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boscot 01-28-2009 03:56 PM

Just go my test numbers back

curious as to opinions on these numbers...

44 year old male...excellent health no issues until recently...diagnosised with GI inflamtion disease....while doing blood found I had low T...was having symptoms whole time...ED, anxiety, temper, sweats etc. Physically quite strong and very verial up until GI onset....never had ED issues etc. Blood pressure, blood sugar etc all excellent.

Doctor placed me on Androgel...along with meds for stomach...all symptoms have improved excepting for some axniety sweats and ED.

Retested after 3 months of 5mg of Androgel daily and here's where I am...

Total T 318
Free T 7.9
Estradiol 17
Cortisol 11
FSH 1.0
LH 1.1
Prolactin 2.7
DHEA 1.7

Really disappointed nothing move much from first test after 3 months of androgel....Doc has upped me to 10mg. Numbers are pretty much same as they were 3 months ago prior to really little number improvement and only small physical ED improvements.

I am heading to a Endo in Boston for more help.

Any thoughts?

thanks for any help...really frustrated.


Living still 01-29-2009 06:08 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
I am not sure what all causes low T (I do know a few things) but I would look in that direction. The fact that it didn't help your ED is what is troubling. If Low T was causing that then it should have bounced back. The other troubling issue is that your T levels have not changed with 3 months of usage. Definately, let us know what endo says. Thanks.

boscot 01-29-2009 08:42 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
[QUOTE=Living still;3866574]I am not sure what all causes low T (I do know a few things) but I would look in that direction. The fact that it didn't help your ED is what is troubling. If Low T was causing that then it should have bounced back. The other troubling issue is that your T levels have not changed with 3 months of usage. Definately, let us know what endo says. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

thanks for the comments...inflamatory diseases have been known to shut down your T demonstrated by my low LH and FSH levels...question is can you restart them?? Also the dosage I was getting may be insufficient? or maybe just not easily absorbed by my system...may need injection possibly HCG? Endo heading to next month will have better handle on in.

Just never though I would be at this place...looking at me physcially you wouldn't believe it either.

Any others with thoughts on numbers? Hayfarmer how about you?


mail04 01-29-2009 09:22 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
You cant rule out that androgel isnt working. You have to read up on the HPTA feedback loop. Pretty much when you start T replacement your body has more T in it. So your hypothalmus sees the extra T and stops telling the pituitary to make LH/FSH. Once this happens you are completly dependent on the external T. In this case your LH is very low so the testicles arnt getting much of a signal to make T. Uping the doseage might work well. You should talk to your doctor about adding in HCG to keep your testicles working, making hormones, and keeping you fertile.

boscot 01-29-2009 09:43 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
thanks for the LH and FSH numbers were low prior to taking the androgel...and have stayed there...the concern was that my total T did not respond to the supplmental T is stayed about the same level. I am hoping the new doc might consider injections with HGC too...would really love to see my system come back on line now that the GI issues are under control...not sure if that is possible and/or likely. Could HGC do that? No worried about being fertile...had Vas 4 years ago...just want to feel good and have decent sexual performance.

mail04 01-29-2009 10:23 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
HCG has more benefits than just fertility. It will also keep your natural testosterone going and the testicles do produce other hormones that are important for the body.

Living still 01-30-2009 05:32 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
A couple of questions. If a guy starts using HRT and then stops does the body permanently stop making T or does it usually just take time for the body to realise it needs to start manufacturing again? The other thing with all of this is that with GCZTRF (Whatever the one is that doesn't stop the testies from making T) wouldn't the overall hormone levels in the body be the combination of both the Bodies production and the external source?
You also mentioned Inflamatory disease. Later you mentioned your GI tract being better. Does that mean that you had or have IBS and that IBS can cause low T? I have CP which I know can and does however according to my doc my tests prove that I am fine. You need to know that CP also became orchitis. If the infection in the prostate won't stop it how about the one in the testicle itself. hehe. All good though, there is treatment for it and you can get better. I am proof.

boscot 01-30-2009 07:32 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
I have some form of Chrohn's...the doc's surmise that as my body reacted to the disease it shut essintial systems such as T production...makes sense as the disease increased so did my low T symptoms. I am hoping with the combo of inflamation being better controlled and possible some HGC my system may restart it own production. As of now however not much has happened. I was looking for some of the others to comment on my numbers prior to me meeting with new highly regarded Endo in boston.

Living still 01-31-2009 05:36 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
I see. So the problem isn't you bouncing back after the disease is gone it is more that your body is still battling the disease. I know that that is about. Don't know much about Chron's though. I am guessing you have already as I spent a long time researching CP to get answers to my predicament. That made a world of difference. The Medical community have actually been the ones dragging their feet not the other sources. You have to read the obscure stuff too if you are interested.

boscot 01-31-2009 08:10 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
Chron's in for just a matter of putting it in remission and the body not struggling to control it. The meds giving to me have done a pretty good job putting it down and soon it should be controlled long term...body does need some time to heal from what was a chronic uncontrolled malaise. I however need to get me hormone system back on track so that I once again and be like I was.

Living still 02-01-2009 08:09 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
Obviouisly one wants to encourage their body to manufacture it's own supply of whatever it needs naturally if we can however I wonder if that might be just a little too much for your's as of yet. Again, I don't know much about Chron's except that it is a digestive (bowl actually) issue and the bowl is responsible for a huge portion of our immune systems. Is there a way of boosting T levels in the body on a temporary level while working on the rest of the body?
I have IBS which according to some folks online could be a result of CP. At least the two seem to somewhat linked together as the amount of folks who have occurences of both is oddly high. Anyway by working on my immune system I have found that for one my issue with CP has been helped greatly, my hair is growing back and I am having less problems with my bowls. There is a lot of discussion online about various forms of fungus's that could be linked to IBS, CP, Chron's, Colitis and Diverticulitis as well as many other medical conditions. I am wondering if maybe there is something out there that can help you?

hayfarmer 02-01-2009 10:05 PM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
What were your numbers before being on androgel? The numbers while on it are pretty useless because the exogenous T (androgel) will skew all the numbers. It is not surprising you T levels would not go up while on 5 g on androgel. You body stops making it's own T so you are now dependant on the AG and 5g is not enough for most men.

The problem is you need to diagnose the root cause before staring any androgel or other replacement. Only then can you know the right treatment. To restart (if thats possible) you need to be on HCG and clomid. A simple test to see if this might work is to take clomid for a week or two and then retest total T and LH. Fortunately AG gets out of your system after a few days so you can still figure this out with the right help.

I would like to see your numbers before the AG. But, otherwise, the thing to do to try a restart would be to stop the AG, take clomid and HCG for a month or two and see what happens. Then you would remove the HCG and clomid and see if it works. I think you remove one before the other but I'm not sure of the order. You need a really good doctor to try that.

BTW, never heard of a GI problem causing this but the root cuase for many men is unknown so I can't say there is no connection. Sorry, I'm so busy now I dont' get the time to post here as much. I'll try to follow your thread when I can get here.

Pre-AG numbers should hopefully include total T, LH, FSH, estradiol, total estrogen, prolactin and TSH. Others may also be needed depending on the values of the above.

boscot 02-02-2009 07:23 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
hayfarmer...thanks so much...I have read many of your posts and respect your opinions.

my total T prior to starting AG was about 307 no other numbers as is was just a marker along with other general blood panel taken at that time to see what might be causing me all my symptoms in my stomach etc....

doctor did feel this was very low considering my age health and body type....very muscular very verile etc. The 5gs of AG did very little...he now has me upped to 10gs as I was still having symptoms beyond ED, hot flashes sweats etc. the 10gs has eleviated most issues except the ED. I am going to a well respected Endo in Boston on the recommendation of my Dr. feeling this is now beyond his knowlege base.

As for the GI causing issues... the surmise is that is was a chronic inflamatory disease tha taxed my body and caused it to shut down "non-essential" systems...such as T production. A couple books I have read state that long term chronic illness can have such a cause...specifically inflamatory diseases...who knew....they believe that this GI issue was plaguing me for almost 4 years...and as it increased so did no libido etc. fall off.

Reality for me is...can thru HGC injection/treatment etc. can I get my own system back on line (now that disease is in control) or am I facing some sort of Tthearapy for life? Any thoughts on this?

boscot 02-06-2009 07:45 AM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
Hayfarmer and final thoughts???

hayfarmer 02-06-2009 12:54 PM

Re: Just go my test numbers back
There is no way to know if you can restart you HPTA or not until you try. But it is definitely worth trying since hormone replacement at it's best will not make you feel as well as you did before all this it's just generally a pain in the a**. See if this new endo will let you try the clomid test where you take clomid for a few weeks and then test for LH and T to see if they responded at all. You must be off the androgel during this test. If your doctor(s) will not give it a try you may have to travel to Dr Shippen or Dr. Crisler. You really should run all the tests too after being off androgel for a couple weeks to make sure there is not something else obvious causing this. Those tests should include total T, LH, FSH, TSH, prolactin, total estrogen, estradiol at a minimum.

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