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    Old 03-08-2005, 10:21 AM   #181
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    PS: Please don’t think that I don’t realize that I am still blind about many things yet. Just realize that as we look at each other we can see each other’s blind spots better than we can see our own. I still need lots of your help and “in-sights”, my friend, because my eyes can’t see in that direction.
    Heartland......Goody & Dorothy aren't able to see one inch in front of them today....it may be the emotion "blinding" the way that I feel I must go and also the fear of the manner in which I may have to proceed on this journey which was so clearly stated in K.'s essay. I never saw myself as anybody's hero or taking on the attributes of being one....perhaps one of my weaknesses???? I guess how I would best describe it is that in pointing out your "blind spots" I may indeed hurt you.....something I am at times troubled with when it comes to friendships. You once asked me...."Goody, if I try to relate to you by referencing your fiancé, I’m sure I’ll bring up painful memories for you. If you don’t trust that I am trying to communicate my feelings in the best way I know how, you may think I am angry with you and am lashing out. I’d rather say nothing than make you feel that way. Do you understand what I’m saying? Do you want me to continue?" I guess I need to ask the same of you at this time......


    I just wanted to let you know that I am here and need to take a little time before responding....in order to be certain that it is delivered at the right time and after clear thought. Please have faith that whatever comes from me is from the heart and with your best interests in "sight". For some reason....I seem disconnected at the moment, something I have never felt before but I know it stems from fear...something I need to face in order to help you. Please be patient...it'll most probably will be shortlived.

    PS...MBF has relayed to me and I concur, that having knowledge of specific timeframes of your last job that you held that you left and the OSEC are important in our understanding of your work history and in helping you out here.

    Still on the road....is there still a rainbow in sight????.......Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-08-2005 at 10:49 AM.

     
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    Old 03-08-2005, 11:36 AM   #182
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Okay…Heartland….the fog is lifting a little and Dorothy is back asking her dear and trusting friend, the Lion, to get back on the yellow brick road. (I can swear some people that don’t know us as well as we know each other may mistaken us as a pair of schizophrenics, but we know better, don’t we??)

    As you can see…..I’m asking you to trust me with your fears enough to go forward, so in order to proceed I really need for you to tell me that you do. Can you do that for me??? I want you to see that my main goal is to getting you back home with the courage you need. And now that pointy-toed shoes have entered the picture I feel that there is no dilly dallying time….we need to proceed at a “jogging” pace and no longer take time to smell the flowers or talk to the cute little munchkins…perhaps there’ll be time to sing a song or two depending on how many flying monkeys and wicked witches are thrown into the scene….but all in all we’ve gotta get you home soon and I need your full cooperation in order to do that. Do you understand????

    I have looked back upon my thread and seen that Dorothy’ success was due to many factors. She was given friends to travel with her and also she fully trusted these friends enough to allow them to lead the way and to tell them when she was scared or hurt or bothered by something so that she could remove any obstacles that stood in their way……her main goal always being to get back home. On my thread I listened to what you saw that I couldn’t see…and in order to do so I had to completely trust that you had my best interests at hand. I basically placed my marriage in your hands and trusted you enough with it that you had it’s fate in your hands as well. Not an easy thing for me to do…but yet I did.

    Yesterday in my Youth Group, one of the exercises (which I failed to mention) that I think is a wonderful example of just how much I trusted you, was when the kids were paired up and one was blindfolded (thus rendering them blind) and the other was to lead them around the house for 5 minutes. What we learned together as a class is very much what you and I have learned here…that the first minute was very scary. We’re so use to being in contol of our senses that it is difficult to allow somebody else to guide us and do the “seeing” for us. But as time went on to the 5 minutes we were able to completely trust the other person to guide us safely to our destination. I need to know if you, my lion, are able to do this before we continue on our journey together. I will wait for your response before going any further…..Dorothy

    PS….Isn’t it “funny” how you just appeared when I was just about to post this…..signs, it's all about signs Yesterday, Dorothy couldn't see the signs and ended up in the forest for the night

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-08-2005 at 12:11 PM. Reason: to add some smilies

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 12:16 PM   #183
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Goody, post #182 started by quoting the postscript from my previous post. That postscript describes everyone’s need for “church”. We cannot continually discover the Lord’s will or our weakness without the help of others.

    I sense that you must have been trying to explain some of my weaknesses to me already in a way too gentle to get through my thick head. While I sense that I’m not going to like what you have to say, I realize that probably everyone but me knows it already. Being a dear friend, you are willing to say what no one else will so I can understand my problem and do something about it. Thank you, Goody, for putting our friendship above the pain it is causing you. Say what is on your mind for I trust you.

    Goody, I trust you fully. Please remember that on your marriage thread, you could tell me everything I needed to know without revealing enough information to identify yourself to friends, neighbors and the like. A business situation is very different from a romantic situation. Romantic data is usually unavailable to the public while business data is usually widely published and sometimes advertised. Please understand that I’m trying to protect my wife’s identity, too, like you have done with K. At some point, the risks of identification to say, future employers, may cause more harm than the answers will help. My delay in posting is due to the great stress I feel while deciding what data is safe to publish…

    I assume you want dates to confirm your assumptions. The best I can do is the following… My OSEC ended, for all practical purposes, two years ago. I left my previous employer at least five years ago.

    Last edited by heartlandguy; 03-08-2005 at 12:20 PM.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 12:55 PM   #184
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Heartland~

    The spiritual friendship that we share allows me to be confident that you trust me enough to guide your way and gives me the confidence to face the fears ahead in our travels. Remember K.’s essay that many times we need the courage to speak out courageously at the risk of rejection. That is my biggest fear here and I will try to overcome it every step of the way.

    Heartland….I sense that this thread may be more of a problem than a help for you but it doesn’t have to be that way if you will open your heart to hearing what I need to share with you. When I wrote the letter to Mrs. H and read it over with MBF asking for her input she said it was beautiful but that Mrs. H may be angered by it. At first I couldn't understand this until MBF explained that it was possible especially if she was feeling the way that MBF was, which MBF was pretty certain she was. Although I didn’t understand why, MBF shared with me how her husband to others in the world, seems like the perfect husband and provider by all the volunteer work and jobs he does but never seem to make ends meet. The salaries are never discussed and all appears well to the world and others. And it angers her that everybody else sees him that way and that she cannot. They don’t know the truth and to others he is a hero and perfect Christian ~ somebody they look up to. And yet things are not as they seem….they are blind to the truth of the matter that she so painfully shared with us here. Getting back to the letter…Mrs. H may resent that I see you in this light as well, that you did a wonderful job here as you always do but may not necessarily be doing on the homefront. (OUCH…..it hurts me to say it perhaps even more than it may be for you to hear it.) You shared with me about her feelings at a caldera and the pointy-shoes coming out…I sense it is somewhat related to what I just shared with you. You see, Heartland, I am a woman (as if you haven’t already noticed) and women have a strong bond to protecting each others feelings. You are a wonderful person and I will always see you in the same light but I always want Mrs. H to see you in that light too. With the way things are….I don’t think she does and we need to prevent what has transpired with MBF from happening to you. And so….you cannot save the world, Heartland, you must save yourself….and it may mean focusing on Mrs. H for the most part and coming here only when it doesn’t take away from her in any sense. You have been coming here for confidence and we need to get you back in the real world with the same confidence. Look at todays horoscope on Nini’s thread….everything points to what I am saying….the signs, my friend, we have to read the signs.

    I know you want me to clarify what I am saying to you and it is that there is still work to be done but I need for you to assure me that the time you spend on this thread or on this board in all will not take away in anyway from Mrs. H. You can tell me specifically what times that you can be here and I will try to be there for you taking the same advice of not allowing this to interfere with my family as well. Remember, our families are precious to us and should come first.

    I will respond to your latest post after posting this…..there is lots more but I need to do it in baby doses because I need to gauge your responses before I go on so as not having you running into the forest on Dorothy.

    Please let me know that you clearly understand what I am saying…Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-08-2005 at 01:21 PM.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 02:14 PM   #185
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Goody, post #182 started by quoting the postscript from my previous post. That postscript describes everyone’s need for “church”. We cannot continually discover the Lord’s will or our weakness without the help of others.
    I agree...that whenever two or more are gathered in His name....

    Please remember that on your marriage thread, you could tell me everything I needed to know without revealing enough information to identify yourself to friends, neighbors and the like. A business situation is very different from a romantic situation. Romantic data is usually unavailable to the public while business data is usually widely published and sometimes advertised. Please understand that I’m trying to protect my wife’s identity, too, like you have done with K. At some point, the risks of identification to say, future employers, may cause more harm than the answers will help. My delay in posting is due to the great stress I feel while deciding what data is safe to publish… please.....Heartland, know that I do not want you to disclose anything here that would do this or effect your future employment. That is certainly not necessary to what needs to be done. The amount of time you were unemployed and then self employed is only what I think is necessary.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartland
    I assume you want dates to confirm your assumptions. The best I can do is the following… My OSEC ended, for all practical purposes, two years ago. I left my previous employer at least five years ago.
    That's pretty much what me & GF needed.....thanks

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 02:48 PM   #186
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Goody, I agree completely with your next to last post (#185), except for how GBF perceives Mrs. H. You are 100% accurate, along with Mrs. H, that I spent too much time here. Mrs. H is quite clear and right in saying that I don’t get enough done on the home front and in the office. Also, the little I do get done is finished at the last possible moment.

    Mrs. H puts on her hard-tipped, pointed-toed shoes only when she perceives that I’m making no discernible daily progress. She sees my time here much like playing a game on the computer. However, your letter to her caused her to say that she was happy your marriage was saved and that my time was well spent back then. She is more tolerant of me than I would be of her under the same circumstances. She is a saint and she deserves better than she gets from me. She seems so strong that, deep down, I must feel that others need my help more now than she does. (Maybe GBF’s husband is like me in this way. ) I know that is wrong but as I’ve said before, I’m addicted… and I really do need to change. Since declaring that I was “leaving”, I have probably spent more time here than before. A majority of that time is spent on this thread in the hope that I discover how He wills me to change. Meanwhile, my minimal progress bothers Mrs. H.

    You are wise in suggesting that I should spend less time here each day. Remember that we see each other as moody or emotional when the posting interval feels different. How do you suggest that we slow the pace without confusing each other? Being friends, I think we try too hard to reply quickly to each other and that is creating pressure on both of us. What do you think about changing our typical reply pace from “prompt” to “comfortable and casual”? For example, I may not post on this thread until tomorrow morning.

    With less time for the road and my friends -Heartland


    PS: Per you last post, I believe you have all the info you need for now... and I have regained the status of "Lion on the road". "Lion on the road" sounds like roadkill.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 03:48 PM   #187
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    I know that is wrong but as I’ve said before, I’m addicted… and I really do need to change. Since declaring that I was “leaving”, I have probably spent more time here than before. A majority of that time is spent on this thread in the hope that I discover how He wills me to change. Meanwhile, my minimal progress bothers Mrs. H.

    Heartland....I need for you to totally give me your trust right now.....when you say that you are "addicted" is it in the real sense, as if you need or have to be here and have minimal control over it???? I really need you to answer honestly.....no beating around the bush....it's important with no metaphors just a simple yes or no will do. In order to help you I need a clear answer ASAP.....Dorothy...courage my Lion

    PS....Just Y or N

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-08-2005 at 04:07 PM.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 04:20 PM   #188
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Yes, I truly believe I’m addicted to the Relationship Board. If my mind wanders just a bit while I’m in my office, I instinctively reach for the mouse and click refresh to update the board. If I’m out of my office but in the house and the computer is on, I have to check the board every hour or two. If I resist these urges for long, I feel tense and my breathing pattern changes. I assume that is an addiction.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 04:33 PM   #189
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Thanks for being honest enough, Heartland, I know that was a hard thing for you to post. But admitting it in front of your friends as clearly as you have is a big step. I am going to help you out in the way that K. describes in her essay....the signs are clear, my friend and have been for a long time. Like any addiction there is a process to getting sobered up. I am going to try to help you the best that I can but beware.....there will be no coddling Like many people who are addicted whether it be to drugs, alcohol, porn etc.....it is all the same in terms of treatment. You have taken the first step by admitting the problem now you must be open to help. Will you trust me to help you???? In your next post please answer that question and let me know the next time you will be available to respond to any further posts by me....if you are minimally available today I will hold off on further posting until tomorrow. Please answer my question and let me know your availability....Goody

    PS....You are my courageous Lion afterall

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-08-2005 at 04:35 PM.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 04:45 PM   #190
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Of course I trust you Goody. Let's hold off till morning, please.

    PS: Can I learn to post in moderation without relapsing?

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 05:14 PM   #191
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Of course I trust you Goody. Let's hold off till morning, please.

    PS: Can I learn to post in moderation without relapsing?
    Heartland.....We will hold off until the morning. I already have a plan that I need to put in action (it will take sometime for me to type it up so tomorrow is perfect) You said you trust me and that is what is most important.

    Now...one more thing.....GF has sent me another post for you which is quite straightforward and may be upsetting to you because it is to the point. I can send it now or hold off until tomorrow. I just need for you to promise that no matter what, that you will remain brave and trust me. You need not post anymore and I will not send GF's post until you give the ok......Goody

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 05:32 PM   #192
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Please send her post tonight. I like to mull things overnight before responding. It's less pressure for me.

    Nothing you have posted for either GBF or you has stressed me. I promise that her post will not effect my trust in you or my bravery. My stress last weekend was due to me reopening "old wounds" related to your posts and talking about them with my wife. Most of my problems in life are due to me being a chronic procrastinator.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 05:41 PM   #193
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Please send her post tonight. I like to mull things overnight before responding. It's less pressure for me.

    Nothing you have posted for either GBF or you has stressed me. I promise that her post will not effect my trust in you or my bravery. My stress last weekend was due to me reopening "old wounds" related to your posts and talking about them with my wife. Most of my problems in life are due to me being a chronic procrastinator.
    Okay, my brave lion, I am here off and on tonite....I appreciate the deep trust we have for one another. If you need me I am here....however, I do not want you on the computer tonite if Mrs. H is home. Your horoscope is sign enough......Dorothy

    PS....the next post will be GF"s

    On the road that will have that pot of gold

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 05:44 PM   #194
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    HI HEARTLAND,



    IT’S GOODY’S BEST FRIEND AGAIN.



    I just read your posts today and I am compelled to reply. I just hope I do not overstep my bounds and hurt your feelings, but since you are posting here asking for help, I must be honest with you.



    First I would like to address the scriptures that you mentioned. Ephesians 5 has always been one of my favorites. It is vital that you look AT THE WHOLE CHAPTER – NOT JUST THE FEW VERSES.

    When the Lord tells wives to submit to their husbands in verses 22-24 it is then FOLLOWED BY THE FOLLOWING VERESES 25 -33 (WHICH ARE MANY MORE THAN WHEN HE ADDRESSES THE HUSBANDS)



    “HUSBANDS, LOVE YOUR WIVES, AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY HER, HAVING CLEANSED HER BY THE WASHING OF WATER WITH THE WORD, SO THAT HE MIGHT PRESENT THE CHURCH TO HIMSELF IN SPLENDOR, WITHOUT SPOT OR WRINKLE OR ANY SUCH THING, THAT SHE MIGHT BE HOLY AND WITHOUT BLEMISH. IN THE SAME WAY HUSBANDS SHOULD LOVE THEIR WIVES AS THEIR OWN BODIES. HE WHO LOVES HIS WIFE LOVES HIMSELF. FOR NO ONE EVER HATED HIS OWN FLESH, BUT NOURISHES AND CHERISHES IT, JUST AS CHRIST DOES THE CHURCH, BECAUSE WE ARE MEMBERS OF HIS BODY. THEREFORE A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AND HOLD FAST TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALLL BECOME ONE FLESH. THIS MYSTERY IS PROFOUND, AND I AM SAYING THAT IT REFERS TO CHRIST AND THE CHURCH. HOWEVER, LET EACH ONE OF YOU LOVE HIS WIFE AS HIMSELF, AND LET THE WIFE SEE THAT SHE RESPECTS HER HUSBAND.



    Heartland,

    As you can see, the Lord spent 3 x the amount of time addressing the husbands than the wives. In order for a woman to respect, love, and TRUST her husband’s leading, SHE MUST FEEL HE IS ALWAYS THINKING OF HER AND LOVING HER THE WAY CHRIST LOVES HIS CHURCH.

    REMEMBER JESUS DIED FOR US. She must feel that he is nourishing and cherishing her (vs 29).

    When a man does not listen to the pleads of his wife to get a job –HE IS NOT LOVING HER THE WAY SCRIPTURE TELLS HIM TO.



    WORKING MEANS BRINGING HOME A STEADY PAYCHECK. VOLUNTEER WORK DOES NOT COUNT. I FEEL YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING MY HUSBAND DID. I BEG YOU TO OPEN UP YOUR EYES AND TAKE AN HONEST LOOK AT THE SITUATION. If you are spending your days on the computer trying to help others, instead of leaving your house and looking for jobs (filling our applications, submitting resumes) on a daily basis, you are NOT fulfilling your responsibility to love and provide for your wife. When you and my husband see the hurt and anger over not being steadily employed, how can you possibly think you are loving us. I think it is one of the most unloving things a husband can do. I see it as a very selfish action. Christ expects the husband to lay down his life for his wife. Can you honestly tell me, you are laying down your life for your wife when you even told us you can not even discuss the subject without her becoming upset. I’m sorry, but I do not see your actions any different from my husbands. I think you are trying to justify it by telling yourself you are helping all the people on the healthboard web site. What about your wife????????



    I would bet money that it BRINGS HER MUCH EMOTIONAL PAIN (AND YES ANGERS HER) when she knows you are typing away on the computer during the day, instead of beating down the pavement looking for work. She may not tell you that, but if it has been 2 years since your business has been making a good income, there is no way she is not at the very least – UPSET AND DISSAPOINTED IN YOU. Also, I got the impression that maybe your business, (Which you state you have done over 5 years), may not have been very financially fruitful ever.

    Don’t you think the signs were there for at least 2 years that it was time to find a job?



    I’m sorry if I am coming across very harsh, but I am seeing more and more similarities to my situation as you write. Heartland, to put it bluntly, do you want to lose your wife’s love and respect?



    I have hypertension, a bulging disk in my back, arthritis in my ankles, knees, hips and back and require daily prescription medication (anti-inflammatory med, and anti-hypertensive med. ) or I would not be able to function. When I have tried to stop the anti-inflammatory med for more than 2 days – I became incapacitated in bed with horrible pain and then needed Codeine as well to alleviate the pain. Thankfully, the medications make it manageable and I although experience discomfort even on the medication, do not have severe relapses unless I try to do too much. I have been able to manage the pain, and because a lot of my job is at a desk, I am able to continue to work. Thankfully, nursing is not just hospital in-patient nursing any longer- otherwise I would not be able to work. There is no excuse, except severe illness for a husband to not provide for his family. My father, who died of colon cancer at the age of 57, had a successful business, and worked far longer than he should while in pain at times, because he loved his family and wanted to provide the best he could for my mother. My mother NEVER had a moment’s worry in their marriage that he would take care of them and personally I think every woman should have that security. If a woman needs to work outside the home to HELP SUPPLEMENT her husband’s income, she must feel that he is doing his best to do his share to the best of his ability.



    Well, you may decide you never want to hear from me again after this, however, I really am trying to help your situation, especially your wife. This situation is so similar to my own, that it just stirs up all the hurt, anger and frustration within me.

    Please love your wife the way scripture commands and let this be the day that you make the changes that need to be done.



    GOODY’S BEST FRIEND

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 08:47 PM   #195
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Goody, I read GBF’s latest post and as before it is excellent. I will comment to her directly tomorrow (hopefully). Her posts and yours today seem extremely focused on my root problems. As a result, I have input to help realize and analyze my biggest weaknesses. I have never thought about them so deeply before.

    After further thought, I don’t think my posting habit is actually a classic addiction although I don’t know enough about addictions to be sure. Please let me explain something I just realized that involves my chronic procrastination habit and things I have a passion for - like posting. Let me warn you that this will illustrate just how extremely anal-retentive I am.

    Life is full of tasks and subtasks (I shall refer to both simply as tasks). Performing a task requires two steps… starting the task, and performing the task. (If a task is complex, its planning will most likely be a separate task.) My core problem is with starting (or restarting) any task. I can prioritize tasks with the best of them to determine which task to do next but I don’t ever seem to actually do them in that order. Almost subconsciously, I actually perform tasks in the following order:
    - Tasks with hard deadlines that can’t be put off any longer.
    - Tasks that I have a passion for.
    - All other tasks (work)

    I now realize that I perform tasks in the order of the gratification they provide me.
    - I absolutely get the biggest rush out of barely making a deadline.
    - Most items that I have a passion for either don’t happen too often or take very long to perform. Checking for posting opportunities and posting itself are very notable exceptions.
    - All other tasks eventually either become deadlines or disappear if postponed long enough.

    Goody, I’ve never really thought about any of this destructive behavior until today. This actually explains quite a bit about me. I procrastinate for the rush it provides me. Posting isn’t as much an addiction as it is a gratification priority. Low gratification tasks like job hunting keep getting deferred until I sense some sort of deadline.

    Just writing all this down is quite a revelation to me; I can hardly believe what I just wrote… I’m not sure if knowing this is enough to help me to change my ways. Can one overcome a compulsion by simply understanding it? Have you ever heard of anything to explain this type of behavior? Really, I feel quite stunned right now and would appreciate any advice you might have in the morning. -Heartland


    PS: Unless I can modify this behavioral compulsion, I now understand that I’m very poorly suited for self-employment.

    PPS: FYI, I have appointments near midday tomorrow.

    Last edited by heartlandguy; 03-08-2005 at 09:29 PM.

     
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