It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Osteoporosis Message Board

  • Dxa scores with a grain of salt

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 06-28-2007, 05:40 PM   #1
    DesertBloom
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    DesertBloom's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: CA, USA
    Posts: 1,483
    DesertBloom HB UserDesertBloom HB User
    Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    I was going to wait to post this, but decided to go ahead with it now, even though the numbers may change a little when I see my dr.

    2004 QCT Lumbar spine total: -3.6 (Started Actonel, Calcium etc, exercise) **This test doesn't give any other numbers just what is listed.

    2006 QCT Lumbar spine total: -3.4 (Taking Actonel, Calcium etc, exercise)

    Started Forteo April 2006 (stop it for a 1 1/2 months and restarted-stopped Calcium)

    2007 DXA Lumbar spine total: -1.2 (L1= -1.1) (L2= -1.2)
    Neck: -2.3
    Total hip: -1.6

    These figures are going to look a little strange, but the problem is that QCT's overestimate your score "some", based on age, so it's hard to compare the first DXA to them. QCT's also don't scan the hip, so I have no other hip score to compare to just the 2 lumbar (L1-L2).

    When I see my Mineral Metabolism Dr next month she is going to figure out how much of this improvement is attributable to Forteo, and how much to the overestimation. Because I'm 53 the overestimation shouldn't be a lot, but she'll have to figure that out. I just hope there was no problems with the DXA, since I've never used it before. Either way, I'm happy with these numbers.

    Last edited by DesertBloom; 06-28-2007 at 09:50 PM. Reason: addition-formatting

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 06-28-2007, 08:13 PM   #2
    osteoblast
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    osteoblast's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: u.s.
    Posts: 1,679
    osteoblast HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    DesertBloom-WOW it's party time !!!! I am sure you can't wait to review the numbers with your doctor. Even if the numbers come down quite a bit, you have still made great progress. The numbers could come down alot and you would still have a good situation . I am unclear though about what adjustments your doctor would need to make? Are you thinking that she would adjust the new dexa result? Why would that have to be done?

    Too bad you didn't get a dexa before starting the forteo. Why did they do the QCT, and what is it?

    One thing that I am thinking is that your body must be completely exhausted from the major renovation. Possibly some of the pain you have is attributable to bone re-modeling. You should be absolutely sure that you are getting all your vitamins and minerals . You still have a good period of time left on forteo and so more renovation is likely. And, of course you want the new growth to be of the finest quality A-1 tip top!


    I hope you find an opportunity to celebrate what your body has accomplished! I am really happy for you!

    P.S.-I wanted to ask if you were taking magnesium? I know you mentioned that sleep was difficult with the pain. I am taking a magnesium supplement that I really like called CALM. You can get it at any health food store probably. I take a teaspoon during the day , and one before bed. It has helped me sleep. You probably know that magnesium works to relax muscle-even heart muscle. Also they say it is good taken with calcium at night to help with sleep and I think we know it would be good for bone at night. Some docs use it for mild hypertension. I think it also helped me with muscle spasms I was having at night. So I am thinking that it might help you in several ways. It's a powder you mix with warm water. I get the lemon flavored and it's like a very mildly sweet lemon tea. Very relaxing just drinking it. I find this more interesting and soothing than the magnesium pills.

    Last edited by osteoblast; 06-28-2007 at 08:15 PM.

     
    Old 06-28-2007, 09:47 PM   #3
    DesertBloom
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    DesertBloom's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: CA, USA
    Posts: 1,483
    DesertBloom HB UserDesertBloom HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    Hi Osteo: The first two scores I listed are the QCT's (Lumbar spine 1st = -3.6 the 2nd -3.4) When I had these done they didn't have a DXA in my town.

    The DXA scores shouldn't change, the only thing that we'll have to figure out is "how" much of the increase is attributable to Forteo vs Overestimation. Either way the DXA should remain the same-unless and this is a big unless, the DXA I had was "miscalculated" which can happen. It doesn't happen very often, but my Min Met doc say's she has seen DXA's that had glaring mistakes. Since I had the DXA done at the most reputable place in town, I don't think that will be the case, because I told her where I was having it and she said she hasn't seen any problems with there scores to date.

    The only mineral I stopped was calcium, I still take all that's in multi's vits, but I have to take them individually to eliminate the calcium which is in all multi vits; can't find a multi that doesn't have calcium so I take everything individually, minus ca, which is expensive. I'm also taking magnesium, vit d, manganese,and all the rest you can think of. I have to take the magnesium and potassium for my bad muscle spasms, which I've been doing since I was very young (had charlie horse probs growing up). I take them in the morning and before bed for the pain. I also take quite a few herbs that the dr say's are okay to take with the elevated ca. I've never tried the powder mag/potass does it work better than the caplets?


    But you're right the DXA scores should not change. So I'm thrilled since it's almost hard to believe going from my lowest -3.6 spine to -1.2 spine!!!!! Like I said I have no previous hip scan to compare to since the QCT doesn't give hip measurements or Z scores. I didn't post the DXA Z scores because I've been told they are a non issue if you're post menopausal.

    Last edited by DesertBloom; 06-28-2007 at 09:52 PM.

     
    Old 06-28-2007, 10:25 PM   #4
    osteoblast
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    osteoblast's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: u.s.
    Posts: 1,679
    osteoblast HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    DesertBloom - OK so the dexa numbers are not going to be altered by the doc. And, the only issue is whether the local machine was functioning properly. It's hard to look at your numbers without feeling winded in a way. You must feel stunned. Do you think that you could get the manager at the dexa facility to do a re-check because of the apparently massive improvement? It would seem that their facility would want to be absolutely certain that their machine is functioning properly . You could say that no print out would be required, just a look see to confirm.

    I would think that Lilly would want to study your case if your doc feels confident in the dexa results. That is how stunning it seems to me.

    Glad to hear you are getting all the vits. and minerals. That must be one tedious process to get all individually.

    I think the board must be on summer vacation tonight. And this is the night that you decided to reveal your numbers. Odd huh? Well for now it's a party of two.

     
    Old 06-29-2007, 03:40 AM   #5
    phylwill1152
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2006
    Location: Havana, IL
    Posts: 927
    phylwill1152 HB Userphylwill1152 HB Userphylwill1152 HB Userphylwill1152 HB Userphylwill1152 HB Userphylwill1152 HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    Hi DesertBloom...you should feel good about the improvements even if they aren't 100% accurate. A gain is a gain and something to be celebrated. Have a good weekend...take care...phyllis

     
    Old 06-29-2007, 09:05 AM   #6
    trail
    Member
    (female)
     
    trail's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Location: los gatos,california,usa
    Posts: 82
    trail HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    Desert Bloom
    I am so happy for you! I agree with Phyll will about gains. Your improvement gives us all hope too. Enjoy your good news.
    Trail

     
    Old 06-29-2007, 06:07 PM   #7
    montesflus
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts: 657
    montesflus HB Usermontesflus HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    HI DESERT!
    Well I'M not on vacation (wish I was). I just wanted to congratulate you on your wonderful DEXA results and like you so rightly say - even counting the ''overestimation'' - A GAIN IS A GAIN

    How are you feeling in yourself? Any news about some acupuncture treatments? I know they don't work for ''everybody''. But for many, they do.

    Anyway, I hope you and your family can get out together to celebrate your gains in bone density. If anybody deserves it, it's YOU

     
    Old 06-29-2007, 06:11 PM   #8
    petal*pusher
    Veteran
    (female)
     
    petal*pusher's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Feb 2007
    Location: Adrian, Mi. USA
    Posts: 445
    petal*pusher HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    DesertBloom....wonderful news...and thanks for sharing it!

    Hope you realize you're giving us all hope!.........Pam

     
    Old 06-29-2007, 06:28 PM   #9
    turtlelady
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    turtlelady's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Mt Vernon, NY USA
    Posts: 106
    turtlelady HB Userturtlelady HB Userturtlelady HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    How very wonderful for you! You are such a source of inspiration as well as information to everyone in this group, I just had to add my good wishes to the rest. God bless!

     
    Old 06-30-2007, 08:48 AM   #10
    DesertBloom
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    DesertBloom's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: CA, USA
    Posts: 1,483
    DesertBloom HB UserDesertBloom HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    Thanks Osteo, Phyllis, Turtlelady, Trail, Petal Pusher, and Monteflus for all your encouraging words!!!

    I really appreciate the support and comaraderie we have here, it helps so much to have understanding people to talk to!!!

    Continued good luck to you all with your individual treatments.

     
    Old 06-30-2007, 03:59 PM   #11
    tulsatime
    Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jun 2004
    Posts: 62
    tulsatime HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    Desert rocks!

    Thank you for sharing your good news and all of the kindness you have shown by posting valuable information.
    Wishing you continued improvement.
    Tulsa

     
    Old 07-02-2007, 11:37 AM   #12
    osteoblast
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    osteoblast's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: u.s.
    Posts: 1,679
    osteoblast HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    DesertBloom-Hi! I know that you have posted some info on dexa scores which I need to study. But, I am wondering if you could give me a general idea of what the percentage of increase in bmd would be if a person went from the following scores -3.5 to -2.5 . These numbers do not relate to me ( I would be happy if they did), but I am trying to get an idea of the incremental percent of bmd increase when jumping from the -3 range to the -2 range. I know you are looking carefully at the numbers right now because of your recent dexa and wondered if you had an idea what the percent increase might look like in the above situation .
    Hope you are still basking in the glow of your stellar results!!!

     
    Old 07-02-2007, 05:02 PM   #13
    DesertBloom
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    DesertBloom's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2006
    Location: CA, USA
    Posts: 1,483
    DesertBloom HB UserDesertBloom HB User
    Re: Dxa scores with a grain of salt

    Hi Osteo...How are you??? Any new info from the new drs??

    I'm afraid I have no idea how to figure the precent increases on those t-scores, I wish I did. If someone here knows how to do the math can you post it?

    I know when Phyllis posted her scores, she had the increases listed at the bottom of the post. Maybe if you look at that you can figure it out. Her increases where somewhere around 3.6% this year compared to last year, but I can't figure out how you arrive at that number. Math is Not my forte

    I won't see my dr until the end of July so she was the one who was going to figure out mine, to see what the actual increase is.

    I think you asked me what a QCT is and I never answered you, did you find out yet? Anyway a QCT stands for Quantitative Computed Tomography; if you've ever had a regular CT scan the machines looks/is the same. Supposedly it's the only scanner that gives a 3-D picture/measurement of the bone, which is better than the DXA, but it emits a very high amount of radiation, and the scores are highly variable and not reproduceable (if you understand that).

    Below is a link I've posted many times that explains the differences between the 2 scores, but I think these links get lost/forgotten, so to speak, after a short amount of time

    I asked the imaging place that did my scan if they would repeat it, and they said no. Since I've never had any other scan done there, they don't have anything to compare my scores to, so they don't look unusual That's not my opinion.

    The tech did spend a lot of time trying to figure out if my arthritis and titanium rods and screws interferred in any way, and according to her, she said my arthritis was in an area below L3 and she only scanned L1 and 2, so she thinks it's accurate. Also if she wasn't able to get a picture that "excluded" the rods/screws/arthritis, she was going to do my wrist instead, but in the end she didn't think it was necessary.

    I was having a "really" hard time believing the results, compared to the QCT, and she said she "has" seen improvements this great from others taking forteo, and added "...that's great stuff". I also asked if she see's a lot of patients on Forteo and she said no, but the ones she does see have had incredible increases. She also mentioned that you can't compare the two different scans to one another because they are very different. Look at the link on QCT and you'll see what I'm talking about. The dr is suppose to figure what the overestimation was on the QCT and then compare "that" (adjusted #) to the current results, so we'll see what she comes up with. The whole things seems so hard to believe, but either way it's a substantial improvement and I have NO trouble with that The other thing I don't get is factoring my age on that chart below. Since I'm not 55, I was told my QCT score would be closer to a person that is 45, on the chart, which makes no sense to me. Or they would compute a value that falls half way between the 45 year old and a 55 year old

    [url]http://courses.washington.***/bonephys/opbmd.html#WHO[/url]

    ***Scroll up to the para on QCT and read, and then click on the blue QCT text at the end of the para to take you to the chart.****

    Talk to you later...

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Salt Supplements sadaboutaddison Addison's Disease 4 04-23-2010 11:16 AM
    Subway: 9 grain bread JohnR41 Diet & Nutrition 7 04-08-2009 07:47 AM
    What to Do with LOW Dexa Scores - Asking for Advice sierrawalker Osteoporosis 2 01-31-2008 02:37 PM
    Help with understanding T & Z Scores playagirl Osteoporosis 3 03-08-2007 03:37 PM
    T/Z Scores peregrine Osteoporosis 10 06-17-2006 02:48 PM
    T-Scores Nan-NMW Endocrine Disorders 18 03-21-2005 01:39 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:31 AM.





    © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!