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    Old 10-17-2007, 08:07 AM   #1
    dker
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    What was your double-vision like initially

    I'm trying to understand some anomalies in my vision, and I'm wondering what "defines" having double-vision.

    During the day, my vision seems totally normal. I don't notice any kind of double-vision. However, I've noticed that if I look at a star in the night sky, I see it doubled (I see two dots). I can't get it to converge. Does anyone else have symptoms like that? Or did your double-vision start like that? Or if you have double-vision, is every single thing you see "doubled."

    Maybe another way to pose the question is: was your double-vision "subtle" when it started? Or were you *sure* there was something clearly amiss with your sight?

    I also have cataracts, so it could be that, too, but still, I would love to hear of other people's experiences.

    Thanks,
    -Dave

    Last edited by dker; 10-17-2007 at 08:10 AM.

     
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    Old 10-17-2007, 08:45 AM   #2
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    I at times have the issue. Mine is rather subtle and I am only aware of it when I am over tired. The double image I get isn't at all distinct. Its as if you took a couple of slides of the same image and layed them on top of each other and then just SLIGHTLY moved one a bit left or right. The weird thing is that it seems to only be my left eye thats affected...strange?

    Welcome to the board, and good luck to you.

    Mitch

     
    Old 10-17-2007, 11:42 AM   #3
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    What you are describing is exactly what the description of cataracts is.....You need to go see your opthamologist and get checked out to see if they have grown or changed!
    As for double vision, it would be all the time, not just at night...
    Optical Neuritis can be alittle like what you are speaking of...its inflammation of the optic nerve, and because of it, is more noticable in the dark, or with certain colors..ON is usually very painful though, and unless this is accompanied by pain, is not likely to be the reason.
    I have a cataract in one eye, my doctors are watching it carefully....and truthfully, what you describe is a daily occurance to me (espeically driving at night).
    Go get checked, for peace of mind, okay?? Your eyes arent something you want to mess with, or put off..
    Good luck
    N
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    Old 10-17-2007, 12:02 PM   #4
    dker
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Thanks to you both, Mitch and Nik, for your responses. I will (obviously) be very happy if it is "just" cataracts, and not a sign of MS. I'm in the midst of potential early symptoms so of course I'm hyper sensitive to anything that seems amiss. I have a call into my opthamologist already and am waiting to hear back. I actually just had my regular, yearly appt. a month ago or so, so if anything changed, I'm sure he'll be able to spot it. And maybe my vision has always been like this, but now that I'm examining everything, looking for signs, I just noticed.

    Insidious, this diagnosis process for MS is. That's for sure.

    Thanks again for your info; it was very useful.

    -Dave

    Last edited by dker; 10-17-2007 at 01:30 PM.

     
    Old 10-17-2007, 01:14 PM   #5
    helricha
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    I usually don't notice my double vision even though it's there all the time. It's only in one eye as well. Most of the time my brain makes up for the discrepancy unless I look really far to one side or I'm laying on my side and trying to look at the tv or look at someone.
    It can be quite frustrating.
    I also have a somewhat hard time seeing at night when I'm driving which is even worse when it's raining at night.

     
    Old 10-17-2007, 02:01 PM   #6
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Dave, welcome to our world. Insidiious is a good word for this disease! Let me just tell you, having a positive MS dx as Mitch and I do, its not the end of the world..there are much worse things to have happen to your body, MS, is controllable for the most part.
    We have so much to tell you about it, and so many answers to your questions, please jump right in and continue asking! Do you have a good Neuro who is working with you at this time? There is also a specialist called a Neuro-Opthamologist, who specializes in eyes and nerve functions..many of us, including myself, see one regularly to monitor changes...usually your optha can refer you, or possibly your insurance company. They are hard to find, and harder to get an appt with, so if you are at all interested, make an appt now, while you DONT need one for a good exam! Continue with your regular Opthamologist in the meantime...
    Please keep us posted, and remember, no matter what, you are NEVER alone..we are always a click away here to help you thru the rough spots!
    Hugs to you, and let us know how youre doing..
    Nikki
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    Old 10-17-2007, 03:52 PM   #7
    dker
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Hi Nikki,

    Thanks again for your kind words (and thanks to helricha for posting as well).

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MSNik View Post
    there are much worse things to have happen to your body, MS, is controllable for the most part.
    That is an incredible viewpoint, Nikki, one I respect a lot. I had cancer when I was in my twenties, but it was very fast growing, meaning it was more likely to respond to chemo. I always felt so lucky to have one that would respond to chemo as opposed to a slow growing kind, or something that didn't even have treatment options. I guess there is always something worse that can happen. Keeping a perspective is key, for sure. Too bad it can feel next to impossible at times! But for you to have that attitude while going through this is remarkable. Kudos to you.

    In any case, I just spoke to my opthamologist on the phone and described what was happening. He was adamant that it was not related to MS. He said it was entirely consistent with the type of cataracts I have (as you noted) and (as you also noted) he said MS would not present this way, but would present with TN and most likely pain. He was very, very reassuring, which was nice. My guess is I've had this thing with seeing double-stars for awhile and never really noticed. Only now that I'm hyper-aware and inventing symptoms to worry about did I notice it!

    I do have a good neuro I'm working with, whom I like a lot. I have been seeing him for awhile for migraines when this came up (he also sees a lot of MS patients). That is a great tip about getting into a neuro-opthamologist while things are still good. I have my MRI on Friday and will be speaking to my neurologist then, so I'll ask about it. I'm going to follow up with my opthamologist as well about the double-vision, just because.

    Thanks again for the posts and support. I know the power of a supportive community from when I went through cancer, and this site seems to be a great resource full of great people.

    -Dave

    Last edited by dker; 10-17-2007 at 03:53 PM.

     
    Old 10-17-2007, 05:49 PM   #8
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Dave, this support group literally saved my sanity a year ago, when I was first dx....actually, its been 13 almost 14 months now! Im on Rebif, and that too, was a big deal for me to adjust to, now its like second nature...take a shot, and be on my way!
    Ill share alot with you if you want to hear it...things like how I too, went thru some major challenges healthwise in my 20s. Im 40 now. I also had just gotten married, was 1 semseter away from my masters degree when all this hit, and still managed to graduate valedictorian of my class...you want inspiration? You got it! Ill be away next week for a few days, doing an expo out of town for work...I share that because if you look for me and Im not here, Ill get back to you when I return, but also to let you know that MS doesnt stop you from doing whatever it is you do.....only you can stop you.

    As for the eyes, glad to hear I was on track with that...your eyes are SO important! Do look into the neuro-opth, just to have one lined up and in case you need him. I make an appt every 6 months just to "keep in his records" so that the few times I really do need him in between, they know who I am and Im a patient of record! Its good to have your bases covered. Your opth sounds very thorough though, and youre in good hands.....its funny, youll start thinking all sorts of things are MS related for the next few months..we all go thru that...you have to tell yourself that NOT everything is MS related, and a cold, is still just a cold...eye strain is simply eye strain...cataracts will happen and can easily be fixed (im with you on that one), and everything else is manageable. MS is not a death sentence!!!! Youve been thru more than the average person has ever dealt with and survived it...this will be a piece of cake for you! We will help you to get thru the rough spots!
    Hang tight..and keep us posted.
    Hugs,
    Nikki
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    Old 10-18-2007, 06:41 AM   #9
    dker
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Thanks again for the note, Nikki. That's quite a story. I'm feeling awfully dizzy this morning, though, so I'm going to keep this quick. Last night I tried to watch some TV (in the dark) with my wife and had to stop because all that would go through my head is whether or not I was seeing it doubled. I suppose it is similar to looking at the stars at night (looking at a TV screen in the dark). It definitely seemed somewhat amiss, but then, I wonder if I'd have even noticed if I was so hypersensitive to anything being wrong right now. Does your cataract give you issues like that?

    And though my ophthalmologist and you both mentioned that MS doesn't present with double-vision, searching on ****** (why, oh why do I look there???) led me to some articles that seemed to say it can. I guess ON is much more common, though. Any thoughts there? I know I don't have ON (no pain, no blurriness, no dark spots). Have you ever heard of someone's first symptom being double vision that isn't ON?

    And finally, I guess I keep telling myself that if I really had double vision, either from nerves or muscle issues, and not from cataracts, I'd have double vision during the day, too. But looking at this computer screen, for example, it looks normal. So I tell myself it must be my cataracts. As we agreed: INSIDIOUS! I wish I could just turn off my brain right now and stop thinking about it!

    -Dave

     
    Old 10-18-2007, 06:44 AM   #10
    dker
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    BTW, my MRI is tomorrow morning, so I'm just trying to get through today to see what the neuro says about that. But it isn't a definitive test (right?) one way or the other, so I'm not even sure what to expect from that.

     
    Old 10-18-2007, 08:22 AM   #11
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    You have lots of questions, I'm sure. Msnik is wonderful because she is well informed and has tons of information.
    My Ms did present with double vision. That was the only issue I ever had until last year. I saw a neuro opthalmologist and my regular neuro and they've never considered it ON.

     
    Old 10-18-2007, 08:33 AM   #12
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Hi helricha- Thanks for the post. I get the sense MS can present with pretty much anything. On the one hand, I wish I could have the comfort that the eye doctor tried to give that MS never presents with double-vision, but I had a feeling he was wrong. It is nice to have some confirmation.

    You said you don't normally notice your double vision, but that it is there all the time (and your brain is compensating). If you TRY to notice during the day, can you? During the day, looking around, I just don't see anything unusual. I can really only notice it when I look at a star, or last night, when I was looking at bright spots on the TV in a dark room when the rest of the TV image was dark (e.g. looking at someone's eyes on an otherwise dark screen). I guess my hope is still that it is related to the cataracts, and not anything neurological, because of that.

     
    Old 10-18-2007, 01:44 PM   #13
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    if i look too far one way or the other then my peripheral vision is always double. Looking straight ahead, I just tried and I can't make it double unless I cross my eyes. lol. My neuro told me that my brain can compensate a lot for my double vision.
    I hope you find the cause of your vision problem.
    On a brighter note, I've had MS for 12 years and unless I tell someone, they don't know. So there is hope out there that you're not going to be affected to some of the extreme degrees.

     
    Old 10-18-2007, 01:49 PM   #14
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Hi Dave. I NEVER said that Double Vision isnt presented in MS. What I DID SAY is that what you described sounds alot more like cataracts, and alot less like double vision, because, and you said this too, usually double vision is NOT limited to only at night, or starry vision, but shows up while reading, and during the day as well. Sorry if I confused you, yes, double vision can be a sign of MS, however what you described definately sounds more like cataract related issues.....
    You asked if I ever have problems at night watching TV in the dark. I do, and lately Ive noticed that if I go to the movies, I have the same problem you describe...my optha told me just last week that my cataract is growing, but its not large enough to remove at this time, but he assured me that THIS IS WHY Im describing the problem I am describing...

    So, did you see the doc today and what did you learn?

    Helricha, thanks for the thumbs up...and sorry for the confusion, Im quite aware that MS and double vision have been linked....however, in general Optical Neuriitis is very much more publicized and happens more often with MS patients, simply because it is a neurological disorder, closely related to MS functions. Double Vision can be caused by numerous things, including but certainly not limited to MS; but more often then not, double vision is related to migranes, and head trauma. Either way, when double vision presents, it almost always presents in reading, day light activiites and is NOT limited to night time.

    Both of you have a wonderful night. Dave I cant wait to hear your latest report...remember, your mind controls your thoughts..you have to control your mind. YOU HAVE TO try to relax thru this, and not allow yourself to be hypersensitive to anything going on...every little thing will scare you, and thats no way to live!
    Hugs to all.
    Nikki
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    Old 10-18-2007, 02:17 PM   #15
    dker
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    Re: What was your double-vision like initially

    Thanks to you both for those updates. Nikki, I'm sorry I misunderstood your post about double-vision not being possible as a first symptom. Probably read what I WANTED to read! Anyway, I didn't see a doctor today; it is tomorrow that I have my MRI. I spent most of yesterday thinking it was Thursday, not Wednesday so I probably posted incorrectly about that along the way. My neuro said he'd be able to get access to the scans right away and get back to me tomorrow, so that's nice so I don't have to wait over the weekend.

    Thanks for clarifying (ha!) how your cataracts manifest. I do really think (hope) my vision issues are cataract related. The eye doctor sure seemed to think so. It is comforting to know that your symptoms sound similar and you had a similar dx from your eye doc.

    And your comments about relaxing and controlling my thoughts -- FOR SURE that is true. You'd think having gone through cancer and wondering if it would come back, I'd have learned better coping skills for the uncertainty. But it is always hard at first when it is all so fresh.

    Helricha, thanks again for clarifying (ha) your experience with double-vision. Mine doesn't happen if I look peripherally, but mine is not monocular so that's not surprising. I have an appt. with the eye doctor on next Tuesday ... even though he was quite sure it was cataract related and didn't even need a visit, I wanted to go in just to check. If nothing else, it is good to have it examined so if there are changes going forward, I'll know what they are.

    Thanks again to you both for your support! I hope I can repay the favor at some point!

    -Dave

     
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