg.
    Bartonella - Neg.
    CatScratch - Neg
    HGE - Neg (Not sure what HGE is.)
    CD-57 was 11 (told that is very good)
    B Cells were 10 (normal is 6-29) (Told B Cells make anti-bodies)

    I would like any recommendations to some LLMD's (WI, IA, MN, IL, MI or somewhere close to those states)

    I also have high out of range test results for Candida (4x the normal for amount for intestinal yeast). I started treating and have been treating for Candida for about 20 years, now (diet, Anti-fungals, Herbals). Now I am told the Lyme suppresses the immune system and allows yeast to proliferate.

    As far as symptoms. There are so many. We used to vacation in a heavily populated deer tick area. I had a large (wood or dog tick) on my temple. I wasn't worried at the time because I was told they don't carry the Lyme disease. Guess that's changed somewhat.

    I have brain fog.
    Relentless fatigue, exhaustion.
    Severe muscle pain. At one point I was immobile.
    Brain lesion.
    Numerous allergies to foods, chemicals, molds, ethanol, phenol, formaldehyde, stores that sell pesticides, clothing, construction materials, flowers, arts & crafts, and many other things I can't think of at the moment.
    Allergies to virtually all pain medications
    Heart problems
    Eye problems (leaking retina, infections, floaters, see tree/branch-like structures without leaves)
    Loss of hearing in one ear
    sinus infections: numerous
    Irritable Bowel Syndrome
    Depression
    Sometimes right arm/hand doesn't work (extreme weakness). (Physical therapy for over a year)
    Extreme Weakness in right leg (In Physical Therapy for over a year)
    Skeletal/structural problems
    Difficulty thinking, planning,
    Unable to drive for weeks at a time
    Complicated Migraines
    High kidney Creatinine levels
    Severe chest pain & spasms of ribcage
    fluid on lung
    Nightmares
    Candida infections/dysbiosis
    Insomnia

    I'm sure there are other symptoms, but these are the ones I can think of at the moment.
    Oh, I had one dr. tell me Lyme burns itself out s what? I don't think someone would say that about cancer or other diseases ometimes. Is that crazy or what.
    Thanks everyone for your help. I've just got to get some treatment.
    Kayda

     
    Old 10-22-2006, 10:08 PM   #5
    kayda
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi again,

    I thought of a few other symptoms I've had over the years:

    chills at night
    difficulty in hot weather: feeling faint, unable to function
    forgetful
    difficulty navigating, lost while driving
    temperature ups/downs
    shortness of breath
    knee pain
    muscle contractions, stiffness: unknown cause

    Can close family contact cause other members of my family to be infected with Lyme?

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your help!
    Kayda

     
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    Old 10-23-2006, 04:26 AM   #6
    ShanghaiSD
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Kayda

    Who told you that a CD57 of 11 was good? It is better than 0, but it is not good. Normal is between 60 - 360.

    The CD57 test is quite specific for Lyme disease, meaning that if it is below range and you are having symptoms that reflect Lyme then there is a great chance that you have Chronic Lyme disease. If you do a search for CD57 and then look at the first article you find then that should give you some good scientific based info.

    IgM usually means current or recent infection. IgG usually means past infection. However for Lyme disease it is not so clear cut. You say you also have Mycoplasma P.

    Both of these should be treated with Antibiotics. You say that you have an LLMD and he hasnt given you any antibiotics after 1.5 years of symptoms. Doesnt seem right to me. i think you need a new LLMD. Lyme disease is a clinical diagnosis anyway, even though you have results to prove it.

    EBV and CMV can lead to complications especially in immuno suppressed patients. However if you tested many people without symptoms there would be many that tested positive. I doubt they are as significant as your Lyme and Mycoplasma infections.

    Good luck, but if I was you I would definetley be looking for a 2nd opinion!
    Steve

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 07:45 AM   #7
    J0J0
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kayda
    Can close family contact cause other members of my family to be infected with Lyme?

    Hi Kayda...that is up in the air...BUT....I do know one doctor he has lyme...and now his wife and his 4 kids do....He feeels is is from using the same drinking glasss and eatting utensils...Some people seem to have gotten it from sex...I am thinking maybe it all depends on immune systems of the partner...My husband seems to be just fine, for now anyway....

    I agree with everyone on here...YOU TRULY NEED TO GET ANOTHER DOCTOR...boy whoever you saw really has some light bulbs off in his head...You have lyme and he is not treating you....shame shame shame on him
    Take your test and get yourself to another doctor....or....
    there are also Dr. J's tinctures ....if you can't find a doctor to help you....

    HOPE YOU FIND THE RIGHT PATH TO TAKE SOON!!!

    hugs...

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 07:54 AM   #8
    kayda
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for your post. I will try to answer your questions:

    >Who told you that a CD57 of 11 was good? It is better than 0, but it is not good. Normal is between 60 - 360.

    My LLMD dr. told me 11 was very good. I am looking at the test results and see that 11 is "In Range" however there is no "Reference Range." I also had a Lymphocyte subset panel 1 which shows T Cells, Helper cells, Suppressor T Cells, NKC, B Cells & Lyphocytes to be in range. There are "Reference Ranges" for each of these.


    >>The CD57 test is quite specific for Lyme disease, meaning that if it is below range and you are having symptoms that reflect Lyme then there is a great chance that you have Chronic Lyme disease. If you do a search for CD57 and then look at the first article you find then that should give you some good scientific based info.<<

    I will do the search and see what I come up with. I had no idea that the CD57 was specific for Lyme. Thanks for the explanation of the test. I think this LLMD knows the right tests to order, but I am confused about the non-treatment. He just says with my allergies to pain meds, he thinks I will develop allergies to antibiotics, will have to stop and then I will be worse off than before I started treatment. The last thing I want is to be worse off.

    >>IgM usually means current or recent infection. IgG usually means past infection. However for Lyme disease it is not so clear cut. You say you also have Mycoplasma P<<

    So, is it possible IGG could be current? If IGG is past infection, does it mean my body has dealt with it already and it is not infecting me now? Yes, it is true I am positive for M. Pneumoniae AB, IGG my result: 3.20 (1.10 or greater is positive). (M.Pneumoniae AB IGM was negative.)

    >>Both of these should be treated with Antibiotics. You say that you have an LLMD and he hasnt given you any antibiotics after 1.5 years of symptoms. Doesnt seem right to me. i think you need a new LLMD. Lyme disease is a clinical diagnosis anyway, even though you have results to prove it.<<

    This doesn't seem right to me either. That's why I wondered if I truly have Lyme. Although, I must say the LLMD was starting to speak about a treatment plan until I told him about my drug allergies & sensitivies to pain medicine. Then he stopped & switched course. I wonder if the Lyme caused my drug allergies. (they have gotten bad in the last two years. Before that, I didn't have problems taking pain meds.) Do you know if it could?

    >>EBV and CMV can lead to complications especially in immuno suppressed patients. However if you tested many people without symptoms there would be many that tested positive. I doubt they are as significant as your Lyme and Mycoplasma infections.<<

    So, I should concentrate on the Lyme and the Mycoplasma. Can EBV be re-activated?? I wonder if that is why I am so fatigued (inaddition to the Lyme)

    >>Good luck, but if I was you I would definetley be looking for a 2nd opinion!<<
    Isn't it ironic that here I have a Positive test for Lyme & Mycoplasma and I am not getting treated. Many here struggle to get tested, some never do and yet they do get treatment. I do not really know of any other LLMD's. I am going to call an alternative medicine clinic which I just heard of. They do not use antibiotics. All of this is SO hard to do when you're so sick . It must be done, though.

    Do you think Lyme and Mycoplasma can be beat without antibioitics? Will Salt/C or Dr. J's tinctures do it? Antibiotics (for my heart and sinus infections have messed up my stomach/digestive symptoms horribly).

    Thanks Steve. I'm sorry this got so long. Looks more like a book!
    Kayda

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 08:04 AM   #9
    kayda
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    Thumbs up Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi JoJo,


    >>that is up in the air...BUT....I do know one doctor he has lyme...and now his wife and his 4 kids do....He feeels is is from using the same drinking glasss and eatting utensils...Some people seem to have gotten it from sex...I am thinking maybe it all depends on immune systems of the partner...My husband seems to be just fine, for now anyway<<

    This is very interesting. My family members show some very mild signs which COULD be Lyme. I asked this LLMD to give order a test for DH, based on my findings, but he said he wanted to see DH first in his office. DH didn't make appt. It would have been a long drive. We're trying to see if his family dr. will order the test through Igenex.

    >>I agree with everyone on here...YOU TRULY NEED TO GET ANOTHER DOCTOR...boy whoever you saw really has some light bulbs off in his head...You have lyme and he is not treating you....shame shame shame on him <<

    It's hard switching drs., yet it is very frustrating to not get treatment. I kept hoping he would do the treatment. I am seeing the same dr. as Shanna. I'll have to ask her if he is treating her with antibiotics. (I hope he doesn't mess her up, too.) It looks like I fell through the cracks!


    >>Take your test and get yourself to another doctor....or....
    there are also Dr. J's tinctures ....if you can't find a doctor to help you....<<

    This seems to be the consensus. I am making two phone calls today.

    >>HOPE YOU FIND THE RIGHT PATH TO TAKE SOON!!!<<

    Me too!

    Thanks!
    Kayda

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 08:05 AM   #10
    Smyle
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi Kayda:

    I am in MN and have been watching some of the posts that you and romans are sending back and for about this Dr. M. The longer you leave lyme untreated the more problems you could end up with. Shanna has already had some aggresive treatment, but if you have had none in a year and a half, please find an llmd soon.

    A CD57 is usually reported as two numbers, the first is the percentage of cells found in the sample and the second number is the actual cell count. Was 11 the percentage? If not 11 is very low and not a good result.



    Frango

    Last edited by Smyle; 10-23-2006 at 08:15 AM.

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 08:08 AM   #11
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Kayda...you have a positive test...going as long as you have you deffinately have Chronic Lyme....your truly need to start some type of treatment right away....your doctor is sooooo wrong in NOT TREATING you....majority of people with Lyme have allergies to meds. Just because you have problems with pain meds is no reason NOT to treat you for lyme....I know I was on many antibiotics trying to find the right ones...and many different types of pain meds....something is not right in what you are being told...you can wind up in a wheelchair...or have such mental issues you will be damaged for life...OR die....it does NOT go away on it's own...they are bacterias and will only cause you more harm....don't mean to scare you...but it is so horrid this doctor is not treating you!!!!

    With the virus's you have majority of people of them in their system...I was told we motst likely get them ehn weer kids and the lay dormint in the body until our immune systems are run down...Once you start treating for lyme and the M. P. the viurs's will calm down...your test are the same as mine...it scared me too...but we all have these in our bodies and wouldn't know it unless we had the test...

    Like Steve said your main problems are the two bacterias....Lyme and the M.P. I have the C.P. which is in the same family as the M.P. They need antibiotics to be cured...Or the lyme has the alternatives to fall back on....

    I know this is all confusing at first...and you are right about here you have a positive and no treatment...hmmmm....I NEVER had a positive...take that test and get some help soon.....

    Were all here if you need some support.....
    Hugs to you....

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 08:12 AM   #12
    kayda
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi Frango,

    Thanks for your reply!


    >>I am in MN and have been watching some of the posts that you and romans are sending back and for about this Dr. M. I am concerned for both of you. The longer you leave lyme untreated the more problems you could end up with. Shanna has already had some aggresive treatment, but if you have had none in a year and a half, please find an llmd soon.<<

    The crazy thing is this dr. is supposed to be an LLMD.

    >>A CD57 is usually reported as two numbers, the first is the percentage of cells found in the sample and the second number is the actual cell count. Was 11 the percentage? If not 11 is very low and not a good result.<<

    My test doesn't show two numbers. Just 11. More confusion.

    Thanks for the names of two dr. in MN. I just wrote them down, so go ahead and delete them from your post. BTW, how do you edit a post once it's been posted?? I'm still learning how to post and navigate this site. One more ques. regarding posts. When I Submit Reply, how do I get back to the original thread without going to the top and clicking "Lyme Disease" & or is it the "Name of the Thread" I forget which one???

    Thanks so much
    Kayda

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 08:27 AM   #13
    Smyle
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Hi Kayda:

    You can click on the first icon on the lower right to edit. Also, you can go to the first page in the thread or you can click on the name of the thread at the top to get back to the beginning.

    Many Dr's claim to be llmd's or get labeled as llmd's if they are willing to entertain treating patients with lyme, but not all approaches make sense. My llmd is an I.D.- often not the best choice for lyme, and I'll admit he is conservative, but after months and months of high dose orals I am now in I.V. Rocephin. I am forced to take a break because of bad side effects, but the plan is to retest my CBC and restart. If I have the same problems again then I am most likely done with this picc and I don't know if I want to go through the process of getting another one inserted.

    Was your CD57 done by Labcorp? My understanding is that only Labcorp and MDL lab are reliable for this test. I'll give you and idea on my results. My % of natural killer cells 1 (same as CD57 was 7 and my total count was 81) Normal range is 60-360 and most healthy people have CD57's around 200. Dr. Burrascano says that he likes to see lyme pts with CD57 of at least 60, so in that respect I am doing pretty well. My results are most likely indicative of a co-infection but as of now I only test positive for lyme.

    This Dr. M seems to take more of a natural approach with I think is important and once I knock this back to the point where I don't have symptoms for at least two months then I will add either Stephen Buhners ( his book is healing lyme) recommended herbs or Dr. Jernigans tinctures, BUT- it is my very strong belief and I know it is the belief of many of the nations top lyme experts like Dr. Burrascano that lyme is a bacterial infection and it needs to be addressed first with antibiotics. I know there are others who have done well on natural remedies alone, and who knows, they may be right, but I just have to go with my gut.

    Frango

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 08:34 AM   #14
    kayda
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    JoJo,

    Thanks for your quick reply. I really do need support. Just knowing I can count on you (and others here) though helps lift a burden. I've stuggled being sick for SO long, it's almost become a way of life--what I mean is, I hardly can remember what it is like to be healthy!

    Is it at all possible my body could have fought off the Mycoplasma or Lyme?? I guess I am still confused about the IGG being a past infection. Does past infection mean it is not active??? OR maybe it doesn't matter. I definitely have CNS symptoms. Last summer, I was hospitalized (major medical center) for two days because drs. thought I had a stroke. Event occured while I was reading a book to dd. Suddenly the words on the page didn't make sense. I had difficulty comprehending when dd spoke to me, I had difficulty speaking. Something very weird happend with my vision. It was like the same scene raced in front of me eyes over and over. I got a headache. Drs. ran every test for stroke imaginable. Nothing confirmed it, yet they couldn't rule it out either. At the time, I asked them to do the Western Blot for Lyme. THey said yes, then changed and ran and ELISA (w/o telling me ). Elisa was negative. They never told me they didn't do the WB, just said my test was negative and left it at that . A month later, I foundDr. M who ran the WB. I was SO grateful he ran the right test and thought I was in good hands. But, alas, I haven't been treated either. I fell through the cracks with him once before when he didn't tell me I was positive for Lyme for 5 months. I called twice asking the results. His nurse assured me if anything was wrong, he would call me. So, since he didn't call, I assumed all was O.K. I found out later when I requested my records. Imagine how horrifying that was as I read the results and saw "positive" circled. When I asked him about it, he said this has never happened to anyone else, so I gave him another chance. Something does seem to be wrong here. I don't mean to "air all this dirty laundry" but the history is important, too. Maybe I will delete this later after you've read it.

    Thanks again for your supportive words. I should make those two phone calls now. I'll let you know what happens. One other thing concerns me. Many seem to be treated with antibiotics and just don't get better.....I guess I do not know if that will be true in my case, hopefully, not.

    Kayda

     
    Old 10-23-2006, 08:34 AM   #15
    ShanghaiSD
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    Re: Test Results & Western Blot Band Questions

    Kayda

    I am an Aussie living in China and travelled 1/2 way around the World to San Francisco just to see a LLMD. I made sure I saw someone good. I didnt waste any time. It wasnt easy!

    I am also concerned about your LLMD and this is coming from someone who only knows a little. You said he should know what the CD57 test is and what to order, but your test only shows one number. He has obviously ordered the wrong test (there are several similar) and again proven that he is not so well informed.

    I dont know about all the other infections but Lyme is immuno suppresive, meaning that viruses like EBV, which can be dormant in your body, can then reactivate due to the decreased immune response your body is able to produce as caused by the Lyme.

    It is very well documented that many people with Lyme develop all sorts of allergies, this in fact is often used as a clinical symptom. There is also discussion how many long term allergies dissapear with appropriate treatment.

    I do think at the very least that you should perhaps try some treatment and see the result. If you experience a Herx reaction then it will be more clear. What do you have to lose?

    I dont know if we can beat them! They are tough critters! I also dont know too much about alternatives like Salt C etc.

    All I know is that I am going to at the very least try and beat it, many people have been successful with abx so I am giving that a shot first. I would prefer to be trying to do something rather than continue seeing my body get worse.....which is what was happening before I started treatment.

    Good Luck!

    Last edited by ShanghaiSD; 10-23-2006 at 08:36 AM.

     
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