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    Old 09-28-2005, 06:12 PM   #1
    Amsterdam
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    Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    First of all, I'm greatful for this site. I've been reading it for awhile, lots of good help on here. I am in a tough situation right now, looking for any possible advice.

    I have been on OC 20mg TID for almost a couple years now. Since OC has become available in generic, I have always paid the extra $20 to get name brand because I always forgot to ask the doc to write DAW.

    Anyways, at the pharmacy yesterday I turned in the script. It was a different person and they didn't say anything about giving me the generic initially. Once they rang me up, they handed me the bag and said, oh ya its generic. They were busy and I felt kinda nervous with others standing there while they were talking outloud in front of others about my OC script. I said that I had been paying extra for the brand name, and they said this is the same exact thing. Well, I was still hesistant to take it and said if I have a problem will I be able to bring it back? They said no. Since there were others waiting, I just took it and walked out.

    I realized that there was going to be a major problem within a few hours. Today, its gotten worse and I am getting the flu like symptoms and major migraine headaches. My pain is out of control and I am getting major panic attacks. I take Xanax .5mg QID as well.

    I called the pharmacy and told them the situation. They said since there was no DAW written, they filled it according to their insurance procedures. To them, it was filled correctly and couldn't be returned. The only option according to them is to get another script from the doc with DAW written on it. Will this be possible, I have the full script minus the two days that I have taken that I can bring back to the doctors office, but what about the insurance? Is there any chance this can get changed out?

    It feels like I'm in withdrawl, and any help would be greatly appreciated. I have never felt so terrible while taking any medication. This is beyond being without pain control, which is something I'm used to.... this medication is making me sick, literally.

     
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    Old 09-28-2005, 08:03 PM   #2
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Well, I just returned from Walgreens to make another attempt at getting this resolved.

    I spoke with the same person that I had talked to over the phone. The pharmacy manager was not in, and won't be in until Friday. I was told that I needed to get the DAW script from the doc’s office, and that would be the only way anything could be done. I would bring the new DAW script in with the remainder of the generic pills, and a phone call could be placed with the insurance in an attempt to do an override. In the event that insurance doesn't cover it, I'd hope that I could pay cash since the generics can't be returned to stock. If I could manage to make it through the month, I certainly would to avoid any type of "problems" in the system where CII meds are closely monitored. I'm not sure how the system works, but I don't want to start throwing flags if that kind of thing happens, this is simply a bad reaction to a drug my body is very dependant on.

    The pharmacist said to offer the generic OC to the doctor’s office in exchange for the new script. I just can't believe the FDA considers this crap even resembles OxyC, more like Darvocet ER instead of Oxycodone ER.

    I also spoke to a pharmacist friend and their thoughts were nothing could be done, and it’s against state law to accept any kind of return on meds. I can understand that Walgreens probably couldn't put them back on the shelf, but it shouldn't be too uncommon a situation, that a generic substitute caused severe side-effects requiring the replacement with the brand.

    I don't know if there is a procedure that one could report such issues about this Endo product, but I'd be willing to put my .02 in, FWIW. I think we as consumers should know of these problems, to make a note of it for future reference. If anyone else has experienced problems with this med, is there a procedure in which these complaints could be organized and presented to the FDA to investigate the problem?

    These big corporations need to get exposed for what they are, especially when they make a generic which is supposed to "save" money and its price difference is $.25/pill.

    Something that also just occurred to me while writing this. Maybe this script of generic could have been a bad batch? I wouldn't be surprised as taking a couple 10mg hydro completely eliminates my flu-like symptoms, which unfortunately only lasts a couple hours but it reinforces that the Endo OC is less efficacious than OxyC.

    Last edited by Amsterdam; 09-28-2005 at 08:36 PM.

     
    Old 09-29-2005, 12:10 AM   #3
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Heey Amsterdam, The sad thing is that Pharmacist recieve a bonus based on their generic to name brand ercentage because the profit margin ois so much greater on genrrics, you may only be saving 25 cent s a pill but I would bet the wholesale price ?pharamcies cost" n generics is about half that of name brand.

    I'm aware of the generic bonus situation because my wife was a manger for Rite aid, Eckerds and Revco before they were split up and every company paid their pharmacist a bonus for maintaining a high percentage of generic sales. So they tell everyone geenerics are the exact same which is an absolye lie. IF they had a transplant or needed a heart med they wouldn't take a generic out of the store if it was the only Pharmacy for for 50 miles.

    This article explains the generic problem and exactly what the FDA considers
    bio equivelant.
    [url]http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3015266[/url]

    Approval of a generic version of a proprietary drug by the FDA requires demonstration of “chemical equivalence” (similar quantities and availability of the active ingredient in proprietary and generic formulations), and “bioequivalence” (defined by absorption parameters generally falling between 80% and 125% of those obtained with the proprietary agent under the same testing conditions) (2) The use of the –20%/+25% rule is based on a regulatory decision that for most drugs that difference in concentration of the active ingredient in blood will not be clinically significant.
    ....................................

    I've experienced severe withdrawal twice from Mallinkrodts version of methadone called Methadose. Now I won't use any of their products. I have also made complaints to the FDA, ya know how my complaint was handled. It was forwarded to mallinkrodt for them to investigate the problem themself. I got a standard letter stating that all Mallinkrodts products meet or exceed the FDA guidlines and recieved the highest rating for standard equivelance by the FDA, Unfortunately, most people don't know what equivelance actually means.

    I don't mean to imply that all generics are inferior, but they don't use generic Cumadin for a reason, They don't use generic anti rejection drugs for a reason and many other heart meds where a 20% variation may mean the diffence between life and death or rejection or succcess in a transplant patient. The FDA allow them to skimp 20% on avtice ingredient and to think there aren't companies that do would be a little naive. What's the easiest way to boost profits in the generic biz, Only put 8 mgs of active ingredient in a 10 mg pill and produce 20% more inferior pills with their bulk active ingredient.

    You may be stuck, I don't see where many script Insurance companies wil pay for a second script of the "same" med in the same month, but paying cash for a second script at the same or different pharmacy may bring unwanted attn to your doc if he does replace the remaining generics wil a new script. Every Class 2 script is reported by the pharmacy that fills it to your state board of pharnmacy and the DEA. Your doc would have to do some explaning if he's questioned and no doc wants to be questioned by the DEA even if they can back their actions and reasoning and prove you turned in the unused meds for a new script for name brand. It depends on your docs stones and knowledge of generics. But acoding to this article only 20% of docs even know there is a difference and what that difference is.

    I was fortunae enough that my pharmacist did take back the mallinkrodt Methadose and replaced it with Roxxane methadone which I had been taking for years and was very used to the dose I was getting. I wouldn't give up unless you have talked to the pharmacy manager, IF they have had enough complaints he may swap them and return them t the manufacturer as damaged. IN my case with methadose the pharmacist was well aware many poeople wouldn't except the mallinkrodt brand. .

    There are parameters for generic testing against the proprietary drug "name brand". The scary thing is, there is no testing or comparison from one generic to the other, just comparison to the proprietary drug. So if one generic company is at the top of the parameter and using +25% and the other is at the bottom using -20% then your talking about a 45% variation from one gneric to the other.
    THe good news is you will adjust to a 20% or so variation as far as withdrawal in about a week but the rest of the month will be a bear pain wise.
    Good luck and let us know how things turn out.
    Take care, Dave

     
    Old 09-29-2005, 05:41 AM   #4
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Unfortunetly,shore is right.my son went through the horror of the 'generic equivavlent" crap with prednisone.he is a Tx recipient and was given a different generic pred than the one he was actually stabilized on while still in the hosp post transplant.he actually went into rejection because the current pred he was on did not contain the exact amount that his body was used to and the immunosuppression just stopped and his liver became inflammed and started to become'identified' and we went to the hosp and it took many nasty steriods and med adjustments over a two weeks time just because of the generic equiv was not equal.This was my first intro to the world of generic equivalents.this really should be an illegal practice in my mind,god, we almost lost our son because of this.what a bunch of crap.

    i have had the same exact problems with the oxy ER that you are currently having.i don't know just what the heck the problem is either.it is possible that the delivery system that is not the same as purdues is the problem or they just decided to save some money and go to the line of what would be considered the 'equivalent".unfortunetly you may have to just tough this month out somehow as your recourse in this situation does not sound too hopeful.I actually had my normal meds filled yesterday and despite the fact that my Rx had DAW written on it,when I came home from the pharm i opened the bottle to fill my med tray and wouldn't you know, the pharm screwed up and gave the crap from Endo.God my heart sank.

    i had talked with my NP at my pain clinic after the first time I was actually switched from Purdues OC to Endos about the nausea and the fact that it was not even touching the pain at all really,and since my normal dose is to take three 20s at a time(nine per day,3 every8 hours)i really lost alot more of the actual oxy than i would have if i was only taking one pill(ya know what i mean?)my NP had agreed to write the DAW on all my rxs of the oxy but when I call in every single request i have to state the DAW be on the OC Rx just incase they happen to have forgotten.there is no way that i will put myself through the hell that i did when this first happened.Unfortunetly I had to just tough out that two weeks on the endo crap til my next fill(I have to get my C IIs filled every two weeks instead of monthly for a couple of reasons)but when i saw that crap again yesterday I grabbed the bottle and the paperwork and went back to my pharm which also happens to be a walgreens,and told the pharm that she made a mistake and gave me the endo instead of the purdue.she looked up my script and the noticed the DAW was indeed on it and took the endo junk back and gave me my purdue brand.i mean at that point,she HAD to as it WAS indeed not what my doc had written.i also have a very high level of trust with this pharm as i am there like three times per week between all my meds and some of my sons non transplant meds(we get his Tx meds from the pharm where he had his Tx done now so there have been NO more mistakes there)but when i saw that crap in the bottle when I first brought it home,god, i actually felt this wave of nausea come over me just at the thought of actually having to take that crap again.nasty stuff.
    how do you normally request your meds for the month?Do you call in a request for the Rxs to be written and then picked up or sent to your pharm or do you have to see your doc to get them?just curious as I call my requests on their answering machine and i always have a piece of paper on the counter that says in big letters 'don't forget DAW"or i know I would forget and then suffer .i really do think that you may be stuck here unfortunetly unless you can work something out with your doc.i mean people have reactions to certain meds all the time that have to be changed out.I really would just love to know what the problem is with this crap.i do know that the delivery system is not the same as purdues,for one,the endo pills are much bigger and they actually desolve.Don't know if you have ever noticed this but the purdue brand oxys will show up when you have a BM,sorry to be gross here really.i noticed it one day but i am taking nine pills per day so it is much more likely that I would notice i guess.I actually called my PM clinic after the first time that occured as i really did think that there was something wrong with my liver or something and the pills were not breaking down because of it but was told by the nurse that they are called "ghost matrix's" left behind after the pill has released its contents.it is just the shell of the delivery system.soo, there could be something that this new delivery system has in it that was the delivery system that is causing the actual nausea issues.and the lack of pain control could just be endos way of saving some bucks and only putting in the minimum requirement of actual oxy.There definitely IS a big problem with this particular brand of generic OC that does not really seem to the same as the other generic OCs.i have not heard anything bad said about any of the other generics,only the endo version,and from many different people on the net and people that I know who have been switched to the endo after being on the purdue brand.

    I hope you can work this out some way and wont have to suffer for too much longer.I think if you tell your doc that something is really wrong and that you are actually experiencing some sort of WD syndrome here because of it, that may help you.Just a thought,sorry to have rambled,lol.good luck to you.Marcia
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    Old 09-29-2005, 06:53 AM   #5
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Pharmacies can and will switch drugs if they wanted too although class 11 meds shouldnt be returned to stock by law.

    last year i was mistakenly given roxicodone 5mg instead of my 15 mg.i called the pharmacy the next day because i felt horrible and noticed the pills were different.
    this was about the same time that generic roxicodone hit the market and the pharmacist told me it was generic but the right meds,.

    after a few days i was in such pain and horribly moody.my wife was ready to throw me out of the house and i remember trying to explain the terrible restless aching in my legs and that the meds were just not helping at all.

    well,the next day i was checking the fda website and could not find the pills i recieved in 15mg stregnth.
    shoreline confirmed what i recieved was indeed 5mg.

    so i had been through a week of some nasty stuff and called the pharmacist who apologized over and over and swapped the pills for the Full rx.

    im sure they put them back in stock and sold em'

    hope all works out,hang in there amsterdam, scotty

     
    Old 09-29-2005, 09:20 AM   #6
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    You's are so right! Last month my pharmacist told me to tell my doc. to stop writing d.a.w in the box,becuase theres generic now. At the time,i didn't think it was a big difference,boy was i wrong.

     
    Old 09-29-2005, 09:45 AM   #7
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    My doc is gone on vacation, and the pharmacy is currently trying to contact the doctor filling in for him.

    I have my doubts that I will get this resolved, but I just feel terrible and sick. This med is nothing like the brand, its almost like being on a really bad antidepressent like Paxil or something.

    I appreciate the replys, as it helps to hear someone knows what I'm going through. Its going to be a rough month.

    I just can't understand why the pharmacy can't just take them back as defects because that has to happen from time to time.

     
    Old 09-29-2005, 01:32 PM   #8
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    This is bad. I am not having any luck and I'm feeling worse. The pharmacy called the "on call" doc and they said he is only seeing ER patients. I told them that's probably where I'll be tomorrow anyway.

    This is worse than running out because this generic actually makes me sick.

    The pharmacy manager won't be in until tomorrow afternoon, and I have a feeling I could end up going to jail fighting over this with them. The pharmacy says its against state law to accept any return or exchange of a CII. That's BS because they would have had to if it was their mistake and the script read DAW.

    I will probably take a printout of this and the other thread about the generics for them to read.

    I should not be forced to take something that makes me sick because they can't resell it.

    How do you spell CA lawsuit?
    ...... E-N-D-O

    I am at a serious point in my life and have some very important things to deal with, the timing of this happening couldn't have been worse.

     
    Old 09-29-2005, 09:26 PM   #9
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Just a suggestion, do you have the bottle from lasst month so you can show that you have in the past used the name brand? Or ask for a Year to Date print Out of your Prescription Purchases. That will provide a record that you ALWAYS get the name brand and that their filling it with a generic without asking first was (at a minimimum) very poor customer service. Is this a chain (Walmart, Osco, etc??) if so, CALL the customer service # or the owner... RAISE SOME heck !! I'm really surprised that they wouldn't fix it since you brought up the error while still standing at the cash register???I would take it to the next layer of authority (easy for me to say, I know... I have my meds... but don't let them get away with it!!)

    Take care and know you are being thought of,

    Michelle
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    Old 09-30-2005, 09:31 AM   #10
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Quote:
    Just a suggestion, do you have the bottle from lasst month so you can show that you have in the past used the name brand? Or ask for a Year to Date print Out of your Prescription Purchases. That will provide a record that you ALWAYS get the name brand and that their filling it with a generic without asking first was (at a minimimum) very poor customer service. Is this a chain (Walmart, Osco, etc??) if so, CALL the customer service # or the owner... RAISE SOME heck !! I'm really surprised that they wouldn't fix it since you brought up the error while still standing at the cash register???I would take it to the next layer of authority (easy for me to say, I know... I have my meds... but don't let them get away with it!!)

    Take care and know you are being thought of,

    Michelle
    I have the bottle, and I'll tell them to look at the previous prescriptions. Thanks for sharing some ideas. Its all going to come down to their decision. I should have never signed for the generic, period. I have sooo much to deal with.. buying a house , selling a house, running a business, going to school and working full time. I don't know what I'd do if kids were involved. Maybe I need to think about that for awhile. I know my medication gives me a better quality of life when I'm not dealing with these types of problems, but the more I need the meds the more these types of problems seem to happen.

    I'm waiting for the pharmacy manager to come in at 3:00PM. I will be at work at that time, so it'll be over the phone. I would rather be there in person, but my job and income comes first.

    So while I'm sitting in pain, exhausted every option I can think of except going to the ER, which probably wouldn't do anything anyway. I highly doubt any ER doc is going to write a script for OC without taking the ENDO in exchange, and I doubt the insurance is going to allow a new script 3 days after one was filled.

    I am starting to stress out about this OxyC medication, because what I'm taking now is so completely different. I would never be in this much pain or be experiencing some of the withdrawls I'm having, not to mention the headaches and sick feeling. The generic can't be that far off, but I could probably get more relief from a 5mg hydro right now. This is somewhat scary, I mean I know I'm dependant on the medication and have a serious chronic pain condition, but this seems wayyyy off.

    There must be something different about how the medication is released, and could be related to the sick stomach feeling. I'm not sure exactly how the medication is released other than I've read what Shoreline wrote that it OxyC relases half right away then the other half about 6 hrs later. I wonder if this new generic has a different method of release, because I certainly don't feel any kind of pain relief. Maybe the med is not releasing at all, but I'd be interested in knowing how this generic time release works vs. the brand. Or if it is releasing a slow , small amount over the 12 hr period and thats why it never gets pain under control.

    Just thinking out loud, because I obviously can't think of everything else that needs to be dealt with right now.

     
    Old 09-30-2005, 09:46 AM   #11
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Hi Amsterdam,

    I'm so sorry you are going through this right now! My pain doc HATES generic Oxy. He always made a point of writing brand name only on the scripts when I used to take it (now on Duragesic). He said there is definitely something different about the release system with the generic than with brand Oxy. ALL of his patients that tried the generic (when it first came out and before he started writing DAW) had complaints. They ranged from the medicine not working, if it did work maybe getting 1-2 hrs. of partial pain relief, nausea/vomiting, headaches, and generally feeling horribly sick (he thinks from withdrawal). It made me violently sick (nausea/vomiting) and made my pain unbearable! I hope the pharmacy will straighten this out for you soon! Do you have any breakthrough meds to help your pain?

    Good Luck and Take Care

    Last edited by friendly_one; 09-30-2005 at 09:47 AM.

     
    Old 09-30-2005, 10:13 AM   #12
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kstone_queen
    Hi Amsterdam,

    I'm so sorry you are going through this right now! My pain doc HATES generic Oxy. He always made a point of writing brand name only on the scripts when I used to take it (now on Duragesic). He said there is definitely something different about the release system with the generic than with brand Oxy. ALL of his patients that tried the generic (when it first came out and before he started writing DAW) had complaints. They ranged from the medicine not working, if it did work maybe getting 1-2 hrs. of partial pain relief, nausea/vomiting, headaches, and generally feeling horribly sick (he thinks from withdrawal). It made me violently sick (nausea/vomiting) and made my pain unbearable! I hope the pharmacy will straighten this out for you soon! Do you have any breakthrough meds to help your pain?

    Good Luck and Take Care
    Thanks for the info. It doesn't surprise me that all of the patients had complaints, I just wonder how long ENDO is going to get away with keeping this product on the market. If its that bad, then how did it even pass as being "identical" to the brand. I know there are tolerances, but this is not even remotely effective. I don't know who they use in the testing, but it couldn't have been patients that have been on OxyC for awhile. Something is very sketchy here, it makes me wonder is really going on behind the scenes.

    I quit smoking over 5 years ago, and if it comes to it, I'll quit pain meds. I've tried more times than I can count to quit the pain meds, but always find myself in pain that literally keeps me from walking. I'm always looking for alternative pain modalities, but I can't just have a medication like this stopped on a dime with everything I need to deal with. I am very sensitive to pain and have a high tolerance for meds, bad combination. My DX is LS Radiculopathy and cervical radiculopathy. My major pain though is nerve pain in my right leg/foot in which MRI showed RSD and disuse atrophy. I get major pain spikes down from the thigh, down the left side of my leg , around the achillies tendon, and on the arch of the foot. I had a screw going into my ankle that was removed and that was a very difficult surgery that the pain never really went away. Its almost as if a nerve was damaged during removal.

    Anyway, gotta run to work. thanks again for input.

     
    Old 09-30-2005, 01:09 PM   #13
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Amazing. I got it exchanged. I went up there and waited. Soon as the manager got in I politely explained the situation. I am so glad I kept trying, and thanks for everyones suggestions.

    What a relief.

     
    Old 09-30-2005, 02:26 PM   #14
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Wow I am happy for you. I am in a methadose nightmare. My doc is in vacation.a month.
    Kaiser pharmacy gave me methdose, When i called they said you always get methadose its all we carry. But i know thats wrong for 1 i have the bottles they all say Dolophine for methadone. it always has. He basically called me a liar and said he can see in the system its methadose.2 Wednesday in pain class i mentioned to the pharmacist there, that i recieved methadose and it wasn't working as well and i felt ill. She is a kaiser pharmacist as well. She said that was because they had a shortage so were subing with the methadose. There is nothing i can do though. Fortunately i still have some dolophine. So i am using 2 of each. If i get feeling sick i take an extra. WHere do they get the dea they can just outright lye to us. I even quoted the allowed diffence in the dosing and again he basically told me i was lying. They are suppose to be there with the info to help us. Do they treat all there customers like that or just pain patients. I am sick of there crapola!!
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    Old 09-30-2005, 02:30 PM   #15
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    Re: Urgent , need help after taking generic OC

    Amsterdam,

    That's great news!! It's bad enough that we have to suffer with chronic pain. But, to deal with that pain and go through w/d on top of that because of a mistake made by a pharmacy is horrendous. I'm happy to hear everything worked out. Sorry you had to go through this hell. Hopefully, it won't take too long before you start feeling better.

    Take care

    Last edited by friendly_one; 09-30-2005 at 02:32 PM.

     
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