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Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!


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Old 09-17-2005, 09:14 PM   #1
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Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!

OK, TOPIC CONFIRMED

SANDOZ IS NOT......THE SAME AS DURAGESIC AND THIS IS WHY, EXPLAINED TO ME BY MY PM DOCTOR and A PHARMICIST THAT I NEVER USED.

When they make the generic with the same exact ingredients, they are mixed differently, or as they say cooked differently. So that would change the molucular structure of the drug including the effect of the drug itself. So then, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also when to the FDA web site and read all the drugs that the generic is told to the public NOT to TAKE in replacement of the name brand. Such as many heart medications. They have to post that because a heart patient can have a heart attack and die but a person in pain just will endure More damm friggin pain. And yes, now I am very ****** off. I have suffered for almost 9 weeks now wondering why my pain levels were off the roof, why I have severe dry mouth, cant eat and lost 12 pounds. Sick everday because I was lied to by my insurance co. THAT said they are the same. They are just trying to save money and dont give a crap about anything else. And coencidently, Now I might have RSD. Since taking these sandoz pity patches I have been having problems with my sensory nerves. I cant wear socks, touch toilet paper, carboard, paper towels, thick towels or wear my soft velour slippers as I want to chop off my feet and hands from the sensation it gives me. I cant explain it but if you have RSD you will understand what I am talking about. And this all started the same time I was given these crappy patches. So I will be posting this topic around the interent to let everyone know the true facts. My PM doctor said he would help me with the medical terms etc..... so I dont sound like a moron and people would understand how it works ( I sure didn't).
I guess some poeple can take the generic and have no reactions but for people like me, It is just not FAIR.

Hugs
Lori

I also just read a post about the sandoz not sticking, well that is correct. I put 2 band aids on to keep them in place. The duragesic I never have a sticking problem.
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Old 09-18-2005, 12:07 PM   #2
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Re: Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!

Hi all,

All I can say is that they are manufactured by the same company and then sold to Janseen pharmaceuticals (Duragesic) and to Sandoz pharmaceuticals. I still have old Duragesic boxes laying around and the patient info that comes with both brands are word for word the same. They just substitute the word Duragesic for Fentanyl Tansdermal System. The drug ingredients are listed word for word the same, in the same order, on both boxes. I'm sorry you are having such a rough time, really, I am. I have always received brand name drugs in the past because some generics really do suck. With brand name Duragesic and the Sandoz generic, I can't tell a difference, but that's just my experience. I've always had problems with them sticking (doesn't matter if brand or generic) so I have to use overlays.

I must say, I do agree with you on generic drugs, I don't care for them (especially the Mylan generic fentanyl patch...very bad experience!) I realize people are different and react different to certain products. I would still buy brand name Duragesic, but my new insurance company will make me pay the difference between the two...very expensive. If Mylan was the only option, then I would pay the difference. Luckily, for me, Sandoz is available.

Do you have any breakthrough meds to help you until you can get next month's supply of Duragesic? I had to live on mine (and still didn't get real pain relief) while on the Mylan patch for the month. It was a bad experience for me and my family. I was not underestimating your experience with the Sandoz brand....just stating what is obvious to me and a lot of other people. I realize there are people who will agree with me AND disagree with me. So please read this carefully....In my opinion, they are the same. The only thing different I see is that there is no Duragesic "stamp" on the patch.

I hope you feel better soon!

 
Old 09-18-2005, 12:16 PM   #3
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Re: Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!

Well, I saw a big difference when one of them I could get in a time release formula that lasted all day (was flat) and the other was a blob full of crap that if it got popped the medicine would leak out!!! I was very used to the time released version--which is NOT available in the generic.

 
Old 09-18-2005, 12:24 PM   #4
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Re: Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!

All the fentanyl patches are time released. The Mylan patch is flat and looks like a nicotine patch and is crap! Some clarification please.....Mylan (generic) is flat. Duragesic and Sandoz have the reservoir system (the blob).

Word for word on Duragesic and Sandoz brand prescribing info...

"The molecular weight of fentanyl base is 336.5, and the empirical formula is C22 H28 N2 O. The n-octanol:water partition coefficient is 860:1. The active component of the system is fentanyl. The remaining components are pharmacologically inactive. Less than 0.2 ml of alcohol is also released from the system during use."

It was mentioned that in the generics, the molecular structure of the drug is different because it was mixed different. If the molecular structure is changed (fentanyl), then it would no longer be fentanyl.

The bottom line is...patients need to be informed of all aspects of their care and USE what works for them.

Last edited by friendly_one; 09-18-2005 at 02:08 PM.

 
Old 09-18-2005, 05:42 PM   #5
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Re: Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!

Hi Keystone,
You are 100% correct in what you wrote. What the box doesn't tell us is this: When they cook the ingredients the use the same exact amount, in the same exact order BUT the cooking time is shortened on some or all of the ingredients to mass produce the drug.
I have to call my PM dr. in the AM and I will ask him the "correct" way to explain this. All I know is that they are not the same. If they were they would work the same way as the duragesic and they dont.

My PM mailed out a new rx for the duragesic on Thursday and I still didnt get them in the mail yet. Hopefully tomorrow!!! I am taking my oxycodone's 2-3 every 4-6 hours and they are just not working. I am in so much pain right now I am going out of my head. Valium's are next.........

Thanks
Lori
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Old 09-19-2005, 12:21 AM   #6
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Re: Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!

Sorry lori, Fentanyl is fentanyl, they aren't cooked any diffferent. All 3 companies likely buy bulk Fent from the same manaufacturer, likely mallinkrodt, one of the few bulk producers in the US.
Your docs are feeding you a line because they don't understand the difference between generic and name brand. But Fentanyl is fentanyl, there may be other binders, fillers, release system but even the fentanyl in the mylan patch or the aqtiq pops are all the same.

That's one of the silliest things I hav heard a doc say in a while, and whose going to question a doc since they are always right? The doc and RpH must of thought that one up in the microbus smoking a fatty while they skipped chem 101. LOL

When it comes to the generic it's the amount of the drug that's questionable, that's why it's so important for heart patients and transplant patient to stick to name brand.

Here is an article from the american heart asociation that explains the differences allowed by the FDA a little better than some phooey about the way it's cooked changing the molecular structure. As pointed out, if it was somehow changed in the pruduction to final product, it would no longer be fentanyl. It's the amount of active ingredient that varries from name brand to generic but is still considered exceptable.

This article explains what equivalent actually means and how important it is to be truly equivalent. It discuses how the generics have ranges that are expectable parameters that don't create a large enough change in serum levels to be clinically significant. However anyone can be very sen****ve to even the slighest change and even the slightest diffence in serum levels could mean the difference between an organ being rejected and a transplant being succesful or any drug simply not being as effective at whatever a drugs purpose is.

[url]http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3015266[/url]

Approval of a generic version of a proprietary drug by the FDA requires demonstration of “chemical equivalence” (similar quantities and availability of the active ingredient in proprietary and generic formulations), and “bioequivalence” (defined by absorption parameters generally falling between 80% and 125% of those obtained with the proprietary agent under the same testing conditions) (2) The use of the –20%/+25% rule is based on a regulatory decision that for most drugs that difference in concentration of the active ingredient in blood will not be clinically significant.
End.


There are parameters for generic testing against the proprietary drug "name brand". The scary thing is, there are no clinical trials or comparison from one generic to the other, just comparison to the proprietary drug. So if one generic company is at the top of the parameter and using +25% and the other is at the bottom using -20% then your talking about a 45% variation..

Hope you consider the American heart association an accurate source and the number of docs that can't even explain the difference betweeen generic and proprietary drug is exemplified by your doc and the pharmacist.
Take care, Dave

Last edited by Shoreline; 09-19-2005 at 12:46 AM.

 
Old 09-20-2005, 06:40 PM   #7
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Re: Duragesic And Sandoz. Confirmed Not The Same!!!

Dave,
Thank you so much for clarifying that info for me. Now I feel like a jerk!!!! But then again..... A doctor and a pharmicist told me this. I will read into your post and let it sink for a while. I haven't taken a chem class since 1982 and need a refresher on this one if I want to be able to explain it.

Thanks again
Lori
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