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  • can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

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    Old 12-29-2004, 10:54 AM   #1
    madhatter
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    can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    I just got a letter from my doc. saying he no longer is handling comp. cases,so to make my transition easier,they referd me to a new doc. who i saw yesterday,we'll,for the past yr and a half,i've been taking oxycotin 40 mg twice a day and 15mg oxycodone i.r every 4 hrs,and nuerotin 800 mg 3x a day for nerve pain,well,when the new doc. looked at my chart,he said"i'm not giving you these,you have to stop taking them! So he wrote a perscription for i.b 800 and just 30 15 mg oxycodone,to take only 2x a day! I told my pharmacist what he said,and the pharmacist said,my god! thats dangerous,he should be weening me off!Whats going to happen to me? I heard things about the nurotin,that if you stop sudden,i could get siesiers.I'm very scared,don't know what to do?

     
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    Old 12-29-2004, 01:19 PM   #2
    konniep
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    Madhatter,
    I posted something similiar to your post a few days ago. I'm going through the same situation! I'm on 40mg of oxycontin 2 times a day and neurontin- 800mg 4 nightly (3200 mg) a day!! ,flexaril- 10mg -4times a day, remeron-45mg once daily, zoloft- 50mg once daily, celebrex -200mg twice daily, and nexium - once daily!! I've been on these meds for over 5 years!!!!!!! And my doc is saying until w/c pays what they owe, he's NOT gonna see me!! I don't see how a doctor can just pull someone off these meds cold turkey!! I just don't know what I'm gonna do! I'll keep you in my prayers and please pray for me!! you can read that post if you want, the subject is "question" God Bless and Happy New Year!! Konnie

     
    Old 12-29-2004, 04:15 PM   #3
    carol632
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    That doctor needs to be told that he is putting you in danger. Make a call to your original doctor and explain what happened; perhaps he will prescribe or at least get you another referral. You cannot stop neurontin cold like that...it is very dangerous. As to the other meds, you are going to have awful withdrawals. What kind of quack (doctor??) did you see? Is he in pain management? If not, perhaps that is the type of doc you need.

    Good luck.

    Carol
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    Old 12-29-2004, 04:28 PM   #4
    konniep
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    Are you talking to madhatter or me? If it's me, I am seeing a pain management dr, been seeing him for 5 and a half years. I won't go into detail cause I've already told it in another post, the subject is "question"........ Yeah, I can't believe he's just gonna stop seeing me and I'll not have any means of getting my meds anymore! There's not anymore pain dr's around here. Please keep me in your prayers!! God Bless!!

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 08:17 AM   #5
    westin4
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    You know this kind of treatment sends a shiver up my spine for all of us? I mean, how can a dr, who obviously knows what you are living with, just decide he doesn't want to do this anymore and just cut you off??? I am so incredibly worried about you both! This can't happen, we live in the USA, who do this idiot dr's think they are? They can't give you these meds on a basis that depends on how they feel! I am so frustrated. Can this happen to any of us at any time? I am going to speak to my dentist very frankly about this issue. At this point I could not walk in and be told that he has decided he is "done". I mean it would kill me mentally and probably physically.,

    Please keep us posted so we know you are ok.


    Karen

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 09:16 AM   #6
    konniep
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    I will keep ya'll posted. I called yesterday to ask if w/c has contacted them about any payment yet and the lady said they haven't heard a word from them. I am frustrated too!! The last time I saw my doc was on the 2nd of December and I am supposed to see him again the first week, at least, in January! So I don't know what I'm gonna do!! Please pray for me!! Thanks so much!! Konnie

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 09:21 AM   #7
    mommy2scl
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    My old oral surgeon, after performing 4 surgeries on my jaw, finally said there was nothing else he could do for me. Besides the 4 surgeries, I did PT, trigger point injections, splints, and massage. None of which worked. He was the one supplying me with my meds. He at least had the decency to keep me supplied with meds until I could get in to see someone else (which is a whole other story). What this doc is doing is just plain unethical. You cannot control what w/c does or does not do and you should not suffer the consequences of their actions. Do you have a lawyer working on your w/c case? THis is just wrong. My current doc made me sign a opiate contract, which says if for any reason he wants to discontinue with me, he will provide me with 30 days of meds and a taper down schedule. That is really how it should be done.

    Mommy

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 09:25 AM   #8
    westin4
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    Mommy,
    You are so right.........I was wondering if there was a contract involved. What happens though say, if your doc wants to discontinue you......and even if he provides you with 30 days worth of meds and a taper schedule..........if you can't get someone else to help you, what then? Back to square one? I fret over this all the time. I guess cause we wait for so long for help that the thought of having it taken away is really devastating.

    Karen

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 09:38 AM   #9
    konniep
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    The only contract I've signed is one where I agree to get my meds filled at 1 pharmacy. I do have an attorney involved. I've called him and he said there's not much he can do as to my doctor seeing me but maybe he doesn't understand the withdrawal symptoms involved with these meds. I am gonna call him again and ask him if my doc at least needs to provide me with a tapering of the meds program. I guess it's about all I can do. I even thought about calling our company nurse and telling her that she needs to contact w/c because if I have withdrawal symptoms and have to be put into rehab that I'm suing them for that too! Maybe that'll get them on there toes......See I can't call w/c cause I have an attorney.....

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 10:52 AM   #10
    Shoreline
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    Hey Mad hatter, this is the time to get an attorney, Personally, I would offer to pay the doc visit for my next refills to carry me over untill it's straightened out, tell him what the new doc did and tell him if he will be responsable for any ill effects from patient abondonment and to expect at least a couple ER charges if it gets nasty if that's what it takes.

    Neurontin is an adjunct seizure med, meaning it's meant to be used in addition to other seizure meds , not as the sole and primary seizure med. I discontinued 1800 mgs in 5 days because I couldn't afford it and it wasn't helping. I just did a quick taper dropping 300 mgs each day. I had no seizure problems.

    If you have ever had a seizure then go to yor primary care doc and run it through your insurance or pay cash, It's better than waiting around to see if you might have a seizure, But I have yet to meet anyone that's had a seizure from stoppng Neurontin and I've read hundreeds of similar posts.

    As far as the pain meds, Your going to be hurting, you wll experience withdrawal, but very few people have ever died from withdrawal. Most deaths are caused by suicide when addicts can't take the constant cycle of abusing and withdrawal and they have so many other issues you don't know why they made a permananet decision during a terrible time that would have passed.

    There is no mechanism that would cause a seizure from discontnuing opiates but if you have high BP you may need something like clonodine to control your BP as not to over stress your heart. Any a bill you aquire and pay cash for now will be reimbursed because comp is supoosed to be paying. I know it's not the time of year where we have extra money around but this is the chilling event many of us fear and try so hard not to make waves as not to cause something like this to happen.

    If I were in your shoes, I would break the 15mg roxi in half, this way you have 4 7.5 mg doses a day, that's about the best you can do with the opiates. It's going to be a rough ride for 10 days, but if your young , healthy and have no history or family history of early cardio vasclar problems it's unlikely you will die, just go through withdrawal.

    I would call him and tall him if he won't except a cash payment from you to be seen and continue your care you will report him to the board of medicine for patient abondonment. It will likely just be a slap on the wrist but there are places other patients can check to see if your doc has ever been in trouble, had his licence suspended and find their history before making an apt. So in the long run, having the patient abondonment charge in his file will come back to haunt him. Patients that research their doc will not go see him and that hits them in the wallett, the only part of a doc where they actually have feeling. Just kidding, Not all docs are jerks.

    Go to th ER when things get bad, they will treat high BP and nausea, but it's unlikely they will supply opiates. I would make a hefty wager you will be OK, as far as not dying or having a seizure from these meds you stopped. But it's wrong!!!

    If you don't have a lawyer you can still talk to your comp insurance rep and explain the situation, If you have a lawyer, the comp rep is not allowed to speak to you in person, everything goes through the lawyer.

    You will not die, you will feel like you are for aout 10 days and slowly adjust to the lower dose. The neurontin shouldn't cause a seizure but if you have enough to do a quick taper that would be the better thing to do.

    [url]http://www.pfizer.com/********/uspi_neurontin.pdf[/url]
    I just read the 27 page full prescribing info on Neurontin and this is what it said

    When used for treating neuralgia "post herpetic"
    Adverse events following the abrupt discontinuation of gabapentin have also been reported.
    Themost frequently reported events were anxiety, insomnia, nausea, pain and sweating.

    If Neurontin dose is reduced, discontinued or substituted with an alternative medication, this should be done gradually over a minimum of 1 week.
    This is the info if it's being used to treat epilepsy
    Withdrawal Precipitated Seizure, Status Epilepticus
    Antiepileptic drugs should not be abruptly discontinued because of the possibility of increasing
    seizure frequency.

    In the placebo-controlled studies in patients >12 years of age, the incidence of status epilepticus
    in patients receiving Neurontin was 0.6% (3 of 543) versus 0.5% in patients receiving placebo
    (2 of 378).
    Among the 2074 patients >12 years of age treated with Neurontin across all studies
    (controlled and uncontrolled) 31 (1.5%) had status epilepticus. Of these, 14 patients had no prior
    history of status epilepticus either before treatment or while on other medications. Because
    adequate historical data are not available, it is impossible to say whether or not treatment with Neurontin is associated with a higher or lower rate of status epilepticus than would be expected
    to occur in a similar population not treated with Neurontin

    Honestly, tapering just sounds more comfortable but not dangerous if your not a seizure patient, Bottom line I would call Pfizer and ask them their opinion before you call the doc, He surely has samples to give to create a 1 week taper.

    Try not to stress, If you need to see your family doc or go to the ER do so, But the rate for seizure after abrupt discontinuation even in seizure patients was 0.6%, those recieving a plecebo had a seizure rate of 0.5% after abrupt discontinuation of a placebo. So you can psych yourself into an adverse event if a Placebo can cause one.

    I read nothing to make me believe you would die or have even a 1% chance of inducing a seizure, but again 0.6% isn't 0.0%

    Hang in there, get on the phone with comp, if there gone, get an attorney, go to your GP or ER if it gets too bad. Neurontin does not bind to any of the Benzo receptors so it's not like stoppping a benzo or opiate or barbituates used to stop seizures.

    Good luck and hang in there. It really amazes me how money can blacken the hearts of so many people.
    Take care, Dave

    Last edited by Shoreline; 12-30-2004 at 11:07 AM.

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 10:54 AM   #11
    mommy2scl
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    Your lazy lawyer should be all over this!! Tell him to get off his butt or you are finding a new lawyer. That is BS that there is not much he can do about the doc. He is just being lazy! He should be crawling up the w/c's butt right about now. I understand your doc wants to get paid - and that is reasonable on his part, and as part of my contract, I can get booted if I get behind on paying my bill. Tell your lawyer to get off his butt and do his job.

    Mommy

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 02:15 PM   #12
    konniep
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    I hear ya!! You're right about my lawyer. It's getting so close to settling now and it's been going on for over 5 years! I'm calling him tomorrow and just telling him that I don't feel like I'm being treated right. Also I thought about telling the doctor that I'm gonna get in on the oxycontin & celebrex suit and see what he does. I had a friend that lost her job and "had" to quit seeing the doc, which just happens to be the same doc I see, and she was on oxycontin and she got in on the oxy suit and her lawyer told her that she would have to sue the doc too and when he found out this, he offered to start back seeing her and she didn't even have insurance!! See, her lawyer told her that she'd have to sue the doc and the makers of oxy in order to have a suit, so when he found out that he may be involved, he offered to start seeing her again if she'd take his name off the suit and she did. She just had to sign a contract that when her disability became effective, that she would pay him. I feel like he may consider keeping on seeing me. I don't know though. I'm so scared of what I'm about to face!!

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 03:58 PM   #13
    mommy2scl
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    Sometimes you just have to get down and dirty. These docs need to learn they are dealing with people's lives and stop being so concerned about their wallets. I know they do need to get paid for their services, but to drop you like that, when he knows he will eventually get paid, is just plain wrong. I would get your lawyer to get off his butt. Everyone, not just CPers know about withdrawal - even if they have not gone through it, they know it exists and is bad and painful. He is doing you a huge disservice by just saying there is nothing he can do.

    Mommy

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 04:17 PM   #14
    konniep
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    Re: can i die?[help shorline!anyone!]

    I really appreciate your concern and advice and I will keep you filled in on the outcome! I pray that you and everyone here have a safe and Happy New Year and please keep me in ya'll's prayers!! God Bless!! Konnie

     
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