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  • Talwin??

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    Old 01-11-2005, 05:03 AM   #1
    ruko4
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    Talwin??

    hey how is everybody? I am doing pretty good with my new meds, oxycontin 50mg tid up from 40mg tid which is helping alot more, and talwin for bt pain which is very good suprisingly!! In the past I have tried demerol, dilaudid, percocet, etc with no relief for bt pain, but talwin works great. Does anybody have any info on talwin and which receptor it works on, is it safe long term? I was reading that it is equivelant to tylenol #4, which makes me wonder how a weaker drug works better than dilaudid 4mg or other stronger meds for bt pain? Anyway gotta run, any replies about this drug would be nice, thanks.
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    Old 01-11-2005, 06:09 AM   #2
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    Re: Talwin??

    Hey Ruko, Talwyn is actually a pretty old drug, I the 70's addicts were injecting this med so the manufacturer put a small amount of Nalaxone, an opiate antagonist. There shouldn't be enough Naloxone to activate when taken orally to cause a problem as far as using an opiate antagonsit with pure opiates like OxyContin. But don't break or crush or chew these pills or capsules because you could then release enough naloxone to purge your system and block your receptors sending you into withdrawal.

    It sounds strange, but the idea was to put just enough opiate antagonist in each pill/capsule that if someone were to try to inject it, the nalaxone would kick in and block receptors, preventing people from getting high. IT actually worked quite well as an anti diversion technique.

    The manufacturers of OxyContin tried to do the same thing when OxyC abuse scare was at it's highest. They worked a few different trials with Oxy NX unfortunately they couldn't find the right ratio of antagonist to put in the stuff to stop abuse and keep the meds effectiveness even when taken as prescribed. SO there attempt failed to produce a tamper proof OxyC and Purdue balked and complained it would take years to redevelop this med. IT was really just a mathmatical equation as to how much antagonist to put into each mg of oxy but too much trial and error and years of more clinical trials when their first attempts failed on an already aproved drug isn't good for the stockholders. So Purdue gave up on the idea and basically stood on the ground that med manufacturers don't kill people, abuse and addiction and mixing drugs for recreaton is what is causing the problem, which I totally agree with.

    If you take Talwyn NX as prescribed orally, there shouldn't be enough opiate antagonist to create a problem as far as withdrawal, but the first dose could be interesting for some folks.

    A lot of the new PM research has gone this route, as far as mixing opiate agonist and antagonist. Stadol is a potent med and also a mixed agonsist/antagonist, meaning it has both pure opiate properties and binds to opiate recepts and opiate antagonist properties that block other selective receptors. Not all opiate receptors create anelgesia, some create more euphoria and the idea is to block those receptors and have a med that binds to the MU receptor which is the major anelgesic receptor.

    Earlier this week someone was concerned about using Suboxone for pain, after reading about it's other use as a detox med. Suboxone is just Buprenex and naloxone, another mixed agonist /antagonist. when they do detox wtith Bup or subutex the next step is take a pure antagonist to prevent further abuse, but you have to have a patient willing to take a med that's going to prevent them from gettng high on opiates, similar to the idea of an alcoholic taking ant-abuse. It takes willingness and compliance for someone to take antibuse or subutex which is just straight Naloxone. A pure antagonist

    The brand name for Naloxone is Narcan, which is used to reverse opiate OD. It works in the same manner by purging and blocking opiate receptors, it can snap someone right out of an OD so these meds need to be used carefully among already physically dependent patients. But the idea is that oral Naloxone doesn't have the strength and same effect as IV naloxone. Combination opiates do provide relief as you found with Talwyn NX and others have found with Stadol and Nubain.

    Individual response will varry, so I wouldn't recomend everyone run to their doc and ask to try Talwyn NX because there will still be incedents where proper use can cause withdrawal.

    Nubain is another combination drug and was given to me after a my MI and cardiac cath, within 15 minutes of recieving the injectin I was in full blown withdrawal in the CCICU ward and the nurses, the hospitalist and the cardiologist had no idea what to do and called my PM doc who basically had them sedate me, whcich wasn't easy or pleaseant..

    But your living proof that the combination meds do work and shouldn't be feared if used corectly.
    Good luck, Dave

     
    Old 01-11-2005, 06:58 AM   #3
    ruko4
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    Re: Talwin??

    thanks for the info dave. I was looking in the canadian cps and it said nothing about the talwin I am taking ahving any naloxone in it, it is just called talwin and not talwin nx, so I think it might be talwin without the naloxone. Do they make talwin without the naloxone?
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