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heartlandguy 03-06-2005 07:32 PM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
Mrs. H. read your letter and I think she responded much like Tom. :D I asked what she thought of it and it took a while before she could speak in complete sentences; [B][I]completely dizzy[/I][/B] seems like a good way to describe her condition. :D :D :D I don't think she ever had a reason to distrust you or me so, ultimately, she sees this as a very nice thank you letter and she is glad that I helped you two. If my continued posting leads to a successful career for me, she will be very happy. :angel:

goody2shuz 03-06-2005 07:42 PM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
Sounds fine to me, Heartland, in terms of accuracy ;) Please apologize to the Mrs. for any "dizizness" incurred by Goody. I do have that effect on people :dizzy:....Goody

goody2shuz 03-07-2005 04:49 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=StormGirl]And I would agree with them wholeheartedly Goody. Sometimes I wonder if you aren't an angel in disguise sent here to help us all in our times of need... :angel:[/QUOTE]

Sorry, Stormgirl...I must have overlooked your wonderful compliment and would like to thank you for it, however, the quote you responded to was referring to my best friend.....I guess it could pertain to me as well in the sense that it is going to take a couple of saints to get the job done here. :angel: Anybody else up for the job??? Again thanks for your kind words.....it makes what I do here so worthwhile.....Goody :wave:

heartlandguy 03-07-2005 06:25 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=goody2shuz]I will try not to get ahead of you, and will wait for your signal or for His telling me when the time is right to share my "insights" pertaining to today's mass.[/QUOTE]Excellent insight there! :)

I will post for GF shortly, please make sure (email or phone) that she is aware of it.

heartlandguy 03-07-2005 06:35 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
Hi Goody’s Friend,

Until you direct me otherwise, I will call you [b]GF[/b]. You provided a wonderful, insightful post for which I am very grateful. You used a “straw man” writing style like I frequently use and that’s a terrific way to start the ball rolling. Since I left so many holes in my background post, you were forced to make many assumptions about my wife’s and my situation. Most of your assumptions were excellent. I need to provide you supplemental info so you will have a better picture of my situation. (When I compare our situation to yours, I think the causes are quite different but the effect on the wives is similar.) I will get back to that as soon as I can; this post is my straw man for your situation. I was determined to come up with some type of solution and see how you react to it. I hope your husband and you find the thought process and methods acceptable; I certainly don’t want to offend anyone and am looking for your guidance to steer me away from troubled waters... spiritual or marital :angel:


GF, your husband sounds like a wonderful man. I think he really wants to do God’s will. Unfortunately, he has convinced himself that scripture says that his ministry to God absolves him from providing for his own family’s financial needs because he expects God to provide for them. You, on the other hand, believe that scripture says that his duty is to first provide for his family before carrying out his ministry to God.

It is hardly unique to find people using the bible to support opposing positions. How is that possible? Fundamentally, instead of using the bible as tool for understanding the will of God, people use the bible as a tool for justifying their own will. By distorting the context of a biblical passage, a clever person can defend almost any position. So how can one discern God’s will from his or her own? I believe by using the concept of church as defined by “For where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I in the midst of them”. (Matthew 18:20)

What first concerned me about this verse was if your husband has a friend of like mind, the two could declare that God inspired their point of view and feel further justified. I suspected that the answer lies in the phrase “gathered in My name” so with an Internet search I found a sermon on the verse that equated “gathered in My name” with “be open to obey His Word”. (Since that agrees with my beliefs, I easily accepted it. :) ) Applying that definition, people who use scripture to justify their own will are, by definition, not open to obeying His word so they can’t legitimately claim that they know God’s will. As a practical matter then, church can be defined as where two or more gather to openly obey His word so God will reveal His will.

If your husband and you accept this concept of church, I suggest a two-step process for your husband to discover God’s will. First, gather a small group of trusted friends (say, 4-8) that both of you agree are open to the word of God. After a prayer for His guidance, discuss your husband’s beliefs on how to provide for his family and whether it seems to match God’s will for your husband. To a skeptic, this exercise will prove nothing but to a believer… what better way is there to seek His will?

Second, assuming the majority of the group concludes that His will differs with your husband’s perspective, your husband must decide how to seek God’s guidance in providing for your family and conducting his ministry to Him. I suggest attending Sunday services with a specific question in mind and both of you listening for His answer in the scripture readings and the sermon. Afterwards, you two should discuss the messages you heard and seek consensus. Do this weekly until all of your questions have been answered. The best questions typically offer two alternatives. Maybe the first question should be something basic like “Will providing for my family according to God’s will mean the end of my ministry to Him?” I don’t think your husband will be disappointed with the answers he receives… :angel:

The main reasons for the two-step method are speed and diversity. Step one is fast and is intended to awaken in your husband the need for a change of perspective while not making the group judge and jury for change. Step two will be much slower but should provide sufficient time for your husband to assimilate the changes in his work practices and belief systems.

My thoughts and prayers to your husband and you, GF :wave: -Heartland

goody2shuz 03-07-2005 06:49 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
Heartland..spoke to MBF this am. She has clinic until 1:30 CST....I will make sure she "sees" your post. I think it is best for her to make comment on it before I do. That way her response will remain unbiased or influenced by any thing I may have to say..although you will "see" that her and I view things quite similarly. May be intimidating for you :D :D Two women on a yellow brick road....yes, Lion, you are going to need courage ;)

You are in my thoughts as always, my friend....on this journey until the we are somewhere over the rainbow.....Dorothy :wave:

heartlandguy 03-07-2005 07:07 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
Yes, Dorothy, I must be the Lion. (It's quite a stretch for a Libra to act like a Leo ;)) Like the cowardly lion who was too scared to help himself, I hope that by focusing on Dorothy and my other friends, I will forget my fears and exhibit moments of bravery when needed.

[QUOTE=goody2shuz]you will "see" that her and I view things quite similarly.[/QUOTE]I take this as a positive sign for my post. I think you would see it as a reasonable starting point for discussion... but she doesn't trust me yet so I'm a bit nervous discussing religious views with a stranger. (There's no emoticon for stained pants. :confused: )

goody2shuz 03-07-2005 07:18 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=heartlandguy]I take this as a positive sign for my post. I think you would see it as a reasonable starting point for discussion... but she doesn't trust me yet so I'm a bit nervous discussing religious views with a stranger. (There's no emoticon for stained pants. :confused: )[/QUOTE]
My friend has no problem discussing her religious convictions with others....as you must have gathered from her first post. Sometimes I get nervous here discussing mine which are so much mellower, but my spirituallity is a big part of my life not in the sense of forcing the issue with others...in fact I don't even discuss it as openly with my real friends (other than you and MBF) I wonder if it is that way with you too...Goody ;)

heartlandguy 03-07-2005 07:35 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=goody2shuz]my spirituallity is a big part of my life not in the sense of forcing the issue with others...in fact I don't even discuss it as openly with my real friends (other than you and MBF) I wonder if it is that way with you too.[/QUOTE]I'm just like you here. :) :) :) (almost forgot ;))

I rarely discuss "life issues" with my real friends and acquaintances; everyone seems so busy with their own burdens. It's not surprising that it comes up here much more often because this board is all about resolving issues.

goody2shuz 03-07-2005 07:53 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=heartlandguy]I'm just like you here. :) :) :) (almost forgot ;))

I rarely discuss "life issues" with my real friends and acquaintances; everyone seems so busy with their own burdens. It's not surprising that it comes up here much more often because this board is all about resolving issues.[/QUOTE]


Why is that, I wonder??? I mean is it because we fear that they will "see" us differently. Actually I am getting better in terms of taking the risk of bearing my soul...but with the competition and all, it's almost like our marriages and happiness are in competition in the real world. But lately I am standing more by my convictions....expressing my views and beliefs a little bit more. Since K's drinking I have expressed my disinterest in having alcohol as the center of our get togethers "Children learn what they live" I mean, none of us are extrememely heavy drinkers but we have our share of wine & cosmos. But recently I spoke up with the fab four and said we need to go out if we're gonna have a drink and not make it a presidence for our get togethers.

It's funny...when I went away with just the women we were at lunch picking pet names for one another after knowing each other for so long. Everyone got interesting ones like "Frankie" from the show Sisters,"Darla" from the Little Rascals, and when it came to me I got "Mary" and you can guess where that came from ;) That's how well we know each other :D

And I guess it's also that we know that whatever we choose to disclose is open season as far as getting around to the others :eek: So I guess that has alot to do with things too. But I think it is important to take risks in the real world as we do here....you're going to have to learn to do that my friend, and I am determined to help you ;) ...Goody

heartlandguy 03-07-2005 08:33 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=goody2shuz]when it came to me I got "Mary"[/QUOTE]I'm shocked that Tigger didn't come up!!! :eek:

Concerning life issues, I act differently in the real world, probably shields up. Door to door missionaries have a tough job and I’m one of the reasons. When they approach the front door, I’ll meet them at the door if I see them coming. I smile and tell them I had a Mormon uncle who did missionary work and I respect their efforts but I’m a regularly practicing Catholic and I’m strongly rooted in my convictions. Only a few can’t sense my steadfastness so usually we cordially wish each other well and goodbye. The foolishly-persistent few get a steely-eyed quiet that very effectively gets the point across.

My point (if I had one in my rant :rolleyes: ) is that I deeply respect other people’s religious convictions so I hate to spout off about mine unless asked. No friend of mine is so foolish. :) So hopefully I “preach” by example. Since my personality can be extreme at times, I was shocked (and honored) a number of years ago when a friend asked me to be his sponsor when he converted to Catholicism. A first I thought I must have done a better job of preaching by example than I thought. Then I realized he must have selected me because I could never throw the first stone… I’ve never had the courage to ask him. :p

goody2shuz 03-07-2005 08:55 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=heartlandguy]I'm shocked that Tigger didn't come up!!! :eek:[/QUOTE] Hehehehehehehehe :bouncing: Actually, in the real world I tend to be the quieter one and very carefree...love to read books and watch the swans at our summerhouse and how they rear their young. I look at it's symbolic nature to us humans who follow their ways in tryng to be monogamous, having particular daily rituals, sharing in the rearing of their brood, and when the job is done throwing them out into the world only to start all over again ;) I am like a sponge absorbing life so that when the time comes that I can share my experiences here and in the real world.

[B]Concerning life issues, I act differently in the real world, probably shields up.[/B] I expect that we are going to have to work BIG time in our efforts of getting those shields down ;)

[B] Door to door missionaries have a tough job and I’m one of the reasons. When they approach the front door, I’ll meet them at the door if I see them coming. I smile and tell them I had a Mormon uncle who did missionary work and I respect their efforts but I’m a regularly practicing Catholic and I’m strongly rooted in my convictions. Only a few can’t sense my steadfastness so usually we cordially wish each other well and goodbye. The foolishly-persistent few get a steely-eyed quiet that very effectively gets the point across.[/B] I'm the same exact way...don't want to hurt their feelings but don't want to waste my time either :D

[QUOTE=heartland]My point (if I had one in my rant :rolleyes: ) is that I deeply respect other people’s religious convictions so I hate to spout off about mine unless asked. No friend of mine is so foolish. :) So hopefully I “preach” by example. Since my personality can be extreme at times, I was shocked (and honored) a number of years ago when a friend asked me to be his sponsor when he converted to Catholicism. A first I thought I must have done a better job of preaching by example than I thought. Then I realized he must have selected me because I could never throw the first stone… I’ve never had the courage to ask him. :p[/QUOTE]Perhaps we should put you on the assignment of finding out as your first task here. What do you think??? Can you find a chance to ask him???

Well..I've gotta plan my youth group lesson for this afternoon. Wanna take the next hour or so to do it...perhaps I will find something inspiring to share here too. I will make myself available for 1:30 to assist you and GF in anyway I can....but I think it may be a matter of Goody leaving you in each others hands as much as possible unless I see reason to interject. If you need my viewpoint at anytime just ask......later Lion....Dorothy(of all my pet names that's the one I like the best ;) )

UPDATE: If you are up to date with your posts please let me know because my lesson plan may be "insightful'' here as well ;)

reddoorblack 03-07-2005 10:58 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=goody2shuz]Door to door missionaries have a tough job and I’m one of the reasons. When they approach the front door, I’ll meet them at the door if I see them coming. I smile and tell them I had a Mormon uncle who did missionary work and I respect their efforts but I’m a regularly practicing Catholic and I’m strongly rooted in my convictions.[/QUOTE]

Goody, that's so funny because that's exactly what I do. I'm also Catholic and as soon as I mention that they usually don't even want to talk anymore.

goody2shuz 03-07-2005 11:08 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
[QUOTE=reddoorblack]Goody, that's so funny because that's exactly what I do. I'm also Catholic and as soon as I mention that they usually don't even want to talk anymore.[/QUOTE]

Reddoor...the quote you quoted is actually Heartland's and we don't wanna go misquoting with his anal-retentiveness ;) I was completely agreeing with him and as a matter of fact I DO THE SAME AS YOU SAYING I AM A CATHOLIC CATECHIST AND THEY ACTUALLY RUN AWAY :eek:

Just wanted to clear up the quote for the record ;) .....Goody :wave:

Heartland....just spoke with GF...she is swamped at work and has read your post...she will be responding as soon as she can but it may take some time to coordinate our efforts. Meanwhile....I am following this post with two more...the first is your assignment and the second is a post of my "insights" from over the weekend. I discussed this with GF and she agrees tht this is the time to do so...it will give you something to "think about" until her post arrives. We both want you to put on your suit of "courage" in order to read it and realize that it is being delivered with the same "fortitude". Open your Heart, my lion, and be ready to be "healed"....Goody :angel:

goody2shuz 03-07-2005 11:24 AM

Re: What's a Friend to Do?
 
Heartland ~ My lesson today with my Youth group has to do with “The Holy Spirit” and our Spirituality. My first assignment will be for each of the kids to lists six one-word Christian qualities. They will also have to picture that it is illegal to be a Christian…and as a prosecutor think of the evidence they need to present in order to prove that you were a Christian.

I will be asking them to also journal which of the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit that they need to focus on most in their lives (wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, Fear of God, or piety) and what specifically they are going to do to make this happen.

My final assignment is for then to take the original 6 one-word Christian qualities and see which one’s they see themselves as possessing. And to think of someone who demonstrates one or more of these qualities in his/her life by the way they live their lives.

I thought that I might recruit you as my newest student and see what you may come up with in completing these tasks. ;) Are you up to Goody’s challenge????

What I found to be quite interesting is that our lesson defines spirituality as “that which is reflected in how we relate to others and how we live our lives and that it is always concerned with relationships, both our relationship to others and our relationship to creation.” Thought you would find that to be interesting as well, my spiritual friend......Dorothy :angel:


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