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goody2shuz 11-29-2004 08:44 AM

Teens Drinking
Hi everyone...I'm hoping that there are other parents of teens out there who can help me out a little.

I've posted before about some difficulties I am having with my 16 year old daughter. Generally she's a great kid although lately she hs been testing her boundaries to the point of my losing almost all trust in her. I am very worried about her & hope someone could offer me advice on how to deal with what we are going through.

Recently we discovered that she was taking Staker 2's given to her at her job by an older coworker. They were the one's containing ephedra which are suppose to be no longer available on shelves in the dietary stores. She said she was taking them for extra energy when she needed it to perform at work. The job was a problem from the getgo with her wanting to hang out with college age coworkers etc. and attitude changes at home. Since we found out about the Stackers she is no longer working. She has promised to stay away form them. At the time we discovered that, she also admitted to trying weed at a party she attended but says that she would never do it again beause it scared her. We speak openly about drugs and alcohol at home and have since our kids were little because 2 of their uncles have been in & out of rehab tons of times for addiction problems and legal issues.

Saturday my daughter asked if she could have 5 of her friends over...close friends she has had since elementary school and who we always have seen as a good influence. She is an honor student as are these friends. We happen to be close friends with 3 of their parents. Well they came over & hung out in our playroom upstairs playing ping pong,air hockey, and the such. Doors wee slamming and things got a little loud and my husband & I took turns checking on things. When I went up I saw my daughter & two of her friends coming out of her closet. They left the room & when I looked in there were two shot glasses one of which was full and a bottle of vodka (absolute) 2/3's empty that we had received as a gift one week prior and hadn't touched.

I called my husband & we called each of the parents to come by & pick up their kid telling them briefly that a bottle of vodka had been taken & shared amongst them. We apologized to each parent as they picked up their child. I really feel we handled things diplomatically....the only time we said anything was when one of my daughter's friends shouted, "I really don't think this was such a big deal...we were drinking in a safe place and there's alot more heavy drinking going on out there" blah, blah, husband responded by telling her that she had no right to talk & that he knew that this was not the first incident for her (she had landed herself in the hospital after drinking while at volleyball camp) and that what they did was illegal and not acceptable in our home. Another friend went on to say how the liquor was within eyesight just inviting something like this to happen. We did have a turkey fry with all our friends and their families (in which he his family attended) the week prior to this and just returned from a vacation and hadn't put everything away. And we responded that we are not heavy drinkers & did have a social in which his family was invited and adults of drinking age were indeed drinking but that still did not warrant my daughter or her friends to steal alcohol whether it was right before their eyes or locked away.... that it was still wrong and we were not interested in excuses. I went on to say that I have perscription drugs laying around and trust that they will not be abused when someone is visiting my household. I also explained that I was most disapointed in my daughter that she would allow this to take place & supply the means of doing so in our home. daughter is grounded from everything for a month for what she has done....we had a long talk and reminded her of how she is predisposed to alcohol and durg abuse having a paternal grandfather who's a recovering alcoholic, a great grandmother who was an alcoholic as well as the two uncles that have ongoing drug/alcohol problems. She became scared when she heard about her grandfather having been an alcoholic...we did share this with her when she was young but she claims she didn't recall but went upstairs & gave us an empty rum bottle and told us of another stash and admitted to us that this wasn't her first time using alcohol.

Now I know teenage drinking is out there and am not naive enough to expect my kids never to experiment...but I was quite upset & disappointed that my daughter would take our liquor & have a party with her friends in her room while we're right there. It upsets me that she has taken Stackers, tried weed, and drank on numerous occasions and expects us to trust her. She has told us we're too strict...we let her go to houses of people we know and a general rule is that a parent must be home and each time we give her trust she breaks it. What are we to do???? I am sooo worried about her & the decisions she is making??? I believe we are good parents but I am embaressed now that other parents see what we are going through. Should I be??.....Goody

Kiera1595 11-30-2004 05:09 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hi Goody!!

It's me again, your daughter from the past! As you know I don't have a teen, but reading your post again was like reading about my teen years.

You have one really good thing on your side...your daughter is very smart. (even though she is acting kinda dumb :) ) This is really going to help her. Yes, she is pushing her limits and the rules...but she is smart and this will hopefully help her not to go too far into very dangerous behavior. Now some will probably disagree and yes, even smart kids can go down the wrong path...but I think she's just looking for some fun, exploring the adult world and hopefully she is smart enough to know her own limits.

I think that you did everything right! Telling the parents, grounding your daughter, having the talks that you did. At this point I really think that it is all that you can do. I wish I could say that kids won't drink or smoke pot, or experiment with pills...but as you know, they do!

Don't be embarassed by what happened...many many parents would be happy to only be dealing with a problem like this. And even more are dealing with this exact situation.

Don't feel bad about your drinking at a social you know, you are an adult, you can drink!! Plus you don't sound like the lampshade on the head type of party lady. I'm sure you probably set a responsible example when it comes to your drinking.

I might suggest that you have your daughter take a closer look at her friend who made the comment about drinking in a safe place and had a prior bad experience...she is obviously into the party scene. The bad part is that your daughter may think that she's pretty cool because she's breaking the rules...but you never know.

A month is a good time for her to do some thinking. I'm impressed that she gave you the empty bottle! Again, a good sign mom! A month of grounding will really help her stay away from drinking, drugs, peers behaving badly. And the next time she gets's another month! It sucks having a moody teenager who is stuck in your house, but it will keep her safe and (hopefully) help teach her a lesson. But I will also warn...and I'm sure you may have thought of may also lead to her being even sneakier once she's ungrounded. She will know that you're not playing around and she's going to try even harder not to get caught again (if she decides to do it again) Stick to your guns.

And my final suggestion (which you may have already done) Yes, let her know that if you catch her drinking again she is busted again big time. But the big thing is keeping her safe. Please let her know that if she is at a party and she is drunk or high or her ride is drunk that she can call you for a questions asked/no lectures that night (the next day is whole other story :) ) You don't want a hurt or dead daughter becasue she was afraid of not getting home or getting busted. You guys have a good relationship. My mom (and her best friend) made that deal with me and guess what, I used it!! I was dumb enough to go out and party when I knew I would get grounded, but I was smart enough not to put myself in a car!

Hang in there Goody! You are a smart mom and a good mom! I hope when my kids get older I can handle myself as well as you do. If the saying is true that what you do comes back three fold when you have kids I am in HUGE trouble! Take care!

goody2shuz 11-30-2004 07:49 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Good Morning, Kiera :wave: How did I have a feeling that I would be offered such wonderful advice by you in regard to my most recent episode in ....the meanager years???? I have great hopes that my daughter will possess the same kindness & gentleness that you display as an possess an infinite amount of wisdom and really know how to make a mother feel like a success when during times like these we are wondering if we are failing at what we wish mostly to be successful at in our lives.

Thanks for uplifting me when I feel I need it the most. I must ask you something as the daughter of my future. How is your relationship with your mom right now??? And when you finally were out on your own....did you make smart decisions or continue to make it your mission to rebel against everything your mom had ever taught you???? Did you go off to college & make a career for yourself???? What do I have to look forward to in my daughter's future???? I ask because you sound like such a wonderful young woman who I only hope my daughter will become.

And another BIG question which I often worry you ever have regrets in looking back on how you treated your parents...I mean regrets that interfere with your life in terms of guilt you can't get over. That's what I worry about the most....everyday as a mom I ask God not to take me until I am on good terms with my daughter so that she won't have any regrets on how our relationship was and how she could have done things better. Isn't that ironic....despite the hurt & pain inflicted upon us, we mothers still want what's best for our kids :D :D

Kiera....thanks a million for taking hold of my hand and uiding me through these rough times that I refer to as....the meanager years....Goody :wave:

Kiera1595 11-30-2004 08:55 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Oh are so sweet. My relationship with my mom is pretty darn good. We do have a few issues, but they relate more to my son than the two of us. But we are very open. She taught me as a teen that I could tell her anything (and boy did I throw some whoppers at her) And I still can. But don't get me wrong, I haven't told her everything...just to keep her sane!

I wish I could say that I got grounded a few times and that did the trick...but I am a rebel at heart. However, being grounded sooo much (which was in total probably 2 of my 4 years of highschool) did keep me out of a lot more trouble than I could have been in. It was nothing against my mother, her values and what she was all about what I wanted!! I wanted to try it all and I wanted to try it now!!! I graduated from high school and I went off to a good college...far far away from home. I did graduate from college with honors and I do have a pretty good career (in radio...'cause I'm that rebel :) ) But I did go crazy for the 1st few years that I was out of the house. Doesn't mean that your daughter will do the same. But what kept me in check (I believe) was the fact that I'm a smart person (even though I can't spell :) ). I knew not to spin out of control. I knew it was a phase and I knew there had to be a balance. I knew I had to take care of responsibility 1st and then have fun second! And that's still how I live my life, minus the keggers and numerous antics. And I think that my experiences have taught me a ton! And no, my regrets do not interfere with my life. Yes, I feel bad about hurting my parents. Mostly for some of the horrible things I said when I didn't get my way. More so now that I have a child and another on the way. I imagine them saying to me what I said to mine and it kills me...but I also know that it's part of growing up. We all know that having teens is a challange, why else would there be so many jokes about it? 97.6% of parents are going to have their teens do things that are hurtful. The thing that you need to remember is that when you are a typical teen, the world revolves around you and you alone. They aren't even thinking about you when they do this stuff, except that you will punish them if you find out. She doesn't mean to hurt you on purpose...that is a side effect of doing what she wants to do!

Just keep reminding her that you love her. I bet she usually says it back (even though some times it may be with a roll of the eyes :rolleyes: ) You have until she's 18 to help her learn her lessons and then she has to take what she has learned and govern herself. That's all you can a guide.

Take good care of yourself. Maybe treat yourself to something today for being such a good parent! Talk to you soon!

heartlandguy 11-30-2004 10:32 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hi, Goody… I hope you don’t mind me butting in over here. Since you weren’t on the other boards earlier, I figured something was up. I must have cursed you. My Oct. 1 post to you warned, “It’s all about surviving the child rearing years.” Sorry…

You two are great parents. You are doing all the right things. It was a good sign when you daughter became scared when she relearned about her grandfather’s problem. If you have more stories like that, sprinkling them out during her next few years might be helpful. When your daughter revealed previous episodes with alcohol, it showed that your relationship has improved considerably since her bagel shop days. She is still listening to you so you are still a factor in shaping her future. Many parents don’t have that blessing.

We had similar incidents with our kids so I know what you are going through now. It was sooo hard to release control of a teenager knowing that a dangerous world awaits them. It is amazing that parents don’t lose their sanity during this period. Two thoughts helped me. First, we did our best as parents during their childhood so they were as well prepared for life as we could make them. Second, instead of feeling like we were losing control of them, I continually reminded myself that we were transitioning control from us to God. They are children of God and He is responsible for them, too. :) Did I feel like we were ideal parents? No. Did I think we did the best we could? Yes.

Goody, it’s all about surviving the child rearing years. That applies to you two and the girls. I know you’re doing the best you can and you should be proud of that. The rest is up to your daughters, the “village” that is raising them and God. :angel:

susieq0726 11-30-2004 10:54 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hi Goody! :wave:

I don't have much to offer as I have dogs instead of kids, :D but I wanted to share a story about a friend of mine when I was in high school.
She was a rowdy, out of control girl, that got good grades, but was always getting into some kind of trouble. Her parent's were VERY strict. She got caught smoking cigarettes and drinking Vodka in her car that was parked in the drive way of the family home. Her mother found her and basically had all she could take.
She took my friend in the house, cigarettes, Vodka and all and made her drink and smoke in front of her mother until she became physically ill. She threw up for hours and was hung over for about two days!
She never drank or smoked again - At least not during her remaining two years of high school. I lost contact with her over the years, but often wondered if she ever drank Vodka again! ;)
This (I think) was extreme, but her parent's (I guess) were at their wits end and didn't know what else to do with her. It worked though.
Just thought I would share it with you - Good luck with your daughter. I know it's tough. :wave:

goody2shuz 11-30-2004 12:34 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
Kiera...thanks again for your reassurance. I did get out for a while and treated myself to a pedicure...makes me think of how I should've done so before today ;)

Susie & Heartland....thanks for popping in over here, I posted here because it most likely belongs here and I know that you guys are always around just when Dorothy may need you :D :D

Heartland....I don't feel as if you cursed me, my daughter is just testing her boundaries. It just concerns me that she is becoming a follower rather than a leader...experimenting in a world full of scary things. We spoke after the incident...and Tom & I were pleased & surprised at how calm we were. Since then the other parents have commended us on how we handled the situation when I was fearing the worst of being labeled as a bad parent with an troubled teen. My daughter even came home & informed us that one of her friends was cool with how we handled it. Most of them went unpunished...but we are firm on the punishment we set on our daughter...she did mentioned that her friend never gets punished even when she has ended up in the hospital and we have told her that perhaps if her parents did something about it she wouldn't go back to drinking. She went on to tell us that she was glad we found out when we did because she was having a hard time keeping the one friend who has been hospitalized from drinking too much and was afraid she'd end up back in the hospital. I told my daughter that this shows that she has a good head on her shoulder but is doing stupid things and that I am concerned about her putting herself & her friends in danger. I know from our talks that she is experimenting and formulating her opinions of things and hopefully balancing it all with what we have taught her. I'm starting to let go & have told my daughter that I am giving her more trust but that she is breaking trust with her actions lately. We haveto,d her that each time she does something stupid that she will go down a notch on our ladder of trust & eventually find herself being treated like a 2 year old instead of a young adult. You're right, Heartland, we need to trust in God at this point..Tom & I have done our very best and it's like a poem I once read written by Og Mandino..."Raising children is like being the archer...he takes his bow, and with a strong & steady hand takes aim setting it free. He does this with skill and determination yet as the bow takes course despite the archers efforts the path to the target is not in his power. And so he waits and prays that the winds and forces along the way don't throw his beloved arrow off course until it reaches it's final destination." Yes...that is how it is for us....and I do pray that all we have taught our daughters will come into play and that I can trust that we have served them well.

Susie....your friend's parents method I will put in my back pocket for now. The soap in the mouth thing backfired for us with the foulmouthing & I believe in getting the point across in a serious and realistic way. My next stategy is to not sign off on her driving permit allowing her the privelege to drive before she convinces me that she is ready to get behind the wheel of a car on her own. Drinking & driving don't mix....and we have come too far with her to ever risk allowing her to do so without knowing in our hearts that she is ready. She knows that another incident will give us reason to doubt her ability to be a responsible driver.

Thanks all for your wonderful so it's another chapter of the meanager years in Goody's book of life. Thanks for sharing with me....Goody :wave:

susieq0726 12-01-2004 06:13 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hi Goody,

Yeah - I think my friend's mother was a little extreme, but she was actually scared of her own parent's ( I was too,,,,they were VERY strict!) They always put the fear of God in her.

Remember that your daughter is a teenager and they sometimes do stupid things. I remember when I was 16 my parent's left me home over night alone on New Year's Eve. My friend who was a neighbor had his older brother buy a big bottle of red wine. I had planned on drinking it, but had a really bad cold and ended up taking some cold medicine and going to bed early that night. I had opened the bottle and drank about two sips from it. I stuck the bottle in our downstairs bathroom cabinet and completely forgot about it.
Needless to say, when my mother was cleaning, she found the bottle! Boy was I in trouble, and I didn't even drink it or have any fun that night because I didn't feel well. But how dumb was I to leave it in the bathroom!
I guess my point is, that we all have done dumb things when we're teenagers and all we can hope for is that your daughter learns right from wrong and grows up responsibly. It's especially hard these days - harder than when we were kids.
Set the boundaries and punish when needed.

goody2shuz 12-01-2004 07:24 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hey, Susie :wave: As the days go on it doesn't seem as bad...I'm just wiped out with all the experimentation going on. Granted I expected alcohol to be something at this age for my daughter...I expected wine coolers and beer not vodka :eek: :eek: And right in our own home taken from our cabinet while we were a room away :rolleyes: That's what scared me...we're there and this goes scares me to think what goes on when we're not around. And the funny thing is that Tom & I are not big on drinking...we have get togethers andmost of our liquor has been accummulated as gifts from others who come to our home. My daughter laughed with me saying that it was so easy to take a bottle because we have so much that it won't be missed (we do have alot accummulated because we don't drink it) When I told her I guess we need to lock it up...she says, "Mom, don't do know if kids these days wanna drink they'll find a way even if they have somebody else buy it for them" I wish she weren't so damn smart...because she's absolutely right :rolleyes:

Poor you....thank goodness you didn't mix the cold medicine with alot of wine...that would've been of concern. :D :D My mom was like your friend's mom...she put the fear of God in me too. And my brothers as well. I have to say for me that was what kepr me in line....and yet I promised not to be that way with my kids. My daughter considers us strict as compared to her friends parents...and by today's standards perhaps we are. Her friends basically got a lecture for the drinking this weekend that occurred in our house and nothing else despite some even having been caught before. My daughter is grounded for a month....and I have told her that it will be the same each time I find out she's been drinking. I told her it would be wise to stay away from alcohol for her own sake as well as her friend's one of which apparently has a drinking problem already. I even told her that I realize that drinking is going to happen and it's hard to be a stick in the mud & if she has to hold a drink in her hand to fit in so be it but it is something that can harm her or others and I will not put a seal of approval on it. She has been talking about working again & Tom & I are discussing it as something we may entertain...there's a Coldstone Creamery (a fancy ice cream place) opening up which she wants to look into & perhaps it'll be good in the sense that it will keep her busy & out of trouble having her work on weekends rather than being bored and getting into trouble....what do you guys think? I know we recently told her no work because it really affected her attitude and caused disrespect at home (which by the way has been 100% better). I feel that her previous job was bad in the sense that she was left unattended with college age workers and no manager on the premises while she closed up, the workers were college age with problems such as not going to school and providing stackers with ephedra to others, and driving with suspended licenses (not the best in terms of role models)....etc. This job, however, has kids her age & from her school working there and I hate to give in on our decision that working and school is too much to balance....but she may benefit if working less hours than previously which we will set for her which may keep her out of trouble. My friend told me that when she asked her daughter why she thought they were using alcohol she stated that they were starting to get bored and it was something different to do. (This girl of all my daughter's friends is the one that has a good head on her shoulder & that I am pretty certain didn't participate in the drinking) So...I'm beginning to think that allowing my daughter to go back to a job may be a good thing if the amount of hours were limited unlike they had been before. I'd be interested in what you all think...the previous job was a nightmare in terms of it's affect on my daughter's behavior at home...and since she has stopped working she is doing wonderfully (except for some bad decision making) And I am afraid to go back to the volitale life we had when she was working. I would be interested in hearing anyones advice at this point.....Goody

susieq0726 12-01-2004 09:23 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hi Again goody,

I think the vodka was the closest and easiest thing to get their hands on. It could have been anything - beer, wine coolers, whatever. The vodka was only one bottle and could have been thrown away easier than trying to get mulitiple bottles (beer) and trying to throw them away without you noticing. (Geezzz listen to me,,,,,I sound like a 16 yr old planning a drinking party! ;) )

The job. Well my parent's were not strict and my mother always wanted my brother and I to be independent and think for ourselves. We were (for the most part) good kids and never got into any really bad trouble. (Just my wine incident,,,) But never got in trouble in school or with the police.
My parent's bought me a car for my 16th birthday, but there were rules: I had to keep my grades up, I had a part time job (I started working when I was 15) at an answering service (now I am aging myself - this was back in the day where there were no home answering machines,,,) I had to be in at 9:30 on week nights and midnight on weekends, had to pay for my own car insurance and gas, and had to pay half of the maintinence of the car. And if I go into trouble, my parent's had the right to ground me from it and take away the keys.
I wanted to work and so did my mother. She felt it was the responsible thing to do and it gave me a sense of earning my own money and learning how to manage it. I had the same job for three years until I graduated from high school.
So I think the job thing is OK as long as you have an idea of what kind of place it is. The answering service I worked at was an office type environment where a bunch of women in there 40's and 50's worked during the day, and us younger girls worked in the late afternoon until the place closed at 9:00. It was also open on the weekends.
You will just have to sit down with your daughter and lay the ground rules out and what is and isn't expected of her, and what is acceptable and what is not. Make the rules, write them down and after all parties agree, each of you sign the document. That way, if she screws up, you can show her that she signed and agreed to the stipulations, and you have the right to punish her. That's what my parent's did with me and it worked like a charm.
My mother realized I needed to have some freedom, but with that freedom came responsibility. Each time I proved to her that I was becoming more and more capable, she would allow more freedom. I think she raised two pretty good kids if I say so myself! :D Both my brother and I turned out to be good, law abiding, tax paying citizens!
It's tough raising kids - I know this even if I don't have any myself. Daughters are especially hard. I know you and Tom can get through this because your good, loving parent's. Just hang in there! :bouncing:

heartlandguy 12-01-2004 02:04 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hey, Goody :wave:

The biggest problem with doing anything personally important is that emotion gets in the way of clear thinking. This certainly applies to parenting. In four years, our oldest grandchild will become a teenager and these issues will become emotional for us once again. Your thread is helping me rethink these oh so common issues that were unclear to us the first time around. I’ll be better prepared for our granddaughters. ;)

Two of the biggest problems for parents of teenagers is teaching responsibility and providing constructive discipline. To effectively resolve these problems, the teenager and parent must work together. Although this seems obvious, it is difficult to do in practice because emotions get involved. For instance, ineffective discipline is frequently doled out in the heat of the moment after discovering an offense. That is what our parents did to us and we will repeat their mistakes unless we think creatively.

Your daughter’s friend said drinking was a response to boredom. Destructive boredom occurs when one doesn’t take responsibility for finding constructive activities. Teens must take responsibility for entertaining themselves in a positive manner. Instead, they commonly cop out with “there is nothing to do” and then find something negative to do. Goody, you are a great role model for your daughter and you need to let her in on your secret for finding happiness, building self-esteem and avoiding boredom. Your secret is knowing that we help ourselves when we help others… by leaving them happier than when you found them. You do it frequently on these boards and I’m sure it’s the same in your community. Teens need to learn that secret as soon as possible. Nothing to do? There is always someone needing help; maybe she knows someone near her age that needs her encouragement or reassurance. Teens, like adults, need to take responsibility for seeking happiness via constructive activities. While your daughter is grounded, you have an opportunity to discuss this and other aspects of responsibility.

Concerning constructive discipline, grounding is a great way to make a teen’s home seem like a prison to them. No wonder they want to break out. I wish I was smart enough to realize that in time for our oldest child rather than our youngest. We finally discovered that the teen should be involved in selecting a constructive punishment because the involvement made them better understand why they are being punished. The first step in involving a teen is to create a vision (sound familiar?:)). The vision should be that in 20+ years, they are very likely to be in your 2shuz (I’ve wanted to say that for a long time;)) as a parent. Ask them how they would handle a child that did what they did. This provides a great opportunity to discuss the gravity of the situation. I think a mix of grounding for 7-14 days and a constructive activity is a constructive discipline. You mentioned Og Mandino so it is likely that your house has a set of self-improvement books. A good punishment might be grounding her until she reads a self-improvement book that you have read and gives you an acceptable oral book report. A side benefit is that self-improvement books improve one’s outlook and self esteem; what teenager doesn’t need that? To negotiate a punishment like that, give her the choice of a one-month grounding or the shorter book report grounding. My guess is she would opt for the shorter grounding. Her involvement in deciding the discipline should also lessen her feelings that Tom and you are too strict.

I think a job in a positive environment is a great idea. (BTW, are you sure it will be a positive environment?) A job in a good situation teaches responsibility. Ask her to explain what she will do differently this time so the new job becomes a positive experience. Her answer should indicate that she sees the new job as a second chance to take responsibility for her actions.

Goody, I had to laugh when I read your thoughts about the archer. When I first replied, I wanted to mention a bow and arrow but decided against it because I was worried everyone was getting weary of my analogies. Do we have ESP? :D

In closing, my ESP tells me that the reason that your daughter still listens to you in spite of Tom and you being “too strict” is that you show much more caring than anger towards her. Never lose that trait. As you well know, it is far more productive to be the sunshine rather than the wind. :angel:

goody2shuz 12-01-2004 02:49 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
Heartland....ESP???? No, I think you are my blesssing in disguise. Each time I hit rock bottom you seem to reappear and give me the tools that I need to deal with my latest's truly a blessing to have you here ( I don't mean to leave the others in the dust or to make them feel as if their any less important or to make you feel like a saint or someone I view as worth more than another) It's just that there are times like now that through my faith I believe God reveals Himself in the midst of other humans, even strangers to remind us that we are not alone and just this afternoon Tom & I were informed of more issues that we have yet to face with our daughter and I much more can we take and what can we do. Tom & I needed a plan and your last post is just what we needed.

I will post more later...daughter needs a ride to school....Goody

heartlandguy 12-01-2004 03:28 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
[QUOTE=goody2shuz]just this afternoon Tom & I were informed of more issues that we have yet to face with our daughter and I much more can we take and what can we do. Tom & I needed a plan[/QUOTE]Been there and know the feeling. That said, I thought that you would need more info much sooner than you expected. As I remember it, you are just cresting the first hill in the rollercoaster from hell; hang on tight and ignore the screaming. It will come at you so fast you won’t have time to think.

Remember, it’s all about surviving the child rearing years.

goody2shuz 12-01-2004 03:38 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
Okay....another little miracle, my friend offered to drive my daughter & it leaves me with a little time to post.

Before I go on I want to emphasize that I am not only seeking Heartland's advice here....I have met an awesome amount of people here who have offered an abundance of support and believe me I think I may be needing a fleet of angels to get me through :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

And with that said....this afternoon I was provided with more info than I was ready to hear which knocked me over. For those who have had the privilege of following my issues with my daughter...she has been using stacker 3's with ephedra and becme son volitile as to kicking her dad where it counts, scratching him etc. and it got to the point that it was mutually agredd upon for her to stay at my neighbor's house with one of her closest friends in order to work through some issues. While there it was discovered that she was supplied Stackers via people at her job who had asked for sexual favors in return (thank God she was smart enough to not do so & seek the help of one of her superiors) and since has been home and is no longer allowd to work at her job. Her behavior I must say has taken a 360 degree turn. We took her to her physician who did blood work including a drug screening and at that time she did admit using weed on Halloween only once at a party she went to while staying next door. And we had this most recent incident of drinking in her closet. I spoke with one of her friend's moms who told me that when her son got home the other night he cried for 3-4 hours and let out all the pressures he has had as a friend to others using alcohol, one friend that was date raped by a boy in a gang, another girl on his swim team who is suicidal etc. She said that he was sooooo upset because he felt that when he got drunk at our house (he admitted to having 6 shots of vodka & was one of the ones we stopped when he made up excuses in his drunken state of it being an accident waiting to happen us having liquor in our home etc.) that the way he behaved he wwas so afraid that he would never be seen in a good way in our eyes. She also said that he shared lots of things over the weekend that she felt as parents we ought to be made aware of. She informed me that my daughter shared with him about the stackers, the sexual harassment at work, all of which I assurred her that I knew. She then went on to share that the friend that our daughter was staying with next door is one of the heaviest drinkers and partiers and sexually promiscuous girls at school and that while my daughter was with her they were smoking weed at least twice daily and this info my daughter had shared with her son. This I was not aware of....sooooo while my daughter was allegedly working out issues next door she was smoking weed with her friend :eek: :eek: We have yet to confront our daughter....we want to validate the info & then I think we have the obligation to do one of the most difficult things and inform my neighbor of the same. In one of my other threads I had found out that my daughter's friend had been sexually active & fearing that she might be pregnant....I asked myself what I should do with this knowledge & thought it would be best to hold onto it for the time being. At the same time my daughter was staying at my was painful to hold onto this and when I'd get to the point of wanting to tell her she shared with me how she knew something about one of her son's friends and was extremely torn about whether to tell or not and decided that she just couldn't (it was that he was driving with a suspended license after drinking & several DWI's his parents were unaware of) And so....I held off, that is until today. I have to tell her...this is a woman who helped me out & whose friendship I may lose but I need to do this. What do you guys think?

I'm sorry...we have teacher conferences to get to & thought I'd post so you all could chew on this for a while...but this all happened & all before Heartland's you can see how it was a God :angel: send to receive....Goody

heartlandguy 12-01-2004 08:35 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
[QUOTE=goody2shuz]I have to tell her...this is a woman who helped me out & whose friendship I may lose but I need to do this. What do you guys think? [/QUOTE]Goody, I think you should tell your neighbor everything [u]that she can handle[/u]. I counted three major problems to tell her. Tell her them one at a time, seeing how she reacts to each one before attempting the next. Unless she suspects something, I would assume any one of the problems would floor her. You never mentioned if she is married or has someone for support. I ask because it would be extra tough to handle such news as a single parent.

Please keep us posted, Goody, and God bless you all. :angel:

jc60656 12-01-2004 09:26 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
I just wanted to let you know that your post reminded me alot of myself when I was a teenager too! My parents caught me in similar situations, and at the time I was so angry, and of course thought that they were being so unjust. But honestly, as time went on, I was able to make good decisions because I didn't want to upset them. And now, my best friend and I laugh about some of the stupid things we did, and we have said "Thank God our parents were so involved" on NUMEROUS occasions because we can look back and appreciate their efforts. And even today, I am honest with my parents and we are closer than I ever thought possible. So, keep doing what you are doing. No matter what- don't ever feel like the bad guy. Also, its important to let your daughter know that she isn't necessarily the bad guy either...because we all know that kids will experiment, but emphasize that you can only consider it a mistake if it happens once.

Good Luck- you seem to be doing an excellent job.

goody2shuz 12-02-2004 07:23 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
[QUOTE=heartlandguy]Goody, I think you should tell your neighbor everything [u]that she can handle[/u]. I counted three major problems to tell her. Tell her them one at a time, seeing how she reacts to each one before attempting the next. Unless she suspects something, I would assume any one of the problems would floor her. You never mentioned if she is married or has someone for support. I ask because it would be extra tough to handle such news as a single parent.

Please keep us posted, Goody, and God bless you all. :angel:[/QUOTE]

Hey...Heartland :wave: Yes I came up with a plan. I did call my nest door neighbor/friend & scheduled breakfast for Tuesday. She is married and a pretty decent person...we have had some problems in the past in terms of childrearing. Our daughters have been friends since the kindergarden and her daughter was a little racier than mine yelling obsenities over our fence when in 3rd or 4th grade. They drifted apart a few years as friends and then reunited in junior high. neighbor is not what I would consider my closest friend...ironically we attended the same high school her being a year ahead of me and into smoking/drinking & the such whereas I was as my user name suggests a "goody2shoes". We often laugh about that...she has the mouth of a truck driver which shocks everyone (just her way) and she will mow you down when it comes to being a children's advocate and that is sorta why I chose to have my daughter stay there...besides it being the closest place in proximity of my home. Now my neighbor, althougjh having this past history no longer drinks (still curses) and scares most of the kids because she don't take any nonsense. And she is stricter than any parent I know. So with that history here is the plan.

I will open up with saying that she needs to sit down because some of the things I am going to share with her will be upsetting. I will go on to tell her that I have learned of some information that concerns both of our daughters and as a neighbor & friend I feel I need to tell her & it was an inner struggle for me to determine whether it was the right thing to do...and that I have no doubt in my mind at this time that it is as difficult as it may be.

I will first assure her that I heard these things from several sources and ruled out the possibility of them being a result of gossip/rumor by validating their truthfulness with my daughter. We'll let my daughter be K and her's be D

1) Our daughters have been smoking weed together....for sometime now and mostly during the time that K was at your house. They got it from D's friend, who K knows as well but whom D spends alot of time with and K only went to his home on one occasion while she was with you. K says that most of the time the smoking took place in D's room when you took K in. K swears that they are no longer doing it after a scary incident when they smoked too much and caused their hearts to race...but I am not sure myself as to whether or not this is true. I just learned of this the day I scheduled our breakfast and feel it is my responsibility to let you know (BTW D's mother is aware that D has smoked weed "only once" as K had admitted to us prior to drug screening and D fessed up to lessen the punishment from her mom figuring that I would inform she is aware that D has used weed just not to this extent)

2) K also has informed me that D & her as well as many of their friends have been drinking for sometime. As you are already aware of there was an incident involving alcohol that took place in our home last week, not involving D. When getting information from K it was disclosed by her that your son had purchased a bottle of Rum and provided it to D & K to use. K gave us the empty bottle which contents had been used over an undetermined amount of time. I learned of this, again, on the day I scheduled our breakfast.

3) We come to the most difficult part of my task...the reason being that I have known this for a longer period of time....and was once again torn about whether or not to tell you. D has been sexually active with her last boyfriend & has had unprotected sex and even had the fear of possibly being pregnant. This again has been validated by K who pleaded with me at the time not to tell....I weighed it and was so leaning towards telling you, looking for the opportune time, when I got to it you shared out of the blue how you were in a similar predicament with one of your son's friends and decided it was best not to tell & with that I stopped myself leaving it in check to share if I saw a stronger reason to & vowing to watch over D myself. However....most recently I discovered from reliable sources that D's ex BF has a history of having sex with at least 10 other girls and I feel you needed to know so that you can have her tested for STD's and insure she be properly treated if necessary.

I am so certain that I am doing the right thing.....I think going in the order of things as outlined above would be the best route. Any suggestions....I am sure it will be the hardest day of my life and I don't know how things will go in terms of our friendship...I'm afraid she may see my daughter as infiltrating her home ( and believe me I don't mean to cast any stones but the supplier of the weed is a mere aquaintance to my daughter but a very close friend of D's to the point that I heard that she has a drawer full of clothes at his house that's how often she's there, whereas, my daughter was there once when she went with D while living at here house.) I will in no way place blame on is really my daughter's choice and whom I place the blame...however, I most fear that my neighbor may see my daughter's problems as the ignitor to her daughters. She is going to be quite shocked....last we spoke she was going on how responsible D is at parties to the point of going since she was in 6th grade & calling whenever there was alcohol to being picked up. daughter's first party that she attended at a house was to D's friend's party who is supplying the weed to them. We have a rule [B]who's[/B] house and[B] who's[/B] there,[B] what [/B] type of function &[B] what[/B] are you doing, [B]when[/B] (Timeframe), where (the address & phone #), & [B]how[/B](who will be driving). If we know the person & their parents are home, we are okay with the time not interfering with our plans/curfew, and that it is function that we see morally okay she is allowed to go. D's mom did check with me about K accompanying D to the party and after her alleviating my concerns of not knowing the family as well as another good friend of mine giving the thumbs up...we let her go. Not my friends fault....more mine and certainly even more K's.

Soo...what are your thoughts if any....I have a long weekend ahead & just want to see if my plan is layed out correctly. would appreciate any constructive critisism(sp??) that you've got.....Goody :yawn:

susieq0726 12-02-2004 09:28 AM

Re: Teens Drinking
Yikes!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

This is exactly why I have dogs and cats instead of kids!

I don't have much advice Goody, but I just wanted to say good luck and I am rooting for you!!!!!!

heartlandguy 12-02-2004 12:36 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
Hey, Goody :wave:

I am quite impressed with your plan, especially its detail. It is very well thought out. The only thing I don’t understand is why the meeting won’t occur before Tuesday. Waiting that long to do what you have to do would kill me. Is your neighbor unavailable before then or is there some other complication?

When deciding how to handle problems like those covered in this thread, we frequently justify our plans and actions based on our religious upbringings and beliefs. I am under the assumption that Tom is Roman Catholic, like I am. If you are, too, then some thoughts might be easier to convey or justify. For instance, it is amazing how often when I have a problem, the Sunday gospel takes on a new meaning for me and clarifies the issues. Being unsure of your religion, I have once avoided referencing an applicable point from the week’s gospel. If you understand what I am saying and think it serves your best interests, you may want to identify your religious denomination.

When I wrote you yesterday about constructive discipline, I was concerned about advising of shorter groundings because Tom and you appear to be slightly stricter than we were with our oldest. Indeed, some advise that strict is the way to go. However, you said today that your neighbor “is stricter than any parent I know”, yet look at how ineffective it has been for her. I doubt if any method of childrearing and discipline is effective in eliminating experimentation. Teens experiment until it loses its excitement. I think when teens see their parents as being too strict, the teens find additional excitement in experimenting and do it more often and for a longer duration. Breaking their parents rules becomes a game and they gain status with their peers by sharing their exploits. (Look at how much “dirt” K’s male friend knew and was willing to reveal!!! Teens do share their exploits!)

I believe the best we can do as parents is to add no additional challenge or excitement to experimentation and to help our teens mature as quickly as possible. If we can shorten the amount of time our teens spend experimenting, we shorten their period of risk. This does not mean avoiding discipline. For instance, grounding is an effective discipline as long as a teen resists correction; beyond that point it becomes an irritant and a negative influence. (Imagine a doctor telling you to remain in bed for a full month even though it took you only two weeks to completely heal. How would you react to those orders?) I believe it is up to the parents to monitor and evaluate the progress of grounded teen. A book report grounding helps the parents and teen interact so progress is somewhat easier to evaluate. Reading a self-improvement book provides the teen with positive reinforcement rather than boredom during the grounding. If you have any questions, please ask. :angel:

goody2shuz 12-02-2004 03:36 PM

Re: Teens Drinking
Heartland...I must reply quickly for it is Tom's birthday :bouncing: and we would like to celebrate and my younger daughter has a chamber choir concert with a solo and she is playing the trumpet as well...the birthday boy is thrilled to be sharing his stage with her :D :D Please forgive me if I don't address everything I will update most likely tomorrow. it turns out our breakfast turned out to be an afternoon snack session. The girls got together and realized we were having lunch and my daughter called from school saying that D wanted to tell her mom everything because she knew about the lunch date( saw it on the calendar) I told my daughter that D would have to do what she thought was right and we hung up. Now the reason we couldn't meet earlier than Tuesday was because of my neighbor's hectic schedule...I did tell her we had important stuff to discuss and Tuesday was the earliest. Well I called her cell wanting to inform her before she spoke to her daughter and told her it was urgent that she give me 15 minutes of her time. She wanted the info over the phone and I told her that what I had to say would have to be done face to face. She told me that I was scaring her and to meet her at her volunteer job right away. Not exactly the scenario that I had planned on and what lately in my life has been???? Actually my neighbor has IBS and I just recently had major intestinal surgery so the breakfast idea wouldn't have been the best setting for our conversation to take place.

All & all it went well. She kept on saying "I'm gonna kill her" the italian side of her coming out ;) It took the longest for us to formulate a plan...we both agreed that it would be best to act cool and wait for D to fess up and plan #2 if she didn't would be for my friend to tell D that our breakfast date took place early and for her to spill it all and to tell all because I had already told all. We made an appointment with a gyn...we have the same pediatricians and I helped her with that. She has an appointment to have testing for STD's on Tuesday.

We figure that this way we will gain more knowledge and anything left out so no more surprises come popping out. I'm expecting to hear some more after the interrogation next door tonite. :eek:

Anyway....please don't think I didn't acknowledge your plan's a wonderful one but when we presented it to our daughter...she cried & took it as if we were placing another punishment rather than seeing it as a substitution. When we asked her to come up with her own...she made mention of all the things we had done thus far but not your plan. We asked her to entertain it...she broke down and I told her she didn't have to decide right then & there but to let us know if she wanted our original punishment or to go to Borders with me after we had lunch to pick out a book together and perhaps use the time she had on her hands to do something constructive and lessen the length of her punishment by getting it done. I also gave her the choice of visiting a local drug/alcohol shelter run by our church that houses people who need emergency intervention when using alcohol/drugs and volunteering to assist in some way. And Heartland...we are Roman Catholics as well...we have made it a point to put attending mass as a family as our highest priority these past few months. We slacked off, I'm ashamed to say to attending 1-2 times/month and it was one of the first changes we made as a family and I am glad we did. I teach CCD and have for over 12 years and have a pastoral degree from college as a minor....which I am proud of. I taught my oldest daughter's class until Confirmation and am doing the same for my younger daughter. So feel free to share anything you have heard at mass or in your homily...this past Sunday's mass was great with the /gospel telling us to be ready and to put away the darkness & put on the light making ourselves ready for Jesus' coming this Advent season. We light our Advent candles each night at dinner and I really have tried to relate our lives to God & His commandments and yet I feel I have failed in someway. That's what hurts the most and I am now saying like you shared with me last time to "LET GO & LET GOD" another saying I love. Basically I have done my best to instill good morals in my children and yet they seem to be more influenced by this world and I often fear them being lost to it. I'm sure many parents feel the same way.

I am going to bake Tom a cake...last minute thing...he really doesn't expect anyting but I like to make the fuss. He layed down for a nap (he doesn't want to embaress our daughter by falling asleep at her big debeau ;) and by the way asked me to thank you for your plan and continued support. I will post tomorrow....this turned out longer than I thought as usual. Thanks for listening...I am blessed to have you as my friend....Goody :angel:

Susie...I am going to have dogs instead of kids in my next life...they don't talk back and they don't drink or do drugs either ;)

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