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    Old 01-24-2005, 12:10 PM   #1
    SpinalMalady
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    Question Does anyone Know What this Drug is??

    The name of the drug is TALACEN

    I've looked it up, and I see that it's a narcotic....but I get an alternate name for it as Talwin...and I just don't know if that's right. I'm 6 weeks post-op, and while I am still experiencing a lot of Nerve pain (and not really sure if I have re-injured myself or not)...I was under the impression that Talwain was a major heavy duty pain drug, and I don't want to be taking something so strong at this point. If anyone has any info on this drug, I'd appreciate it...I've got a call in to the doctor...but it took from Friday to today to get it called in...so I'm not looking for a call back today.

    Shoreline, do you know??? O Wise One....?? Thanks for any help, I'd like some relief...but geez, I don't want to be leveled. Post surgery the strongest med I had was Lortab 10. So I'm confused and Puzzled. My doc is very opiate scared, so I can't imagine him giving me something that I thought was so strong....or am I just wrong about Talwin??? Or wrong about this Talacen being the same as Talwin?? Help please.

    Thanks again.

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    Old 01-24-2005, 02:39 PM   #2
    Shoreline
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    Re: Does anyone Know What this Drug is??

    Hey BG, I can tell you what Talwyn is, Are you in canada,? The differences in name may simpply be the difference between countries. Talacen/Talwyn in the US was widely abused by IV users back in the 70's, It was actually mixed with a stmulant that was readily available to create a speedball. Up and down combination for those that like to sit and drool.LOL

    Anyway, In the US it was such a problem and Talwyn is so easily converted into injectable material, the FDA said something has to be done. So that some thing was a little bit of Nalaxone mixed in with each capsule, now called Talwyn NX, Not enough to interfere with the anelgesic action if swallowed as it should be , but enough of the potent opiate antagonist to make the injection brew useless.
    Naloxone is the same thing as "Narcan" a potent opiate antagonist that will snap an Over-dose out of a coma in a heart beat. It blocks and purges opiate receptors.

    If you are outside the US you may still be able to get plain "PENTAZOCINE" which is the synthetic opiate similar in strenght to DiHydrocodone depending on the amount you take.
    The Talwyn NX in the states is relatively week and with the naltrexone in it, it's just not used very often anymore. The strength it comes in would compare more to dosages of tylenol and codeine, 60 or so mgs of codeine per dose. If your In Canada, You may be getting the plain Pantazocine which is a potent opiate without the naltrexone. Similar to pure Hydrocodone but easily turned injectable without the apap in it.

    It's a drug that most opiate dependent chronic pain patients should try to avoid. Other combination opiate antagonist would be like Nubain used in hospitals during deliver all the time. Stadol NS, a very potent nasal spray containing "Butorphanol tartrate, a synthetically derived opioid agonist-antagonist analgesic. All of which could cause potential withdrawal in an dependent patient.

    The antagonist part basically puts a cap on the ceiling a mixed agonist/antagonists has, as far as pain relief and possible euphoria. Although stadol is quite potent and often very efffective for migraines it could potentially send an opiate dependent patient into withdrawal. Some of the new drugs coming out like Subutex are also mixed agonist/antagonist to prevent diversion and increase their effectiveness in a particular way. But still limited by the antagonist.

    When I first read Tolacan, I was thinking you mis spelled Tolectin, an old NSAID but if you found info linking it to Talwyn, it's a combination opiate agonist /antagonist wtith the Naltrexone and a fairly strong pain killer without the naltrexone and without a ceiling created by the antagonist.
    Talwyn NX binds to some receptors and blocks others that cause respirory sedation and euphoria.

    Be cautious with your first dose if you have been on opiates for a while, start with as little as possible and see how you respond. It's fallen so out of use, that all docs wouldn't be familiar with the stuff.

    I hope this is a sign surgery went well and your feeling better and ready to step down on the pain meds, that would be great, How are you doing ?
    Hope your doing well
    Dave

    Last edited by Shoreline; 01-25-2005 at 05:34 AM. Reason: sorry about typos, rushing again.LOL

     
    Old 01-25-2005, 08:58 PM   #3
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    Re: Does anyone Know What this Drug is??

    A search on google turned up this-
    http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Talacen_Caplets.html
    Hope this helps,
    El

     
    Old 01-25-2005, 09:16 PM   #4
    violaa
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    Re: Does anyone Know What this Drug is??

    i have alot of nearve pain i know talwin didnt touch it so they put me on loritab 10 it helps alot i have md

     
    Old 01-26-2005, 05:42 AM   #5
    Shoreline
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    Re: Does anyone Know What this Drug is??

    Thanks for the link Ellen, I didn't know if this was new or Canadian med, But it is a New combination of 25mgs of PENTAZOCINE and 650 of apap available in the US. Not enough Talwyn and too much apap to make it interesting to IV drug abusers. So abuse will be limited by the large amount of apap in each capsule. With 650 mgs per capsule it pretty much limits the dose to one tablet every 4 hours or exceed the recomaneded apap dosage. So your still looking at a med in the codeine range as far as strength.
    Ya learn something new everyday. I think docs like prescribing meds we have never heard of , that way they have the upper hand and we can't balk.
    Let us know how it works.
    Take care, Dave

    Last edited by Shoreline; 01-26-2005 at 06:17 AM.

     
    Old 01-26-2005, 06:25 AM   #6
    SpinalMalady
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    Thumbs down Re: Does anyone Know What this Drug is??

    Hello Dave, and all:

    Well first let me say thanks for the info help. Ya'll have really helped a lot. I had a "DUH" moment when I realized that the doctor called it in, so the med couldn't have been as "wow wee" as I was scared it would be. Matter of fact, it really does not help at all. Can't even notice a narc effect at all, so needless to say, it's not helping the pain any, and it's really odd what it's doing to my tummy....makes me feel like I'm four months pregnant and there's a baby in there kicking me....So I'm calling the doc back today to see if I can move my appt. from the 1st to today for the follow up. I was up most of last night in pain, and I just don't want to go down this road again. I don't know if it's because I'm off all pain meds (before asking for help with this one) and so before I was masking any type of pain I may have had...or this is something new, or if this is just typical nerve recovery, but any which way I look at it...I'm a little freaked and don't like it. The pain, or the idea of re-injury, or the idea of an unsuccessfull surgery are just not options I'm ready to face right now. I'm really bummed, and frankly getting more bummed as I write...so I'll close this book and move on to more positive notes. Sorry for the downer post....

    Take care...and thanks again.


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    Old 01-26-2005, 08:12 AM   #7
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    Re: Does anyone Know What this Drug is??

    Hey BG, Set backs after surgery really aren't uncommon, Nerve damage can regenerate and just takes some time. If you had a bulging disc pressing on a nerve for a while, it may not be imedietely reieved by surgery. The impingment may be relieved but you would likely still have some swelling around the incision site that could still be causing some of the strange sensations.

    Is the nerve pain exactly the same as before or in some way diifferent. If it's different, It may simply take some time depending on how long the nerve was being impinged and how long it took to have it fixed. The longer you put it off the longer it will probably take to make a full recovery.

    Try not to catasthophize, and think the worst has happened. Discontinung the opiates will certainly change the way the pain feels, you are right that while being masked by opiates you may not have been aware of the residual damage, but discontinuing the meds is how the assess the remaining damage with a clear head and nothing masking what's going on.

    PT will help, scar management can help, Myofacial release can help. All PT is not the same. Each one of these techniques was used in a sequence, Insurance doesn't like paying for PT for the same thing for prolonged periods, they want to see improvements and when you plateau from a particluar method, they can usually get you back in to try something different, like scar management or Myo release. It would be pretty strange if they did everything they possibly could during 8-10 weeks of the first round of PT.

    The first round is meant to help get range of motion back, strenghten the muscles you haven't been using and strenghthen the area that was operated on. But one round of PT is likely just that, the first round. Don't sweat things yet. Even something like an ESI may be more effective now, where prior to surgery an ESI wouldn't really reduce an impingment. There are still lots of options besides having to face a life of pain, don't let one doc or surgeon do this to you."put it in your head that what you feel now is permannent. Or the only reason your hurting is because you body is craving opiates. Surgeons would much sooner call you an addict than admit there was a problem with surgery. So even if you don't like how the apt. goes, remmber It's just one docs opinion.
    Good luck, Dave

    Last edited by Shoreline; 01-26-2005 at 08:46 AM.

     
    Old 01-26-2005, 02:17 PM   #8
    SpinalMalady
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    Thumbs up Re: Does anyone Know What this Drug is??


    Thanks for the reply Dave, that did make me feel better. The pain is a little different, in that it's not the same as when I had the surgery, it's the same as when the problem actually began. My problems began in June with just a dull ache in the right leg, and buttock area...enough to be a pain in the butt though...LOL. The pain went full blown in August, and by September, I could not walk. I had a terrible case of footdrop...and walked like a stoke victim. The pain was intense 24/7, and by October I was mostly in a wheechair while teaching College, and November 12, I had the ONLY ESI which gave me only about 20% relief...but was enough to get me to December 10th which was when I had the Surgery.

    I was on Percocet 10/325 4 times a day from Sept - Dec, plus Valium and Elavil to help sleep (which didn't) and once I had the surgery, the Neurosurgeon backed me down to Lortab 10 on week 1, week 2 I took Lortab 7.5, and week 3 I took Lortab 5. All of the pain meds were one tab 4X a day. I have been off all pain meds since week three. This is week seven post op, so I've been off everything since then, so I don't think it's a matter of abstinence, though I do have to say this new drug is like taking an aspirin...

    More than anything right now I just think I'm overdoing. I'm back at work full swing...even though I was only going to work half days, it's tough when you're the only teacher in a specialized field like I teach (Sign Language). I got PROACTIVE last night and joined the YMCA with Hubby and we got in the hottub, which was ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmazing.... LOL. I can use the olympic pool also, and when and if leg feels better, I can use the weight room too. So, I think I'll be okay....I just have those "ghost echos" of nerve pain...which could really be a good sign I guess...maybe the nerve is on its way to getting better.

    But as you know Pain Sucks, sleepless nights suck, and worrying sucks too. But I'll make the best of whatever comes my way, knowing I tried my darndest to do what I could to get this thing well. I've lost 70 pounds in the process...a VERY good thing, but very costly when you have to buy Professional Clothes every few weeks...LOL.

    Thanks for being Positive. I honestly don't know how you do it sometimes, and find myself ashamed when I see the horrible road you've been down. You ROCK Dude!

    Take care. Feel Good!


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