It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Pain Management Message Board

  • Being Dismissed

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 06-30-2014, 05:04 PM   #1
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Being Dismissed

    So I'm not sure how much help anyone here can be because I have a feeling this is all my fault.

    This is my first time being at a PM doctor and the last four months things have been crazy with me. I've had to go to the ER multiple times in the last 3-4 months because of my knee getting injured, falling on cement stairs and hurting my ribs, shingles, cysts, and then when my back was starting to hurt worse and my PM doctor refused to see me. I was not aware that even in the ER I was not allowed to get pain medicine. And the only reason I've accepted them from ER's is because I'm not going to take my back pain medication that I get from my PM doctor and then run myself out! It's insane.

    And they've had these records for all these months and only this month did they bring it up. I tried to tell them what has been going on and the nurse was VERY nasty to me. She said, "I don't understand how you couldn't understand that this is a PAIN management facility and that you aren't allowed to get any medication except from the doctor you see."

    I tried to explain to her that when they came in the first time with the contract details I was told that I couldn't get any pain medicine from regular doctors. Even when I called the PM office a few times back in April I think about how the pain was starting to get worse and there was a painful grinding happening in my back they said to go to the ER. So I'm really confused and upset because now I'm going to get dismissed and I have none of my medication to at least get me through the next month until I can maybe find another doctor.

    The only thing I've done to maybe help is called my insurance company because my case management nurse has always told me to call her if anything happened with my PM doctor. So I called her and told her the situation and she is going to try and talk to them so that they won't dismiss me and maybe have me come in for monthly tests to make sure I'm taking my medicine since I told her I'd be more than happy to do so. But, they were REALLY nasty to me and I don't want to keep going through this pain. I don't like being treated like that and especially when I've never seen a doctor like this before and have no history of abusing medicine.

    I know for a fact that my primary care doctor won't help me because he was the one who referred me to this doctor after I saw him once about my back when I first moved to Mississippi.

    In case anyone is wondering what my conditions are, they are degenerative disc disease, and SI joint dysfunction. And this doctor only had me on Meloxicam 7.5 mg once a day, and Norco 7.5mg one pill three times a day.

    I'm REALLY stressing out about this and I don't want to have this like a black mark on my record at only 23.

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 06-30-2014, 06:30 PM   #2
    tortoisegirl
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Location: Washington
    Posts: 1,204
    tortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    Sorry you are going through this. So they didn't give you any meds to taper down with? Maybe they (incorrectly) thought that at your low dose you'd be ok, plus 3 Norco a day isn't technically around the clock since they don't last 8 hours. I hope you will have only minimal withdrawal, as the pain is plenty to deal with.

    Thats great you have an advocate at your insurance...I've never heard of that. The only things I can think of are to review the contract you signed to ensure you actually violated one of the rules on it, and to bring up to them that you were told to go to the ER. But if you violated a rule you signed that you understood, despite the extenuating circumstances, they have reason to dismiss you.

    How much other medication are we talking? They (or any future PM doc considering taking you on) may look differently upon a prescription for 5 Vicodin vs. a prescription for 100 Percocet. Or was it literally only IV meds while you were there? It probably doesn't help that it was numerous times in a short period of time though.

    I think its messed up for a PM doc's office to have no provision for getting meds from other doctors for acute pain. It unreasonable to expect a patient to be able to wait and go in to see them. Mine allows for short term prescriptions for acute pain from other doctors provided you notify them afterwards. My doctor was even helpful in working with another doctor prior to a dental surgery I had, to ensure I'd get enough pain relief.

    I hope you're able to find another pain clinic that will take you on. Its tough to get good pain management, let alone at a young age. Best wishes.
    __________________
    Kate
    constant headache since 2006

     
    Old 06-30-2014, 06:51 PM   #3
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    Well, for one thing, my PM doctor's nurse specifically told me to go to the ER if my pain got worse. And I've only gotten IV medication twice. Once was in February because I had pleurisy and bronchitis because my PCP's Nurse Practictioners thought I had asthma instead of what I actually did. And the other time was just recently like last weekend, not this weekend, but the weekend of the 21st when I went in and thought I was having a gallbladder attack. I was in tremendous pain and had been throwing up constantly for three days.

    I kept refusing to go to the ER because I didn't want to go since I've had to go so much lately. And this was the only other time I've gotten IV medication.

    And the medicine they are looking at from the ER has been like vicodin 5 mg and like 6 or so of them taken like 4-6 hours intervals for a day. Or even once I think it was tramadol? Or tramacet? I'm not sure. I had to keep going for my bronchitis and pleurisy because it would not go away and my NP at my PCP's office kept telling me it was asthma. So that was like 3-4 trips to the ER before a doctor was finally like, "Okay, look, we need to get a full review of what is going on."

    I think there has been only three ER visits I've had where they have given me anything stronger than my actual PM medicine. It was when I had the pleurisy and bronchitis, when I fell on my stairs in January and badly bruised up ribs that weren't healing, and when I tore the cartilage in my knee and couldn't even walk without a knee brace.

    I can understand if they want me to not see this doctor anymore because I obviously made a mistake, but what is going to upset me the most is if they won't work with my insurance's case management nurse and at the VERY least maybe get me this month's refill until I can get into another doctor and not put a black mark since I didn't fully understand my contract. And I'm sure a lot of people will think badly of me, but I am not a drug addict. I've had a really horrible run of problems lately that has just continued to compile until about the end of April. I haven't even been to the ER except for the 21st since I think sometime in April when I had to go in because of my back problems that I have been seeing him for and his own nurse told me to go to the ER.

    Sorry everyone. I'm really frustrated and scared about this situation and I feel like I'm nothing but a bad person because of the way I got treated today.

     
    Old 06-30-2014, 08:14 PM   #4
    rockfish552
    Newbie
    (female)
     
    rockfish552's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: Texas
    Posts: 1
    rockfish552 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    I hate the way we are treated as drug addicts just because we have problems thst require pain meds. I almost never took prescription pain pills, until my first surgery for severe spine problems. For most of my life, I took prescription pain meds only while hospitalized and given no choice in the matter.

    I have a very high pain tolerance. Though I was given prescriptions, I took no opiates or other prescription pain meds after three separate incidents in which I broke a bone, nor after root canals and other dental work, nor during 10 years of constant, severe knee problems, nor after discharge from the hospital following ACL knee reconstruction -- a major surgery known to be painful, which used two bone grafts cut from my own body -- nor after 4 other less major surgeries.

    Some of these prescriptions -- especially those for knee problems -- were for more than 100 opiate pain pills, plus refills, because my doctors thought I needed them, but I usually didn't even fill the prescriptions.

    But now I'm diagnosed with advanced degenerative disc disease and degenerative joint disease, which causes disc herniations, collapsed discs, bone spurs, dislocated vertebrae, etc. This results in multilevel spinal cord compression and compression of a large number of spinal nerve roots. I've had two major spine surgeries and need more.

    The pain is severe enough to prevent activity of any kind -- even getting out of bed can be impossible, without pain meds. I get pain so severe I can hardly bear it -- the 0 to 10 pain scale doesn't seem to apply. I think some people would not even survive this level of pain. Nerve root pain can make you feel like you're being tortured. In particular, I sometimes feel like I'm being "drawn and quartered" -- as though a huge, horrible force is about to rip me apart from the inside, with my low back being the epicenter of the destruction.

    So I take opiate pain meds now, to assure that I won't be stuck in bed or in a wheelchair, since I get weak and lose functional ability very quickly, if I'm excessively inactive for even a few days. These drugs do not make me pain free, but do allow me some quality of life. I don't take these drugs for kicks and grins and I am NOT a drug addict.

    Last edited by rockfish552; 06-30-2014 at 08:41 PM. Reason: to add something

     
    The following user gives a hug of support to rockfish552:
    gmak (07-01-2014)
    Old 06-30-2014, 08:39 PM   #5
    karlee1010
    Senior Member
    (female)
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: USA
    Posts: 144
    karlee1010 HB Userkarlee1010 HB Userkarlee1010 HB Userkarlee1010 HB Userkarlee1010 HB Userkarlee1010 HB Userkarlee1010 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    It's such a total shame that an innocent mistake can be taken so drastically! It really is. Now if you were someone who's been in PM for 10 years or over,
    that would be different. It still would be petty however. Our Drs. have to lean to the side of the extreme in order to "save themselves", and each situation is so different, they SHOULD take each situation on individually! For yours, if you read your whole story twice, it's pretty obvious you should be given just 1 more chance. Please do let us know exactly what happens ok? Many of us really do care! Marla.

     
    Old 06-30-2014, 09:31 PM   #6
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    I really didn't mean it in the way they are taking it. I wasn't like sat down and specifically gone over the terms of the contract. All I was told was that I wasn't allowed to receive pain medication from any other doctor and to me it means that I am not allowed to see regular physician's and get pain medication from them. And the fact that this same nurse who was so mean and rude to me today is the one who told me back in April when the pain got so bad and I could hear grinding and feel it that I needed to go to the ER because he could only prescribe one narcotic medicine a month per patient.

    This whole thing has me upset since I'm actually trying to fix the issue by losing the extra weight I have and without the pain medicine as a crutch it is going to be very painful to deal with. And I personally don't want injections because I've had painful bad experiences with doctors putting things in my back.

    I also really like this doctor, too. He's like a big ole grandpa to me and I kind of wish they'd just let me sit down with him on my next appointment so that I could explain that I didn't fully understand the details of my contract. But, the way I was treated today? I might just leave anyways because of how those two women treated me.

     
    Old 07-01-2014, 04:54 AM   #7
    tortoisegirl
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Location: Washington
    Posts: 1,204
    tortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB Usertortoisegirl HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    I'd push to be able to get an appointment with the doctor to discuss this, as well as discuss your options for if you are being dismissed. So are you currently out of meds as the nurse dismissed you before you could even see the doctor for your appointment? I'm a little confused as to how it actually happened, and if you were actually told you were dismissed, or just told you broke your contract. Best wishes.
    __________________
    Kate
    constant headache since 2006

     
    Old 07-01-2014, 10:09 AM   #8
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    Tortoise, I haven't been formally dismissed yet. So far I've not even heard anything back from them today after his nurse was so rude to me over the phone and telling me that he was going to dismiss me.

    The case management nurse on my insurance company is really trying to take control of the situation right now, but she's been having a lot of issues getting a hold of my PM doctor via phone. They always have a lot of problems with their phones and just letting them ring instead of picking up. She already told me this morning that is illegal for them to just drop me without making sure I have enough of my medicine he has been prescribing me to get to another doctor. It varies by state laws apparently, but it can be up to a 30 day supply he might need to call in so that I can get to the next doctor or my PCP can figure out what to do from here.

    So, right now, I don't think I need to worry too much about withdrawal because my case management nurse is going to do whatever she can to help me get the medicine I need for the month or so until we can figure out what to do.

    I just wasn't aware that it is illegal for PM doctors to just drop you completely and not take care of you. But, according to her, she said that they are under legal obligation as the doctor taking care of this treatment that he can't knowingly put me through withdrawal.

    Now I guess the biggest concern is still the fact that it could leave a mark on my record.

     
    Old 07-01-2014, 02:13 PM   #9
    backhurtz
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    backhurtz's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Oct 2008
    Location: NY, USA
    Posts: 818
    backhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB Userbackhurtz HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    First of all, I'm sorry that you are in this situation but the case manager is wrong. Doctors are under no obligation to give any patient a 30 day supply of opiates once they are dismissed.
    You broke the contract, and while I know that it isn't what you want to hear, it was your responsibility to read and understand the contract before you signed it. If you didn't understand, it, you should have asked for clarification before signing it. Ignorance of the rules is not a defense, as much as you may not want to hear that.
    Getting opiates from any other doctor but your pm is directly a violation of the rules of the contract...that doesn't mean just your primary , it means your dentist, the ER ( you can be given iv pain medications while under treatment in the ER ) but a going home prescription is different. You should have called the pm's office for permission to fill any script given to you by the ER, and you should have contacted them to let them know you were in the ER. Pain medications for bronichitis aren't medically necessary. Breathing treatments, steroids, antibiotics are, but pain medications are not.
    Depending on the state that you are in, may be the reason that they didn't say anything prior to you about all of the ER visits, because it depends on how often the state's prescription monitoring database is updated .
    I'm sorry that you are in this mess, but I don't want you to think that this case manager is going to be able to get your meds for you, because the doctor is under no obligation to give you anything at this point.
    __________________
    Back surgery x2

     
    The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to backhurtz For This Useful Post:
    ferd144 (07-01-2014),oldnbroken (07-09-2014)
    Old 07-01-2014, 02:22 PM   #10
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    backhurtz,

    I definitely do understand that I made a mistake, so I am not saying I didn't. I don't know if my case management nurse is confused, but she has said that it is illegal for the pain management doctor to release me without at least giving a certain amount of the medications I'm on until I find a new doctor or for the certain state time for those guidelines. She still told me recently that she can't force them to do it, but that it is illegal for them to purposely throw me into withdrawal. I didn't even know that, but she has warned me already that she can't force them to do anything even if it is against the law.

    I don't know if it is just my state or just a whole thing. She's talked to the case doctor for my insurance and he has said the same thing that it's illegal, but they can still refuse.

    At this point, I don't know what's going to happen. Obviously I'm going to get dismissed, but I also haven't heard back from the nurse from the PM office either about what the doctor said. She said she would also get back to me and she didn't.

    I definitely get that I've broken the contract, no matter how unintentional it was, so that I definitely understand. I'm just hoping, and it probably won't happen, that something can get worked out. But at this point I think those chances are slim.

     
    Old 07-01-2014, 03:35 PM   #11
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    Well, I guess I am going to end up being a bad example of a pain management patient. I've now talked to my PM doctors nurse and she has said that the doctor is releasing me. Which I understood that was going to happen. I already asked her if he will be refilling this month's medicine or if he will just be letting that go. She was a little sharp about the fact that he was probably not going to do anything about it, but she'd ask.

    My question is now from here, where do I go? I will go back to see my PCP and see what he wants to do. But, is a pain management doctor even going to bother seeing me anymore? Or will every doctor I go to now look at me and label me as a drug addict or something?

     
    Old 07-01-2014, 04:06 PM   #12
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    I just thought I'd add one more thing because I know someone mentioned that the doctor isn't any longer obligated to provide me medicine or care. And actually he is. I found it in the Mississippi opioid state laws about ending the patient-physician relationship.

    Last edited by Administrator; 07-01-2014 at 06:35 PM.

     
    Old 07-02-2014, 10:22 AM   #13
    momzworkin
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Location: Kansas City, Kansas
    Posts: 845
    momzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB Usermomzworkin HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    I am so sorry you are going through this. I have a 23 year old daughter who I believe would be in the same boat as you are in regards to not reading the contract carefully or asking questions, since you didn't KNOW the right questions to ask! I am glad you have your insurance company advocating for you. Can they give you a list of PM doctors they have in your service that you can call and try to get appointments with? They might even be able to help you get an appointment, but don't count on that.
    Lessons learned, it is now time for you to advocate for yourself and start making calls. Some doctors are just simply HARD LINE because they have been burned so many times by drug seeking patients (which I am not saying you are, dear), and they have the law breathing down their neck about over prescribing, along with your multiple trips to the ER which could be misconstrued as your stumbling and hurting yourself because you are under the influence---it is just a bad package of circumstances.
    I hope you aren't mixing alcohol with any of this. It can really screw you up-and one DUI and you may never get in to a pain management program again.
    Come back and update us if you are able to get some help from another doctor. In the meantime, lots of ice, rest and if you need it try over the counter remedies to help see you through.
    __________________
    07/2006: A/P fusion L4-S1; DX DDD
    09/2009: started PM
    04/2011: Right rotator cuff tear
    09/2011: re-tore shoulder in PT- lost 30% function in shoulder
    06/2013: diagnosed with failure of L2-L3-L4

     
    Old 07-02-2014, 11:20 AM   #14
    LadyRaven06
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    LadyRaven06's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2014
    Location: Gulfport, MS
    Posts: 11
    LadyRaven06 HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    Yeah, this whole thing has turned into a mess because I'm obviously young and entirely inexperienced that I didn't know the warning signs to look out for. And my case management nurse has gone over a lot with me and I've now found out that this doctor can be filed against for negligence because back in March and April my pain suddenly got really bad and I called my PM doctor FIRST and he refused to do anything. My case management nurse from my insurance says that he apparently is liable for negligence in that case because he was obligated to at the very least have me come in and take a look at me before refusing to adjust medicine or whatnot.

    So unfortunately, I'm probably going to go through withdrawal because my PCP won't see me until I have the certified letter in hand that says the PM doctor isn't treating me anymore. And even though he is breaking state laws, I can't really force him to continue treatment this month, and the only thing I can do is report him for negligence and patient abandonment.

    I'm going to try to make it through the weekend so that I can have my certified letter from my PM doctor in hand for my PCP to see, but I'm also not sure if that is going to help either. I've been told to go to the ER because they would be the ones to treat me, but to be honest, that makes me really super uncomfortable.

    And no, momz, I am not mixing alcohol at all with any of this going on. I rarely even touch alcohol, so please don't worry about that! I might be a bit unaware of medical laws and practices with certain doctors, but I know not to mix medicine with alcohol.

     
    The following 2 users give hugs of support to: LadyRaven06
    dustygal (07-03-2014),roadiez (07-02-2014)
    Old 07-02-2014, 12:53 PM   #15
    roadiez
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Jul 2012
    Location: Evansville, In
    Posts: 163
    roadiez HB Userroadiez HB Userroadiez HB Userroadiez HB Userroadiez HB Userroadiez HB User
    Re: Being Dismissed

    I kind of know what you're going through.
    As far as being threatened to be kicked out of my PM clinic

    I was called 2 or 3 times last year by my PM nurse threatening me with kicking me out of the clinic. When in fact what the real problem was between the PM clinic, the pharmacy & the Indiana INSPECT Program.

    The Indiana INSPECT Program is the state run pharmacy prescription monitoring program.

    What was happening with me was after my visit to see the Dr. the PM clinic was calling the pharmacy to give refills for my pain meds. The pharmacy was going ahead & filling them. Even though it was not time for me to receive them yet. So that was then recorded to the In. INSPECT. So long story short the nurses checked the list & found my name having refilled too soon.

    Let me tell you I was getting such an ear full from the nurse I couldn't even begin to tell her that I had no Idea what was going on. Come to find out I figured it out myself. Had the pharmacy print out when I received my Rx in hand & that I did not get the meds early.

    I did get a half-hearted apology from the nurse. But to me the damage was done. I learned that I had to tell the pharmacy to only fill my script only when I called for them & never to fill when called in by a doctor.

    I do hope this helps someone reading this. Especially from folks from Indiana

    I do hope that you, Lady Raven learn from this & not to do it again. As most states are running in conjunction with each other to keep checks on their residents.

    Best of luck & I do hope you find another PM to help you out.
    __________________
    Cervical:ACDF C4-C7 & Posterior Corpectomy C4-T1. Now 2 Broke Screws @ T1 level Posterior. Severe Migraine's, Multiple white spots on brain (Unknown Why).

     
    Closed Thread




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:22 AM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!