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Nayrb 02-01-2003 05:07 PM

Daughter out of control
 

If you are interested in reading this note please read it all and slowly because we really need help with this! Hi. Our daughter is 15 . For some reason for the last 3 years my wife and myself has become morons in her eyes. If your a parent of a teenage kid I probally don't have to say no more. Anyways the problem we encountered tonight was our daught was to bring her "first" new first boyfriend to the house for pizza then we were to drop then off at a movies. My daughter met with her boyfriend after he was dropped off (in our town) and then they went somewhere besides straight back to the house. They were 1 hour late. (pizza was here at 5;30 they never got her till 6:30) Ok now for the second part of this problem. We told our dughter about 2 weeks ago that if she brings her boyfriend to the house sometime we don't want her and him to go into her room to spend time. Well , as soon as they come into the house our dughter took him straight to her room. I went to her room about 15 minutes later and I asked them to both come upstairs for some pizza and neither wanted any(probally just too embarasses to eat in front of us) About 30 miutes later I went to the room and asked our daughter to show her b/f our pet. ( trying to pass the hint to our daught it was time to exit the room). But still she refused and told her b/f how stupid that sounds . I think my wife was ready to blow a fuse because of our dughters disrespect. My daughter has the internet in her room. She doesn't know this but I have installed spy software ( a parent has to do what a parent has to do) I don't want to spy on her activities but we are at the end of our rope with her disrespect and lies. I have enough evidence saved to make her throwup if I was to show her what we have learned. This is the only way into our daughters head, trust me!(even though you don't know me) She claims we are the problem in her life,and we never let her do this or that. Our daughter will not(she refuses) to out her dinner plates in the dishwasher or garbag in the garbage. She sticks her gum anywhere she pleases when she is finished with it. It is common for us to unstick used gum 12 times a week from various places around the house. Tonight when she was in her room with her b/f they were lighting off caps ( with 2 coins) I didn't go in to tell them to stop ( fire) because I didn't want her to become embarrased by it and make us out to look like inbasiles beind our backs to her b/f. ( common sense should have been with her at the time anyways) What should we do?? If we talk to our daughter about any type of a concern that we may have, she ALLWAYS turns around and faces away from us. And she WILL NOT turn and face us of look at us. Believe it or no but this disrespectful,uncaring,mouthy,little brat is a honour student in highschool. I have been taking accurate reading most nights form out water meter and she uses in average 45 gallons of water a night for a bath and a shower. And then she always washes her hair in the morning and the average usage of water for her hair only is 25 gallons. We have tried reasoning with her on every angle to conserve water but she refuses to cooperate. Every towel and every drawer she uses is left open or on the floor. School mornings are just as disasterous! We also have a 13 year old daughter that tells us that tshe doesn't want to be left alone with her because she threatens her all the time. Just for the record, we have never beat,spanked,humiliated or torchered our dughter to deserve any of this back in return. We are only guilty of love,shring and trust. HONEST! Thank you so much for any help.

msrivers 02-01-2003 05:15 PM

It is time to lay some ground rules then STICK TO THEM!!! You are the parents, who cares if you embarrass her or humiliate her? She is testing her boundaries and has obviously found out that there are none. You could also try to go to a parenting class or two. Check with your local high school to see if they know of any. IT HELPS!!

Nayrb 02-01-2003 05:19 PM

OK, I see what you mean by her testing us, but at this point we are worried about her doing stupid out of revenge. Maybe even suiside ( she does not show any suisidal tendencies but a parents mind will think anything) More please !!

Greenberry 02-01-2003 05:23 PM

It sounds like she is already running the show around your house, and I agree that you need to set some rules NOW! No boyfriends in the bedroom, no more internet in the bedroom (a BAD idea to start with), no threatening her sister, and if she misses being home when you have told her to be there, no going ANYWHERE except school and church for one month. And make it stick. She doesn't have to like it, she doesn't have to look you in the face, but she HAS to comply. As for the water usage and slobbiness, I would work on those secondary issues at a later time. Hopefully it is not too late to bring her back in line. The first time she defied you was the ideal time to start laying down the law. She is going to balk BIG TIME now, but if you stick with it, maybe she will eventually fall in line. Best wishes!

Nayrb 02-01-2003 05:26 PM

Should I hit her with the spy software on her computer ? Also I am still concerned out how far she will go out of anger . MORE PLEASE . Thanks

Greenberry 02-01-2003 05:34 PM

What purpose do you hope to accomplish by doing that? You need to sit down with her (and mom--if your wife is in fact mom) and tell her the rules. Are you afraid of her? Are you the dad here? Ask yourself, who is in charge around your house? Do you pay the bills or does she? Until she is paying her own way, she has to live by the house rules. If it were me, the internet would be gone tonight, and she would know what is expected of her. You just can't let her keep getting away with murder. So what if she insults you and your intelligence--she is a KID. You can't take anything she says personally, especially if you are doing what you know is right for her. If she is suicidal or goes totally mental on you, then you must get her the help she needs, but if she just being a brat, you can't let her continue. If you let her keep being a brat, in 10 years she will be a 25 year old brat.

Nayrb 02-01-2003 05:42 PM

Greenberry: at this point I don't care what she will be in 10 years. I'm only responcible for her till she;s 18. And what do I think I'll accomplish by showing her what I have Seen ?? Well I can show her how she tells her friend that we are f***ing idiots. I can show her the things that she is viewing in not nice. I can show her all the lies that she makes up.
I would appriciate any more advice please!! Thanks

Greenberry 02-01-2003 05:49 PM

Look, if you are so bent on proving to your daughter that you are not an idiot, go idea. But I don't see why you feel the need to prove yourself to a KID. I personally wouldn't care if my daughter thinks I am an idiot or not, but she has to live by my rules until she leaves my home whether she likes them or not. I plan to have reasonable rules when I have teenagers, but if the rules are disobeyed, there will be serious consequences. It seems that your daughter has not faced serious consequences for her behavioral transgressions for a long time, if ever. Also, I just thought I would appeal to your concern for your daughter's future. Most parents want to raise their children to be decent adults, and I thought that by pointing out the future consequences of YOUR actions, you might be motivated to act.

Nayrb 02-01-2003 05:59 PM

5 weeks ago she brought home 6 condoms and put 3 of them in her sisters coat pocket and ordered her sister to take them to school to give to people. My wife found them in the coat and questioned the youngest about them. The youngest ratted out the oldest. We spoke to the oldest about this and we were reasured that they were for no peticular purpose. We told her to never bring them in the house again. 1 week later we found 50 condoms in the oldest daughters room. So instead of causing a big rumpus I just removed them and let her face the emmbarasment when she found them missing. Last week I found 100 condoms in her room . I then questioned her WHY!!! she gave no answer, The only answer she gave was we are morons!

Blastoff9600 02-01-2003 06:03 PM

I have to agree with Greenberry. The modem would be yanked out of that computer so fast her head would spin. Either that or move the computer where it is in a family area. We keep our computer in the living room(granted our kids arent old enough to be online).
As for the bf beingin the room. You told her before hand that wasnt to happen. You should have stuck to it. Open the door and tell her it had to stay open. When I was a teen one of my friend's parents took the door off of her room. She had her bf over one time and had shut the door. Her parents and told her before hand that the door had to stay open. Well she didnt beleive them that they would punish her if she didnt mind. Well the door came off. They did let her hang a cloth wall hanging over the doorway but if people were over it had to be pulled back. Worked wonders for her. She was allowed to haveher door back after about 2 or 3 months. Let me tell you that door stayed open from then on when her bf was over.

You need to make your rules stick whether she likes it or not.

Nayrb 02-01-2003 06:10 PM

Let me clairify something, when they were in her room the door was not shut the door was open. Now let me ask this question, is it ok or acceptable for them to be in the bedroom together ? evn if they are just reading ?? Would you allow your daughter and her b/f to be in her room together ?

rainflower 02-01-2003 09:11 PM

My sons arent quite teens yet but I think about the future all the time, what you are guilty of is caring too much what your daughter "thinks" of you, it isnt time for you or your wife to be her friend anymore...you have to buckle down.
The two of you should sit down and figure out once and for all what is acceptable in your household based on what the two of you want & need not your children, they shouldnt have a say in this. Then write it down and take whatever measure you have to to make sure that they are followed 100 percent of the time. I wasnt allowed to have boys in my room and I wont allow my sons to have girls in their rooms. The computer, phone,tv,car,allowance,even stereo privileges should be revoked and earned back- by complete adherence to your rules. YOu and your wife have to take a united stand and not allow her to continue down this path.
I think you should seek counseling for every member of your family in varying degrees. It sounds drastic and dramatic to just become so militant, but truly it sounds like you are telling us that she is out of control and you are scared. Most likely she is also and if you let her continue she will go past the scared part and into complete terror....and you may not get her back. Im sorry to say I think you should have had control of the reigns many,many years ago but it isnt too late. Please remember that loving her does not allow abuse...either of her sibling or of her parents. Someday I hope she is grateful, but if she isnt then you will at least know that you tried your darndest to help her, ultimately they can make their own decisions which can lead to breaking our hearts..but at sixteen while she is still under your roof she HAS to be under your control until she can clearly and wisely be trusted to make her own safe decisions. Good luck it wont be fun, nor easy...but I see it as your only choice.

[This message has been edited by rainflower (edited 02-02-2003).]

msrivers 02-02-2003 08:48 AM

She will balk, and big time!! She will call yuo everyname in the book and then some. However, you are her parents, she needs to learn to respect that. She will not like the boundaries you place on her and she will threaten all sorts of stuff just to see what type of reaction she will get out of you. Strip away ALL privledges, and let her earn them back SLOWLY. Right now she has to regain your trust and confidence. Also, your youngest daughter needs to feel safe in her own home. You have to brainstorm with your wife to see how to get that to happen. Right now I don't have anymore advoce. I will say I have been through a similair situation, many of the dynamics were different, but the indepence streak was definatley there!!

Zegna 02-02-2003 09:34 AM

First of all I would like to say I think your use of the spy software is an invasion of her privacy. Does she keep a diary? That would probably make for an interesting read. When she finds out she is likely to loose the last morsel of respect she has left for you.

She obviously didn't become this way overnight. You have lost her respect and allowed her to become uncivilised.

So she had her boyfriend in her bedroom (with the door open), I don't see any problem with that at all apart from the fact that you had specifically told her not to beforehand but that again comes back to respect.

But even if the door was shut what do you really think they are going to get up to with you within earshot. If they were going to be having sex I am sure they would be far more comfortable elsewhere. But at least if sex had been on the cards she was responsible enough to have had condoms at hand.

I think she was right, asking her to show her boyfriend your pet really does sound stupid. You are definitely not "cool" parents and from this point will probably never be able to be "cool" parents in her eyes. And I wouldn't worry too much about what her boyfriend thinks of you, most parents only really make their own kids cringe. I am sure her boyfriend treats you with a lot more respect and politeness than your daughter if only for the fact he is a guest in your home. If you are friendly and polite towards him and he likes you maybe he will even be able to get a small part of the way towards making your daughter realise you are not so bad, if they are still together next week that is.

I was raised by great parents, they were always loving, compassionate, understanding and supportive. They were always open minded and reasonable, never judgemental, had great perspective and hadn't forgotten what it was like to be kids. They were "cool" parents. This allowed me to always be up front with them and they knew a lot more about what I was getting up to than any unreasonable diary reading parents did about their child.

I am not saying my parents had no rules, we were allowed more freedom but when my parents did say something we would always listen. My parents spent a lot of time from a young age talking to us about important things and sharing their wisdom with us. My parents instilled a lot of confidence into my siblings and I, taught us to be good human beings, right from wrong (although definitely not from the narrow minded, judgmental, hypercritical, moralistic Christian view), how to overcome peer pressure, be responsible and to make good choices.

As for what you can do to fix the current situation with your daughter I would suggest you stop clashing heads. Relax, always great her with a smile, praise her when she does something good, tell her you love her (if you can't say that slap yourself), tell her she is beautiful, hug her, remain calm at all times and don't do anything to antagonise her. That would mean I would leave her computer where it is (and uninstal the spy software), I can't see the computer as having a lot to do with this issue.

Leaving gum on walls and furniture is just gross and it is definitely not at all unreasonable for her to put her rubbish in the bin and plate in the dish washer. But again you must tread carefully, you need to win back some respect and make her "give a ****" again before you will make any progress here. I would really hope she is already fully aware that leaving rubbish and gum around the house is uncivilised.

Tell her you are going to start treating her more like an adult starting immediately if she can show a little more respect. Ask for her advise, what does she really want to change. You must be reasonable and in return you need to think hard about a few little things you really want her to change. Don't go trying to set hard, inflexible limits on everything, you should try and be more flexible. You really need to reopen the lines of communication. If she really wont listen maybe try writing her a hand written letter. Tell her you love her, miss her, tell her you are proud of how she has been doing at school, tell her you want to work with her to create a home where everyone can live comfortably and merrily, ask for her thoughts, ideas, mention the gum *yuck*, the excessive water use- appeal to the environmentalist in her, ask her what she would like to be different, invite a reply and tell her that you would love to be able to have a grown up conversation with her.

Get tough with her if you want a missing child, if you want your sweet little girl back you need to be bigger than her, don't argue or fight but instead be willing to give some ground and let her know how much she is loved.

Well that's all for now. Sorry my thoughts were not better organised but I sure you can take some ideas from my rambling.

Nayrb 02-02-2003 01:34 PM

Zegna: Please don't take this the wrong way OK, but you failed to read what I have written. Let me intruduce myself and my wife to you. Picture your great parents that you descibed in your post, ok now that you see them, that is US! As for her diary, we have read it often, we are careful to return keys back to the original position so she don't know we were snooping. Her diary has a lot of hatred written in it about her mother and myself. We don't understand why!! How would your parents understand it if you wrote stuff like we have read in your diary ?? Well that's the senerial ! The diffrence between diary and spyware is is being able to see into their heads more clearly. And besides , whatever goes on in my house IS MY BUSINESS! No matter how I find out about it. Please understand this! And as for what can they do behind closed doors? Welll maybe there isn't time to "rip one off" but there is unappropriate touching. Sex is a beautiful thing that 2 people can share and I don't expect it to waite untill the wedding night. But don't you think that if your gonna "do it" with someone, that you should atleast know their middle name ?? I appreciate all the help and input that I am receiving off this site, but please, before anyone starts to create their own opinions about my wife and I, please don't rule out a BIPOLAR disorder first. We havn't!

Greenberry 02-02-2003 02:04 PM

This is my last attempt to advise you. I don't seem to be saying what you want to hear. You seem to want to put everything on your daughter--maybe she IS in fact mentally ill, but she sounds like a "normal" teenager to me. The only problem that I detect from reading your posts is that she is pushing her limits and that you are ALLOWING yourself to be pushed. You don't want her to not like you, so you are trying to be a "cool" parent. However, I can't help but notice that your daughter already doesn't like you, so if she is going to hate your guts anyway (like most teenagers do their parents) then you could at least do the right thing and have discipline and structure in your home. It is wrong that she is allowed to victimize your other daughter and your whole family because you think that will make her like you. You really need to get over the fact that she thinks you're dumb (also typical of teenagers--I remember it well!). She is a KID. You are supposed to be an adult. What if you had a situation at your workplace, where you know someone is doing wrong (REALLY WRONG--like stealing) or hurting someone else? Are you going to keep silent just so that person will not dislike you? If so, you are setting a bad example for your daughter. If not, then why are you allowing your daughter to get away with behavior that you would not condone in someone else?

The condom story is a good example and should have taught you a few things. You didn't lay down the law, and the situation kept getting worse. You seem to expect your daughter to develop a conscience on her own, which doesn't happen. You didn't want to cause a rumpus, so you just removed the condoms, expecting her to feel embarassed. Did she feel embarassed? Heck no, she just went out and got more. And on top of that, you were real cool about the whole thing, and she STILL thinks you are a moron. Why not at least DO THE RIGHT THING with her if she is going to think you're stupid regardless?

Most teenagers think their parents are stupid, or at least say that they think their parents are stupid at some point in time. I thought my parents were really dumb, with their rules, and their curfews, and their "no boyfriends in the bedroom" policy, etc., etc. But my parents set some limits for me, and enforced them, and that is why I did not go out of control pushing and seeing what I could get away with. I knew I could get away with NOTHING. Your daughter is pushing, and finding that she can get away with murder, while you are on the defensive hoping that she won't think you're dumb. Parenting on the defensive is not effective, and you and your daughter are finding that out.

You are the parent, and you and your wife pay all the bills in your home. That gives YOU the responsibility to make the rules regarding behavior in your home. You and your wife should sit down and make up the rules and let your daughters know what they are. At the next infraction of the unruly daughter (after warning her what will happen), her bedroom should be stripped down to a mattress on the floor, the ceiling light fixture, school books and two outfits of clothing. No door, no computer, no TV, NOTHING. Then, each day that she stays in line, she gets something back. Another screw-up, something leaves. She will not like it, and will probably call you every name in the book, but that is what I would do. That's all I can say.

*SoccerMom* 02-02-2003 02:39 PM

Nayrd~
I totally agree with Greenberry. I feel that your daughter is given too many freedoms that she doesn't deserve. You and your wife seem afraid to cause waves. I was a hard to control teen who loved to test those limits...I learned quickly what those boundaries were. I do not have a biopolar disorder but I think that the crazy things that I did was part of being a teenager. I think that you and your wife should make those boundardaries clear to your daughter and ENFORCE them. If my son talks back or doesn't do as he is told then he knows he is in trouble. You made the comment about asking her to come for pizza, then you tried to send hints after they were in there for 45 minutes about it was time for them to come out. When she ignored your request to come eat, you should have MADE her come out. Greenberry was right about taking those freedoms away....I would just give her the basics until she learns that she will have to respect you and your rules. There would be no friends over and no activities other than school until she is making progress. I agree with the spyware and reading the diary because it is obvious that she is out of control. I would make her do her chores, respect your home (that gum and condom thing was outrageous!)

**"Tonight when she was in her room with her b/f they were lighting off caps ( with 2 coins) I didn't go in to tell them to stop ( fire) because I didn't want her to become embarrased by it and make us out to look like inbasiles beind our backs to her b/f. ( common sense should have been with her at the time anyways) What should we do??"

I think that you should care less about what she and her friends think about you and think about how much she is disrespecting all of you. She just says and does whatever she wants and you don't do anything so she doesn't get offended! I don't understand that.

**"at this point I don't care what she will be in 10 years. I'm only responcible for her till she;s 18."

I think this is the saddest part of your post. I feel my children are blessings that were given to me to care for until the end of time. I will always care what they are doing and if they are happy... whether it is 10, 20, 50, or 80 years from now.

Best of luck to all of you.

Nayrb 02-02-2003 05:43 PM

OK Ok Ok disapline it will be. I have read each and everyone of the replys and I appreciate it muchly and it has all been noted. Let me apply this fianal senerial: What do you suggest if this out of control daughter just can't take the disapline any further and angerly and abruptly exits the home in a huff with a few choice words to boot? Do we (1)chase after her and drag her back into the home? (2) let her go and hope she returns soon? (and hope she never done anything stupid) (3) remove another artical of importance for her room? Ps. We're not playing with you's here. These are real concerns of ours. thanks again

mushroom1 02-02-2003 10:40 PM

Naybr, try not to take your daughter's insults personally. Most teenagers talk terribly about their parents and don't really believe most of what they say...they are trying to push away from you.

However, your daughter seems over the top. I wouldn't accept her behavior. For one thing, there would be no more gum chewing until she can learn to throw chewed gum in the garbage. I would reward good behavior and punish bad behavior and accept the fact that she is not going to like you for a while...but she probably doesn't like herself very much and is just puting it on you. Maybe therapy would help?

Good-luck.

Zegna 02-03-2003 05:18 AM

Mushroom- how on earth do you suggest this man stop his daughter from chewing gum? You are doing the same as every one else on here, saying do this and that but offering no practical advise as to how to enforce it. I will say it again, this girl doesn't "give a sh*t" and has no respect for her parents. Nayrb himself asked for some help regarding the enforcement of all these get tough plans but no one has been forthcoming. So to those that say set the ground rules and stick to them, ground her, take away her freedom, no gum in the house etc- What is he to do when he says she isn't going somewhere but she decides she is going regardless? Should he handcuff her to her bed? She just doesn't care and has no respect but no one seems to get that. Every one is talking like it is just so easy- why not just give her a time out lol...really people

This man faces a very difficult challenge and given his results up to this point I am far from convinced he is up to the challenge. But he can't give up. Theraphy might help if his daughter is willing, which I am not sure she would be, forced participation will not produce any results.

If you would stop clashing heads with her, relax, let her know you love her and do your best to get her speaking to you again that would be a good start.


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