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    Old 09-12-2004, 12:39 AM   #1
    Ninispjc
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    I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Elatedgiraffe was nice enough to inquire how I was doing and I didn't want to take another person's thread, and I've been here for a while and given my advise and opinions ad nauseum, but have never started a thread of my own, so I thought maybe if I did, I could deal with my own issues all in one shot, and keep it out of other threads except to pass on my experience. Anyway, here we go...

    Most of you may know that my relationship issue is with an ex, break up 6 1/2 years ago, he married 2 years ago. I was pretty destroyed after he left me, but when I found out he married, I fell apart all over again, and I just can't seem to put myself back together. Mainly because during the course of our relationship, he drew a pretty hard line regarding his religious and moral beliefs. He didn't believe a woman with children should work outside the home. I have gene pool issues and wanted to give our kids the very best chance of getting the best genes we could give them, and I did research into natural family planning and "accidents" with this method had a higher chance of birth defects because of old sperm or eggs, and he couldn't be with a woman who would use birth control. We saw a toothpaste commercial with just the mother and her sons and he threw a fit that the father wasnt' shown because it implied divorce, which was unspeakable. We were with some friends and their kids and one of the little girls was asking one of the women about the man she was with , that he was her boyfriend, but not her kids' dad and the woman explaining she was divorced. I mentioned this to my ex and he shook his head with sadness and a little disgust at the idea of divorce. He said that was one reason for him sticking with me was because we were getting to the age that other women his age would most likely be divorced and he really didn't want to marry a divorcee, especially if she had kids from another man. He didn't believe in premarital sex either, and neither do I really, but he felt guilty over what we did do, and sort of felt it was me who didn't put the brakes on enough. Anyway, we went round and round about this stuff, even though I basically agreed with him, just not so vehemently and felt stifled which made me take a stand more obnoxious than what was really in my heart, but I would just get soooooo tired of him being sooooo stubborn and immovable and so rigid to the point of being a little crazy in my opinion. And we were both in bad places in life, career and money struggles, unhappy with living situation, etc. And there was unhealthy competition. We're both musicians, and I always sort of felt sort of disrespected and not valued very much by him. His band played a weekend gig out of town and we all spent a rainy afternoon in a cabin, and the guitar player broke out his guitar and started playing "girl" songs, so I sang 3 or 4 songs and everyone said really nice things. Instead of being proud, he seemed to get a bit annoyed. He went and got his guitar and got the guitar player's attention and started working on songs to jam on, and I asked "Hey do you know such and such a song" and my ex frowned, waved his hand at me and said "just a minute..." and that was the end of my singing along, even though he got to play all night with the band. Toward the end of our relationship, he started getting moody and distant, and even a bit mean at times, and I made it clear that I knew how I felt and even though he had our issues, I was in it for good. He left me, but insisted it was mutual, though it most definitely was not, and said it was because we werent compatible enough on the religious issues. Then he started sleeping with a divorcee with the ink still wet on her papers, three kids, the oldest living with the angry ex who lives to make their lives miserable, and her sticking her youngest two in day care while she worked all day, and tied tubes.
    So...now, I just can't stop scratching my head wondering what in world happened. Why wasn't I good enough, why didn't I deserve a little honesty, respect, why couldn't he be proud of what I could do musically? He never said more than "pretty good" when I sang. I sang once with his band and he seemed angry and upset while we were onstage, singing loudly over me, and when we got offstage, all his friends said how good I sounded, but I was wondering why he seemed so mad, so to fish for what was going on, I asked "how did that sound?" He said "ok." I got a bit fed up at this and said, a bit sarcastic but with a smile on my face, "that's all?" and he flipped and snapped at me "I work with great singers all the time, I'm used to being around good singers, God, I didn't know your ego was so starved!" I think he was most likely being abusive on purpose because he wanted me gone but didn't have the guts to leave, since he had broken up with me twice before, both times very painful for me, and he had sworn he'd never leave me again, and we got measured for rings, looked at wedding sets, etc. I don't know why I didn't deserve more respect, why couldnt' he compromise for me the way he compromised for his wife, why wasnt' I worth it, or was it all a rouse and from the getgo he never cared for me and put on this elaborate show pretending to be someone he never was to get me to warm his bed but keep me at arm's length to make the getaway smoother? why why why. Since then I've sung for people who work with the real pros and they've all been genuinely impressed. So, I just can't stop asking what happened, and can't stop crying, all that stupid stuff. Can't help feeling so stupid because he said a few times that he wished I had dated more men before him since I didnt' seem to know much about the male ego, and toward the end it changed from "I wish you had dated more men" to "I think you should date other men" and I was too stupid to see the difference. I know I made more than my share of mistakes in the relationship, I didn't value him enough, and i was too nagging and nitpicky, but I just can't seem to move on and I'm so tired of crying, so tired of feeling like someone kicked me in the gut and froze my brain and replaced my blood with lead. All our mutual friend has to say about any of it was "it wasn't personal." I've tried everything, drowning myself in volunteerism, my music, going to clubs and meeting new people, dating services, shrinks, pills, St. John's Wort, everything, but nothing seems to make a difference. It's like I died when he left me and I'm just this lifeless zombie walking around. Plus it doesn't help that I face 40 in about 5 months and am so lonely I can't stand it, no spouse or kids, which I always wanted all my life in the worst way, and I can feel my eggs shrivelling.

    Well, so there it is out there in black and white in all its glory. People who know me I'm sure know it's me from the facts I've given. But anyway, now that it's out, I'm sure I won't feel the need to go into as much detail about my own experience in other threads. And if anyone has anything to add, feel free, but please, not if all you have to say is stop the self pity and get a life. Heard it ad nauseum from friends and family. But if you have something new, I'm game. Thanks y'all.

    Last edited by Ninispjc; 09-12-2004 at 12:47 AM.

     
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    Old 09-12-2004, 07:07 AM   #2
    Ruth6:11
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Ninispjc, I hear not ONE iota of self-pity in your post.
    There is honesty, soul-searching, emotional suffering, love, and alot of anqush. But no self-pity.

    The feelings you have for this man are extemely powerful. And if you're not Christian (not meaning denominational like Methodist or Catholic) I apologize for suggesting this - it seems you have tried everything else... I normally don't get "religious" here as you know, I just seem to have to say this.

    Give those feelings to God. Tell him that He'll have to carry them for awhile because you can't anymore. Tell Him to use those feelings for good somewhere. Tell him that this is one place you need to look back on at the end of your life and see just one set of footprints.
    Kind of a request that the burden be lifted off your shoulders (heart) for a bit...

    Also, I don't think there IS an answer on how he could do such a 180.
    My first thought was that he doesn't have a shred of inner integrity. But then at age 50 I've discovered that sometimes things work out the way they're supposed to even if you can't see it until much later.

    My husband's first real love told him she never wanted to have kids (which are a big deal in his family). He loved her enough that he told her that he would deal with not being a father.
    And of course, she dumped him and ended up getting married and having THREE kids.
    He STILL doesn't understand why she didn't want kids when he knew her and then she ended up having a bunch.
    But - the silver lining was that 15 years later he met me (who can't have kids) and he'd "been there, done that" and it was no big deal. He coaches Jr. Bowling and has 270 kids every week to teach and joke with. I have a "favorite aunt" status with all my nieces & nephews & "greats".

    I guess that what I'm wanted to express is that even though we may not end up with who we dreamed of (you'll recall I have a soul-mate and a "been in love with this guy since I was 20" along with my husband)
    it DOESn't mean that the rest of your life ends up being a wasteland.
    I'm proof of that.
    And since you've become a person I respect highly here I just want to tell you that no matter how your love life turns out, the REST of you has alot to give!!!

    Thanks for coming here and giving newbies and the rest of us the benefit of your experience. Sometimes that's all you can do with it -
    BUT, imagine what it may do for the other person??
    Something you say, out of experience, out of your own pain, may be of tremendous help to someone here.

    Thanks again, and if there was a way to have a virtual slumber party you & I should be the hostesses! (What lives we have had)
    Your friend,
    Ruth

    Last edited by Ruth6:11; 09-12-2004 at 07:14 AM.

     
    Old 09-12-2004, 08:02 AM   #3
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    I can sum up this guy in one word: Loser. Be happy you are rid of him and that he is someone else's headache now. Why didn't he want you? Because you are way too good for him Stop focusing on what you did wrong (NOTHING) and start looking at what he did right (NOTHING). It wasn't about *your* shortcomings* it was about his.

    Six years is a long time to have wasted pining over this man who didn't deserve you in the first place. If you really feel you can't move on, you need to seek therapy. I know you said you don't want to hear anything about getting a life.. but don't you want one? Your only options are remaining miserable forever or getting over it. It's a choice only you can make. I suppose it's a self esteem issue more than anything else. If you believed you were fabulous (and you ARE), you would see that you deserved a wonderful man who cherished you.

     
    Old 09-12-2004, 09:29 AM   #4
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hi Ninispjc,

    It sounds like you might be more upset about how he disrespected you and undermined your self-esteem than actually losing this guy. You seem to realize that he had many flaws and did not treat you the way a BF and especially a husband should. From what you've written it is clear that this is not the right guy for you. Your perfect match would never question your morals, refuse to support your talent and career goals, and make you feel like you didn't deserve better treatment. Also, why I completely respect people's religious convictions, I've noticed that people who feel that they have the right to make moral judgments on other people's lives usually end up being huge hypocrites (like he is by having premarital sex with a divorced woman).

    Honestly, I'd have to agree with your friend who said it wasn't personal--it sounds like this guy had major issues to deal with during your relationship, like conflicting moral views, insecurity about his own talent, etc., and he wasn't ready to be a good partner to anyone. Someone who is unhappy and confused about his life, who doesn't seem to like himself, can never be the kind of SO you deserve. Your comment "Why wasn't I good enough, why didn't I deserve a little honesty, respect, why couldn't he be proud of what I could do musically?" makes me really sad. Obviously you are a wonderful person who DOES deserve all these things, including respect for your talent. I am sure there are plenty of men who would love to treat you great. But just as he couldn't be a good SO until he worked through his issues, I doubt you'll be ready for another relationship until you heal these emotional wounds.

    This is not a guy you should be pining over--if you were still together, I bet you'd be even more upset and down on yourself, and I think you know this somwhere deep down. It seems like what you really need to focus on is rebuilding your self-esteem, which he cruelly destroyed in an effort to boost his own lacking confidence. You will not be able to move forward unless you can let these feelings go and learn to love yourself again. You know you are talented, caring, intelligent--just look at how much you've helped everyone here. I hope you give some thought to the possibility that it's not him (a situation which you can't control and therefore will never give you peace if you continue to dwell on it) but the way he undermined your self-worth that is really the issue here.

    Your own self-image IS something that is within your power to control, and I know you have the strength and courage to work on loving yourself again. It sounds corny, but I've always thought there was a lot of wisdom in the saying: "have the courage to accept what you can't change, the strength to change what you can change, and the wisdom to know the difference" (or something like that ). You'll never be able to heal yourself if you keep pining over him, because you'll never get him back and even if you did, I doubt he'd make you happy. I hope this didn't sound harsh. I just hate to see such a wonderful woman suffering so much over a guy who doesn't deserve it because he's the one who made you question your value in the first place. Take care of yourself honey, and good luck.

     
    Old 09-12-2004, 09:30 AM   #5
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    He left me, but insisted it was mutual, though it most definitely was not, and said it was because we werent compatible enough on the religious issues. Then he started sleeping with a divorcee with the ink still wet on her papers, three kids, the oldest living with the angry ex who lives to make their lives miserable, and her sticking her youngest two in day care while she worked all day, and tied tubes.
    How did/does he rationalize to you the above when asked - relative to his previous strong convictions?

     
    Old 09-12-2004, 01:55 PM   #6
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    I am dumbfounded as to how you have allowed this man to control your thoughts, your happiness and your life after all these years?

    You are an intelligent woman, I have read your posts, and you have offered wonderful advice in here on these boards.

    WHO WERE YOU BEFORE this man ever entered into your life so long ago?
    WHY do you hold onto him? Why do you hold onto the words he used on you?
    Those were empty words. Why do you question yourself on what he thought of you or said when he gave you empty bull ****

    He did not practice what he preached to you, he brainwashed you and you are allowing him to continue to control you and your thoughts. YOU will never be happy or able to move on till you remove him from your thoughts.
    “Maybe” there was some truth in what he said maybe they were all lies.
    He has moved on from you and YOU my friend, need to remove EVERYTHING he ever told you out of your mind.
    Asking yourself over and over WHY or WHAT you could have done better won’t bring him back. Frankly, I don’t see anything you did wrong, but this guy would have continued to find everything wrong with you or the relationship had you two stayed together.

    Getting a life is merely starting over. A new direction for you, making small changes or drastic changes to something unknown. Right now all you know is pain, suffering, missing this guy who hurt you so badly you don’t remember what being Happy is about.

    Make turning 40 a beautiful experience by celebrating a new life for yourself. You have wasted too much time and energy on this man who does not deserve it. HE is not God, He is not an idol, he is not Donald Trump, he is no Prince. He’s just a man, a man who at one time had some stupid ego trip beliefs that for some reason Empowered You.
    Get your self worth back You have given this man much too much credit to where your happiness should be, your happiness is within yourself.
    He would have never made you happy. Stop giving him all the credit to your happeniness in life, Stop thinking about him, Start thinking about yourself and how you want to Start living again. Start living today for YOU. You have to tell yourself to start living again for today and tomorrow not what was yesterday. That is gone but you are not. There is a person within you that wants to start living again but you are not allowing it.

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 06:14 AM   #7
    eightball61
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hey Nini

    I do know you story well and I love it when you share it and talk about it. I know that it hard but this man has moved on and married and you are still thinking of the past with him. I am not your heart and I can't tell you to move on because it takes some people a long time to heal over stuff like this.

    It has been a long time and other may tell you its time to move but take as much time as you want because if push something now you may not be happy. I am always willing to offer you and Ruth a few of my younger friends but let me know and I will share.

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 08:57 AM   #8
    Ninispjc
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Music4All
    How did/does he rationalize to you the above when asked - relative to his previous strong convictions?
    I don't really know how he rationalizes it. I haven't seen or spoken to him since we broke up, and I found out about who he married through our mutual friend. All our friend has to say is "I guess he just changed. "

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 09:04 AM   #9
    Ninispjc
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Thanks all for your support and nice comments. Let me see if I can remember and answer some of the questions you had. Yes, I am a Christian (born and raised Catholic but have also explored several other religions) and ask the Lord every day to please carry this pain for me. The bottom line as far as my religious beliefs goes is that I guess I'm just going through this for a reason, and time and God will reveal what that reason was/is.

    I would love to move on Jeff, but like I think we discussed in another thread a while back, I'm just not sure what that is or what that means. I'm a pretty emotionally driven, passionate person, and since he was the only man I've ever kissed, held, etc etc etc., that's all I know when I think about love, romance or sex, and all of that is and always has been so important to me, so it 's hard to just block all of that out.

    But thanks again all for your input. I appreciate it. Just knowing you folks care enough to have read all of that and reply means something to me.

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 09:11 AM   #10
    eightball61
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ninispjc
    I would love to move on Jeff, but like I think we discussed in another thread a while back, I'm just not sure what that is or what that means. I'm a pretty emotionally driven, passionate person, and since he was the only man I've ever kissed, held, etc etc etc., that's all I know when I think about love, romance or sex, and all of that is and always has been so important to me, so it 's hard to just block all of that out.


    You sound like a great person and as a guy you would grab my my attention. We have spoken about this this before and I know you answer is the same. I do wish you the best of luck and I hope you can find someone to replace him.

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 04:21 PM   #11
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hi Nini - I wish I could offer advice, but instead I'm gonna go along the lines of what Ruth said, and Thank You for being here to offer advice to others, including me. Your kind and understanding words are a blessing.
    I'm not a reg poster, but I know your story, and though I'm not exactly in your shoes, mine are similar. And when I have posted, you have always had kind words to say.
    I know you just can not get over someone, as I'm in that same place. Of course I'm only on 6 months, but I still won't be over it in six years, I'm sure. I'm sorry for all your pain and hurt, and I hope it helps you to know you are appreciated here. So, I just wanted to say thanks!!

     
    Old 09-13-2004, 04:57 PM   #12
    Ninispjc
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lisa24
    Hi Nini - I wish I could offer advice, but instead I'm gonna go along the lines of what Ruth said, and Thank You for being here to offer advice to others, including me. Your kind and understanding words are a blessing.
    I'm not a reg poster, but I know your story, and though I'm not exactly in your shoes, mine are similar. And when I have posted, you have always had kind words to say.
    I know you just can not get over someone, as I'm in that same place. Of course I'm only on 6 months, but I still won't be over it in six years, I'm sure. I'm sorry for all your pain and hurt, and I hope it helps you to know you are appreciated here. So, I just wanted to say thanks!!
    Oh Lisa, please don't say you'll be where you are six years from now! You never know what the Lord has in store for you. I'm doing my best to hang on. I don't feel like I have a today, and tomorrow is unknown, so it's so hard not to live in yesterday, but you're so young and a wonderful, sensitive, insightful person. No matter how much it hurts, you just have to go out there and live your life, and I'll bet you before you know it, you'll hear a deep, resounding, hearty laugh in your ears, and you'll look around, and it will be you!

    Keep your chin up and be the best Lisa you know how to be. I know good things will come to you. And thanks for the sweet words.

     
    Old 09-14-2004, 08:12 PM   #13
    Ninispjc
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by reni
    I can sum up this guy in one word: Loser. Be happy you are rid of him and that he is someone else's headache now. Why didn't he want you? Because you are way too good for him Stop focusing on what you did wrong (NOTHING) and start looking at what he did right (NOTHING). It wasn't about *your* shortcomings* it was about his.

    Six years is a long time to have wasted pining over this man who didn't deserve you in the first place. If you really feel you can't move on, you need to seek therapy. I know you said you don't want to hear anything about getting a life.. but don't you want one? Your only options are remaining miserable forever or getting over it. It's a choice only you can make. I suppose it's a self esteem issue more than anything else. If you believed you were fabulous (and you ARE), you would see that you deserved a wonderful man who cherished you.
    Thanks for your comments. I must admit I do cringe at the "T" word. There's still such a stigma in this country about going to get your head shrunk. But I actually was in therapy off and on for four years after we broke up. I guess it just didn't take. Maybe it is a self-esteem issue to a degree, I don't know. That's actually what he said to me once. He was getting ready to leave me I think, and he knew how badly it would hurt me, and he made a comment that the idea of not being able to live without someone you've come to love so much is a sign of low self esteem. So I guess I sort of see that as just an excuse now. I mean, look at Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash. They were inseperable, partners in every sense, and they both died within like 6 months of each other. I've heard of that happening sometimes, couples grow to be so close and come to depend on each other so much they literally don't want to be without each other. What's really being said is I'm not lucky enough to have the person I loved this much to love me back, so I have to find a way to endure and survive life. But I don't want to just endure or survive life. Yes, like you said, I want to live life. And I never felt more alive than I did when I was holding his hand, watching the sun set or listening to a new cd. I guess what I really need is to find a way to gain some faith in tomorrow. I just can't bring myself to believe that I could be happy again. It's just so hard to wait anymore.

     
    Old 09-15-2004, 05:32 AM   #14
    eightball61
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ninispjc
    I just can't bring myself to believe that I could be happy again. It's just so hard to wait anymore.


    Are you happy when on here talking to us?

     
    Old 09-15-2004, 08:20 AM   #15
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    Cool Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hi Ninispjc,

    Whether you realize it or not, you have already made a first step towards healing: you have stated a desire to move on. You’re just not sure what that is or what that means, for you. And that’s okay.

    No-one can put a time-limit on emotional healing. You already know this, from all the time being spent on mourning this well ended relationship.

    Sometimes it’s not really so much about ‘letting go’, as it is about forgiving yourself and maybe, forgiving the person you were once so close to. I am only going by your posts here, and I am new to this forum so I am not familiar with your other possible related posts. However, my meaning here is that I am sure you are well aware that this old relationship is over for you, and for him. But just because a relationship ends, it doesn’t always mean that the feelings do. Sometimes it’s not the break-up that’s the hardest to deal with, but all the “what if” and “why” questions that keep relentlessly popping up afterwards, making it difficult to put focus on anything else.

    A person can feel crazy, out of control, lost, and become outwardly depressed with all these unanswered questions. It can feel never-ending and overwhelming. It takes up everything else. So much time spent on something that hurt so much is a constant reminder. It’s with you wherever you go, whatever you do. Before you know it, a person is “stuck” in that place, the only time they feel alive is when they remember the pain and the longing; and that is not living, as you know. You’ve been feeling this way for so long (so long) that you probably feel this is going to be it forever – you have unconsciously ‘trained’ yourself to remain in this self defeating rut.

    This isn’t about this ended relationship or even this man any more. I am hearing a few things from you in your post. You seem to maintain a false sense of security that you may be telling yourself you once had during this relationship. You are dealing with feelings of second guessing yourself and your ideals because they didn’t mesh with this man’s expectations – which impacts the way you feel about yourself (worth and self-esteem). You feel abandoned and betrayed. Your anger and angst is making you to hang on to these feelings that you keep alive 24/7 by reliving all the possible events that led to the eventual demise of this relationship.

    And for what purpose? It doesn’t really matter if you could or would have reacted or done/said things differently in this old relationship – it wouldn’t have mattered because he was what he was. You can play the same scenarios over and over again some more, as you have been doing, but it probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome.

    It doesn’t matter whether or not this man was “right” in his thinking or behaviors or not. Again, it’s not about him. What does matter is that you chose to remain (up to the end) in a relationship that clearly was unhealthy for you and not meeting your needs or your goals. Sometimes being healthy is difficult because that means that you may need to do something that changes the way things currently are. And change is scary. However, if you go back and re-read your initial post here, I am not sure what you felt was worth it in this relationship to continue to maintain it versus the way poor way you were disrespected and treated by this person. It’s important to maintain relationships (on all levels) with people who take the time to empower and support one another; to surround yourself with people who are caring and loyal. Your best interests were not taken into consideration.

    Because of the way this break-up was handled, the way that this man conducted himself post break-up (dong things he stated he was vehemently was opposed to), and now the fact that he has moved on to marry – you never really obtained the closure YOU needed to be able to push through the ‘break-up stage’. You are still living in the break-up stage, Ninispjc. And that’s so sad. I truly feel your pain.

    No-one can tell you how to find recovery. People can suggest ideas and try to help you make sense of your ongoing pain – but sometimes I know it’s not that simple. And sadly, it doesn’t matter if he was abusive, controlling, etc. or not. Because unfortunately, sometimes the heart or mind just doesn’t want to let go of the remnants – sometimes the pain is all we have left.

    All the suggestions and all the discussions and all the obsessing is not going to make a difference. The only thing that will make a difference in how you decide to LIVE, is you. It’s a difficult commitment to make. After being stuck for so long, you may not know how to self-motivate to even start to feel better. I understand.

    If you are truly desirous of moving up and out of this stuck place, you may want to think about counseling to help provide you with some extra strength and guidance to “get back to the living”. It’s so hard to know where to start or what to do sometimes, I know. Getting some external support can help you with that.

    I hear you reaching out. It’s okay to let go of this, despite your unanswered questions. Sometimes the only way TO let go, is to accept that you will never receive all the answers to those questions. It’s not giving in, it’s personal growth and progress.

    Take good care.

     
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