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  • Question about BT's without tylenol.

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    Old 03-11-2008, 08:29 PM   #1
    cmpgirl
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    Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Hi everyone: jrod's post got me thinking. I have a PM appointment on Thursday and I was going to talk to him about a BT without apap. I haven't had a liver screen in about 3 years (I know thats probably too long) and I've been concerned. With my current BT I'm getting 3500mg apap daily. I have so many other medical issues, the last thing I want is liver damage.

    My question is about effectiveness of say, roxicodone w/o the apap. I think I've either read somewhere, or probably saw here, that the opiates/opioids tend to lose much of it's potency when you remove the tylenol. Is this true? If so, would that mean a higher dose of BT would be needed to get the same effect my current BT gives?

    Thanks, cmpgirl

     
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    Old 03-11-2008, 08:40 PM   #2
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmpgirl View Post
    My question is about effectiveness of say, roxicodone w/o the apap. I think I've either read somewhere, or probably saw here, that the opiates/opioids tend to lose much of it's potency when you remove the tylenol. Is this true? If so, would that mean a higher dose of BT would be needed to get the same effect my current BT gives?
    I think you should try to get the acteminophen down to 3000mg/day or less. I still think the opiod/opiate is effective as long as you are getting some of the APAP in it. I guess it really depends on the person's response to a medication. I remember when I was taking the Oxycontin(LA)/Percocet(BT) that I was taking 20mg 2 (Oxycontin) and up to 4 Percocet (5/500) so I was getting a max of 2000mg APAP per day. Of course there is also the possiblity that the oxycodone in general is not working well for you. But just remember the good thing about a "true" opiate is that you can continue to increase the dose nearly indefintely. So with the straight oxycodone, I have heard of people taking 500mg/day of Oxycontin. The BIG, BIG opstacle is what the doc is willing to prescribe and what your insurance company is willing to pay for or their maximums. It may be time for you to switch your LA med but I don't remember exactly what you are taking med wise. Maybe some of that helps you out.

    Brian

     
    Old 03-11-2008, 09:00 PM   #3
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Hi Brian: I'm currently taking Oxycontin 20mg 3x/day with Vicodin 7.5/500,which was prescribed for up to 6/day. My LA was upped 3 months ago from 2x to 3x and I'm great with that. I actually went from 6 to 5 BT/day most days, because of the bump in the LA.

    My biggest concern is the tylenol. I'm very careful about it. I don't take any other medications that contain it and I stopped drinking completely about 6 years ago, but I've always been around 3500 to 4000 mgs of the apap and I feel like its time to do something about that. Thanks, cmpgirl

     
    Old 03-11-2008, 09:07 PM   #4
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    I would suggest going to the Norco which would be 7.5/325 so if you were taking 6 of those would be 1950mg. This would be a very good level to stay at so there you go boom bada bing, forget about it I'm a little tired and slap happy at the moment.

    Brian

     
    Old 03-11-2008, 10:03 PM   #5
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Thanks Bri: One more question, I promise. Is Norco true morphine or synthetic? I can't take morphine....bad reaction once.

    ***REMOVED******

    Get a good nights sleep tonight. (((((hugs))))) cmpgirl

    Last edited by M08; 03-12-2008 at 05:55 AM. Reason: T.V. Shows are considered off-topic conversation.

     
    Old 03-11-2008, 10:14 PM   #6
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Dear cmpgirl,

    The Norco has the hydrocodone in it (the same stuff that's in the Vicodin). I think the Norco has the lower amount of Tylenol (APAP) in it.

    By the way, we'll discuss the whole "bada bing" thing at a later date! In fact, I'll write it down so I don't forget! We should now all be worried, right?

    Sincerely,
    Jon (Conductor)

     
    Old 03-11-2008, 10:31 PM   #7
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Thanks Jon: I'm seeing my doc on Thurs. and I'll talk to him about the Norco. Looks like Brian went to bed. I hope so, the poor darlin. He's exhausted!

    Thanks again Jon. I wish you a peaceful and restful night. cmpgirl

     
    Old 03-12-2008, 06:51 AM   #8
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Hey cmpgirl,
    I am glad I am not the only one that was worried about the Tylenol. I just hope it works just as good, if not better than the percs without the Tylenol!
    Like I said, we all just wanna be better, and alot of times we fight through the pain, especially with family...i.e. my 2 year old....and we definetely don't want to be on pills forever, but i think if we do have to be on them for a while, we would all like it to be done the safest way, and that seems to be with less Tylenol in us. I think we all have enough problems, and throwing a liver disease on top of it, just because we want to feel better, would suck!
    Good luck everyone!
    Jarrod

     
    Old 03-12-2008, 08:20 AM   #9
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    cmpgirl,

    My PM switched me from Perc 10/325 to Roxi 15mg for BT. Because of the switch, I was able to increase the BT from 4x a day when needed when using the Perc to 6x a day when needed with the Roxi 15mg. I had originally asked for an increase in the number of Perc that I could take in a day, short-term, to control some pain that was associated with additional activity and the radio frequency ablation I went through a few weeks back. Like I said, it was the doctor that insisted I switch to a non-APAP based BT medication - not me. He was concerned with the potential increased APAP I would be taking if I had increased the number of Percs per day. He also informed me that switching to a non-APAP solution would allow me to controll my own intake of Tylenol as needed - within the 4,000mg limit (Advil and alike rip my stomach). For me, it was a good solution and made sense due to the relationship with increased liver issues and Tylenol. The bottom line was that I was able to increase the level of BT if needed, increase the amount of BT if needed, avoid the issues with too much APAP and ultimately allow me to have a little more controll over the additional Tylenol when needed. A good PM will recognize the importance of a switch to non-APAP if the Tylenol issue arises.

    Mac

     
    Old 03-12-2008, 08:49 AM   #10
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Well, I just got a call that he changed it to no Tylenol Oxycodone, 5 mg two at a time....I had left a message suggesting he give me 15mg since I know my tolerance.....I know this will not work, and I am going to have to call him in like a week and say it needs to be increased anyways. Why wouldn't he just listen to me!.....rrrrrr

     
    Old 03-12-2008, 10:47 AM   #11
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    Thanks everybody: It really is a great thing to be able to go in for a PM visit armed with additional knowledge. I didn't have that before joining here. I have a really great PM who has always worked WITH me. I know he trusts my judgement when it comes to what I'm feeling. But, evena really good Pm doc has his limitations. They have to work with so many different types of pain and different people's needs.

    Jrod: Sounds like your doc's just being cautious, frustrating though that may be, But hopefully he's just following protocol and will adjust you accordingly next time. I'll send good thoughts!

    Mac: It's good to hear your experience with the change of meds. I like the idea of being able to control just how much apap I put into my body.

    John (jjsx): I will definitely take a look on the web, like you suggested.

    Again, thanks to all for the ever-present support that makes this the great site that it is. Good thoughts, blessings and a peaceful day to all, cmpgirl

     
    Old 03-12-2008, 06:54 PM   #12
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    Re: Question about BT's without tylenol.

    I was switched from Percocet to Roxicodone 15mg (oxycodone with no APAP). The APAP in the Percocet definitely potentiates (increases) the effectiveness of the oxycodone. My doc told me that. He also said that w/ the Roxicodone I can take Tylenol with it, and that will help a little, and it does. I am down to needing 1 breakthrough dose per day, which is actually 3-4 Roxi's - they just don't work that well for me anymore - and I take 2 extra strength tylenol with it (1,000mg). I stay at a very safe level of Tylenol per day, but get that little boost to the Roxi's. Good luck!
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