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  • Seeing PM&R doc, hope to get off demerol.

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    Old 08-16-2006, 09:54 AM   #1
    mergatroy
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    Seeing PM&R doc, hope to get off demerol.

    Several of you pointed out the long term harmful effects of demerol, so I will ask again to be put on something else. Any quick suggestions?

    I have only taken 3 or 4 demerol since I learned about its potentially damaging effects.

    What helps you? I am 209 pounds, 61 years old. Fair health. Rather than use the demerol, I have put up with pain in the last few weeks. Ideas welcomed.

     
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    Old 08-17-2006, 12:45 AM   #2
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    Re: Seeing PM&R doc, hope to get off demerol.

    Hey DL, Just to give you an idea, 150 mgs of demi is roughly equal to 20-30 mgs of instant releaese morphine or 15-20 mgs of oxycodone or 3-4 mgs of dilaudid. Whatever works best for you, but that gives you an idea of what you need to replace 150 mg dose of demi. Demi is a stronger kappa receptor binder so it causes more euphoria, or a false sense of well being. If you switch to a med that doesn't create as much euphoria, you have a clearer head, but if you relate that feeling to pain relief, it becomes hard to replace with drugs that create less euphoria.
    Hope this helps, Dave

     
    Old 08-17-2006, 09:40 AM   #3
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    Re: Seeing PM&R doc, hope to get off demerol.

    Dave...I asked again....and again they said the demerol was ok. I told them I had read about the long term problems with dem and he asked how much I was using.

    It is "gotcha" time. I told him I had almost totally quit using them since I read that, as I don't want to cause myself more problems down the line. The dr. smiled and said if I am not using them, I don't have a problem. So he did not change a thing.

    I guess that is one way to do it. Since I increase the Avinza to 180mg I do have much less break thru pain. As I have said before, I would have changed dr. but since I filed for SSDI, if I leave this dr. for another one, he might get mad and say I am doing much better or something. Is a side effect of opioids being paranoid?

    Additionally, he asked me about the dr. he sent me to see...about putting the morphine pump or pain relief device..rats, can't remember its name, it gives us electronic pain relief. Anyway, I told him the dr. is a surgeon and he only discussed a lumbar fusion. NOW I have a prescription to see that dr. again for a discussion of the insertion of the electronic device.

    Am I the only one who notices how much time is passing while I, the patient, get no permanent relief?? My PM&R doctor told me about this pain relief electronic thing in March of 2006. It is August now. At this rate I will die of old age before they decide. On the bright (?) side of things, my PM&R dr. said he still thinks I am inoperable at this time and that the lumbar fusions are NOT one hundred percent effective. He said, based on his knowledge of the surgeries, you cannot compare lumbar fusion with knee transplants. Lumbar fusions are not that good yet. He said, she said...with me in the middle.

    Thanks for the suggestions Dave, I appear to be stuck for the moment.

     
    Old 08-18-2006, 12:02 PM   #4
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    Re: Seeing PM&R doc, hope to get off demerol.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shoreline
    Hey DL, Just to give you an idea, 150 mgs of demi is roughly equal to 20-30 mgs of instant releaese morphine or 15-20 mgs of oxycodone or 3-4 mgs of dilaudid. Whatever works best for you, but that gives you an idea of what you need to replace 150 mg dose of demi. Demi is a stronger kappa receptor binder so it causes more euphoria, or a false sense of well being. If you switch to a med that doesn't create as much euphoria, you have a clearer head, but if you relate that feeling to pain relief, it becomes hard to replace with drugs that create less euphoria.
    Hope this helps, Dave
    I've taken almost every kind of pain medicine. The only one that causes a sense of "euphoria" IN ME is hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco). It cures the pain, gives me energy, and so on.

    All others that I've taken (I haven't taken demerol), such as Morphine, Oxycontin, Dilaudid, and so on, do not cause any euphoria. They all make me tired, slow and stupid, and foggy in the brain.

    Thus I don't know how you can say that euphoria/energy is not leading to a clearer head. Tiredness and fog-brain are the opposite of energy/euphoria. But then again everyone is different, so maybe it works differently for you.

     
    Old 08-18-2006, 01:49 PM   #5
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    Re: Seeing PM&R doc, hope to get off demerol.

    Jesses5 and Shoreline,

    To my knowledge, I have never, ever taken a pill that made me feel euphoric.
    Never have I had a sense of "well being"

    "I've taken almost every kind of pain medicine. The only one that causes a sense of "euphoria" IN ME is hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco). It cures the pain, gives me energy, and so on." --- I understand these words, they make sense.
    IF a pill cured my pain and gave me energy I would think I had died and went to heaven. I have hydrocodone here, 5mg I think. Before my PM&R doctor , I was out of town and in a lot of pain. I don't remember how many vicodin I took, maybe a dozen in a day? Maybe more. It did NOT do a thing for me.

    "All others that I've taken (I haven't taken demerol), such as Morphine, Oxycontin, Dilaudid, and so on, do not cause any euphoria. They all make me tired, slow and stupid, and foggy in the brain."-----I understand these words and that is me exactly..tired, slow, stupid and foggy in the brain. YES, thank you for putting these words together for me.

    NO PILL has ever made me feel like the first quote. I wish they had. Nearly every pill I take makes me feel like the second quote. Now I wonder why I don 't ever seem to feel like the first quotation.

    Don't get me wrong, I have had many, many euphoric moments from my kids, hiking thru the mountains, scuba diving, playing sports. But for some reason these pills do not make me feel euphoric. The 180mg of morphine, the first time I took it several days ago, I didn't hurt for awhile, but I was "tired, slow and stupid, and foggy in the brain." No pain, but I'm as sharp as the leading edge of a fogbank.

    "Demi is a stronger kappa receptor binder so it causes more euphoria, or a false sense of well being. If you switch to a med that doesn't create as much euphoria, you have a clearer head, but if you relate that feeling to pain relief, it becomes hard to replace with drugs that create less euphoria."

    "Demi is a stronger kappa receptor binder so it causes more euphoria, or a false sense of well being."
    ----- 150mg of demi does nothing for me. It doesn't always relieve the pain anymore. It sort of dulls the pain some. Never, ever a sense of well being. Not from day one.

    "If you switch to a med that doesn't create as much euphoria, you have a clearer head, but if you relate that feeling to pain relief, it becomes hard to replace with drugs that create less euphoria." ---I think I understand what you are saying Dave, and I agree with your statement.

    One of the things I read from others is the feeling of euphoria. They might as well tell me how it feels to walk on the moon. I have no comphrehension of it.
    I do not remember any pill or med in my life making me feel euphoric. Maybe I am not "wired" right. I think I envy people who feel that way, but if I felt that way I might want more and more pills. Followed by addiction as opposed to dependency. Thank you for taking your time to explain this to me. I appreciate it.

     
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