It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Pain Management Message Board

  • So frustrated with PM

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 12-23-2005, 03:52 PM   #1
    Amsterdam
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Amsterdam's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: PNW
    Posts: 118
    Amsterdam HB User
    So frustrated with PM

    Well as some of you may know I decided to quit my medication OxyC 40mg BID. I wanted to make an attempt at being free of meds since they weren't really taking away much of the pain. I realize that that choice has put me in an akward position. I saw the doc the other day and said that I just didn't want to be burdened with the meds but my pain was unbearable. I told them that it had got to the point where I was vomiting and partially blacking out due to the pain.

    They wrote me a script for Lyrica and told me to take the Celebrex. This appt was the first I had seen the doc since I took it upon myself to stop the Oxy. He was somewhat surprised when I said I stopped. He said, what you went cold turkey? I said no that I went in and got Suboxone. Then he said if I wanted to continue the Sub I would have to get it from the other doc because he couldn't prescribe it.

    Well a couple days went by and I am just in terrible pain. I have gone almost 2 weeks without any pain meds and I am barely able to get up and around. This is so unfortunate , and I hated to consider the fact that my life was much more functional on the meds and that I could probably return to work with meds. I can't afford to sit at home with no income while they try and figure out the source of all the pain.

    I made a decision yesterday, a day after the doc appt to get back on the meds because I am suffering way too much. I am so disappointed with the fact that I have to be on this medication, but I don't know if I have a choice anymore. I am starting to realize that I should have considered myself fortunate that there was such a medication that may potentially allow me to function as a normal person. I made the call to the docs office yesterday and told them I'd like to get something similar in strength to the Oxy 80mg daily. I didn't get a call back so I checked with them again today and they didn't call back today either.

    I may find myself sitting in an ER in the next day or so. I am so irritated and feel like I have no control over my life anymore. I thought that if I could get through the w/d's from the meds and the PT would help me get passed the need to be dependant on the meds. I just don't see the point in fighting this any longer, and should just get back on the meds. I apologize for posting this but I think this is the only place that someone might understand what I'm going through. I feel bad because I was telling people in my family that I was getting rid of the meds, and now I think that I might have to tell them I had to give in. None of my family are CP patients so I don't expect them to understand what I'm going through.

    Theres a good chance this doc won't even prescribe me the meds. I can already see them offering me some vics or something and I'm back to suffering with meds at too low of a dose. I guess I need to start looking for a different doc again. It sure seems like I'm doc shopping just looking for one that will give me a proper titration of meds.

    I am really dreading the thought of being at relatives houses this weekend and being in miserable pain. I am tempted to head off to the ER tonight to try and get something, but that will probably be worthless too. I feel really depressed lately and don't know why I continue fighting this everyday. I hate asking for things, its not how I am as a person so I usually end up being miserable and not treated.

    Hope everyone has a good holiday.

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 12-23-2005, 05:46 PM   #2
    Fabrashamx
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Fabrashamx's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Location: Gresham, Oregon
    Posts: 1,341
    Fabrashamx HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Hi Amster, I have read most of your posts and I have always thought it seemed to me you were horribly, horribly under medicated. I totally understand your feelings about going off the meds, they were never giving you much relief, but as you are finding out, some can be way better than none. Please don't give up. you don't have to take crap from anyone, you are in pain, and only another person who has suffered it can understand how life encompassing it can be. When a person is suffering there is literally no part of our lives untouched by that, it carries over into all we do. Please consider going back and explaining that you were not getting relief, and if they don't feel they can help you to please refer you to someone who can. If they say no, call your insurance yourself, call any and all support groups for pain in your area and if that fails call your congressman! You are entitled to compassion and help, It sucks that sometimes we have to pass assertive and be agressive to get the kind of help we need, but sometimes thats what it takes. I had to literally go and sit in my doctors waiting room every 3 days and visit the ER every week before he decided to pursue my claim of unrelenting pain and order the MRI that diagnosed my ruptured cervical disc. That is one of the things I love about these boards, I never feel like I'm alone anymore, I know if I have a bad experience, or just a terrible day I can come here and find a community of people who care and understand. Let me know how its going and take care of yourself! Your Friend, Fabby
    P.S.~I'm sure other folks will have more and better ideas for you, try and keep the faith!

     
    Old 12-23-2005, 11:18 PM   #3
    MizLiz
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    MizLiz's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Posts: 49
    MizLiz HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Amsterdam, I remember reading some posts of people deciding to quit their meds. I am sure one of them was yours. I also belong to another board for cp'ers so I am sure there were a couple there. I have also gone that route a few times myself! The point is that many of us get so fed up with the side effects and wishing that if we quit taking our meds our lives will return to the way it was when we were not in pain. For me, I know that the experience was very humbling. I forgot how much pain I had before the "gift" of narcotics/opioids. Once I get to about the 2nd or 3rd day it all comes back to me why I have to take my meds. But you know what? It is a beneficial experience IMO. First of all, it's a reality check that yes indeed my life is different now and I am fortunate that there are medications that help my quality of life. The other thing that happened for me was an unintentional "medication holiday" as they call it. When I went back on my meds boy was it wonderful! I felt better relief. In fact, I now do that every 6 - 12 months for a couple of days or so because then when I get back on my meds it seems to work better.

    As far as the family stuff goes, yeah been there too. When I told people I was reducing my meds they all offered me congratulations without regard to how less functioning I was because of pain. I have learned to say nothing about my meds to anyone except my doctors and fellow cp'ers. We shouldnt have to feel bad because we need our medication to function. We shouldnt have to beg our doctors for appropriate dosages either.

    I hope that you are able to get the medication that you need to help your pain. Dont feel bad or like you failed. Think of it as a learning experience. Your body needs the meds and thats ok. Good luck and I hope your holiday weekend is ok. Go to the ER if you have to. Nothing wrong with getting medical treatment for a medical problem. Hang in there. Liz

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 07:52 AM   #4
    Shoreline
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jun 2003
    Posts: 3,519
    Shoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Hey Amsterdam, I certainly nderstand wanting to see if you can live without the heavy price of physical dependence and all the stigma from people, friends and family that don't understand about PM and the choice we have to make.

    Trying to go without isn't a bad test to see where you are from time to time, but the way you went about it put you a in a bad situation. Hind sight is 20/20 and for those looking to do this in the future, please discuss it with your prescribing doc and simply tell him you want to try to reduce your dose to see if you can manage your CP without the negative effects of opiate pain control.

    When you went to another doc and had him prescribe suboxone or subutex or Buprenex, however you might have explained the reason for wanting it or the reason for wanting to try living opiate free. Buprenex/Suboxone/Subutex is a drug solely aproved for the treatment of Addiction. So you labeled yourself an addict the moment you excepted and filled that script. PM docs recognize it has pain relieving properties and some use it for CP in limited patients because of the contraversial nature and implication of using Suboxone.

    THis is from the Full prescribing info from the FDA.
    Information for Pharmacists
    SUBOXONE® (buprenorphine HCl/naloxone HCl dihydrate, sublingual tablet)
    and SUBUTEX® (buprenorphine HCl, sublingual tablet)
    What are SUBOXONE and SUBUTEX?
    SUBOXONE and SUBUTEX are sublingual tablets indicated for the
    treatment of opioid dependence. SUBOXONE contains buprenorphine
    (a partial agonist at the mu-opioid receptor and an antagonist at the
    kappa-opioid receptor) and naloxone (an antagonist at the mu-opioid
    receptor). SUBUTEX contains buprenorphine only.
    Why is it important for all pharmacists to learn about
    SUBOXONE and SUBUTEX?
    For the first time, pharmacists will play a role in the delivery of opiate
    addiction treatment. SUBOXONE and SUBUTEX are the first
    medications approved for office-based treatment of opioid dependence
    under the Drug Addiction Treatment Act of 2000 (DATA). Prior to the
    passage of this law, it was illegal for a doctor to prescribe narcotic
    drugs for the treatment of narcotic dependence. Opioid dependence
    treatment of this type could only be provided at specially registered
    clinics. Under the new law, only opiate addiction treatment drugs
    under Schedule II are confined to use in the clinic setting. Less tightly
    controlled drugs (Schedules III-V) may be prescribed for opiate
    NDA 20-732
    NDA 20-733
    Page 44
    addiction treatment by specially qualified doctors who treat patients in
    their private offices.
    : Why are there two formulations?
    SUBOXONE is the preferred medication for maintenance treatment
    due to the presence of naloxone in the formulation, which is intended to
    deter intravenous abuse by persons dependent on other opiates.
    SUBUTEX, which does not contain naloxone, may be better tolerated
    by patients in the first several days of treatment and is generally
    preferred for induction. “Induction” refers to the initial period of
    treatment, during which time the patient should receive medication
    under the doctor’s supervision in the office. Patients or their family
    members may need to come and pick up induction doses each day for
    the first several days of treatment (or you may be asked to arrange
    delivery to the doctor’s office, if your pharmacy provides this service).
    Therefore, while you may see prescriptions for small amounts of
    SUBUTEX presented for induction doses, you should expect the
    majority of prescriptions to be for SUBOXONE.

    Your PM doc can not prescribe opiates by law in an active addict. It would be no different than Someone that abused their meds, went to rehab, and 2 weeks later you decide you no longer want treatment and want to use opiates again.

    I undertsand this is not the case, Most CP patients and PM docs understand, but your docs hands are tied. This drug is aproved for opiate addiction, therefore regardless of how you explained your desire to discontinue meds. By another doc prescribing Suboxone, you are being charted, labeled and treated for opiate addiction by the doc prescribing ther Sub. Any doc that knows you are an addict is breaking the law by prescribing more opiates to an addict.

    Please don't interpret this as me calling you an addict, it's the nature of the medication and it's use. I understand opiate antagonist can relieve pain , however it's a very off use porpose and very risky by the doc doing it. Should a doc prescribe to an addict he's not only breaking the law but risking censure from the medical board and puts himself in agreat liability should your family want to bring a law suite for mal practice or should something unfortunate happen like your in an accident or have an adverse reaction or overdose. They can press charges,bring a mal practice suite against him and his licence would likely be revoked for giving a known addict more of the drug he is addicted too.

    Again I completely understand why you wanted to try to go without, you just did it in the wrong manner. I'm not saying you will have to suffer the rest of your life because of this, But you will have to leave this detail out of your medical history if you look for a new PM doc and hope it never comes to light. So look at finding a PM doc as starting over, Forget the suboxone, change GP's, leave out the info about your prior use, which all sounds like doc shopping and poor advice, But I can't tell someone that can't function without pain meds, too bad, you made your bed and now you must lie down and die in it. You likely will eventually find a doc willing to treat you, you may have to duplicate some therapies or testing and start from scratch. But this is the consequence of the other doc prescribing this med intended for outpatient addiction treatment. You didn't simplly reduce your dose or go cold turkey. You went to anther doc and asked for a drug formulated to treat opiate addiction.

    My thoughts and prayers are with you and hope you somehow work this out. IT may be that you are at a point of withdrawal where pain increases, depression strikes hard and this may pass in the next weeks or couple months. You really can't tell in a few days or weeks if you can functin without these meds if your body hasn't gone through all the phases of withdrawal. There are 3 disticnt phases. The first few weeks, a month to 2 months and then up to 6 months for sleep patterns to return to nomral, endorpin and enkehlin production to return to normal, and to really be starting with a chemicaly clean slate.

    I wish you all the luck in the world and please remeber that nomatter how bad you feel today, tomorrow is a new day and a new opportunity to find an answer and feel a little better. Don't throw in the towel, because a couple months from now you may find a doc willing to treat you that doesn't know of what hapened and and how this went down. There really isn't much your present PM doc can do. So your right, you simply have to start looking for a new PM doc and change GP's if he is the one that prescribed the suboxone or even knows about it.

    For all intensive purposes, your new to the area or new to CP and PM and need help dealing with your CP, that's about all the info you want to give. Good luck and please don't give up looking for a way to manage your pain and do give it time because things will improve. What your expeincing now is a phase of withdrawal, increased pain and severe depession. I absolutely know, that will get better. You might even be surprised how much better you feel in a couple months and find you made the right choice even if you haven't found a doc to treat you yet.

    My younger brother killed himself at the age of 24 and it's the greatest waste I can imagine. Whatever circumstances that brougt him to that point or brink, were not permanent , could have been over come, and certainly things would have changed in his life. It's a permanat solution to a temp problem and causes more pain than you can imagine unless one of your loved one has chosen to take this ultimate selfish and irreversible action.

    Six months from now you could have your pain managed better than ever or possibly find a complete cure. Giving up now means you will never know what might come just around the corner.
    Take care and god bless. Dave

    Last edited by Shoreline; 12-24-2005 at 06:10 PM.

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 09:12 AM   #5
    Fabrashamx
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Fabrashamx's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2005
    Location: Gresham, Oregon
    Posts: 1,341
    Fabrashamx HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Wow Shore thanks so much, your posts not only answer individual questions, they educate everyone else who reads them. I had NO idea thats what suboxone was. Amster, I am so so sorry that you are in this position, but please, Like Shore said, you never know what tomorrow will bring. Maybe it would be possible for you to see an addiction specialist, and if he or she can diagnose you as under medicated, non addict, and that can be part of your permanent record, you can remain with your old doctor? would that work, Dave? whatever happens, please remember that things change everyday, nothing stays the same even when we want them to, there are better days for you ahead. Please let us know youre reaction to this news and how you are coping. I really feel so bad for you, I hope there is an answer and you can resolve this or at least formulate a plan for yourself and have some peace of mind and some hope for the future. God Bless, Fabby
    PS~ Dave I am so sorry to hear you lost your brother and at such a young age, two of my brothers were killed accidently and I know that kind of grief never leaves you totally. Thank you for sharing that experience with us, painful as it must be. You're the best.

    Last edited by Fabrashamx; 12-24-2005 at 09:29 AM.

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 12:22 PM   #6
    Amsterdam
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Amsterdam's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: PNW
    Posts: 118
    Amsterdam HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    I appreciate the help. The reason I went to Suboxone is because I have a history of chemical dependancy and even though its been 8-9 years since being into that it always made me feel vunerable in terms of taking these narcotics for pain relief. I know my tolerance is much much higher than the average person so the docs giving me 40-80mg of Oxy daily was so minimal I had such difficulty keeping myself to that dose. I didn't ever want to come right out and tell the docs of the past because I thought that they wouldn't treat me with the opiates.

    So yes my choice to take myself off the meds completely was not a good one at all and I regret it. I made a mistake and thought that because I wasn't being given the proper level of meds that I had to stop taking them altogether. This current doc was telling me he wanted me off the meds right away anyway and that should have made me turn around and walk right back out the door, but instead I took that opportunity to try and quit. I knew that the taper would not go over well because I would be miserable because I'd just end up taking what my body was used to and I'd run out early.

    Your right about the w/d stage though and I completely underestimated it. I thought that I would be able to stop this and I'd get over it in a week or two. This is not the case. I just wish the docs had a little more compassion and concern for their patients lives. I have never had a doctor that seemed concerned about anything as I feel like an addict everytime I go in there.

    I apologize for coming across as desperate but I have been really doubtful about things lately which is to be expected when one goes through opiate, benzo , anti-depressant w/d all at once. I never expected it to be this bad and truely thought I could get myself off of everything and forget about it in a couple weeks. I'm now paying the price and if I do get back on opiates I will never forget this lesson I had to learn. These meds are no joke and I never expected it to be like this.

    Sorry for going on about this but I literally have nobody to help me figure out a solution and I don't trust my own judgement right now at all. The reason I quit the meds was because I felt TOO good on them and from my life experiences that can be a very dangerous thing. I have learned that if these meds allow me to be free of the majority of pain and I feel good on them then I need to figure out a way to make room for them in my life and make sure I am able to function normally while on them. Being undermedicated is a terrible place but I'm in a worse place right now.

    Dave, I'm so sorry about your brother and I feel bad that my post may have brought back feelings about it. The help you provide on here is more than appreciated and everytime I read one of your posts it has so much helpful information I am just amazed.

    thanks everyone.

    Last edited by Amsterdam; 12-24-2005 at 12:27 PM.

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 03:34 PM   #7
    Amsterdam
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Amsterdam's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: PNW
    Posts: 118
    Amsterdam HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Went to the ER and they gave me 12 5/500 vics, wow I must have a sign on my forehead that says let this guy suffer.

    At some point when your in this much pain and you go to 3-5 doc appts per week between the PM, Chiro, PT, MRI's, EMG's, etc to try and get a DX one can start to lose hope.

    I just don't get how these docs claim to be PM docs. From now on I'm done being nice and just letting them walk all over me with their mild to moderate pain medication. I'm in severe pain and can't even manage to get out of the house unless its absolutely necessary. I am going to cause a scene at this docs office if they don't treat me like a human being. I am just sick of being patient after over 3 years of constantly working on getting the pain DX'd.

    I just want to grab the damn script pad and write out what I think would work to get me started and toss it back to the doc and just say SIGN IT. haha.

    I realize now especially after Liz's post that I don't need to share my need for meds with non-CP people, it just makes it harder to deal with. This does bring up an issue as far as work. The last time I was off work and I returned they asked if I was on any pain meds. I told them that I didn't take them at work, but now when I go back I will tell them that I take them all day. They asked what kind of medication I was on and I told them hydrocodone. I don't know if its any of their business, but since I do a labor type job maybe they will give me a desk job with some normal day shift hours instead of my miserable afternoon 10 hr shift.

    I really dislike my job but its money and I have to pay the bills so I don't really have a choice. The thing I hate is that they don't let people back to work with any restrictions and they are well aware this has been going on for over 3 years. One would think they could transfer me to another job as they are a huge company with openings all over the country.

    Sorry for the rambling, just sick of having all of this to deal with.

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 04:07 PM   #8
    Amsterdam
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Amsterdam's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: PNW
    Posts: 118
    Amsterdam HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    I am going to talk with this current PM doc ASAP and request an equivalent med to 80mg of Oxy daily. From the conversion chart I see there are probably 3 different meds I could try.
    1. Fentanyl 50 mcg
    2. Methadone 45-74
    3. Morphine 135-224

    I know that the patch comes in 50's and that some people have trouble getting them to last 3 days and this doc was seemed strict when he gave me the OxyC saying that its a 12hr med and shouldn't be written TID. I think I would like to suggest either the Meth or Morphine. Would I want to start at the lower end of that range? What would be the dosing for the Meth and Morphine, specifically by the brand.... like Meth 20mg TID? or MS Contin 20mg TID?

    I am going to be more assertive towards getting some relief as opposed to just letting the docs give me what they feel comfortable prescribing. I am not too crazy about getting the injections but I want to know what is causing my L5/S1 nerve problem. If its not being pinched by a disc, where else could it be damaged or affected so that I can't even feel an EMG needle go in during the test.

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 06:31 PM   #9
    dango
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2005
    Location: New England
    Posts: 133
    dango HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Dear Folks; Just as methadone is used for detox OR pain--so is suboxone/buprenorphine. It carries some of the same stigma as well. See the article below. Don't take my word for it! I've had similar responses from my PMD when I was underutilizing my pain meds. He considered THAT to be just as much "breaking our contract" as "over-using" them. That was a shocker to me! I thought he'd be impressed and instead he was angry! He told me to follow the contract or find another PMD! Everyone is SO paranoid--and they HAVE to be! We could be hoarding meds, OD-ing on them later, selling them... They go to medical school for a good long time and are dependent upon strangers (patients), lots of them all at once, to cooperate in keeping their license to practice safe! It's bad enough for me--and I'm just a therapist!

    MiaVt

    Sublingual buprenorphine is effective in the treatment of chronic pain syndrome

    Many patients with chronic pain have less than optimal therapeutic outcomes after prolonged treatment with opiate analgesics. Worsening of pain perception, functional capacity, and mood often result. Medical detoxification is often undertaken in this situation. Ninety-five consecutive patients (49 men and 46 women; age range, 26-84) with chronic noncancer pain were referred by local pain clinics for detoxification from long-term opiate analgesic therapy. All patients had increasing pain levels, worsening functional capacity, and, in 8%, the emergence of opiate addiction. Length of prior long-term therapy ranged from 1.5 to 27 years (mean, 8.8 years). After a minimum of 12 hours of abstinence from all opiate analgesics, patients were given low doses of sublingual (SL) buprenorphine or buprenorphine/naloxone. Maintenance dosing was individualized to treat chronic pain. Daily SL dose of buprenorphine ranged from 4 to 16 mg (mean, 8 mg) in divided doses. Mean duration of treatment is 8.8 months (range, 2.4-16.6 months).

    At clinic appointments, patients were assessed for pain, functional capacity, and mood. Eighty-six percent of patients experienced moderate to substantial relief of pain accompanied by both improved mood and functioning. Patient and family satisfaction was robust. Only 6 patients discontinued therapy secondary to side effects and/or exacerbation of pain. In this open-label study, SL buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone were well tolerated and safe and appeared to be effective in the treatment of chronic pain patients refractory to long-term opiate analgesic therapy. Malinoff HL, Barkin RL, Wilson G. Adapted from Am J Ther. 2005 Sep-Oct;12(5):379-84.


    Read more: PMID 16148422
    [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=A bstract&list_uids=16148422&query_hl=2[/url]

    Credit: PubMed, developed by the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) at the National Library of Medicine (NLM).

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 07:18 PM   #10
    conductor
    Veteran
    (male)
     
    conductor's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Location: USA
    Posts: 462
    conductor HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Dear Amsterdam--as well as all of the other helpful friends,

    I have read this entire thread twice, and I am completely dumbfounded!!!

    Amsterdam, the previous posts on this thread are full of GREAT suggestions from exceptionally knowledgeable people. PLEASE HANG IN THERE UNTIL YOU CAN SEE A PAIN MANAGEMENT PHYSICIAN AGAIN!!

    Yes, when we look back, we can always "see" better, but I certainly understand your thought processes concerning the cesation of the use of the pain medicine you were taking. Honestly, I have a truly unbelievable tolerance to opiates, and this always makes me come across to doctors as "suspicious". However, I have been fortunate enough to find a doctor who truly understands my case (and my 2- to 3-inch thick medical record).

    Bluntly, if my doctor Rx'd any strength of hydrocodone (Lortab/Vicodin), I would probably convulse from laughing at the audacity of such a ploy of under-medicating!!!!

    Yes...I think you probably went about the entire issue incorrectly, but your experience has taught ALL OF US what not to do!

    Although I am not a doctor or anything like that, I truly think you have been catastrophically UNDER-Rx'd concerning your pain. This explains the depression, as well as many of the additional feelings you have unfortunately endured. We are all so very sorry!

    Please...keep us up-to-date on your progress. We want to learn from you. Many others who simply read the posts (and don't actively post) want to know what they should do, too.

    Let us know. Also, know that there are many of us praying for your situation. I am increasingly convinced that we are a community in great need of one another's encouragement.

    Sincerely,
    Conductor (Jon)

    P.S. Dave (Shoreline), I am so sorry to learn of your brother's tragedy. May Peace surround you.

     
    Old 12-24-2005, 09:02 PM   #11
    Amsterdam
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Amsterdam's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: PNW
    Posts: 118
    Amsterdam HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Jon- I am fighting a battle that I completely underestimated. I had no idea that this would have been so hard on myself or I would have never tried it. I believe it was worth the try though and have no regrets. Hopefully some will learn from my experience and try to be much more careful about trying to get away from the meds. The attempt I made was just way too drastic and should have been better planned to avoid all the suffering.

    I will keep working on getting relief and seeking out a good doc to treat the condition and always look for ways to cure the problem if possible. I won't quit on this ever, but I am so thankful for the support on this board. The knowledge and experience on here has the power to save lives and help people get the help they need.

    I am working on a solution to this problem everyday until I find something that works for me. It may not be what I wanted in life but unfortunately its the cards I was dealt so I will just go with it. I just wish more people would understand CP patients and be more sympathetic.

     
    Old 12-25-2005, 06:36 PM   #12
    MizLiz
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    MizLiz's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2004
    Posts: 49
    MizLiz HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Amsterdam,
    Unfortunately I am not very familiar with your situation and/or dx but in the #8 post you briefly mentioned a nerve problem from the L5-S1 area. I was just wondering are you still having problems with getting it diagnosed? I was just curious because I had the same type of problem and it wasnt until I had a discogram done correctly that they were able to diagnose and treat. My right leg/foot is the problem and I complained of the burning pain & numbness but the MRI didnt show the problem completely. My surgeon ended up doing the discogram over (the other techi messed it up). Anyway, I was just wondering if any thing I had already gone through might be helpful to you. ?? Liz

     
    Old 12-28-2005, 05:54 PM   #13
    Amsterdam
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Amsterdam's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: PNW
    Posts: 118
    Amsterdam HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    I went back in to the PM doc today and I was told that because of my history of using "high doses" of meds that I most likely have serious dependancy issues and that I might need to see a "different kind" of pain clinic.

    The doc said that the treatment at their clinic consists of giving injections, PT and leading an active life while weaning the patient off the meds. I told him that I was all for that but if I'm laying on the couch unable to function 99% of the day due to pain I'm no good to anyone. He was not very receptive and seemed like he was going to walk out and just say that he couldn't help me.

    He then asked me what I felt they should do about the situation. I told them that considering the fact that I'm in serious pain and in need of relief so I can be somewhat mobile I would need a pain med. They were asking me about vicodin , norco, etc. I said no that I have tried all of them. I told them that I should be given the patch or MS Contin and we could start the injections.
    The doc was not too positive about it but agreed and said he would start me at the 25mg patch since he didn't know how I'd react to it. That seemed odd to me because of how he said he'd start me at that dose, as if he would increase it if it was necessary.

    So I am going to my first injection tomorrow and am nervous about it. I hate thinking about doing anything invasive like this because every other surgery type thing I've had has been a nightmare. I know its not surgery but I don't like hospitals at all and get all anxious.

    Its been about 6 hrs since I put the patch on and I notice the very slightest relief of pain, but any relief is better than where I was at the past couple weeks. I am also glad that I don't get the major rush of energy like I did with oxy, oh my gosh that was insane. I now realize what effect the oxy had on my body for almost 3 years. I would be highly active within the first couple hours of taking the oxy and then it would flatten out. I got used to that rush of energy and without that rush I've been parked on the couch and unable to work due to pain and being totally unmotivated. I will never go back to oxy again because I realize how much my body is dependant on it for energy and to feel OK.

    I am somewhat nervous about how 10 patches will last 30 days because at 72 hrs the old one comes off and the new one goes on in the same day. Below are the days that I will be changing the patch. I think I have heard that on months with 31 days that the fill should be made on day 29? I want to be sure that I stick to the schedule.

    Dec 28th #1
    Dec 31th #2
    Jan 3rd #3
    Jan 6th #4
    Jan 9th #5
    Jan 12th #6
    Jan 13th #7
    Jan 16th #8
    Jan 19th #9
    Jan 22nd #10

    the last patch will last until the 25th. The 25th is day number 29.

    thanks for the help.

     
    Old 12-29-2005, 06:14 AM   #14
    Shoreline
    Senior Veteran
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jun 2003
    Posts: 3,519
    Shoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB UserShoreline HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    Hey Amsterdam, It takes about 17 hours for a patch to reach full effect or max serum level. Also whe you remove a patch your skin continues to aborbs the fent remaining on the skin for about 17 hours, so You won't notice a huge decline right away if you were to remove a patch. If you were to jump in the showere after removing a atch I imagine you could scrub enough off yopur skin that you could cut that time drasticlly down, but if it is a problem you can leave the last paych on for a ferw hours after your put the next patch on. May as well get your moneys worth, and it's not nenough by the 17th hour to create a problem with overlap. You also may not find that allthe liquid has completely left the resevoir shwhen you remove the old patch, that's K too. They dfata shows prtt consistiant serum levels after just 2 aplications. Some folks do need to change more frequently, but starting at 72 hours is common practice, some folks change at 60 hours some change at 48, it jus depends on how well you absorb the med. Skin temp, sweatng , exposure to heat all effect the rate of delivery.

    I'm glad you found a med that you don't feel kick in, it's too easy to associate that feeling with pain relief. As far as Morphine products, THat's why I preferred Kadian, Just smooth continous relief, no kick, just steady pain relief that you don't associate with any false sense of well being. We all know where that leads.

    Goodluck and you would be suprisd by some of the injections, Trigger point injections were a breeze and can offer imediate relief for me, so were ESI's and medial branch blocks compared to post op pain and discograms, so pain is all relative to what you have experienced. The more tense you are going in, the more unpleaseant the experience will likely be, so just try to relax and realize these injections are to relieve your pain, not inflict more. I'm glad your doc was willing to continue to work with you and try other modalities and you werren' left out in the cold.
    Take care
    Dave

    PS if your insurance will pay , from what have read it's well worth the additional copay for the name brand products. There have been some recalls of the generics and many complaints about the quality of generic patches so if you have a choice, go name brand.There are also ways to help with adhesion problems and skin irritation from the adhesive should that become an issue, just ask if you have a problem. Good luck.

     
    Old 12-29-2005, 06:50 AM   #15
    Amsterdam
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Amsterdam's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2005
    Location: PNW
    Posts: 118
    Amsterdam HB User
    Re: So frustrated with PM

    I am so thankful that the doc heard me out and let me try the patch. I am at the 19 hour mark and am getting some noted relief, brought the pain from a 7 down to around a 4 and that is really good. I know some of it is due to the fact that I haven't had any opiates for about 2 weeks.

    I'm glad to be done with the oxy because I just couldn't handle feeling so strung out on it. I will never go back on that stuff because no pain relief is worth feeling like your losing your grip on your life for minimal pain relief. I realize it works for some, but for some reason my body just processed it way to fast and the ups and downs were terrible.

    I just wanted to feel normal again and thought that the only way I could get back there was to quit the meds and pray that PT would help me get through it. I am hopeful that I can keep the pain at bay and start to increase my physical activity after the injections. The main reason for my dependance on the oxys were because I needed them to accomplish tasks and that just put me in a vicious cycle. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to do what I did and just quit but people do things when they are desperate. I felt like an addict on the oxy and that is not a favorable feeling as its something that brings back horrible memories.

    thanks all for being here and helping. I wouldn't have sought out things to help myself if I wasn't encouraged by people on here. I just as easily could have written off my oxy use as a relapse and then ended up in treatment over it. I still feel a bit vunerable having the patch on but I am not looking to slap on the remaining 9 of them to see how it would feel, so I guess thats a good thing

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Anyone here with OCD get so frustrated they throw or break things or hit themselves? Rsspro18 Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) 10 02-21-2007 02:24 PM
    Frustrated with Breastfeeding befer70 Breastfeeding 26 01-23-2007 05:10 AM
    Frustrated with parents and siblings HelplessinPA Caregivers 7 12-02-2006 01:23 PM
    frustrated about my "recovery" firewtr38 Eating Disorder Recovery 4 11-29-2005 09:35 PM
    Fat, Fatigued & Frustrated! simplyj Obesity 3 06-13-2004 05:19 PM
    Feeling frustrated with everything Crazy in College Depression 3 01-01-2003 08:01 PM
    Frustrated about Allergies!!! heyrae32 Allergies 8 10-31-2001 12:45 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:47 AM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!