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    Old 07-06-2007, 07:26 PM   #1
    DesertBloom
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    Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi all: I've always been told that I don't have to take supplemental D because I live in the California Desert, and just going about your daily routine you get what is considered the maximum daily amount or more. My D levels have always been within range, on my blood tests, except for one D 125 that was slightly high. I'm always exposed to the sun while driving (legs, arms, and face) and when I sit out in the sun before 10:00 and after 2:00 I sit out for 20 minutes without sunscreen and then if I stay there longer I put sunscreen on. Now I'm not sure this is enough.

    Below is a new study on this theory along with PTH levels.

    [url]http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/559103[/url]


     
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    Old 07-06-2007, 08:34 PM   #2
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi Desert,

    Well I'm certainly no expert on vit d (as you know) . But you say that your tests have always been within range, one even slightly above range ( D 125). so why would you think you need to supplement? Did you check with your endo about this? If you're in doubt, maybe ask him/her again, and redo the blood test for vit d. I take calcium supplements (citrate), with magnesium and vit d, which both supposedly help with calcium absorption, but when I finally get to my primary doc, I want him to check my vit d along with all that other stuff you told me about BTW, My doc GAVE me the referral for the dermatologist and I go July 11 (re my hair), so I'll post after that.

    Take care, and enjoy the weekend

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 08:54 PM   #3
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi Monteflus: You have to read the article at Medscape to understand what I'm talking about. My drs feel I "do" get enough D, but according to this new study I posted, the guidelines for maximum sun exposure have changed, as of a week or so ago. Read the article/link and you will understand. If this study is correct, then the advice on maximum levels needed daily will change, meaning the reference ranges could as well.

    On all vits and minerals you have to figure "both" the natural intake (sun-diet for D) plus what you take in a supplement so you don't overdose. Have you had a chance to read about all the people on this broad with kidney stones, because they weren't calculating both dietary and supplements for Calcium to come up to their daily totals? You can easily over do these things if you don't factor both sources of vits and minerals in your daily consumption. There is also the belief that dietary intake on most vits and mins is the best way to get your RDA. I happen to be one of those that believes that since I've seen first hand the problems excess vits and mins can cause.

    Just make sure if you're suppose to get say 1200 mg of calcium a day, you're calculating you dietary and supplemental intake as a whole, otherwise you could be going way over what you need which can cause many painful probs.

    You may have to register to read the link, if you haven't already. Registration is extremely simple and free, and they don't send adds, spams or anything like that since it's a medical site. Once you register you can freely access all the articles they have-very good ones-that are usually intended for Drs and med students.

    Have fun reading, you should be interested in this since you live in CA, it would apply to you as well since we need to keep track of natural D and supplemental so we don't get "too" much, just like calcium. Glad you got the appt.

    Last edited by DesertBloom; 07-06-2007 at 09:27 PM.

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 09:06 PM   #4
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Desertbloom,
    I do the same thing as you - get sun on my skin while I"m driving and sit out in the sun for about 20 minutes or so without sunscreen, and get put it on if I stay out longer. In the winter months I make a point of sitting outside when it's sunny which is most of the time.I always wondered if in the summer I"m getting too much with the Vit D in the Citracal plus what's in dairy.

    I wasn't able to get into medscape but will try again later.

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 09:39 PM   #5
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Taape: You need to register to read the link. I'ts very simple and fast, and also free. You only need to register once, and then you can freely access the site which has tons of excellent articles. It's generally intended for Drs and med students/nurses, but the language is in simple English-no one should have any trouble understanding it, which I don't think you would have anyway.

    You can figure the amount of sun you are getting by timing the exposure then add that to what you get in D supplements, so you don't get too much. You don't want your D level to go to high or low, just like calcium and the rest.

    Are you far from Portland OR, I just read about a new drug that Osteoblast's new dr is doing a clinical trial on called amg162, for osteoporosis. It's an injection, twice a year, but different than the rest we've heard of. Maybe they might have a center near you that is doing the trials as well. Check out amg162 or Dr McClung in OR. THANKS TO OSTEOBLAST FOR THE INFO....


    Last edited by DesertBloom; 07-06-2007 at 09:44 PM.

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 10:17 PM   #6
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Thanks, Desert.

    I'll check out the link you mentioned (probably tomorrow). That's the reason why I need to do my ''shopping-list'' of blood tests which I need my primary doc for. Even though I've got the appt. with the dermatologist, I STILL don't have the very important appt. with my primary, for the bulk of my bloodwork. Still keeping my fingers crossed re that. The Kaiser Permanente - (which is an HMO) - slogan is ''THRIVE'' Well, I'm striving for that goal, but it sure would help to get quicker apppointments I DO get more than my fair share of sun - I walk almost every day for a couple of hrs. I don't think my bones can be THAT fragile in order to do that. Hopefully they're ''strong'', even if not that DENSE My T-scores from my last DEXA (done in Aug. 2006) were:

    AP Spine - -2.2
    Dualfemur - -2.5

    I don't think these scores are all that bad. I did fracture my wrist many years ago, but I was nowhere near menopause at that time. I remember how it happened, I was running to get to the market before it closed, and slipped on a pothole. It was a hairline fracture and healed very well. Well, you don't have to have osteoporosis to break a bone - it can happen to anybody, at any time. I agree with Phyllis, in that it's probably the strength of bone that counts, rather than the density. Probably most medical docs wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. But the more I read and learn, the more I've come to believe it.

    BTW, after getting my DEXA scores, I got a note via ''snailmail'' from Kaiser telling me that my bone density was ''abnormal''. They tried to push Fosamax on me (that's the med that's on THEIR formulary), which I refused. I'm glad I did!!

    Last edited by montesflus; 07-06-2007 at 10:22 PM.

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 10:37 PM   #7
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    The amg 162 , referred to above by DesertBloom , is Denosumab. This drug is still in clinical trials.

     
    Old 07-07-2007, 12:34 AM   #8
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi Osteo... I didn't know amg 162 was denosumab, but that is why I mentioned it to Taape about it being in clinical trials, and maybe they would accept her, I hope you don't mind . In knew the amg 162 trial was an Amgen product so it makes sense that it is Denosumab. Generally when they do clinical trials don't they try to do it in several "satellite" locations.

    Last edited by DesertBloom; 07-07-2007 at 09:54 AM.

     
    Old 07-07-2007, 12:57 AM   #9
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi Monteflus: Are you still up??? I am but only because my pain is keeping me awake-oh well nothing new there.

    I admire your persistence with Kaiser, I don't know if I could handle the waiting. At some point we'll probably have to go on an HMO, but they do cover so much more than what we have now, it's just the constant referrals and waiting that put me off, for the time being, plus most of them-don't know about Kaiser-won't pay for the forteo.

    Try to keep track of how much natural D and supplemental D you get so you don't go over the Recommended Daily Allowance. Walking is very good for you, so keep it up!!! Which I'm sure you will. I just recently come up with an idea where I think I will be able to get back to my daily walking, so keep your fingers crossed. I'm not used to not being able to do all the different exercises I was able to do a year ago-like clock work. But luckily there are still a lot of weight bearing upper body routines I do everyday that don't make things worse.

    Just tell yourself your dr "will" order the tests and see what happens-positive thinking like you're doing with your t-scores.

    Keep on THRIVING

    Last edited by DesertBloom; 07-07-2007 at 09:08 AM.

     
    Old 07-07-2007, 06:23 PM   #10
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    DesertBloom- Yes it is my understanding as well that the denosumab trials are conducted at various locations.

     
    Old 07-07-2007, 06:52 PM   #11
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    HI desert,

    Well, I tried to check the vit. d link you posted earlier, but for some weird reason my registration didn't go through. Each time I created a password, they said it was ''invalid''. I'll try another time, got too much to do right now. Sometimes those registration things are sooooooooooo annoying, and I WAS following their instructions.
    Forgot to ask you, did you ever try ''Rogaine'' for your hair? I haven't, I've got long hair and it's hard to get it into the scalp, not to speak of the itching!
    plus most people inform me it doesn't work too well either (if at all).

    I was sorry to hear about your pain keeping you up at night. How long exactly have you had such bad pain? Did you ever check further into the acupuncture option - I think it's a valid one. Even the soooooooooo conservative med docs actually admit this now

    I'll post back after my appointment with the dermatologist this Wednesday. I'm still waiting for an appointment with my primary physician, and, as you so rightly say, it's a real pain with the HMO's and the waiting and referral business. I don't know whether Kaiser would pay for some part of the Forteo cost (but I suppose if one can't tolerate bisphosphonates, they'd have to be able to offer an alternative). I haven't asked for Forteo. They'd probably want me to take Fosamax first to see how I do on it. But that's just what I DON'T want to do

    Take care

     
    Old 07-07-2007, 07:31 PM   #12
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi Desert,

    I finally saw the link. Hmmmmmmm. So there may be a connection between low vit. d and elevated PTH hormone. Who knows? Strange that the study with the people living in Hawaii, in all that sun, still showed so many with below normal levels of vit d. Goes against all reasoning, doesn't it Now I'm even more curious to get my vit d level

    Off to clean the kitchen, now,

    Take care

     
    Old 07-07-2007, 07:57 PM   #13
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi Monte: Glad you finally got in to read the article... In the future you might want the site to remember your password so you don't have to log in again.

    About vit d, I'm wondering what this means for me even though my levels are almost always normal. I suppose it means I have nothing to worry about, but what I couldn't understand is if you get the max of 60 ng a day of sun how could you still be deficient unless something else is causing it like pth etc. Has any dr ever told you, you don't need vit d because of where you live? I grew up down by you, and I don't think I ever heard that until I moved to the desert.

    There's a bunch of people here with low d, high pth, low pth, high calcium, low calcium etc. and we still haven't completely figured out whats going on. If your levels drop to low or high on any of these vitamins or hormones (pth) it "can" be very dangerous.

    I tried Rogaine, but it didn't do a thing. Hormones are the only thing that has helped, but I'm sure there are other things as well that could work, I just never found it.

    I was in a car accident 28 years ago, and sustained a lot of nerve and spinal damage and have had chronic pain off and on for most of that time. Luckily I've had blocks of time where the pain was bearable, and I could work, but it's not like that now. Aging doesn't seem to be helping any either, and then adding other painful problems to the mix, like arthritis and sacroilitis

    I still want to try acupuncture, but the place in town, is really expensive. My insurance will not pay for it, so I may try to work out something with them where they'll give me a package deal, since you need to go for a while.

    Usually if you can't tolerate bisphosphonates (fosamax etc) the insurances will consider covering the forteo, but you may have to get prior authorization on it because of the cost. My dr did that and it wasn't that hard, plus I had already been on Actonel, which I couldn't take, so they saw that I'd giving the alternative med a shot, and went ahead to cover the forteo.

    Good luck with your interminable wait with Kaiser, I hope you are able to get the tests done. The dr should factor in your t-scores to justify the blood tests to the insurance if he has too. Usually they do these tests if they need to find out if you have osteo through a secondary cause, like thyroid disorders, parathyroid, celiac etc, since you would already know if you have the usual ones like family history, estrogen loss, cortisone use, etc.

    Have a good weekend

     
    Old 07-08-2007, 08:36 PM   #14
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Hi Desert,

    In answer to your question - NO doctor has ever told me I don't need to supplement vit. d because of where I live - simply because I've never asked No, I've never asked about vit. d, or PTH, or anything, except I once casually asked about calcium. That's why I'm sooooooooo anxious to get my shopping list of bloodwork done

    I believe I once did a thyroid test, which came back normal, quite some time ago. Off to the dermatologist this wednesday (will post what he/she said afterwards).

    Bye for now

     
    Old 07-08-2007, 09:03 PM   #15
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    Re: Are You Getting Enough Natural Vitamin D-Maybe Not

    Good Luck-Hope you get some answers...

     
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