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    Old 09-12-2007, 08:43 PM   #1
    72575
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    Running out early...

    I recently found a pain doc, maybe 6 months ago. I have seen her a number of times, usually every two weeks or at the longest once a month. She has put me on Oxycontin because she didn't want me on the short acting anymore.
    The problem I have run into with the Oxycontin is that it kinda pales in comparison to the Percocet that I was on before.
    I was taking 25mg of the short acting Percocet at a time, twice a day for my back pain. When she changed my medication to the long acting, she put me on 20mg twice a day and it did next to nothing for me. So she bumped it up to 20mg 3x a day and it didn't do much better.

    So recently she upped it to 40mg twice a day. This helped more than the 20s, for sure, but is still lacking.

    About two weeks ago I was running with the kids in the yard and my legs went completely dead and I wiped out flat on my face. Since then the pain has doubled, easily. There was no sleep, I found it hard to even eat and couldn't concentrate on anything. I decided that I would rather have a few weeks of relief than a month of suffering because the medicine wasn't strong enough. I began taking 80mg twice a day, sometimes a 40mg in between doses if I needed it. Things went great after that and the pain became manageable, probably a 3 on the "scale". I think that 1-10 scale is retarded, btw. lol

    Anyway, I called her office Monday morning and requested to speak with her about the accident I had with my legs and the added pain but I never heard back. I called again the next day a few times and asked for some short acting, even Tramadol, anything, because the pain was so severe lately. Never heard back. I called at the end of the day and was told by the receptionist that the doctor said that if I think it is that bad that I should go to the ER and see what they will do for me. I am honestly not making this up or adding any drama.
    I know dang well that the ER won't do a thing for someone seeing a pain doc, so I was puzzled and felt like she just didn't care.
    Later that night the pain was so bad again that I called the ER and asked if I came out there, per her instruction, if they could do anything for me and they confirmed what I knew already. At that point I requested they call her at home to authorize treatment, she did, and I went out and got a shot of Toradol and a script for 15, 5/325 Percocet, and an appointment for tomorrow afternoon.

    The problem now is that I have taken all the Oxycontin she had given me a few weeks back that was supposed to last a month and I have to see her tomorrow.
    I don't know whether to be honest with her or tell her that I still have the Oxycontin and have been taking it as directed, and hope like heck that she has it in her heart to give me some short acting to get me through the next week and a half until I get a refil of the long acting.

    One thing that bothers me about her is that she takes me for an ignorant hick or something. She tells me that 40mg 2x a day is a very large dose and with a dose that big that I can't have break through because I shouldn't need it.
    I have educated myself very well in all of this, because afterall it is a big part of my life and I take it very seriously. I have read on a regular basis on many boards for chronic pain that people with issues less than mine are on far more medication than I am getting, so I often wonder if she is lying to me or what the deal is.
    I'd like to see a new doctor but the other one in the area only gives shots and rarely prescribes meds. I've heard the shots make them a lot more $$ than prescriptions do, so I am reluctant to go to someone with that reputation.

    Anyways, I'm rambling here. Should I tell her that I have took all the pills, or should I lie? I'm afraid that if I tell her the truth she will refuse to see me again, and I honestly cannot live life in that kind of pain.

    Sorry for the long post.

     
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    Old 09-12-2007, 09:21 PM   #2
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    Re: Running out early...

    I hate to put a damper on your treatment, I know you most likely are having real pain but your actions are going to get you dropped from treatment altogether...Number one most PM doctors wont treat you if you are not following what the script dictates. She may want to do a pill count.Number two Most PM Drs dont want to be called from the ER asking permission to treat you as it may seem she is under treating you. Than comes the Paranoia some Drs may have due to the DEA cracking down...Im sorry if this response is a downer and Im sure you have real pain but after being under pain management for the past 8 years I have seen people dropped from treatment for a lot less reasons than youve stated...
    Good Luck and I hope you can keep yoour treatment

     
    Old 09-12-2007, 09:31 PM   #3
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    Re: Running out early...

    Well, I am hoping that she won't mind me going to the ER since she was the one that instructed me to do so. If she gets upset about that then I don't know why she would have said to go in the first place. If anyone should be upset it should be me after calling multiple times over the course of two days and just brushed off, then the $150 ER bill on top of that now because... because of whatever her thinking was.
    I pay $300 a visit and expect a little better than that. Granted, insurance covers the most of it, but still that is a lot of money. More than a lot of folks make in a week.

    I am frustrated in the first place, though, because she won't up the medication until we find a place where it is working well enough for me. She throws out a number, in my case 40mg OC twice a day, and says that is a lot and it should work. If it doesn't work, well... it should, so that's that. Very frustrating. There is really no point in taking it as prescribed if it isn't doing anything, is there? It just doesn't make sense to me at all.

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 01:43 AM   #4
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    Re: Running out early...

    I would not tell her you have been taking all your meds. I think she would consider that an abuse characteristic and probably not want to put herself in the position of treating you.

    I would just go and act as if all is good and ask if you can up your oxy to 60 mg 2x's a day. Don't say you are not getting any releif as that just makes you sound like you always want more. Say that you are getting some releif and that in your opinion a 10 or 20 more mills a day would put your pain in check. Patients that always tell the doctor it's not doing anything, makes the doctor pretty hot inside their collar.

    my 2 cents. Good luck.

    Please people don't put yourself in this position by chewing through your meds in half the time. Go back to the doc and tell them you need more meds. Or ask them more like it. A good old early appointment face to face would be better than multiple phone calls etc.

    I know it's hard, but they know what they are dealing with every day. There is nothing they have not heard or experienced.

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 02:26 AM   #5
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    Re: Running out early...

    You know what works a lot worse than 40 mgs of oxy twice a day? advil. and thats what you would be on if you went to any doctor I have been to.

    I dont want to scare you, but really, doctors want to know we are willing to listen to them, if they say they want us to stick it out on a certain dose, then we need to try and do that, and keep letting them know its not working.
    Then if they dont want to up our meds, ask for a referral to someone who will or look on your own.
    But taking it on yourself to double your dose is irresponsible in the extreme.
    I cannot in good faith as a member of this board tell anyone that it is wise to lie to their doctor, it just isnt. They cant help us if they dont know whats happening, and playing fast and loose with medications of this calibre can kill you quick.

    Please, If I were you I would at the most keep quiet, ask for nothing, and stick it out til my next refill and then try to stay on the prescribed doses, or try to find another doctor. Your doctor would probably know a lie when she heard it anyway. most people with the kind of meds you had prescribed would not bother going to the ER for an anti-inflammatory (toredol) and a few 5 mg percs, so shes going to have a pretty good idea whats going on anyway.

    I hope you are able to make it to your next fill and then find the relief you need, I am not trying to judge you or come down on you at all, I'm just sharing knowledge from what I have seen others here go through.

    Please post again and let us know what happened, we care.
    Your Friend, Fabby

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 04:54 AM   #6
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    Re: Running out early...

    HI......

    Unfortunately, you have broken the #1 cardinal rule in Pain Mgmt which is taking more medication than is prescribed by self medicating. It sounds like you are wanting ONLY short acting meds such as the Percocets you were on previously since they release immediately whereas the Oxycontins you are now being prescribed are time released. But you are on more meds now with her prescribing the Oxys 40mgs 2x/day when before you were on Percs 25mgs 2x/day. And you still upped it to anywhere between 160mgs - 200mgs a day ON YOUR OWN. You are walking a mighty fine line with your dr.

    IMO....and its just my opinion.....you might be better off seeking the advise/treatment of an Addictionologist since in your previous posts you have admitted to being an addict to different things from drugs to booze for quite a while. From my understanding, this type of dr might be able to help not only with your pain issues but also help break the addiction cycle. Or at the very least get to the bottom of the reason behind self medicating.

    I'm not judging here so don't take this post as a slam towards you. I'm just concerned that you will eventually find that NO LEGITIMATE DOCTOR will take you on as a patient to see to your pain issues. Whether or not to tell your current dr about going thru all the meds early is your decision only since you will be the only one who will have to suffer the consequences of it if she cuts you off. This is why dr's are hesitant to prescribe meds anymore. Its because there are those out there that self medicate and in turn the dr's come under scrutiny from it. Chances are your dr probably already knows you are out of meds early just by reading between the lines and seeing the signs. Plus, with the prescription monitoring systems that the individual states have in place, it is easy for health professionals to see all the particulars to scripts....who,what,where,when,how many,etc.

    Please be careful since your health can be severely compromised by self medicating even more so than just living with the pain. Try to keep to your allotted amount in between visits if they are as often as 2-3 weeks in between. Most dr's need to titrate the meds in order to find the right dosage for you and your needs. It is not uncommon for them to start off on a low dose and work their way up which yours did and you still upped it even more so than what you were taking before. And please don't get any from 'other' sources as you have posted about in the past. You never know what you may be getting since some could be outdated, counterfeit, (and illegal among other things).

    This probably doesn't help your situation but I'm just concerned that you are on a downward spiral that will make you hit rock bottom REAL FAST.

    Take care.....
    ~~~Kitt

    Last edited by kittencaboodle; 09-13-2007 at 04:56 AM.

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 05:39 AM   #7
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    Re: Running out early...

    Unfortunately, this is going to be a hard lesson learned for you. If you tell her the truth, she's going to drop you. If you don't, you'll be without your meds until your next refill. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Chewing through a double dose of your meds will get you in trouble every time. If you've been an addict before then you are in serious trouble. For me, if my pain were out of control I would just call my doctor and make an appointment. They usually can manage to fit in an emergency within a day or two. Don't wait around for your doctor to call. S/he probably has dozens of other calls to make first.

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 06:08 AM   #8
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    Re: Running out early...

    Sounds like you have a wonderful Dr. My Dr. only gives me 10MG Norco's 3 times a day. Does it help ? Very little . Let me tell you a story how I screwed myself up for med's.

    My prior PM Dr. had me on 60MG's of Morphine and 30 MG's of oxycodone a day. It helped so much with my pain but not all of it. Anyway , when my script was about to need refilled I called my PM Dr. only to find he left the area without telling me he was leaving so there I was out of meds and no other Dr. would refill them for me. I went nuts calling every Dr. around trying to get them to take over my care.. NO ONE would do it..I went through some serious withdraws for 2 weeks , sick on the couch in horrible pain..When I decided to go with the spinalcord stimulator to help with my pain this Dr. said he would take over my care for the implant..WELL he put me on Norco's10MG
    and thats all he will give me now..

    Its been 3 days without taking any of them , not that I'm out ,just so my body won't get used to the drug as it is. I'll wait a few weeks if I can then start em back up..You need to be very careful or you'll be shut off completly.

    By the way , I had 3 spine surgeries , and a spinalcord implant and a revision to add another lead along my spine for pain. I need stronger med's but since my old PM Dr. screwed me up I'm paying for it now I guess.

    Good luck

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 07:30 AM   #9
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    Re: Running out early...

    Shawley has a good point, he is on the 10 mg norco, I myself with a failed fusion and nerve damage, messed up knee and lower back, am only on 3 lortab 7.5's a day and 300 mg of tramadol. My doctor has offered to put me on methadone if I want, but my point here is that a lot of us arent on anywhere near the strength or doses you have been on, Its not easy to find a doctor even willing to prescribe that.

    You do deserve to have your pain treated, but let the doctor be in the drivers seat, if you dont like where one is going, get out and get with another one. Shawley lost his meds just for asking for non narcotics to help him come off a dependence, not an addiction. (He lost his meds when his doctor moved away suddenly and when no one else would fill his prescriptions, he went into withdrawal) (sorry Shawley hope I remembered that right!) Its very hard to get back there once you have a red flag, and no one on the medical side wants to listen to reasons, they have heard them all before from drugseekers.

    Good luck I hope we helped you and I really hope you arent offended, these really are honest and helpful answers here.We all are in this together, and that means you too.

    Hang in there, Fabby

    Last edited by Fabrashamx; 09-13-2007 at 07:44 AM.

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 09:30 AM   #10
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    Re: Running out early...


    Hi Ya Fabby --Yeah pretty much right , I ask for a lower dose narcotic to get me through the withdraws , but I did end up completly off them.. For a while . I would just be very careful asking for more than you already take. Its enough to knock over a horse now .

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 10:33 AM   #11
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    Re: Running out early...

    Well, things worked out great. I have an entirely new opinion of my doctor now. She was more caring and considerate than she has ever been, and rather than the regular 15 minute visit, we sat and talked and did some tests for an hour this time. An hour. That amazed me. I actually left the place for the first time feeling like I'd been heard for once and 100% satisfied with the service/treatment.

    However, I did not tell her that I took all the OC. I told her I still had some and was taking it as directed. I figured it was better to suffer for a week and a half, rather than risk getting cut off altogether. In the past with my family doctor, even when I had taken more than I was supposed to, as long as I was 100% honest about it he would keep seeing me. This is the first time I've had to lie and I was pretty uncomfortable with it.
    She agreed to give me a week worth of short acting on top of the OC, so I really lucked out there. Thank God she found it in her heart to do so. Lord knows I've been praying everything will work out.
    She also scheduled me for the surgeon for a visit again and ordered a nerve test. I just so happy I'm grinning ear to ear from the way things went today.

    As for the addiction problems... yeah. I still have some issues but have come a long way since going primarily on the long acting OC. I wasn't abusing them until just recently when I had the fall and all the pain that was out of control. I plan to get right back on track with the regular dose on the next refill and not look back. I have a plan worked out with my mother who lives 60 miles away, where she will leave me with 7 days worth of medication and take the rest with her until I see her again on Sundays. That way, even IF I go back to taking more than I should on a given day or two, it will be very limited and brief in nature due to the lack of medication on hand. The addiction problems are a primary concern of mine right now and I am really making strides to get over it. The recent setback was only due to the severe pain. Before that I was actually doing really well.

    So, in the end today, win/win.

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 10:42 AM   #12
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    Cool Re: Running out early...

    I'm so happy for you that your pain was addressed and you arent facing withdrawal, I am really glad to hear that you are being honest with yourself about your addiction issues,
    Next time you are tempted to burn through your meds so fast, remember how upset you were! I think if you stay on the prescibed doses and remember, if you want a med change, you need an appointment, none of them will even consider it over the phone, they wont usually even change doses of non narcotics that way.

    Everything one of us goes through, helps the rest of us learn, not only for ourselves but to relay to others. It makes this board such a great support system. Thanks for sharing what happened to you.

    Hugs, Fabby

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 11:27 AM   #13
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    Hey Fabby

    I am glad to hear things worked out for you...


    FABBY

    I was on 37.5 Tramadol, then went to 50mg. 4 X daily....They are doing absolutely nothing for me. I don't know how many YEARS I have been on Tram., but I won't ask for anything any stronger because I am afraid of being called a 'drug seeker'...

    What did you say your dose was...???? 300mg.??? how many times a day??

    I have been dealing with this pain for over 20 years now, and all I can get is Tramadol 50mg!!!! What kind of a difference are we talking about here Fabby. What is the maximun dose of Tram.? If I am on 50, and you are on 300...seems like I have been under-dosed for a long time.

    Can you tell me a little more about this?
    I had on the job auto accident in 1987...been through a bunch of tests, MRI, etc. They all say there is nothing surgical they can do for me...which I am glad to hear, but I need my pain managed. I do not want any more cortisone inj., Epidurals, facet rhizotomy's, etc. I just want to be a little more pain free than I am. Is Tramadol hard on the liver?

    I cannot take Aspirin, NSAIDS, Sulfa drugs, Neurontin, Methocarbomol, and a few other things I can't think of right now. It makes it rough being allergic to the NSAIDS, as I know I have inflammation.

    I have issues in the C ,T,and L Spine...(neck to tail bone) lol

    It just doesn't get any better as the years roll on. I was 41 when injured and I am now 61 and getting worse every day.

    Thanks for anything you can tell me.
    Mammy

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 12:39 PM   #14
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    Re: Running out early...

    Thats good news... Im glad you took the route of not telling her.. You may go through some discomfort but atleast you havent lost your current treatment...
    Good luck with your plan for giving the meds to your Mom to hold.. Hope that works out for you..

     
    Old 09-13-2007, 02:59 PM   #15
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    Re: Running out early...

    Hi Mammy,

    No, what I meant was that I take 50 mg. Tramadol (thats the strongest it comes in).
    I take 2 pills at once, 3 times a day, for a total of 300 mgs a day.

    Sorry I didnt make that clearer. I have been on them for well over a decade, and they still work for me, but I am considering switching to the methadone, has your doctor offered you that option? Hopefully you can switch to something that works better for you.

    HTH, Fabby

    Last edited by Fabrashamx; 09-13-2007 at 02:59 PM.

     
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