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    Old 02-04-2005, 10:20 AM   #1
    marcen
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    I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    I have posted a lot this past month about my situation with my boyfriend. We broke up after a big fight, and now we are "dating" again, taking a step back and taking things slowly. I went to his place last weekend to have my bday with his parents and to discuss things with him. He didn't want to talk about it, and kept saying that he didn't want to be convinced as to why he should take me back and get back into the relationship again. At first I was really upset, and then I started to get angry because he spent the first two days rubbing his new-found freedom in my face and acting like he was being nice but trying to upset me. We eventually got into an argument and I told him I was really disappointed in his behaviour, and that I could at least walk away knowing that I had truly loved him and done everything I could to make it work. I told him I didn't want to be with him the way he now is anyway. We hung out as friends the next day, but he kept saying that he didn't want to lead me on, that he didn't love me like a gf anymore, and that he didn't know if/when he would want to get back together, that there was no one else though, he just didn't want to be in a relationship. So he went out with his friends that night and partied all night and I stayed at home with his folks. The next day I was busy all day helping his dog have her pups and it was quite traumatic (I work with animals) but his dog survived. Suddenly that night he decides we will go out for dinner for my bday (which he kept putting off all weekend). I was sitting on the couch while he was getting ready and he suddenly came over and wanted me to give him a back massage. I said no, that I wasn't his gf anymore. So then he started tickling me and trying to get me to laugh and then got up to finish getting ready. I was behind him and he suddenly turned around and kissed me. We ended up going out for dinner and talking and have agreed to try to rekindle things again without any pressures about what will happen next. We slept together that night but we didn't have sex. He says he doesn't want me to think that is why he is with me, and I don't feel he deserves it anyway. We had a good day together the next day and he has been calling me more, although he keeps mentioning things he is going to do with his buddies (I think to see if I object). I am being fine when he does call but I won't call myself. He asked me last night if I was going to my graduation in 3 months. I am getting my degree, but in order to attend I would have to stay with his family for 2 weeks, and I was planning on going back home across the country right away. He used to always say that he would be there even if I didn't go, but last night I asked him if he thought I should go and he said he didn't think it was a big deal, only to go if I want to. I feel like the only reason he said that is because he doesn't want me to stay with him for those 2 weeks. I just don't understand him...one day he tells me he doesn't love me, and the next he is all affectionate again and tells me he knows how valuable I am in his life. I was afraid he is just keeping me around till I move home in April but he swears he isn't, that we will do the long distance thing (I want to move closer to him but he says he isn't ready for that). I love him so much and I am trying my hardest to stop clinging to him, but it is so difficult to be with someone when you don't know how they feel. I feel like I need that soft place to fall and he is definitely not it at the moment, although he used to be. I want us to work things out, and I think the best thing to do is to give him his time and space and freedom, and to not plan ahead. I am still scared though, because I feel like there are two of him and I am not sure which one I am with at the moment. Guys, what is he thinking????

     
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    Old 02-04-2005, 11:01 AM   #2
    Ninispjc
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Well, I'm not a guy but I think I can make a pretty good guess at what he's thinking. He's thinking it's nice, safe, familiar and convenient to have you around, but he's pretty sure you're not "the one", but isn't ready to be looking for "the one" yet. That's why even though his actions are telling you he may care, his words are quite clear. In this case, I think you should listen to his words. He doesn't want a future, doesn't want to make plans for the future, etc. etc.

    I could be wrong. But my ex played a very similar, now-I-love-you-now-I-don't game for two years. After two break ups and his taking his "I love you" back, much like your guy did, he decided he wanted to make things work with me. Then he started pulling away emotionally. Everything I did wasn't quite right. He started drawing really hard lines. He claimed to be strictly Catholic and said I was more sexual than he was comfortable with, and it tempted him too much, I didn't really want to practice natural family planning, I wanted to use some sort of birth control after marriage to plan our family, things like women working outside the home when they have kids, putting kids in day care, divorce, living together outside of wedlock, things that he just claimed to feel really passionately about and I felt hey, a woman can work and be a good mom too, day care is tricky but not always a nightmare, and sometimes even necessary, divorce, hey it happens, it's sad and hard on kids, but sometimes it's ultimately for the best. He didn't like my attitude, finally decided we weren't compatible, dumped me, then about five minutes later started banging a fresh out of court divorcee with three kids, the oldest living with the angry ex husband, the two younger in day care while she worked all day, and tied tubes. I've told this story before, but not sure if you've ever read it, sorry if I'm repeating myself. I'm just saying, it's been my experience that when it takes this long for a guy to make up his mind about how he really feels about you, chances are pretty good he's already made up his mind, just not in the direction you were hoping for. I'm not saying he doesn't care, and I'm not saying dump him now. I'm just saying when he tells you he doesnt' love you like a girlfriend anymore, he doesnt' want you moving just to be close to him, he needs his freedom, etc etc, you should listen to him and believe him.

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 11:07 AM   #3
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Hi Julia,
    I think that he is probably not as serious about you as he used to be and he is probably just waiting to see what happens. He definatly does take a clear stand about NOT being serious together with you again. Maybe he feels that you are still good friends and that he cares about you some what. Girls differ a little bit to guys. Girls usually are head over heels in love with someone or they don't love you at all. Guys have more 3 stages, either head over heels in love with you, dont love you at all or middle ground. Likes you some what, wants to keep you around "just in case". Maybe he finds someone else that he gets head over heels about and forget about you or if he gets real lonely maybe try and kindle up what he has in storage. The later is what I think is your case here. He probably wants a "convient" relationship with you, see each others every now and then and have some type of relationship and still keep you at bay, so he is free to see other girls too if need be. Just because he kisses you or gives you back rubs is no indication that he loves you. I am even sure that he would consider a "friend with benefits" relationship with you. Maybe he thinks that would be better, since you two don't seem to be able to have a close relationship since you fight and do not match 100%. He probably thinks it would be painful to be totally into you if you were fighting and arguing, but he likes the rest of you. Thats my 2 cents.

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 11:50 AM   #4
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Thanks guys...I think some of what you are saying is true. He definitely does like the convenience of our relationship, especially as it stands now. I know he doesn't want a friends with benefits situation, he has told me already that he would rather us not have sex at all then have me think that is the only reason he is with me. He is under a lot of pressure right now work-wise, and I think part of it has to do with him just not wanting to have to focus on anything else. He says he is not interested in having to do with anyone else and he definitely doesn't show any signs of that (as far as I can see). His dad says that he knows he really likes me, but that he feels like he can't offer me anything right now so he doesn't want us to get too serious (like living together) until his work situation is more secure. He is 23, 3 years younger than me, and very very into debt (over a million dollars). He works with his parents, and they have basically morgaged all of their stuff so he can have this opportunity, so right now he is very focused on making it work or they all risk losing their shirts. Still, I feel like if he really loved me he wouldn't push me away all the time, or whenever it is convenient for him. I guess I will just have to go on and focus on my own things, and hopefully he will come around on his own. There is not much I can do anymore anyway.

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 12:07 PM   #5
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Julia,
    You often hear that term "I dont have time to focus on a GF". Look at it this way. The only time that rings true would be if you were causing trouble and messing up his life, preventing him from working. I have a GF that I love very much and the last thing I would need would be for her to stay away from me.
    Being in love and having someone IS only positive when you are in trouble and makes you happy, give you emotional support and helps you focus without being down or feeling alone. So it all depends. What he is saying is that he knows that you would be trouble or be in the way and you wouldn't be any support for him. If you moved together, that would give him even more support and focus 24/7. Maybe he means that he wouldn't be able to support a girl financially on his own. Well this is not the 1950s where you would demand to sit at home all day and leech his money. I am sure you would be able to bring home some money to atleast pull your share without burding him. IF that was the case that you two had a good relationship and that he loved you in the first place. Now that is not the case here. He is probably more comfortable with having you as a part time girl friend for now.

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 12:08 PM   #6
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    To be blunt, he is making all the rules and getting exactly what HE wants. He wants the convenience of having a girlfriend when he wants one, and the freedom when he wants that instead. How nice for him? This way, when he grows tired of the relationship thing he can always tell you that "you knew this is the way things are".
    WHAT ABOUT YOU?!
    Personally? He isn't worth it and uses you when HE needs you around.
    If I were at my boyfriend's parent's house over my birthday and he left to party with his friends? I woulda been outta there so fast his head would spinning! His parent's should have kicked him the butt for leaving you there too!
    I would drop him like a bad habit. You deserve so much more,,,,

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 12:15 PM   #7
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by julia_girl
    He is 23, 3 years younger than me, and very very into debt (over a million dollars).
    Ok, now I'm shuddering to think of how a 23 year old managed to get over $1 million in debt??!!

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 02:00 PM   #8
    marcen
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    He runs a business with his parents...he wanted to start his own business along side of it, and he found a partner who has invested a lot of money into it. Also, with all the machinery etc...he is very heavily in debt, but handling it really well. In these ways. he is very mature and responsible. Sorry guys, I am just feeling so depressed and pushed aside right now. I am scared to death of leaving him for good in three months cause I love him so so much. I know things are better this week than they were last week and I should be happy, but I am just so sad for some reason.

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 02:51 PM   #9
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Julia...I know you asked for male input, but Goody just had to chime in here. Can you please tell me how things are better this week than last week here?
    From the way I see it he wanted a break....your birthday came up and you went to spend it with him & his parents....he goes out with friends leaving you with his welping dog and his parents. He tells you he doesn't love you anymore, asks you for a massage, sneaks a few kisses all the while leaving you wondering where things stand. You are being handed breadcrumbs and he's holding the loaf of bread!!!! How are things any better...they couldn't be....they're worse!!! One thing i missed in the entire post of yours was how exactly he celebrated your birthday Were there presents, cake, or anything that made you feel special??? The thing is he's just dragging out the inevitable....you are just a little insurance for when things don't go his way. You deserve better than this....move on and hold that head up high...Goody

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 03:16 PM   #10
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Sometimes it's better to move on to a more healthy relationship. Sorry for your hurt.

     
    Old 02-04-2005, 03:26 PM   #11
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Hi Goody,
    thanks for chiming in
    I know you are right, I think I just don't want to accept it. He used to make me feel really special. Last Christmas, he made a really big deal of things. It was wonderful. Then on my bday last year he was too busy, but his parents celebrated it with us later. Valentines was nice too, although I sort of felt like he did everything last minute. I got kind of upset with him and I regret that now. On our one year anniversary, I was quite upset because he did show up to go out with me but he had no plans. He wanted me to decide where to go/what to do. I was hoping he would have something nice planned and we ended up having an argument. He always says that nothing is ever good enough for me, and looking back, I wish I hadn't gotten upset and just been happy to be with him, because I understand how busy he is. I am generally really good about fitting into his life/plans because of his situation, but sometimes I wish he would put just a tad more thought into me. At Christmas this year he was really inconsiderate and didn't do anything for me or ever tell me he wasn't going to be with me. New Years he took me along with his friends. And no, he didn't really do anything for my bday this year apart from the dinner out. He says he will take me out for valentines. Part of me feels like I deserve more and part of me looks back and thinks maybe I have been selfish and not realized how busy he is and should have just been thankful. Plus he is a guy and not the most romantic one. He has done a lot of other things for me over the last two years...he has helped me with my rent (kind of a sticky subject because I never wanted his "help," we rented a place together that I could not afford alone and then he decided it was too inconvenient to have to commute that often so he stopped coming but he kept paying his rent, now he says he only did it so I would move out of the yucky place I was living in and had no plans to stay here), he has bought me nice things, given me his bike to ride, etc. etc. I feel badly because I feel like maybe I never appreciated those things as much as I should have. I have done a lot for him in return, as well. I guess all I have ever wanted is his companionship really, and that I feel like he has never really made a priority. He has given me some time, but work (of course), the gym, sports and his friends always come first (at least I feel). Now I just don't know how to feel. He told me during our fight that I have always had so many dreams for us, but that none of his dreams over the last 2 years have ever included me, even though we have had our moments. Yesterday he says that he only said that because he never dreams of anything but work (which is true). I think there is a part of him that loves me, but there is also a part of him that is just too young and selfish and is terrified of commitment. I just wish he realized how much I hurt sometimes and how scared I am of leaving him.

     
    Old 02-05-2005, 08:29 AM   #12
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by julia_girl
    . He told me during our fight that I have always had so many dreams for us, but that none of his dreams over the last 2 years have ever included me, even though we have had our moments. Yesterday he says that he only said that because he never dreams of anything but work (which is true).
    Julia....Why should you be the only one dreaming about the one you enjoy being part of your life????? Everything is so onesided in this relationship. Can't you see that you deserve somebody that includes you in their dreams as well??? Julia....don't wait the 3 months to face the same facts that this guy is just not for you....walk away now and start looking for what you truly deserve. To go along with his plan will only make you feel used and leave you with very little dignity. Take what little you have now and use it to find a guy who will give you just as much in a relationship as you give. You deserve to be happy and to find the guy who will bring you this happiness. The guy you are with is not the one who will do this. Cut things with him now and move on, you know there is no happy ending with him......Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 02-05-2005 at 08:31 AM.

     
    Old 02-05-2005, 12:35 PM   #13
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Aaaah, little tiger, the voice of reason. If you are not getting what you need out of a relationship, why would you assume that SOMEDAY you will??? Wowee (where are you??) started a wonderful thread about this topic. It baffles me--you arent getting what you need, have found somebody who isnt the kind of partner you were hoping for, yet still love him and want to be with him. I dont know. Im sure your response to my post will be tons of little things he did that insinuate he really does care (if he did care you wouldnt really have to keep convincing yourself of this) and the thing you dont understand is you just need to look at the big picture here. Those of us who have been there before know for a fact--if you arent getting what you need now, you wont get it--ever!!!

    Save yourself some grief and find some guy who worships you. They are out there and believe me, when someone really loves you and makes you their top priority, you will wonder why you wasted time on a guy who cant give you that. Ive been down both roads, and Im glad I picked someone who could offer me EVERYTHING I needed, and ditched the guy who couldnt (after years of trying to change him). and, by the way, that guy who couldnt, he told me he loved me, wanted to marry me, and sometimes he could be really great. But I spent most of my time with him frustrated and angry and confused. Looking back, I view time spent with him as a learning experience, but ultimately a huge waste. Good luck!

     
    Old 02-05-2005, 04:42 PM   #14
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillaryb
    Aaaah, little tiger, the voice of reason. If you are not getting what you need out of a relationship, why would you assume that SOMEDAY you will??? Wowee (where are you??) started a wonderful thread about this topic. It baffles me--you arent getting what you need, have found somebody who isnt the kind of partner you were hoping for, yet still love him and want to be with him. I dont know. Im sure your response to my post will be tons of little things he did that insinuate he really does care (if he did care you wouldnt really have to keep convincing yourself of this) and the thing you dont understand is you just need to look at the big picture here. Those of us who have been there before know for a fact--if you arent getting what you need now, you wont get it--ever!!!

    Save yourself some grief and find some guy who worships you. They are out there and believe me, when someone really loves you and makes you their top priority, you will wonder why you wasted time on a guy who cant give you that. Ive been down both roads, and Im glad I picked someone who could offer me EVERYTHING I needed, and ditched the guy who couldnt (after years of trying to change him). and, by the way, that guy who couldnt, he told me he loved me, wanted to marry me, and sometimes he could be really great. But I spent most of my time with him frustrated and angry and confused. Looking back, I view time spent with him as a learning experience, but ultimately a huge waste. Good luck!
    Great post Hillary!! I totally agree--all of the great women here deserve a guy who loves and sacrifices for her as much as she does for him. You are so right that if a relationship isn't what you want and need, it's a waste of time to hope that it will change rather than moving on to someone who will treat you wonderfully. You should NEVER have to read into what a guy does to prove that he loves and cherishes you--it should be plainly obvious each and every day, in all his actions and words. If you have any doubts about his feelings and commitment or feel that you are doing more than your share in the relationship, it's not the right relationship for you in the long term. Hillary is so right that we all deserve partners who worship us and work hard to make sure we never have to question their devotion. So many people here say, "but I'm sure he loves me! This is the best relationship I've ever had!" They don't understand that if guy isn't treating you like his queen, like the most important and precious thing in his life, like the best thing that ever happened to you CONSISTENTLY, he's not good enough for you. So many women make excuses, look only for the good in their men, try hard to make things better, feel that he would be more loving and respectful if SHE improves herself, when the real problem is that these guys just aren't that into them (to borrow from the book). Any man can say the right things and buy the right things to make a woman feel loved and well-treated--this doesn't prove anything, as many women who have been burned by this can attest. A man's actions, throughout each and every day, are the clues that really show whether or not he loves a woman the way a soulmate and husband loves his wife. We deserve nothing less, and Hillary is totally right that we as women should never settle for a guy who gives us anything less than EVERYTHING we need and want from his love and companionship.

     
    Old 02-06-2005, 07:34 PM   #15
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    Re: I don't understand him...(some male opinions would help too please!)

    Hi Hillaryb and Snails,
    I found both of your posts interesting. I have never had a boyfriend before this one, and, like any girl, I would like it if he showered me with gifts and worshipped the ground that I walk on once in awhile too. More than anything, though, I guess what I really want from him is to make me certain that he really does love me, even if he doesn't do all the little things that some guys might. My sister's husband is great that way, he spoils her like mad and has never stopped. My dad is the opposite. He rarely ever buys my mum anything or takes her out on a date or anything like that. She never seemed too bothered by it, even though I know she would have enjoyed it. I think my bf is a lot like my dad. My dad gets mad when he hears about things he has done (or not done!) but my dad hasn't really done many of those things himself (he says it is different because I am his little girl lol). Despite the fact that he is definitely not romantic, my dad does love my mum very much. He worked really hard to support his family, has always been faithful, and has been the greatest dad. He and my mum have a good relationship overall, even if they argue now and then. I know that if I do end up with my bf, our life will be similar to my parents. I guess all the gifts and romance are not that important to me as long as I know I can count on him just to be there for me, even if they would be a nice touch now and then. He came here last night and took me out for dessert and breakfast this morning. I broke one of our rules (no talking about the future) by bringing up the fact that I want to move in with him in the Fall for a few months in between going back to university. He says he isn't ready/doesn't want to be pushed. I know I probably won't end up coming back here once I go back to my home, at least for a while. Maybe once I am far away things will seem a lot clearer. Maybe once I am back with my own family I will feel differently, but I still think I will want to be with him. I told him that I need him to tell me that he loves me once in awhile. He says he doesn't say it because it makes him feel so commited, but that it isn't because he doesn't love me. Not sure that makes sense...his family never really says it either. I am so used to being openly affectionate with my family that I started doing it with his too, and now his mum and even his dad tell me they love me quite often. They don't say it to each other much though as far as I can see. Maybe that has something to do with it. Anyway, we are getting along well at the moment and I am taking (I believe it was) HearttoHeart's advice. I am not calling him at all, but when he calls or comes over I am being a doll Maybe I will meet a guy oneday who showers me with affection and I will love it, or maybe I will end up married to my dad lol. I guess only time will tell.
    Thanks

     
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