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  • wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

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    Old 06-24-2009, 06:48 PM   #1
    justmeplease
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    wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    I have a problem that I do not know how to solve, I was under the care of a pain management doctor and was following his orders, which we decided we need to part ways. but I also was under the care of other doctors who when I had surgery gave me pain meds, unknowningly I filled the script but I called my pain doc and told them after I was woke up enough from the surgery well they seemed to think I got pain meds from other doctors which I did not and when I did I called and told my pain doc what happened. Now my reg doc and my pain doc says they no longer wants a doc and patient relationship because I am trying to get meds from other docs, but when you look at the scrip thing I get what they are saying but they have been from surgeries not from me just going to the doctors for meds and nothing else. ok fine so be it. But I am to have a knee scope done soon, which we waited for almost 2 years until all other avenues did not work and also possible spinal L4-L5 fusion and I am afraid those docs will not give me any pain meds after the surgery to help recover. I am not sure what to do or what to say to the doctors who are to do the surgeries. The pain doc was even going on about me getting pain meds from doctors before I even began seeing him. I have a kidney disease which I produce stones like babies, plus the back problems, which I hope to get fixed soon. I am afraid those docs can ruin and get it to where no doctor will talk to me because I WAS following doctors orders and because I was now I feel like I am the one being punished. I swear to you I am afraid and stressed that now I will be labeled a pain addict when I would prefer not to take them. Can someone please help me understand this and maybe what are the protocals for stuff like this. I have not recieved a letter from any state officials saying that I am in trouble. Just letters from the docs saying we need to parts ways

     
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    Old 06-24-2009, 07:19 PM   #2
    brianpain33
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Did you sign a contract with the pain management doctor? If you did it probably states that you are only allowed to get narcotic medication from them. This means not getting them from ANY other doctor. There have been countless people on these boards that were let go because they got pain meds from their surgeon, neurologist, etc. YOU CAN NOT GET ANY OTHER PAIN MED FROM ANY OTHER DOCTOR BESIDES YOUR PM DOCTOR if you have signed a contract.

    If you are having surgery or consulting with a surgeon you need to let them know that you are under the treatment of a PM doctor and receiving medications from them. This is why it is SO IMPORTANT to tell your surgeon and PM doctor about each other. You should have asked BEFORE the surgery about who would be treating your pain. The PM doctors are usually fine with the surgeon providing you medications after a surgery as long as YOU HAVE TOLD THEM BEFORE THE SURGERY. That is the key to tell them before the surgery and not have them find out afterward which sounds like happened to you.

    Did you try to explain to your PM doctor what happened and that it was a mistake that you made? If you are going to be having surgery, then you will have to let the surgeon give you pain medications since you don't have a PM doctor now. Hopefully, this will be a lesson learned by you that you need to follow the PAIN CONTRACT exactly no exceptions. I am sorry that you are without a PM doctor but hopefully you will not need one now and the surgery will correct your pain. However, if you do need one in the future then just explain to them what happened and that you were not intentionally doctor shopping. This is also against the law so it is no joke and another reason that the FDA wants to put more rules and restrictions in place so that this can not happen (doctor shopping I mean).

    brian

     
    Old 06-24-2009, 07:35 PM   #3
    justmeplease
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    the funny part of this is that I told my PM doc about the surgeries and about the ER visits etc, even when he was the one on a few occasions to send me to the er, and this has been months when it happened. And yes it is a lesson learned. But I am not sure how to tell the doc when I have the knee scope soon how I no longer have a PM doctor, which he knew I did that is why he told me to ask my PM doctor who is to prescribe the pain med for the surgery. I did apologize to the PM doc and reminded him on conversations we had about the meds he was talking about but it is was it did not matter. and what to do in the future. I strongly think now I will never go to a PM doctor again. now I feel like I am a big screw up, I did what they told me to do and I still get in trouble I feel like.

     
    Old 06-24-2009, 07:41 PM   #4
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Did the PM doctor tell you it was ok to get pain meds from the surgeon when you had your prior surgery? Or did you even ask him about it? If you just told him you were having surgery and did not ask about who was to prescribe the pain meds then that is where you run into trouble.

    brian

     
    Old 06-24-2009, 07:59 PM   #5
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Then that is the problems, I told them about the surgery but I did not know that I was suppossed to ask the PM for pain meds for after the surgery. Ok so so I am learning a lot from you Brian, but now I have no pain doc and I have been released from him and the knee scoop is next week and i am not sure how to tell the doc that he has cna wrtie the pain pain meds and future are for me. But also the same thing I have to do when I told to my back sugerion,

     
    Old 06-24-2009, 08:26 PM   #6
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    I am so sorry you have to go through this and more and more I just have to shake my head...it is all so crazy the way they make these pain doctors some sort of know it alls and they don't. I think a person would have to get yourself a lawyer just to navigate this most bizarre system and to be sure your patient rights are not violated....and it sounds to me like they are violating you all over the place. Since the pain clinic and you have parted ways then drop it from your vocabulary. You don't need to tell your next doctor or anyone anything about the pain clinic and it is confidential information that no one can find out about even doctors unless of course you mention it. If your knee and back surgeon need to do surgery then they will certainly cover your pain while you are in and out of the hospital. I think if anyone suggested a pain clinic or pain doctor I would never go. I have no idea what is going on between these current doctors but if you can just get away from this situation and those doctors and that so called pain management place and never ever tell anyone of what they did to you or even suggest you were there. You should never be made to feel like you feel and it is not their place to assume or accuse you of anything and if they made it so that others in your area won't treat you then you have a couple of legal options and I would certainly take it. Your state has a board of physicians that you can write a complaint to that you have been badly treated and of course a lawyer. I believe you 100% but you must be careful not to mention anything about this to any other future medical persons and certainly never go back to these doctors. I would also request a copy of all my medical records from both the pain management place and the doctor that also won't treat you. You may have to pay for the copies of your records but you will want a record in case you need to seek legal help just to get relief from pain. These are just some of my thoughts on your situation...and I am sorry that you have been made to feel like some sort of drug addict or whatever because what they are doing to you isn't right.

     
    Old 06-24-2009, 08:26 PM   #7
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    I would just be flat out honest with the surgeon and tell them that you made a mistake the last time you had surgery by getting meds from the surgeon and did not know that you were breaking your pain management contact. Tell them you were "let go" from the pain management doctor that you were seeing. It is best to be honest and hopefully he will understand and treat you fairly. He has to give you pain meds after the surgery but just make sure that you tell him you are no longer under the care of a PM doctor. If you are still having problems even after the surgery with pain continuing and you need to see a PM doctor sometime down the road then ask for a referral from the surgeon or ask for a referral from your primary care physician. If you do get a PM doctor in the future just be honest with them too and make sure you follow the rules to a T.

    brian

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 01:10 AM   #8
    justmeplease
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    NA the funny thing is that I had a funny feeling going to this PM doctor and also when I first went to him he made a comment that he did not know why I was seeing him since that my pain is caused from stuff that is fixable and once it is fixed I should be ok. which is what I am thinking really also. but I did it to follow docs orders. I am to see the knee surgeron on monday, my daughter sees him for her ankle and i am going to let him know that I and the PM doc parted ways. and in a way just hopes he doesn't ask for any more info to be honest. The funny thing is I am not sure if I am even red flagged as I think they say on getting meds period from pharmacy's/ No one has told me that I am not. so I am not sure what the heck is going on. to be honest on that part.

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 07:41 AM   #9
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justmeplease View Post
    The funny thing is I am not sure if I am even red flagged as I think they say on getting meds period from pharmacy's/ No one has told me that I am not. so I am not sure what the heck is going on. to be honest on that part.
    The term "red flagged" gets thrown around a lot and it's widely misunderstood. There isn't any official "system" that I know of....Not universal anyway. Now, someone may be "red flagged" in a pharmacy computer system for example, or "red flagged" at Doc's office.....But, if one starts fresh somewhere else, those issues don't normally follow you around. I guess one's medical records may, but what I'm referring to is that there isn't some system one is red flagged in that the whole world sees.

    In your case, it sounds as if there was some misunderstanding between you and the PM and you all agreed to part ways. To be honest, it sounds as if the PM wasn't too concerned because he made the comment that he wasn't even sure why you were there. Many PMs will only treat those with "chronic" pain...Pain that is persistent and isn't expected to go away...Ever. Conversely, "acute" pain is pain that is temporary and is either fixable, or will improve over time.

    If you move forward and are honest with Docs and they don't think you are trying to pull something, most will work with you. This board is full of people who have had similar problems.

    Best of luck to you.

    Regards,

    Ex

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 08:16 AM   #10
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Executor View Post
    The term "red flagged" gets thrown around a lot and it's widely misunderstood. There isn't any official "system" that I know of....Not universal anyway. Now, someone may be "red flagged" in a pharmacy computer system for example, or "red flagged" at Doc's office.....But, if one starts fresh somewhere else, those issues don't normally follow you around. I guess one's medical records may, but what I'm referring to is that there isn't some system one is red flagged in that the whole world sees.

    In your case, it sounds as if there was some misunderstanding between you and the PM and you all agreed to part ways. To be honest, it sounds as if the PM wasn't too concerned because he made the comment that he wasn't even sure why you were there. Many PMs will only treat those with "chronic" pain...Pain that is persistent and isn't expected to go away...Ever. Conversely, "acute" pain is pain that is temporary and is either fixable, or will improve over time.

    If you move forward and are honest with Docs and they don't think you are trying to pull something, most will work with you. This board is full of people who have had similar problems.

    Best of luck to you.

    Regards,

    Ex
    Ex theyare working on local system first,, tied by the computers which shows them when XX person filled meds on narcotics. thats what i'm told,,

    its been coming along time to ty doctors and pharmacies together so ppl trying to skirt the system or doctor shop will be stopped. i totally understnd how someone could get in trouble but still they are warned,, i know i was told of the consiquences if i went anywhere else.. This is a hot topic where i live as they been arresting ppl over the last few days here in town for this exact problem.. So how do you fix it?

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 12:20 PM   #11
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Here in Ohio where I live there is a State run database that tells a pharmacist or doctor of any controlled substance that you have filled, the date, med name, etc. It even showed the Lyrica that I take as well as Ultram that I used to take even though it's not a scheduled medication. Many states already have these systems in place.

    brian

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 12:48 PM   #12
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    We do not have that system right now, but I found that Georgia is starting it in July of this year. It will be interesting to see how it works. Does anyone know if this is something that begins to "monitor" your meds going forward from July 1st or does it go back to the beginning of you receiving meds?

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 03:56 PM   #13
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    It doesn't sound like what you did was that bad. Interestingly, I saw my pain doctor today and I am having surgery in about a week. My surgeon told me that he would be managing my pain after surgery for a while. I asked my PM doc what this meant in terms of my contract, and she kind of laughed and said that the contract would obviously allow for additional treatment immediately after surgery, and that as long as she knows about what the surgeon is doing, everything will be fine. She is not super-strict though.

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 06:46 PM   #14
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Get this I did tell my PM doc about the surgeries and heck the time I told him about an er visit when I was visiting my parents in OK when he was doing a disco gram and I was explaining to him what had happened. While I was telling him that I went to a local doctor (because I was actually about to move back to OK) and he started an IV and then gave me varsed (sp) and then things kinda got looping after that. I also called him nurse and told her about the last surgery Oh by the way was on the 18th. and reminded her about the pain med, the strength etc and she said ok. I asked her if my PM doc needed to see me she said hold on and she said she went to go ask him and she told me he said no that I just need to go get my back fixed my the doctor who needs to do the surgery. My husband even went with me to see the pain doctor to even tell him she has not been doing what you think. Well whe nthe doc would say well this doc prescribed this or this doc did this my husband would tell him no you have it wrong this is what happened and she did not get this filled she was in the ER and that was a shot they gave her for pain, He even told me he would prefer to let me go so he can cover his own butt. I looked at my records in a way and there was no note on me calling last thursday. So I think he did not really know about the call about the surgery and thought that I did it on purpose which to be honest if I was him I would think that also. But I am just going to be honest and prove them all wrong. In TN there has been a monitoring system in place for a while now. I have a friend who is a RN and she said that TN is the worst because people like me who actually have a problem are the ones who get shafted and she thinks that I got shafted and also doctors not keeping good records which is what happened. And I got screwed in the end for following doctor's orders. so my release from the PM doc says that I did not follow doctors treatment plans, which to be honest I really did not we did not see eye to eye about my treatment plan I even asked to be weaned off and he thought that I was silly for asking, but I knew the longer I was on the meds the harder it will be. Plus when my problems do get fixed I would be in no need for a PM doctor in my opoinon(sp) and within the last month is when all this happened on me not needing him and the weaning part. Funny thing is that my husband is the one who wanted me to go see the PM doctor. I actully had a bad feeling from the get go about going to one. I should have listened to my instincts.

     
    Old 06-25-2009, 07:03 PM   #15
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    Re: wrongly accused, can someone help me understand please.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by broke as a joke View Post
    Ex theyare working on local system first,, tied by the computers which shows them when XX person filled meds on narcotics. thats what i'm told,,

    its been coming along time to ty doctors and pharmacies together so ppl trying to skirt the system or doctor shop will be stopped. i totally understnd how someone could get in trouble but still they are warned,, i know i was told of the consiquences if i went anywhere else.. This is a hot topic where i live as they been arresting ppl over the last few days here in town for this exact problem.. So how do you fix it?
    Yes, many states have a database for cross checking Rx....My state has one....Every controlled Rx has to be entered into the state database...It's accessible by Docs and pharmacists. The primary purpose of the database is to prevent Doc shopping.

    However, my point is that there is no "red flag" system...i.e. your name / history isn't flagged or tabulated in any way. They can't pull up "John Doe" and see any type of red flag, probation, or whatever you want to call it.

    The purpose of the system is for Docs and pharmacist to check the database to see if the patient in question is obtaining scripts from more than one person. Your entire Rx history is there, but no "red flags" or etc are indicated by one's name or profile.

    Regards,

    Ex

     
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