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    Old 03-06-2006, 10:46 PM   #1
    krash1
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    Tired but can't sleep

    I take 2-100mg Kadian/day 4-5 vicodin HP/day
    I'm tired all of the time but I can't sleep. I take over the counter NO (nitric oxide) which is suppose to help get blood to the muscles. It has helped a little. I have take Ritalin 5mg 2x/day also Amphetamine (can't think of the name right now) Both of these stimulants has actually made me tired, but when I tell my doctor he said it must be something else making me tired. He is wrong!!! I've been somewhat tired and take ritalin and fell asleep within 15 minutes and stayed asleep for 3-4 hours.
    My question is does anybody know of anything that would help? Meds or over-the-counter it doesn't matter. Vitmans, minerals, amino acids, anything? If I can't get over the tiredness then I might as well be a vegetable.
    Please send help
    I know that the opiods are what is causing me to be tired, but can't sleep. I'm really looking for something that will give me a shot of energy so that I can start working out and that way I can sleep without taking more medication

    Last edited by krash1; 03-07-2006 at 07:44 PM. Reason: add info

     
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    Old 03-07-2006, 06:51 AM   #2
    tina76
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    krash - well I might be different from others... But ALLLL opiates make me stay awake at night. I get tired but cannot sleep. I had the problem on oxy, hydro, and now on methadone. All day I would feel like I could lay down on the floor and sleep like a baby here at work, but then when I get home and get ready for bed....WIDE AWAKE. So is it possible your pain meds are causing the problem?

    Tina

     
    Old 03-07-2006, 02:10 PM   #3
    Blasterboy
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    Maybe I'm missing the point, but isn't a side effect of regular use of stimulants like Ritalin and Amphetamine, fatigue and lack of sleep or difficulty sleeping? That's where I'd start pointing the finger. Anyhow, I find Amitrptyline 50mg helps me sleeps (good sleep) through my pain for most of the night, have you tried that? It's none benzo, which is the best things about it and it helps some with pain (especially folk like me with nerve type pain.)

     
    Old 03-08-2006, 06:21 AM   #4
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    Opiates cause a release of hystamine and often prevent many people from sleeping. Morphine in particular breaks down into 2 metabolites, the M3G and M6G, the M6G can cause restless leg syndrome and cause twitching and jerking that will prevent you fromgetting a full night sleep or at least feeling rested. The oteher alternatives for slep are anti depressants or to treat the the RLS with one of the Parkinsons med. It's not quite as fun, but should do the job.

    I honestly think you lost your doc when you first ask for amphetamines for sleep, by the way Ritalin is an amphetamine too, and in the same breath you want to use the same med for the pick me up to motivate you to do something good for yourself that doesn't come in a capsule or tablet. The only time amphetamines would be considered a sleep aid is after 3 days of binging when your Buzz Krashes.

    Better living through modern pharmacolgy, Had you considerd that if you just sucked it up and worked out without amphtamines you would recieve the same benefit, you just have to motivate yourself the first couple days. Perhaps you need to decide if your pain warrants using opiates if you need amphetamines just to do something that you know you would benefit from. Your not saying you hurt too much to excercise, your just not motivated enough. Just how long do you think you will need a speed ball to work up the motivation to go to the gym?

    I've seen people fall asleep with a crack pipe in their hand, but it didn't lead me to believe it must have some miraculous sleep aid property I needed to rush out and try

    I haven't slept more than 4 hours straight in 6 years. It's just part of living with intractable pain but hasn't effected my sanity enough to ask for amphetmaines for sleep. The ability to rationalize anything is an amazing thing but most sleep aids don't work in 5 minutes even if there was some link between the action of amphetamines and sleep.

    When did people start going to the doc with a shopping list of meds to make them feel better rather than asking the doc what he thinks based on his years of experience and education.

    Try some plain old benedryl, It's an antihystamine and will likely reverse the hystamine release caused by opiates and allow you to sleep. I can't promise sleep in 5 minutes unless you using Rohipnol and alcohol because no sleep aid is going to work that fast, not even amphetamines.

    Good luck with your issues.Dave

     
    Old 03-08-2006, 06:58 AM   #5
    curiousforever
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    "I've seen people fall asleep with a crack pipe in their hand, but it didn't lead me to believe it must have some miraculous sleep aid property I needed to rush out and try "

    Really Dave? I must lead a sheltered life. I've only seen one on 'Cops' on tv...


    Anyway - is the ritalin and other med you take something you need to take? If you're taking it to stay awake during the day it's a bad move.

    I had to really work on my sleep cycle (which is messed up again-probably from sleeping about 30 hours during a stomach bug incident last week) by keeping myself as busy as possible during the day - not lying down - even though exhausted. That helped me to actually sleep at night.

    You *should* be going to bed around the same time each night and waking up around the same time each morning. Otherwise it will make the problem worse.

    My doc also said that if you're not asleep within about 20 minutes to get up and do something. Otherwise you (well..I do ) lay there and get frustrated the longer you're awake.

     
    Old 03-08-2006, 08:14 AM   #6
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    Curious - We are on the same page as usual... I have gotten the same advice about sleep. Always try to go to bed at the same time and also the get up after 20 minutes if you aren't sleeping. I think that is the standard advice. I know I've read it many magazines, health books, etc... as well. And I think it is completely true. If I can't sleep I just lay there and start stressing about the fact that I am not sleeping which makes sleep even more elusive! My doctor did stress that if I DO have to get up to not do anything that is too mentally stimulating...that I should do things that are relaxing like taking a hot bath, or making some sleepytime tea or something like that and reading a couple chapters of a book while snuggling on the couch with my dog. Things that promote relaxation for me. But to NOT watch TV or do work or anything like that or it will get your brain pumping too much. That is the advice I got.... don't know if it will help anyone...

     
    Old 03-08-2006, 09:00 AM   #7
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    Hey Tina!

    I've trieed the Ambien route - but as soon as those were gone I was back to having problems sleeping.

     
    Old 03-08-2006, 09:36 AM   #8
    tina76
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    I asked about Ambien at my last appt with my "sleep" doctor and she said my insurance won't pay for it until I have tried (unsuccessfully) at least 4 other meds. So now I am on the 4th which is clonazapam. It actually seems to work. But I only take it a couple of times a week because I don't want to become dependent on it. So every other nigth I am WIDE awake due to the methadone. Why did you go off the Ambien?

     
    Old 03-08-2006, 10:08 AM   #9
    curiousforever
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    They gave it to me for a month. But they don't like doing it longer I think - and when the month was over I was right back to not being able to sleep. So I decided to follow the other advice about bedtimes, etc... cause I already take enough meds and I am not going to bother with another.

    And the pain clinic said to add another 60 cymbalta in the morning - epidural injection things for my lower back and something for my neck. No other pain med change.
    But my doc is going to send me to pain clinic that will now take tri care in town - and maybe they will change my meds.

     
    Old 03-09-2006, 05:04 PM   #10
    krash1
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    Re: Tired but can't sleep

    Sorry, I must have been tired when I wrote the 1st time. I do NOT take amphetamines to help me sleep. I'm tired all the time and what I was saying is that in the morning when I'm severly tired I take an Adderall or Ritalin and I will fall back to sleep. And sleep pretty well at that.
    As far as not enough motivation. I would do anything not to have to take meds. I use to be a health nut. Now I'm just nuts. And to whoever said it, I don't think that a speedball would be the best motivation to start and keep working out. Well, at least not for me.
    Thanks for all of your advice

     
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