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  • Help! I'm new here and just started oxycodone

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    Old 05-30-2004, 05:47 AM   #1
    Angel a falling
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    Question Help! I'm new here and just started oxycodone

    i need help. i was recently in a bad car accident and hurt by back pretty bad so my doctor put me on hydrocodone 5-500 i believe? I could be in pain for a long time and i've heard these medications can stop working if you take them too long. i asked my doctor if it stopped working what would happen. he said he would raise the dose but i'm still scared. what if the higher dose stops working? i asked him if another medicine could be prescribed and he told me that these types of pain medications are all the same and switching them will do no good. he said a new one would be ineffective because narcotic pain pills act at the same site and receptor?, sorry , i'm a novice and i can't remember what he said. can someone out there tell me what i can do if i'm still in pain a year down the road. my back is pretty messed up. i can't get off the couch without help or straighten my back fully. the only other ones i've read up on are morphine, percocet, demerol, etc but i think these are all the same one just different brand names. somebody please help a novice in pain. please! by the way this is my first post on this website and boy am i glad i found out about it.

    angel a falling

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    Old 05-30-2004, 10:03 AM   #2
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    Re: Help! I'm new here and just started oxycodone

    Hey Dawn, Your doc basically dismissed your question because it's a what if, and you can what if untill the cows come how.

    Hydrocodone is not the only opiate pain med and all opiates don't bind to the same receptors.Some opiates have properties others don't. If the Hydrocodone is presently working why worry about a year down the road.

    Hydrocodone comes in 5mg 7.5 mg, and 10mg and when hydro no longer works you can go to Oxycodone prodiucts that come in 5, 7.5,10, 15, 30 and then long acting OxyContin comes in 10mg ,20mg,40mg,80,mg, and 160,mg tablets. If you don't get relief from oxy you may respond better to morphine which comes in short acting and long acting or you may respond better to Fentanyl in the duragesic patch.

    Methadone may be the best drug for you because it binds to the NMDA receptor which no other opiate aside from Levorphanol does. Dilaudid is 8 times more potent than morphine, Fentanyl is hundreds of times morte potent than morphine and binds to different recceptors. All opiates are not alike, and just because you become tolerant to Hydrocodne doesn't mean you will become tolerant to morphine, what he is describng is a theory called cross tolerance which is unproven. It basically says that if you are tolerant to hydrocodone than you would be equally tolerant to an equal amount of any other opiate. There are 3 different opiate receptors, the Mu, Delta and Kappa and each has 3-4 subclasses, different opiates bind to different receptors. There is not just one that they all bind too. You can mix opiates to bind to abroader range of receptors if a single opiate doesn't work. I know folks that take several different opiates because when you combine opiates 2+2 can equal more than 4 because you are hitting more than just one reseptor.

    Your doc is just being dismissive to the "what if " questions. What if you die before then , then it won't matter. What if you completely recovery, then it won't matter, What if you need surgery, then you have surgery, what if it fails, you try again or start looking into pain management.

    Does this doc really think a 10mg Viocodin is the best they can do with someone that has cancer, Come on....I've met folks that take more than 2000mgs of morphine per day, that mix 3 long acting opiates to obtain relief. The ability to manage pain is only limited by a docs ignorance or the side effects you experience.

    If you still hurt a year from now you may end up at a pain management clinic and learn different ways to deal with pain, along with medication. Like Biofeedback, self hypnosis, acupuncture, PT, TENS, TINS, nerve blocks, etc etc. Your injury is so fresh you have no idea where you will be in a year, so don't start planning on what drug you wlll need if you become tolerant to hydrocodone or what nursing homes take young people. It's a bit premature to worry about these things. People do recover from injury and if they don't there is treatment available to manage the most severe chronic pain you can imagine.

    Pure opiates without tylenol have no limit on the dose as long as you reach the dose in a slow and steady mannor, allowing your body to accomadate to each new dose or med.

    For example. A vicodin would be like a tic tac to me. I presently take 150 mgs of methadone a day plus I have 30mg morphine tablets for break through pain when the meth is not working as well. One 30mg morphine tablet is equal to 3 10mg Hydrocodone tablets and I'm allowed to take as many as 3 at a time. By the way, methadone isn't just used for Heroin detox. It's a pure opiate 5-10 times more potent than Morphine and stays in your system for days so each dose build upon the previous dose untill your serum level evens out after about 5 days.

    Pure opiates without apap do no internal organ damage, morphine or pure oxycodone or meth do no internmal organ damage where tylenol damages the liver and drugs like Aleive and Ibuprofen damage the kidneys. You can take pure opiates at high doses for decades and still get relief. Tolerance also is not inevatable. I've been on the same dose of meth for about 3 years other than one increase when I broke more hardware in my spine.

    I was taking 600 mgs of Long acting morphine untill I lost my insurance and switched back to methadone. Methadone is very cheap and the only med for chronic pain that folks who have no prescription insurance can afford.

    I have 3 failed fusion from L1-S1 and the screws used have snapped or toggle back and forth in the holes they are in, no bone grew into the threads and the fused portion of my spine didn't take. Instead of trying a 4th surgery I'm done being hacked on and the pump seems to be the answer for me.

    I'm having an Intrathecal morphine pump implanted next week. It can deliver Morphine, Dilaudid, fentanyl, suffentanyl, carfentanyl or affentanyl. They are also working on a drug called Prialt, It's in phase 3 clinical trials for IT pump use, It's 10,000 times stronger than morphine and comes from cone snails, It's not an opiate, doesn't cause physical dependence and may be the wave of future pain management.

    I'm only 38 and I'll go through a pump every 3-5 years when the batteries die. But untill then they can keep refilling the pump every month or two untill that point when they need to change the actuall pump.They can change meds or rotate meds to prevent tolerance or simply increase the dose when it becomes ineffective. They can also add other drugs like muscle relaxers to the pump or numbing agents similar to novacaine in small amounts.

    Your doc knows very little about pain management which isn't abnormal. The average doc gets 3 hours of classroom education in opiates and pain management.

    Just concentrate on your recovery and don't "what if?" yourself to death and worry yourself sick or into depression. What exactly did you injur, Did you need surgery? why would you think you won't fully recover? Attitude makes a big difference in recovering from an injury, someone thaty thinks they won't get better most likely won't.

    So think positive and work hard at recovering. If you are left with pain you can't manage without help, there is treatment available much stronger than the Vicodin your doc thinks is the most potent opiate in the world. Maybe he thinks if he tells you there is nothing stronger you won't ask for anything stronger. Verry funny stuff.

    The internet does level the playing field and I have no problem telling a doc he's full of Sh#@ if he starts lying to me. You need to educate yourself and be your own advocate and if a doc is lying tell him you know he is and change docs, I wouldn't keep a doc that lies to me. At this point, he probaly doesn't consider what he said a lie, just a way to dismiss unfounded concerns.

    Hang in there and don't give up on yourself regardless of your injurries and regardless of what a doc says. Just because a doc says you may have pain the rest of your life, doesn't mean his prediction will come true. People do recover even when docs say they can't. The folks here are the 10% that things didn't go right on or surgery failed or didn't respond to conventional treatment.

    There is no reason to think you are part of that percentage that won't recover or that you will have to live with intractable pain "pain that can't be managed without opiates" Why would you think you would be worse off a year from now? Prove the doc wrong if he implied you won't completely recover.
    Take care, Dave

    Last edited by Shoreline; 05-30-2004 at 10:14 AM.

    Old 05-31-2004, 01:42 PM   #3
    Angel a falling
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    Talking Re: Help! I'm new here and just started oxycodone

    thanks for responding Shoreline. my doctor doesn't talk very much at all when i see him. I should look around for a new one who has a little more background in pain management. you sure do know your stuff when it comes to meds. that has been a big help and a big relief to know there are answers out there. hope all goes well with you. take care.

    a falling

    Last edited by Angel a falling; 05-31-2004 at 01:43 PM.

    Old 06-01-2004, 09:24 AM   #4
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    Wink Re: Help! I'm new here and just started oxycodone

    Hey Angel, There is a fairly new medical field called Physiatry, It's physical medicine and rehabilitation. You can find good Physiatrist's and not so good ones, like any specialty. But their purpose is to assist in recovery of more traumatic injuries. Often they also practice pain management of some kind. IT may be worth looking into. Some do hands on manipulation like acupuncture or trigger point injections, chiropractic type adjustments, they also rder the specific typeof therapy they feel will help you the most and just take over for the GP that really isn't trained for rehabilitation.

    There is also more than on physical therapy technique. Some PT's simply surpervise you stretch and excercise, they aren't doing anything you can't do yourself. But some have great hands of methods to really help with myofacial pain, whiplash, Scar management etc. Your recovery is just as important as how gifted your surgeon is as far as mechanically corecting things. The rest is up to you and part of that is finding the right physical therapist and doctor to oversee your recovery.

    You will be flying high again Angel.
    Take care, Dave

    Last edited by Shoreline; 06-01-2004 at 09:30 AM.

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