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    Old 08-18-2009, 08:49 AM   #1
    XBOX4EVR
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    Low Testosterone

    I'm 29 and take 4 norco per day, I worked out with weights for a long time and never had a problem with the norco. I weighed about 175 I quit working with weights and dropped to 160. Ever since I stopped working with weights the medication has affected me a lot stronger. I had my testosterone checked and it was 193 for my age the doctor said it should be between 400 - 500. Is it common for narcotics to lower testosterone that much. Since I stopped working with weights I also get mood swings easily and tired also. I noticed almost all my symptoms started happening once i stopped lifting weights. Maybe weight lifting counteracted the narcotics?

    If anyone else has any knowledge with this let me know thank you.

     
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    Old 08-18-2009, 09:21 AM   #2
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Yes, working out can counter some of the effects of taking narcotics. First and foremost, you release natural endorphins (after any excercise) which will dramatically improve your well being. Secondly, when you work out, especially with weights, your body produces some T and HGH.

    If you elect to go on HRT, you can still work out and would help counter many of the effects of low T. Additionally, you don't have to worry about becoming some huge muscle bound person with HRT....The Docs will only take you up to around "average" of your age group. Ideal level is upper third, but some won't go that high. The overall purpose of HRT is to get back what you lost.

    Regards,

    Ex

     
    Old 08-18-2009, 02:08 PM   #3
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    XBOX4EVER, (You must really love your X-Box, LOL!)

    ANyways I have also been taking Opiates for many years and like you I used to workout many years ago and when I stopped, I dropped in weight significanly and experienced similar feelings to how you felt from the medication.

    The only thing thats odd for you is that your tolernace has remainedvery stable for so many years of taking opiates. It's amazing that you are not needing 12 a day to make it.

    ANyways that aside I'm sure working out will counter some of the effects of low T-Levels but not fully because I have been working out hardcore for the last four/five months and recently I got a T-level test and it was only 228. Also working out just takes so much out of me, I don't know how I have done it as long as I have.

    In other words it can;t be this grueling to workout otherwise no one would workout that hard. For me a hradcore workout takes so much out of me I can;t even begin to explain.

    I;m seeing my doc tomorrow and hope to start on some sort of T therapy. If I may ask has your doctor started you or sugested that you start some sort of HRT treatment.

    I'm sure working out will raise your T-Levels but no where near where they should be at least that is my opnion. Although I do smoke and maybe that is another factor that keeps my T-levels low. But set the smoking aside and assuming I workout and ate perfect everyday I don't think my T-levels would be over 300. But I;m sure they would be somewhat improved as Ex stated.

    Also be careful of soy milk or soy protein isolate. I was taking alot of that stuff and after a while of doing that instead of feeling stronger I noticed I was just not having the same energy as before, I actually felt weaker and didn;t have that push. If you work out alot I;m sure you know what i mean about the push.

    Anyways you have to be careful of lots of soy or soy protein Isolate which is add on in more products than you can imagine. I was eating lots and lots of protein bars and alot of them use soy protein instead of whey or cassein. probably since it's cheaper. or jamba Juice type drinks, offer soy protein and lot of there drink have soy milk in them and also just alot of different things like oatmeals and you name it add soy protein isolate to there products. Check you ingreadients before you shop and you will be shocked.

    Anwyas like I was saying I found out the lots of soy protein can raise estrogen levels, this one guy I read about even started growing boobs. As soon as I stopped the soy protein I noticed a marked increase in my strength and ability to give that extra push, even though I still know that on account of my Low T that I still don't have any where near the push I used to have.

    SOrry for the long Post

    Last edited by Leo123; 08-18-2009 at 02:13 PM.

     
    Old 08-18-2009, 03:59 PM   #4
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    if i quit the opiates will my T go back up.

     
    Old 08-18-2009, 08:54 PM   #5
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by XBOX4EVR View Post

    if i quit the opiates will my T go back up.
    Yes, it will. Once you stop opiates, all your bodily functions eventually return to normal....i.e no longer constipated, metabolism increases, and etc.

    Regards,

    Ex

     
    Old 08-19-2009, 02:00 PM   #6
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    I eat a lot of veggies and especially fruits i eat 2 bananas and 2 apples a day. I really don't get constipated. I think the constipation has to do with how you eat.

     
    Old 08-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #7
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    XBOX,

    Honestly your only taking 4 norco a day which is considered a fairly low dose especially for a chronic pain patient of many years.

    Actually you are evry lucky that your tolernace has remained so stable and you have been able to get releif from such a low amount of Hydro.

    What i;m saying is only 4 norco a day will probably not give you too much constipation problems, actually you probably get good movement at that dose.

    I also wonder considerig you are at such a low dose how much the opiates are really affecting your T-levels. It might be alot, but I take like ten times what you take a day and I think my test would have been way higher had I been only on 4 norco a day.

    SO if your T-Level test was very low there maybe another factor here at play than just the opiates. If you can of course stop taking the Norco for a few months and see what happens to your T-levels, but I suspect they will still be fairly low and you may still need some HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy).

    Ex, do you think only taking 4 norco's a day be much of an affect on your T-levels, Versus somebody who is taking 5 Avinzas 120mg a day plus 30mg Oxy for break through.?

    All I;m saying XBOX is I'm worried something else maybe at play because of your low T-levels. (Other than just the Norco)

     
    Old 08-19-2009, 08:44 PM   #8
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post

    Ex, do you think only taking 4 norco's a day be much of an affect on your T-levels, Versus somebody who is taking 5 Avinzas 120mg a day plus 30mg Oxy for break through.?
    It's really hard to say. Side effects from meds tend to come in waves....Meaning that all is fine until you get to some level and then bam...there is a problem. Then, you have the problem until some higher amt and then it gets worse.

    For example, think of constipation with pain meds. Most of us don't have much, if any, until we get to a certain level or dose. Then, it shows up and we have to take some type of fiber therapy or whatever. The constipation can stay at about the same level despite dose increases until one gets to a higher dose level (whatever that level is) and then, it gets worse or becomes an issue again, so the fiber needs to be increased again.....And so on.

    So, to answer your question re: T levels, the Pit gland will be depressed with a certain amt of pain meds....And (4) Hydros per day over an extended period of time is more than enough to do it. So, it will become depressed, but will still function....A la the T level of 200-300 per the test.

    Comparing, two people is very hard because one person's tolerance may be much larger so what takes one level to cause a certain side effect may take a whole different amt / level for the next person.

    What we do know is this....Narcotics DO cause low T and the more you take, the lower it goes. However, everyone has a different "set point" of natural T....No two people are alike. For example, your "natural" level (no meds) may be 700 and his may be 400. Two people can vary greatly. According to the labs, the distribution curve for all men is 70-1,300. Talk about a range!

    People who are taller, leaner, more athletic, larger genitalia, and etc., have higher T levels than those who don't posses these traits. Same goes for women. Women who are lean, and have more natural muscle than most, have higher natural T levels.

    Conversely, overweight people, especially those who are obese, have very low T levels. This is what makes comparing two people very difficult. It makes sense when you think of a person with high T as being a lean, muscular, metabolizing machine. Younger people have much higher T than older people and that's why they are leaner and have higher metabolisms.

    I wouldn't read anything more into the level other than it's very low.

    Hope this helps and doesn't make one more confused.

    Regards,

    Ex

     
    Old 08-20-2009, 12:21 AM   #9
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    I've been told that 4 norco is more then enough to drastically lower your t-level I mean that's still 8 vicodin thats a lot of narcotic. I'm 5'11 and weigh about 160 (barefoot without clothes) before I stopped working out I never had a problem what so ever on the medication and weighed about 175 with muscle. It's when I stopped working out is when every thing changed also I've been under the most stress I've ever been under in my entire life I take care of my baby while my wife works. My doctor said being under stress can drastically lower your t-lvl. Plus another thing is that I took the blood test at 7 o clock at night and my doc says that's a really bad time to take a t-test because it dips at night you always want to take it in the morning. That's why he is retesting me on monday.

    This was my t-lvl a month prior when I took it towards the morning.
    TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 239 >245- ng/dL

    Last edited by XBOX4EVR; 08-20-2009 at 12:32 AM.

     
    Old 08-20-2009, 06:14 AM   #10
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by XBOX4EVR View Post

    Plus another thing is that I took the blood test at 7 o clock at night and my doc says that's a really bad time to take a t-test because it dips at night you always want to take it in the morning. That's why he is retesting me on monday.
    Yes, your Doc is correct in that T levels are higher in the AM. This is why men get the early am erections. In fact, an absence of which is a big sign that T is too low.

    However, your T level is so low, that I don't think it matters when you are tested. Time will tell though.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Ex

     
    Old 08-21-2009, 12:05 AM   #11
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    If it matters I had my t-lvl checked when i was 25 because i kept complaining of fatigue and it was 463 so maybe mine is naturally low not sure if 463 is low or not.

    Also i think everyone thats been on pain meds knows depending on whats happen to you or whats wrong with you. The more meds you take the lower your tolerance to any kind of pain in general is and the pain is never as bad as you think it is. I've been wanting to get off them for a while now this t-lvl thing is more then enough motivation for me to get off them at least for a little while see how i do without them.

    Last edited by XBOX4EVR; 08-21-2009 at 12:09 AM.

     
    Old 08-21-2009, 07:41 AM   #12
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by XBOX4EVR View Post

    If it matters I had my t-lvl checked when i was 25 because i kept complaining of fatigue and it was 463 so maybe mine is naturally low not sure if 463 is low or not.
    Yes, for a 25 year old, that is low. That would be an ok level for someone in their 40s getting HRT.

    Ex

     
    Old 08-26-2009, 06:08 PM   #13
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Do you guys know anything about this stuff, these are some of the results i got back.

    PROLACTIN 8 <-- My result (2-18 ng/mL)

    LH (LUTEINIZING HORMONE)
    LH 5.5 <--- My result (1.0-12.0 mIU/mL)

    i think i'm waiting for more also but i've gotten these back so far.

     
    Old 08-27-2009, 10:17 AM   #14
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Not 100%v sure of those but your overall T-level of 463 is not that bad. It is considered low, but not very low like alot people who take alot of opiates are usually in the 100's. Mine was 238, Which was pretty low.

    I'm not so sure your doc will put you on T treatment at that level. How old are you again if you don't mind me asking.

    Also I just went to the doc today and I'm getting my LH and FHS LEVELS checked. Since the first test I had only checked my overall T count.

     
    Old 08-27-2009, 01:11 PM   #15
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    Re: Low Testosterone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leo123 View Post

    Not 100%v sure of those but your overall T-level of 463 is not that bad. It is considered low, but not very low like alot people who take alot of opiates are usually in the 100's. Mine was 238, Which was pretty low.
    I don't mean to disagree, but I would argue differently. The poster is 29, so he falls in the 25-29 group which the mean is 669 and median is 637. The 5th percentile is 388, the 10th percentile is 438, and the 95th percentile is 1008. Thus, he is somewhere between the 10th and 15th percentile for his age group. You want to be at least average, but preferably upper third (70th).

    For the 30-34 group, the mean is 621 and the median is 597. The 5th percentile is 348 and the 95th percentile is 975.

    A T level of 463 falls in the 50th percentile range of 75-84 year old men, where the mean is 471 and the median is 450. Just as an fyi, the range for 85-100 year old men, the mean is 376.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Ex

    Last edited by Executor; 08-27-2009 at 01:17 PM.

     
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