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  • Meanagers....Will We Survive????

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    Old 11-03-2004, 07:30 PM   #31
    goody2shuz
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    It's extremely frustrating, Heartland....today I spent almot the entire day on the phone seeking a counselor for my daughter. I spoke with the junior high school counselor at my younger daughter's school.....and she highly recommended some one who is terrific but is out of network ...it's a team where the woman would work with my daughter & the man work with Tom & I. Each initial meeting would cost $200 each and then any subsequent meetings $150/session!!! We'd be up to another mortgage payment I really liked the idea of the separate team meetings....my daughter is very threatened & feels that we are influencing everyone's outlook on the situation. So being that she is open to counseling I want to make sure it starts out in as non-threatening a way that it can.
    The school counselor was nice enough to go through my in network providers with me and we found one that she highly recommends like the other. We have a call into him & have yet to hear anything. Meanwhile, I was able to get one with an in network counselor who is available tomorrow. My daughter wants to meet with her tomorrow with my neighbor bringing her and leave her options open to meeting with the other if he eventually gets back to me. We all, (Tom & I, my neighbor & my daughter) agree that it is most important that she start ASAP....and knowing my daughter who is now on a mission of getting as many people in her corner as possible in order to have it her way & have them say what she wants to hear...we're better off starting out with someone not recommended because chances are that she is going to bolt out of there as soon as they aren't in agreement with her. She just wants someone to hear her out and call Tom & I in to tell us how wrong we are!!! My neighbor has told me that I have one of the most thickheaded strongwilled teenagers she has ever met. And she is absolutely right!!!

    One thing that pisses me off is that my daughter spent most of today in the guidance office at school (as per my neighbor) and she called me to tell me that the guidance counselor wished to speak with me. The counselor went on to tell me with my daughter present how a job is very important to a 16 year old and that it was to her as well when she was that age...blah, blah, blah...and I quickly told her what was going on...that my daughter was working sometimes 25 hours a week and that we felt it was way too much to balance with her studies/social life/family life etc. and that we had no intention of asking her to give it up but that she needed to cut her hours so that she could have less stress and improve on her attitude at home which we felt was due to her having too much on her plate at one time. I asked her not to go on and she did....so my neighbor & I have a call in to her so I can straighten this out & let her know exactly how much she ruined any headway we had accomplished this entire week!!!!

    Anyway....I am glad our daughter is going tomorrow to counseling...we want her home and she wants to come home but after she meets with the counselor. I believe and am hoping that she is reaching out to equip herself with the coping skills and tools she needs in order to work with Tom & I on the homefront. We have let her know that we want her back and love her very much. Our younger daughter has improved and Tom & I decided to be one step ahead & printed out basic guidelines and expectations as parents regarding respect, responsibilities, and rules such as curfews and maximum hours/week to work during the school year.

    Tom & I are doing remarkedly well....it seems as if we're pulling closer together....he showered me with extra hugs today after I shared my exhausting day of seeking out the help we would need to get our daughter back home with us. I'm scared, Heartland, because she's really a good kid who wants to be totally independent like the people she works with who's average age is 25. She wants to socialize with them outside of work and her job has become her life...almost obsessively so, and we don't want her to get to the point of running to them (she already has told Tom & I that they all think we are wrong) but she doesn't yet realize that they are not the ones who love her and want what is best for her in her life. I hope with love and patience we will get her to realize this. It's so difficult...please pray along with us that she trusts this counselor enough to be truthful & honest enough to find out why she is so miserable within herself. We intend to involve ourselves in the counseling when the time is right as well. thanks Heartland and all...Goody is tired and is off to bed

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 11-03-2004 at 07:38 PM.

     
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    Old 11-03-2004, 07:40 PM   #32
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Wowee, Im sorry, I was just venting and stuck you in the crossfire! You are not guilty of habitually insulting anyone, so I should not have assumed you were trying to do that to goody. I was just thinking back to some not-so-helpful posters who got nasty, and that obviously does not include you! Im really sorry! Shame on me! I was in a bad mood today. Tomorrow I will not post until I take my daily prozac (just kidding--Im not on meds, but maybe I need them!).

     
    Old 11-03-2004, 08:51 PM   #33
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by goody2shuz
    she's really a good kid who wants to be totally independent like the people she works with who's average age is 25. She wants to socialize with them outside of work and her job has become her life...almost obsessively so
    Sounds like she is addicted to her coworkers and their lifestyle like some people are addicted to the Internet.

    The most logical argument for working fewer hours is that too many hours interfere with her preparation for her post high school goals. What are her goals after high school? Hopefully she has some but so many kids her age donít. That could become the next major sticking point. Should I pray for goals, too?

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 05:54 AM   #34
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Sounds like she is addicted to her coworkers and their lifestyle like some people are addicted to the Internet.

    The most logical argument for working fewer hours is that too many hours interfere with her preparation for her post high school goals. What are her goals after high school? Hopefully she has some but so many kids her age donít. That could become the next major sticking point. Should I pray for goals, too?
    BINGO!!!! That's what Tom and I, as well as our neighbor are afraid of!!! She has progressively allowed this job to become the most important thing in her life. Even to the point of not switching a day because it interferes with family plans, a good friend's birthday, with excuses like "I can't let my boss down" or "I may get fired" or "My job is everything to me & all you want to do is take away the only good thing in my life!!" She has pitted her boss & coworkers against us saying just the other day when we first spoke after a week...."Even my boss & coworkers say I have it bad here and my boss totally understands & is not firing me because he knows about my living somewhere else and understands that I have to work less hours now until I get back home" When we told her that she would be working less hours when she came home she got to tears (she has cried only two times in her 16 years and this was the third) I believe, as my neighbor does, that she went somewhere with one of her coworkers leaving work early(who we have forbid her to get in the car with because she has a history of a suspended license and no insurance) while staying next door. Tom even rode up to catch her in action and it would have been the perfect opportunity for us to have told her that she no longer would be working...but she emerged from the darkness of the building (we're convinced the girl dropped her off on the road nearby so as not to be caught but didn't see so couldn't accuse her of it) and when Tom asked her where she had come from she said she had started walking (which we had told her not to do) and came back when she heard that Tom was on his way to pick her up from our neighbor.

    What do we do....I'm afraid if we make her quit without good enough reason....she is still honor role material and I can see her throw that all away with both hands and anything that is good in her life. I know we shouldn't be held hostage by her and that eentually the job will have to go but Tom & I feel that we have to have good enough reason to do so. When she comes back we intend to sit down with her & tell her that the fate of her job is totally in her hands...that as long as she is respectful and fulfilling her school and household responsibilities and not breaking our trust she will continue to work. We intend to tell her that if there is need for punishment in the future regarding cursing or going in cars with people that we don't know or are uncomfortable with we will be taking away a day of work and if she gets to 3 days like 3 strikes "she's out"!!

    My neighbor just called & told me that my daughter decided that she wants me to go with her to her first counseling session so as "not to hurt mom's feelings". We both beleive we've either made some headway or that she wants me there so the counselor can tell me how wrong I've been. What do you think? I'm always the type to see good in others so I'm hoping it's the making some headway.

    Yes, Heartland, please pray for some goals. My daughter hasn't set any as of yet and Tom & I just brought up how we want her to have so much more in her future & that with her grades she has the opportunity to do so. We said we don't want her working in a bagel store like some of these 20-25 year olds are at $7/hr and that we don't want any less that her becoming the owner of one bringing in millions and that she really deserves that. Her response is...."I could be happy working in a bagel store...I just would need to find myself a rich husband!!!" You see what we're working with here....a 16 year old that would make a great defense lawyer because she has mastered the ability to make something so wrong seem so right!!!

    God give me strength....cause I am certainly gonna need it..Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 11-04-2004 at 05:55 AM.

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 06:29 AM   #35
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Goody,
    What kind of job does your daughter have?

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 07:06 AM   #36
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Hey, Susie She works in a Bagel Store. Job consists of closing and cleanup....hours are 3-6pm weekdays...boss is usually off premises. Cleanup varies depending on who's working with her (some workers are slower) and also on how much fooling around they do. If they work she can be out before 6pm....she's only paid til 6 but at times gets out as late as 8pm. we intend to put a stop to that as well. For example...my neighbor said that she got out last night at 8pm...when asked why she said that when she arrived at 3 the line was out the door (they don't close business until 4pm) and that she had to also bike up to the grocery store about 1/2 mile up the road to get tampons for the 19 year old that has in the past a suspended license but drives!!! Don't like that she is leaving the premises during working hours

    Weekends....she in the past has worked 12 hour days from 6am-6pm working the counter, slicer for cold cuts which is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 and closing up. Tom & I looked up the legal amount of hours a minor could work and it is 28 hours/wk....she in the past was up around 21/.wk average but at times up to 32 if working both days on the weekend. That was pretty much last year when she didn't have SAT prep and driver's ed going on. We started out this year with only 3 schooldays nd one weekend day because of her added educational fctors of being a junior in high school and driver's ed. Things got really nasty at home & since she has been next door she is only working 2 schooldays and no weekend hours. We'd like to keep it that way until after her SAT and finals.....Goody

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 09:01 AM   #37
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Hi, Goody

    Been there, done that. My personal observations tell me that if kids donít have a ďcareerĒ in mind before their high school years, they very rarely set career goals during high school. I think parents lose the ability to shape a childís future soon after the sixth grade. After that, the seed has been planted and we can do little but watch, pray and be supportive. It could be different if the child isnít strong-willed but most seem strong-willed these days. If a counselor tells you otherwise; please tell all of us.

    Itís good to hear that your daughter is willing to have you go with her to the first counseling session. I suspect that means she is now confident that the counselor will side with her; her coworkers probably convinced her of that. It will probably be best to bite your tongue as much as possible during the session no matter how painful it gets. If you try to influence the counselor, she will sense a conspiracy and shut you both off. Your only agenda should be that you want your daughter to have a happy life as an adult. That perspective still allows you to express all of your concerns about your daughterís behavior. Take a box of tissues and a carton of antacids with you.

    About working in a bagel shop and finding a rich husband, mention that you have never seen any women who looked rich working in a bagel shop (unless itís the owner). If any were rich, their rich husband wasnít treating their wife very well. Of course that wonít impress her but use it as a way to segue into asking how she sees her life going after high school.

    You are at the point where you start to remember that children are a gift from God and they are His problem, too. God has done this for thousands of years; youíd think He would have got it right by now. Youíre new at this so God must sympathize with you.

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 09:24 AM   #38
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Thanks again, Heartland. I get the feeling since you've been there done that that you have much more insight into outr sitation than you are letting on in fear that it may upset me. If I can be bold enough to ask....what happened after the counseling??? And what was the turnout in your situation????

    Althogh my daughter does not have career choices set as of yet...I do have hope because I didn't show interest in a nursing profession until the end of my junior year. I was a slow bloomer, naive, and a people person but in a gentle and shy way. My daughter although strong willed and fixed on being out on her own, driving a car, getting her own place, being all grown up...I see as being a great success if she'd just look past the wordly things which Tom & I have always made a point of living.

    Yes...I am glad as you are that my daughter has decided to involve me in her first counseling session. I know that she will go in alone and then the counselor will end with me if my daughter sees it acceptable. And don't think for a minute that I don't know her primary objective is to get the counselor to side with her. I know already that if I am invited in then the counselor has sided somewhat with my daughter in order gain her trust or that my daughter will leave & report to me on the way home that she doesn't want to go back and only sees it as a waste of time (the counselor has someway indicated that she will not side with her)

    I know we're in for the longrun & I made a promise to God each time I gave birth......to do my best with this precious gift He has blessed me with....to guide them in His way and even if it meant not being their best friend at any given time in order for them to one day be around to become my friend. I didn't have any idea of the world in which they would be living would be a constant enemy of mine that constantly would try to snatch them away. Anyway...my mom gave Tom and I a pep talk about what great parents we are and to continue to hankg tough and united and that one day our efforts would come back to us in such a positive way. Hard to really believe that now...but we're certainly trying....Goody

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 10:02 AM   #39
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Goody-
    I really hope things work out well. I can only relate by telling you how I was, which I did. I don't have children so I'm not a parent yet, but you are such a caring person and your daughters are blessed to have a mother like you. If they don't see it now they will see is soon.

    Last edited by elatedgiraffe; 11-04-2004 at 10:02 AM.

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 10:30 AM   #40
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Elated-

    Thanks for the vote of confidence. I know I'm a great mom...I just can't believe I'm going through such a volatile state with her. I must say that things are so much nicer here at home in the sense that her attitude, anger, nastiness and all have not been a part of our daily routine. My 13 year old who ran away that same night....even though she's grounded pretty much from almost everything (use of phone, TV, Computer) has a positive attitude and is a pleasure to be with. It seems when my older daughter is around my younger one jumps on board and everything is chaos. So....having my older daughter outside the home, although a drastic measure, has turned out to be a good thing in terms of regaining in my younger daughter the foundation of trust & working with her one on one. She had a difficult first year in junior high....grades slipped and she was sad starting her period and going thorugh so many changes at once and now this year has a wonderfl attitude and her grades are honor roll and I didn't want my older daughter messing her up and pulling her down with her. That was why Tom & I suggested to my older daughter that she go next door to work through her issues.

    Thanks for sharing with me about the other side....like you, STacy and Wowwwweee suggest...my older daughter needs alot of love, and we intend on giving it to her once she is back home and has made the effort to want to make things better. Counseling is a step in the right direction and a big step...but is it genuine on her part??? She has stopped talking to my neighbor's daughter once she was told by her that she should think about losing the job and go get counselling. She's going for the counselling and I'm hoping it's to seek out the coping skills she so desperately needs and not to gain the support of the counselor to side with her in order to come back & get things to be the way she would like...which is to hang out with college age kids and work as many hours at her job as she'd like because it's become her life....Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 11-04-2004 at 10:32 AM.

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 11:46 AM   #41
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by goody2shuz
    I get the feeling since you've been there done that that you have much more insight into outr sitation than you are letting on in fear that it may upset me. If I can be bold enough to ask....what happened after the counseling??? And what was the turnout in your situation????
    Look who is intuitive now!

    The counselor told me after two sessions that we were doing the right things as parents. Great! We had no reason to feel guilty about the problems; that made us sleep so much better. We used light but supportive reins on her throughout high school so we wouldnít lose her altogether. It was bumpy but nothing horrible happened (that we know about ). She was pressured into going to a community college but lasted only a semester. Now, she seems satisfied with her job but we know she is capable of doing so much better. The main thing is she seems happy and gets along great with us now. She calls her mom daily and visits us at least once per week. cíest la vie

    Looking back, I think we did the best we could once she became a teenager. If I could change anything, I would have tried to interest her in selecting possible careers while in sixth grade. I think if they arenít thinking about careers then, they wonít until it is too late.

    Goody, you said that you didnít decide on nursing until you were a high school junior. Did you realize when you entered high school that you wanted a career that most likely would require a college education? I think that attitude is more important than knowing which career that might be. -Heartland

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 01:22 PM   #42
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Look who is intuitive now!

    The counselor told me after two sessions that we were doing the right things as parents. Great! We had no reason to feel guilty about the problems; that made us sleep so much better. We used light but supportive reins on her throughout high school so we wouldnít lose her altogether. It was bumpy but nothing horrible happened (that we know about ). She was pressured into going to a community college but lasted only a semester. Now, she seems satisfied with her job but we know she is capable of doing so much better. The main thing is she seems happy and gets along great with us now. She calls her mom daily and visits us at least once per week. cíest la vie

    Looking back, I think we did the best we could once she became a teenager. If I could change anything, I would have tried to interest her in selecting possible careers while in sixth grade. I think if they arenít thinking about careers then, they wonít until it is too late.

    Goody, you said that you didnít decide on nursing until you were a high school junior. Did you realize when you entered high school that you wanted a career that most likely would require a college education? I think that attitude is more important than knowing which career that might be. -Heartland
    I don't recall taking anything too seriously...I always dreamed of doing something with children...mostly of becoming a mother. Looking back on it my biographies were always on the angels of mercy like Florence Nightengale & Sarah Barton. But as a kid I was petrified of needles and doctors. Figure that Anyway, in my junior year I met my best friend and we both went off to a 4 year college....I think we motivated each other. I specialized in Pediatrics...developed some disc problems in my late 20's and had my kids and put the career pretty much behind me. I found after having my own kids it pretty difficult to see the chronically ill kids I was working wiht...mosly AIDS and cancers.

    A BIG UPDATE: TOM & I JUST LEARNED FROM OUR YOUNGER DAUGHTER THAT OUR OLDER DAUGHTER HAS BEEN SUPPLIED AND BEEN TAKING PILLS THAT SHE GOT FROM SOMEONE AT WORK!!!!! MONTHS AGO MY OLDER DAUGHTER CAME TO ME & OPENLY TOLD ME THAT SHE FELT BAD AND HAD TAKEN A STACKER PILL GIVEN TO HER BY A GIRL AT WORK...THE SAME ONE WITH THE SUSPENDED LICENSE, IN ORDER TO HAVE MORE ENERGY. SHE TOLD ME THAT SHE GOT SCARED AFTER READING INFO ON THE INTERNET OF HOW THEY CAN REALLY HURT YOU. AT THE TIME I TOLD HER HOW PROUD I WAS THAT SHE CAME TO ME AND WENT ON TO TELL HER AS A NURSE HOW CAFFEINE/DIET PILLS ALONE OR IN COMBINATION WITH OTHER MEDICATIONS COULD KILL YOU. NOW I AM NOT SURE WHAT SHE TOOK....I PULLED UP STACKERS ON THE INTERNET TO HAVE MY YOUNGER DAUGHTER IDNTIFY THE PILLS SHE DISCOVERED & WAS PAID $30 TO KEEP QUIET ABOUT BY MY OLDER DAUGHTER. MY YOUNGER DAUGHTE SAYS THEY WERE CAPSULES THAT SMELLED BAD WITH WHITE ON ONE SIDE AND ANOTHR COLORFUL COLOR ON THE OTHER. I HAVE A CALL INTO THE COUNSELOR TO TELL HER ABOUT THIS AND ASK HER ADVICE ON HOW WE SHOULD HANDLE THE INFORMATION. TOM WENT UP TO THE BAGEL STORE & ASKED THE WORKERS AND BOSS SHAT IT MAY BE & ALSO INFORMED THEM THAT KAITLIN WOULD NO LONGER BE WORKING THERE!!! MISTAKE?????

    I'M IN SHOCK & DISBELIEF....NEVER DID I THINK....BUT IT ALL MAKES SENSE. SHE'S BEEN IRRITABLE, ANGRY, STATING SHE'S NOT HUNGRY ALL OF WHICH ARE SIDE EFFECTS OF CAFFEINE BUT COULD BE SOMETHING MORE. MY YOUNGER DAUGHTER ALSO INFORMED US SHE CAME ACROSS A LETTER WRITTEN BY HER SISTER SAYING THAT THE WORKER THAT SUPPLIED HER WITH THESE PILLS WHEN ASKED HOW SHE COULD REPAY HIM ASKED FOR SEXUAL FAVORS WHICH SHE REFUSED TELLING HIM HOW SHE HAD A BF AND HE HAD A GF AND THAT IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT. HE WENT ON TO TOUCH HER IN UNCOMFORTABLE WAYS AND SHE WENT TO HER MANAGER (FEMALE DAUGHTER OF BOSS IN HER 20'S) WHO ACCORDING TO THE LETTER HAS BEEN HELPING MY DAUGHTER THROUGH THIS.

    HELP....THE COUNSELOR JUST CALLED AND WANTS TO MEET BEFORE WE CONFRONT OUR DAUGHTER & SUGGESTS WE CONFRONT HER AT HOME AFTER HER FIRST SESSION. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK....GOODY

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 01:37 PM   #43
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Wow!! Goody I know that you must be shocked, but at the same time this explains so much of your daughter's behavior. I suggest you follow the counselor's advice. Now that you have a professional involved you have to put some trust into the counselor for whats best. This all explains so much. Now was she doing this for a high? or is she worried about gaining weight?

    Now about going up to her work, I probably would have handled it differently, but then again I'm not a mother. I know the news is shocking but it has got to feel good to be able to have an explaination for her mood swings and all. I think at this point you should check her room for anything else.

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 02:30 PM   #44
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elatedgiraffe
    Wow!! Goody I know that you must be shocked, but at the same time this explains so much of your daughter's behavior. I suggest you follow the counselor's advice. Now that you have a professional involved you have to put some trust into the counselor for whats best. This all explains so much. Now was she doing this for a high? or is she worried about gaining weight?

    Now about going up to her work, I probably would have handled it differently, but then again I'm not a mother. I know the news is shocking but it has got to feel good to be able to have an explaination for her mood swings and all. I think at this point you should check her room for anything else.
    I'm about to do that right now. I just collected all her stuff from next door...she's at driver's ed and Tom will be picking her up...we'll have 20 minutes for dinner andthen off to the counselor. My neighbor & I already searched her backpack and her house where my daughter was staying. I doubt if we'll find anything here because my younger daughter said the letter and pills are gone. But when she gets home we will check her purse and small backpack she has on her all the time.

    As for work....I believe we did the right thing. She broke our trust and paid her sister off to keep things from us. I always told her that if she's honest about something she's done she wouldn't be punished but if we ever found out no matter how much time had passed....there would be severe consequences!!! I had been praying for something that would warrant me getting her away from the older crowd at her job....and I believe today my prayers were finally answered. It's not going to be a pretty picture....but it should work out. I am now able to help her out....I know what the problem is finally....no job ,no cell phone ,and no computer until further notice is our strategy now.....Goody

     
    Old 11-04-2004, 02:57 PM   #45
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    Re: Meanagers....Will We Survive????

    Tom and you are handling this crisis very well. At times like this, you have to trust your God-given instincts. You are His agent now.

     
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