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    Old 03-08-2005, 09:42 PM   #196
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Goody, I read GBF’s latest post and as before it is excellent. I will comment to her directly tomorrow (hopefully).
    Heartland....MBF has informed me that she does not want you responding to her posts unless you are specifically identifying any problems and solutions to your situation. She realizes that you spend a considerable amount of time in your posts and does not wish to contribute to that unless it is addressing your problem specifically. I think you already know this but thought I needed to remind you so that we don't waste precious time.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartand
    After further thought, I don’t think my posting habit is actually a classic addiction although I don’t know enough about addictions to be sure. Please let me explain something I just realized that involves my chronic procrastination habit and things I have a passion for - like posting. Let me warn you that this will illustrate just how extremely anal-retentive I am.
    I took the liberty of finding a definition that will clearly identify that your behavior is classicly siimilar to that as being addictive.

    "Addiction is an activity or substance that an individual wants to experience, for which he/she will pay a price, sometimes a negative one. Addictive behavior commonly provides a high level of satisfaction. It creates an environment of need in the individual that cannot seem to be satisfied without that activity or substance. If an individual does not take control, eventually, the addictive behavior controls him/her.

    Addictive behavior is a habit that is learned over time through a process of trial and error or personal observation. Through this process, a habit forms only if there is at least a portion of the experience that is pleasurable. Having had a positive experience, an urge or desire for the experience is begun. It is unlikely that a person will become addicted to a substance or activity that did not provide at least a small amount of pleasure.

    Addictions do one of the following to the individual, either they elevate his/her mood or decrease his/her negative mood. The pleasure of the addiction can block out an unwanted emotion or feeling. For example, if an individual is not fitting in with a group of people, he/she can change his/her behavior to match that of the group (drinking, using drugs). When used in this manner, the addiction is more of a coping response to a certain situation or circumstance that may progress into a habit."





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartland
    My core problem is with starting (or restarting) any task. I can prioritize tasks with the best of them to determine which task to do next but I don’t ever seem to actually do them in that order. Almost subconsciously, I actually perform tasks in the following order:
    - Tasks with hard deadlines that can’t be put off any longer.
    - Tasks that I have a passion for.
    - All other tasks (work)

    I now realize that I perform tasks in the order of the gratification they provide me.
    - I absolutely get the biggest rush out of barely making a deadline.
    - Most items that I have a passion for either don’t happen too often or take very long to perform. Checking for posting opportunities and posting itself are very notable exceptions.
    - All other tasks eventually either become deadlines or disappear if postponed long enough.
    I wonder, Heartland, if perhaps you may possess an adult form of ADD. As MBF already shared....her husband has this and thus has problems staying on task or sticking to one job. Perhaps this is something you should have professionally evaluated. What you describe above is almost typical of somebody with ADD.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartland
    Goody, I’ve never really thought about any of this destructive behavior until today. This actually explains quite a bit about me. I procrastinate for the rush it provides me. Posting isn’t as much an addiction as it is a gratification priority. Low gratification tasks like job hunting keep getting deferred until I sense some sort of deadline.
    I still tend to believe that your behavior leans towards addictive in the sense of the instant gratification it gives you. Often there is a great deal of denial involved, as well, which we can clearly see. ADD and addictions can both lead to destructive behavior.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartland
    Just writing all this down is quite a revelation to me; I can hardly believe what I just wrote… I’m not sure if knowing this is enough to help me to change my ways. Can one overcome a compulsion by simply understanding it? Have you ever heard of anything to explain this type of behavior? Really, I feel quite stunned right now and would appreciate any advice you might have in the morning.
    My spiritual connection kicked in since I couldn't sleep....and so I thought I would get a head start. The first step to an addiction/compulsion is in identifying it and then identifying the underlying problems that lead to it. I found a list that may help out....

    There are several factors that can influence an addiction. They include:

    *Family history of addictive behaviors which may increase the risk for similar addictive behaviors

    *Encouragement from others

    *Acceptance of the behavior by others

    *Low self-esteem

    *Craving for excitement/boredom

    *High stress level

    *Availability of substance or activity

    PS: Unless I can modify this behavioral compulsion, I now understand that I’m very poorly suited for self-employment. I agree. Now if you agree that you fit the description of having an addictive behavior I think it's time to stop all the running around in circles and admit it and allow me to help you. I am posting this so you will have it to see first thing in the morning.

    Heartland....you get an A+ for your bravery....I think you accomplished more today than you have in weeks
    Post here in the morning & I will discuss what I feel will help you get home again and quickly.....Dorothy

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-08-2005 at 10:08 PM.

     
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    Old 03-09-2005, 07:38 AM   #197
    heartlandguy
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Goody, please be patient with me. After I posted last night, I waited a bit but shut off my computer when I knew it was past your normal bedtime. Later, I felt compelled to turn it back on to check-in here (I've never done that before for this site ) and there was your 15-minute old post.

    Goody, I know you will lead me to the answers I need and I will cooperate with you 100%. However, I have been composing since early this morning to provide both GBF and you with much more background information about my problem. Again, please be patient and don't worry.

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 08:58 AM   #198
    heartlandguy
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Goody, before I get back to me, I need to talk to GBF and you about her situation. (Remember, I’m still broken and I can’t help myself Seriously, I will my situation more clearly, too, as I write this so I’m doing this for GBF and me.) I don’t want to enter into a dialog with GBF either but must point out what I think both of you should “see”.

    The deeper I get into this thread, the more strongly I feel He planned this thread because we all seem to know something that we haven’t found elsewhere. His hand always reveals the beauty of symmetry (a human trinity; where two or three gather) and I feel that strongly here. If I am right, this may be the last time I will need to address GBF per se. I believe He wants her to “see” the similarities between her husband and me as Goody and I continue with this thread, and later act accordingly with Goody’s help.

    GBF, I agree with virtually everything you told me yesterday. If I don’t change within 1-2 years, I will be exactly where you predicted… may even worse. At this point, I see just two differences between your situation and mine… First, we still have enough money left to keep my wife from being as distraught as you. (We won’t have that advantage for long unless I change.) Second, I know I have a problem and want to change; I haven’t heard that said about your husband.

    As you clearly predicted and I found out last Saturday morning, I can’t confide in my wife anymore about my employment situation because it quickly becomes too emotional for both of us. But you and I have messages for each other that we feel compelled, maybe inspired, to exchange. Thank you for your posts; they have really helped me to focus on my core problem. I needed both Goody’s and your posts yesterday to make the progress I have thus far and today I’m extremely optimistic.

    Only you can judge how closely my problem relates to your husband’s problem. If you find that what I say next speaks directly to your husband’s situation, please heed my words like I did yours.

    I seem to be unusually perceptive for a man. That gift has a downside; it also means that I’m highly distracted. In order to function in the real world, I have learned how to focus so strongly for brief periods of time that I become oblivious to almost everything going on around me. That level of concentration is extremely draining but without it, I’d be totally dysfunctional. When I focus, I become more analytical, less perceptive and wonderful things seem to happen. Unfortunately, I can’t focus for long periods of time so I become highly perceptive and highly distracted whenever I need a break. At those moments, I cannot control my attention and I’m irresistibly drawn to low priority but gratifying tasks. I simply cannot help myself but maybe with Goody’s guidance, that will change.

    I know I had this problem while in college and ever since. Overnight, my employment history flashed through my head. I tended to excel when highly supervised and actually enjoyed the supervision because it gave me more opportunity to communicate about mostly positive things. When I was given more autonomy on the job, I tended to flounder enough to no longer excel.

    If what I just said correlates well with your husband, I must warn you that your husband will most likely fail with his dream job unless he is highly supervised. When I became self-employed, I had my dream job but certain portions of that job were uninteresting. I could excel at the fun parts of the job but basically failed at the uninteresting parts. I was compelled to spend way too much time on the fun parts of the job, but only met the deadlines associated with the uninteresting parts.

    I think I’m highly driven by deadlines because that is my way of proving to others that I’m normal. Based on that, personal deadlines mean nothing to me. Unfortunately, I treat my wife’s deadlines like mine… probably because I know I can’t change her opinion of me. Can you see my problem here? I’m doing what Ephesians 5:22-33 says I should do; I’m treating her just like I treat myself. Unfortunately, in my current condition, I’m failing both of us.

    GBF, if my situation still seems to fit yours, I have only one piece of advice. If your husband is like me, unemployment is only a symptom of his problem, not the cause. If you can “cure” the cause of his problems, finding and keeping employment will become much easier for him.

    Goody, I’ve wondered since I joined these boards if I have a mild form of ADD. Part of the reason I now have doubts if I’m truly addicted to posting is that I always seem to seek something that I’m passionate about so I can avoid doing mundane tasks. If you cure me of posting too much, I fear I’ll just find something else to waste my time… like I always have. However, I trust you completely here and, frankly, can’t think of a person better qualified to help me with this type of problem. I’ll work through this your way but I felt you needed to know what I posted above to better understand my situation. If you think it is best that I should respond completely to your late night post, just say so and I’ll do it, my friend.

    I think a cure for my distractions will also “cure” my perceptive abilities. I wonder if GBF’s husband was ever treated for ADD and didn’t like the cure for that reason. I fear that a cure could be like kryptonite for me but that may be an acceptable price for being normal. I wish I could talk to a “(red) caped crusader” about this.

    PS: Yikes! I just saw Wowwwweeee posting on Red’s thread today. If she looks here, she’ll have a field day with me… Helllllllp!!!

    PSS: I’ll soon be gone for hours but will reply eventually… I’m not sulking!

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 09:15 AM   #199
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Goody, I’ve wondered since I joined these boards if I have a mild form of ADD. Part of the reason I now have doubts if I’m truly addicted to posting is that I always seem to seek something that I’m passionate about so I can avoid doing mundane tasks. If you cure me of posting too much, I fear I’ll just find something else to waste my time… like I always have. However, I trust you completely here and, frankly, can’t think of a person better qualified to help me with this type of problem. I’ll work through this your way but I felt you needed to know what I posted above to better understand my situation. If you think it is best that I should respond completely to your late night post, just say so and I’ll do it, my friend.

    Heartland....I see no need to respond to my last post since alot of what you discussed in your previous post to MBF seems to answer alot. Last night I came up with a plan which I think we should put into effect tomorrow. The only thing I ask that you do in addition to what I put together is make an appointment with your private MD to further discuss the possibility of you having ADD. With proper medication and management it can be the answer to many of your problems in terms of staying focused and the impulsiveness that is so characteristic of ADD. Okay....my next post is where your trust and bravery come in, my lion. So grab a hold of Dorothy's hand and get ready to follow the yellow brick road to bring YOU home, my dear friend ...Dorothy aka Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-09-2005 at 09:16 AM.

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 09:20 AM   #200
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Heartland ~

    Yesterday was what I want us to refer to as the “first day of the rest of your life“. It’s the day that you decided to admit your addiction and the day you asked for help.

    I know you, Heartland….and as in any addiction there is a “fix”. We need to identify your “fix”…if I were to take a guess I would say it would be confidence and acceptance. While most people seek this in the real world by living and completing their responsibilities, you are here seeking internal comfort often to the point of emotional drunkenness. While there are some that seek comfort in the bottle or in a drug, you seek it in the boards. There is nothing wrong with being here, however, if it distracts you from daily activities on an ongoing basis, interfering with normal responsibility to family, friends, and career….then it is an obvious problem with addictive characteristics.

    So now that we have identified the problem….we need to come up with a solution. Normally if it were a drug/alcohol addiction the best treatment would be to go to a rehab center and go cold turkey with careful supervision and monitoring. It would also involve a support group and counseling. However, since your addiction is of a different nature I see that it requires a different treatment plan with similar aspects incorporated so as to insure it’s success.

    I came up with a plan based upon my own experience and knowledge having 2 brother-in-laws who have been in and out of rehab centers. Although your problem does not stem from drug/alcohol addiction, I believe the treatment would basically be the same. And so that is what I used in order to come up with a plan that I feel would most benefit you.

    Before you read my plan I would like you to think back to my “Marriage Thread” where we first met. I think that we would both agree, as Tom does, that Dorothy came seeking help and trusted you enough to do whatever it took to help her marriage. You designed a plan for us (Tom remembers it quite well ) and I trusted you enough to know that you had our best interests at stake even though other posters disagreed. And it was that trust that allowed me to save my marriage. I have gone over this plan with both MBF and Tom. Both agree it is a good one that will help you out of your “darkest moment”. I must be honest, that if you do not agree to this plan then I see the viability of this thread to be lost and the risk of my codependency to your behavior high, which will help neither of us . So….in order for our time here to be used productively, I need for you to put your anal-retentiveness aside and just respond without “dotting you I’s and crossing your T’s”. If you cannot see this plan as being helpful then it is my suggestion that you seek outside professional help. That’s coming from a friend that loves you dearly.


    GOODY’S PLAN

    * No viewing or posting on any other threads

    * Posting will be limited to 2 hours daily on this thread only so long as it doesn’t interfere with other responsibilities, family life, or career. (This time will also include off line posts) Ideally you would be asked to give up your addiction totally, however, at this time we will allow this thread to serve as your support. Times will be determined with Mrs. H’s input and coordinated with this thread. I was not comfortable in using an addiction to treat the addiction but feel that this thread may be used in lieu of the typical AA meeting/support.

    * On downtime, you will spend time tending to responsibilities on the home front and make it your #1 priority of seeking gainful employment. (By physically leaving your house and submitting at least 3-4 applications/day) When you find that you are facing a weak moment you are to immediately journal your feelings and seek comfort in reading your bible or other self help book. Normally you would call a friend, if you can line up someone off line to serve in this capacity that would be even better. This person would serve as your support offline and would also be the one that you would be accountable to. (Friend, priest but not Mrs. H) You must be willing to be completely honest with this person in order to be cured (addiction to Healthboards and work problems) Remember, the goal is to spend most of your time in the real world fulfilling your responsibilities to family, career, and daily activities in the household.


    I am asking other posters here who have experience with addictive behavior to offer support or any input as to any revisions or modifications that should be made to my plan. Ruth….I know that you personally have experience in this area and Goody is open to any suggestions.

    My plan is to post the 12 steps that AA utilizes as a guideline by which you reflect on your daily progress. I also suggest that you go out to a bookstore and find any other resources that will assist you personally with your problem. That way they will be readily available to you during downtime.

    This plan shall remain in effect until gainful employment is sought and is not up for reevaluation until you have met that criteria.

    It is your agreement that if you cannot adhere to this plan that you will agree to post the mods requesting a permanent ban from the boards and seek professional help.

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-09-2005 at 09:41 AM. Reason: adding smilies

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 12:44 PM   #201
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Hi Heartland,

    It’s Goody’s Best Friend Again!



    I did not expect to post again for awhile, however some of your comments in your last post require my input again.



    1) When you said, “If I don’t change within 1-2 years, I will be exactly where you predicted.”



    Heartland, what I said was not a prediction. I feel you are at about the same place now as my husband. If you add up ALL the various number of times he has been unemployed, it comes out to slightly less than 2 years if it was consecutively. You have not been making a salary in at least 2 years from what you have said, (and I suspect may have been longer than that from what you wrote in previous posts.) WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU WANT TO WAIT ANY LONGER? When I read 1-2 years, I almost gasped!!! This last job lay off from my husband has been the longest he was ever out of work. It has been 6 months. To be honest, if he had been out of work as long as you have been consecutively unemployed, I would have left my husband already!!! (Not bringing home a steady paycheck even if you have a home business – is unemployed) Just because you still have savings in the bank does NOT JUSTIFY YOU NOT PROVIDING FOR YOUR FAMILY!!!!)



    2) Yes, it is correct that my husband does not wish to change because he thinks he is right. He thinks ministry comes before family. That is not correct!!! Only a single man should be living that kind of life. Not a married man.

    I agreed to become involved in this thread to help your situation. As I stated previously, you can not change someone – they can only change themselves IF THEY WANT TO. DO YOU WANT TO OR NOT?

    To be quite frank, I am a working mother and do not have the time to waste on this if you will not admit you need to change NOW!!! How can you possibly think you are not hurting your wife and HARMING YOUR RELATIONSHIP IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE NOW. DO YOU WANT TO LOSE YOUR WIFE????????

    AS YOU SAID IN YOUR LAST POST, “I CAN’T CONFIDE IN MY WIFE ANYMORE ABOUT MY EMPLOYMENT SITUATION BECAUSE IT BECOMES TOO EMOTIONAL FOR BOTH OF US.” ( Do you lose your temper and yell at your wife when things become emotional??) Please answer this question……….

    YOU ARE HURTING YOUR WIFE AND LOSING HER RESPECT ON A DAILY BASIS EVERY DAY YOU ARE NOT OUT OF THE HOUSE APPLYING FOR JOBS.



    3) You mentioned you are “highly distracted” and “can’t focus for long periods of time.”

    My husband as I mentioned has ADHD. My son also has ADHD. However, my husband’s ADHD is much more pronounced than my son’s. Being that I live with 2 people with ADHD, I have first hand knowledge, as well as book knowledge of it. Heartland, you have classic symptoms of either ADD or ADHD. Please go see a physician that is knowledgeable about the disorder and get treatment if needed. My husband and son both take medication, because they realize they function much better on the medication. My husband is amazed at how much better he can focus and stay organized when he takes the med. He says it even makes a huge difference when he is speaking on helping him to communicate his thoughts more effectively. If you needed glasses to see – wouldn’t you wear them? So why should it be any different to take medication if needed to treat something that may be the main problem with your unemployment status.



    4) You said, “I am doing what Ephesians 5:22-33 says I should do; I’m treating her just like I treat myself.”

    YOU NEED TO GO BACK AND STUDY THE WHOLE CHAPTER AGAIN. REMEMBER, IT MEANS LOVING YOUR WIFE JUST LIKE CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER” When you spend your days on the computer, YOU ARE NOT LAYING DOWN YOUR LIFE FOR YOUR WIFE AND YOU ARE NOT LOVING HER THE WAY CHRIST COMMANDS YOU TO!!!! You are instead indulging in selfish behavior to make yourself feel better.





    Heartland, you need to decide TODAY if you are going to make the changes needed. I do not have the time to make small talk. I’m doing this to help you. If you don’t want the help, please tell us now.

    AS I SAID BEFORE – DO YOU WANT TO LOSE YOUR WIFE??? You may have already lost her respect.

    TODAY IS THE DAY TO DECIDE – MAKE YOUR CHOICE PLEASE!!!



    Good’s Best Friend

    GBF




    HEARTLAND THIS IS AN ADDENDUM TO MY LAST POST

    You mentioned in your post that you did better when you were closely supervised. This is NOT the case for my husband. He has had jobs in management and an even higher position (which he was not paid nearly as much as he should have been). In all those positions, he was able to do a wonderful job while he was interested in that particular job. In fact, he does better when he is not closely supervised. He even won several awards while doing these jobs. He loves interacting with people, loves net-working, and loves planning events and functions. As long as he can find a job where he is able to do these things and has autonomy and is in charge – he does well.

    I on the other hand am a little shy, very organized, and more of a homebody –however love to have sincere close friendships and love the theatre, movies, opera, vacations and dining out. (Unfortunately, due to lack of funds, I am not able to do the things I love – and have not for a fairly long period of time.) As you can see, my husband and I are very different, his strengths are my weaknessness and my strengths fill in his weaknesses.

    It should in theory be very complimentary as long as we are EACH taking care of our individual responsibilities. When something, LIKE UNEMPLOYMENT, throws off the proper balance, the harmony is ruined.



    GOODY’S BEST FRIEND

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-09-2005 at 12:56 PM.

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 02:25 PM   #202
    heartlandguy
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Goody’s Best Friend
    DO YOU WANT TO {change} OR NOT?
    Yes, I want to change now.

    Quote:
    Please go see a physician that is knowledgeable about the disorder and get treatment if needed. My husband and son both take medication, because they realize they function much better on the medication. My husband is amazed at how much better he can focus and stay organized when he takes the med. He says it even makes a huge difference when he is speaking on helping him to communicate his thoughts more effectively. If you needed glasses to see – wouldn’t you wear them? So why should it be any different to take medication if needed to treat something that may be the main problem with your unemployment status.
    I will be addressing this soon with Goody.

    Quote:
    4) You said, “I am doing what Ephesians 5:22-33 says I should do; I’m treating her just like I treat myself.”
    YOU NEED TO GO BACK AND STUDY THE WHOLE CHAPTER AGAIN. REMEMBER, IT MEANS LOVING YOUR WIFE JUST LIKE CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER” When you spend your days on the computer, YOU ARE NOT LAYING DOWN YOUR LIFE FOR YOUR WIFE AND YOU ARE NOT LOVING HER THE WAY CHRIST COMMANDS YOU TO!!!! You are instead indulging in selfish behavior to make yourself feel better.
    You chose to exclude the line following what you quoted from me: "Unfortunately, in my current condition, I’m failing both of us." To me, the excluded sentence was more important than what you quoted.

    I’m not taking your “tough love” advice lightly. Maybe you excluded the line because it sounds too wishy-washy for you. Would you be satisfied if I rephrased one of your lines to replace the excluded line?… I am not loving her or me the way Christ commands me to!!!! The point of my excluded line was to take responsibility for “indulging in selfish behavior” that is harming my wife and me. In my parlance, my selfish behavior is killing two birds with one stone... in a very negative way. I hoped you would see that as meaning that I have double the incentive to change my ways.


    GBF, I do believe you when you say you are doing this to help my wife and me. Thanks for your posts to me and for helping Goody help me. I sense your exasperation with me because I must come across as a hypocrite. I thought sharing my situation might be helpful for you but I was wrong. The last thing I want to do is waste your time so this will be my last post to you unless you request something from me. Thanks again. -Heartland


    Oops, sorry!
    Quote:
    AS YOU SAID IN YOUR LAST POST, “I CAN’T CONFIDE IN MY WIFE ANYMORE ABOUT MY EMPLOYMENT SITUATION BECAUSE IT BECOMES TOO EMOTIONAL FOR BOTH OF US.” (Do you lose your temper and yell at your wife when things become emotional??) Please answer this question……….
    My questions exasperate her so she eventually loses her temper and yells. I respond to her in like manner.

    Last edited by heartlandguy; 03-09-2005 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Addendum (at the bottom)

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 02:49 PM   #203
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Yes, I want to change now.I’m not taking your “tough love” advice lightly. Maybe you excluded the line because it sounds too wishy-washy for you. Would you be satisfied if I rephrased one of your lines to replace the excluded line?… I am not loving her or me the way Christ commands me to!!!! The point of my excluded line was to take responsibility for “indulging in selfish behavior” that is harming my wife and me. In my parlance, my selfish behavior is killing two birds with one stone... in a very negative way. I hoped you would see that as meaning that I have double the incentive to change my ways.
    Heartland ~ I couldn't reach MBF following your post and I just wanted to tell you how proud I am of you I know today must have been your most difficult day....you have been hit from all angles but when there is a purpose to something and success....sometimes it unfolds this way. Nothing was planned humanly.....I believe you are finally seeing the purpose of this thread.

    You pointed out this morning your "seeing" the signs....there have been signs on this road all along for us, we just have to be brave and allow them to lead the way. I admire your courage....as it says in the serenity prayer, a prayer said by wonderful people with addictive behaviors.......

    God grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change;
    courage to change the things I can;
    and wisdom to know the difference.

    Living one day at a time;
    Enjoying one moment at a time;
    Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
    Taking, as He did, this sinful world
    as it is, not as I would have it;
    Trusting that He will make all things right
    if I surrender to His Will;
    That I may be reasonably happy in this life
    and supremely happy with Him
    Forever in the next.
    Amen.

    You said you want to change NOW.......and I admire the courage it took to say that. For without your will to change, our journey would be at an end. Stay on the road with me, Heartland. I know you want to run for the hills, but half the battle is won if you want to change.

    With, love, friendship and hugs and prayers......Dorothy

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-09-2005 at 02:50 PM.

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 03:44 PM   #204
    heartlandguy
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by goody2shuz
    …in order for our time here to be used productively, I need for you to put your anal-retentiveness aside and just respond without “dotting you I’s and crossing your T’s”. If you cannot see this plan as being helpful then it is my suggestion that you seek outside professional help.
    Goody, I like your plan very much overall. I’ve printed it out and am going over it and am checking for compliance issues. In your marriage thread, Tom and you decided to make at least one minor change in my plan. Although I was concerned about the change, I saw that you planned to follow the spirit of the plan and congratulated you on making a good decision. I hope you allow me the same leeway. I want you to have no doubts about what I am doing. Tom and you made your changes on the fly; I’d rather tell you up front later. Okay?

    I also have some thoughts that I want to share with you later that seem to mesh well with your plan. I hope you are open to that.

    I found a book that I forgot I owned that is written by authors who write about Cognitive Behavior Therapy (yeah, I know) and Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy. It is called, “A Guide to Rational Living” by Albert Ellis, PH.D. and Robert A. Harper, PH.D. I “think” a medical counselor recommended it when I had questions about the effect of the mind on dieting and weight loss. I called my family doctor’s office to verify the reason for my visit to the counselor but they won’t be able to research this until tomorrow. The “watery” online bookstore where I bought it has sample pages of the covers, table of contents, etc. If you have the time, I would like your opinion if you think it would a good candidate as a self-help book.

    Finally, I must run the plan past Mrs. H. who won’t be home until late tonight. I’m sure you understand why I must do this.

    Can you work with a stubborn old lion that really likes your concepts?

    Last edited by heartlandguy; 03-09-2005 at 03:48 PM.

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 04:05 PM   #205
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Can you work with a stubborn old lion that really likes your concepts?
    You are a procrastinator....part of the problem How available are you tonite????? I'm getting dinner on the table and then will be available. Meanwhile I want you to check out a book called "A Life with a Purpose" by George Mair. Be ready to let me know what you think of it....Goody

    PS....will check out the book you mentioned after I eat. And will respond to the rest of your post then as well.....Goody

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 04:47 PM   #206
    heartlandguy
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    I will make myself available tonight. I checked the watery booksite for the book description and customer reviews. The description was uninspiring and the two reviews were uncomplimentary. (BTW, I own around a dozen positive thinking or self help books, read only the older half and that was 15-20 years ago.) I could list the applicable books if you like.

    I'm not trying to procrastinate but I need my wife's input to validate my thoughts before I get back to you. (If I don't handle this properly at least one of you two will be mad at me... like I need that now. ) Mrs. H just got home...

    I can provide you now with one change I want to make. Your penalty for not adhering to the plan means I can't use any of the healthboards for very legitimate purposes, say ADD, exercise, future health issues, etc. I would rather agree to seeking professional help and never again using the boards' most valuable asset.... you. Does that seem fair?

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 05:02 PM   #207
    goody2shuz
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartlandguy
    Goody, I like your plan very much overall. I’ve printed it out and am going over it and am checking for compliance issues. In your marriage thread, Tom and you decided to make at least one minor change in my plan. Although I was concerned about the change, I saw that you planned to follow the spirit of the plan and congratulated you on making a good decision. I hope you allow me the same leeway. I want you to have no doubts about what I am doing. Tom and you made your changes on the fly; I’d rather tell you up front later. Okay?
    Heartland, my dear friend, I know you soooo well that I know where you want leeway. You must remember that with any addiction, in order to succeed, the intervention must be handled aggressively with the source of the addiction totally removed. We're talking about all liquor poured down drains, all drugs and money sources taken away, the person is literally removed from the environment that has provided his addiction. In your case...I can't throw away your computer or turn off your electricity.....and as far as MBF's input goes....she recommended that you not have any access to the boards at least until you had a job if even at all So in this regard, my friend you already have your leeway. OUCH!!!!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartland
    I also have some thoughts that I want to share with you later that seem to mesh well with your plan. I hope you are open to that.
    I am open to anything that is going to get you out of the procrastination mode and gainfully employed If you need any clarification, reread my above response.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartland
    I found a book that I forgot I owned that is written by authors who write about Cognitive Behavior Therapy (yeah, I know) and Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy. It is called, “A Guide to Rational Living” by Albert Ellis, PH.D. and Robert A. Harper, PH.D. I “think” a medical counselor recommended it when I had questions about the effect of the mind on dieting and weight loss. I called my family doctor’s office to verify the reason for my visit to the counselor but they won’t be able to research this until tomorrow. The “watery” online bookstore where I bought it has sample pages of the covers, table of contents, etc. If you have the time, I would like your opinion if you think it would a good candidate as a self-help book.
    So long as your "self-help" does not turn into "paralysis by analysis" as Mr. H so wisely says....this book and any book should be okay. I will take more time to research this book later and be happy to give you my feedback, however, I want to make one thing clear....I do not want you procrastinating any more, Heartland, you've had may years and have spent too much time with the self-help books. It's time to put it all into action. You cannot be here in the capacity of helping others....now is the time to put all your energies and efforts into helping yourself!!! Do you think you can do that???? Forget about the rest of the world. It's time you focus on you and Mrs. H and doing what God tells you so clearly to do for the one you love. Once you are able to do that successfully, eventually you can balance it with your love of helping others. But we know that Job One still awaits

    Finally, I must run the plan past Mrs. H. who won’t be home until late tonight. I’m sure you understand why I must do this. We will meet first thing in the am....let me know the time. Time is of the essence here and if i see any more procrastination I will be takiing that as a clear sign that you are not ready to be helped.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heartland
    Can you work with a stubborn old lion that really likes your concepts?
    I think I already covered this one....now let me know what we can do this evening in order to be ready for action in the am....Dorothy aka Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 03-09-2005 at 05:10 PM.

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 07:58 PM   #208
    heartlandguy
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Goody, after having a very pleasant and realistic half-hour talk with my wife about the plan, we realize I’m between a rock and a hard place concerning the plan and the local job market… and if I try to explain why, I expect you to think I’m procrastinating. When I can’t explain things without it being seen as procrastination, this thread simply becomes a source of stress. Maybe I should avoid the boards completely until Monday and see if I feel differently then. I have plenty of important tasks to accomplish in the mean time. Goody, I’m sure your plan works great in NYC but my wife and I see a problem or two with it being realistic here. I can see all the work and time you put into the plan so I feel bad not seeing a way to make it work without some adaptations. I guess I am blind. Maybe I won’t be Monday. Don’t think I’m upset; I’m just frustrated.

    I haven’t had the opportunity to tell you that I feel real change in me since my “starting tasks” post last night. For the remainder of last night, I was really stunned to realize how I actually prioritized the tasks I start. This morning I felt a real peace that I haven’t felt in a long time. All day long I have done an excellent job of starting tasks for the right reason. I did read other threads for about 5 minutes today but otherwise felt no desire to use the boards other than to defeat my problem.

    There is no bigger skeptic than me, but I believe finally understanding why I start tasks for the wrong reason has changed me (at least for the first 24 hours ). Before I had no tools to fight my impulses and I never consciously realized how yielding to “seemingly harmless” impulses could cause so many problems. Today I was painfully aware of my pattern of failure and it seemed easy to defeat since I now know what to expect. I am going to watch myself very carefully until I can decide if I have really changed or if I’m just hallucinating. I may be hopeful but I’m still primarily skeptical.

    Today I really didn’t feel compelled to read/post for the joy of it. Nor did I waste any of my time on my substitute time killers. Instead, I felt a very relaxed focus on changing my negative habits concerning employment. While discussing the plan with my wife, I realized I haven’t explored the local job market properly and I have specific plans for doing that tomorrow. If I honestly believe a week from now that I have gained control over my “impulses for failure”, I may seriously reconsider self-employment.

    Mrs. H. has one home front task that she sorely wants me to accomplish and I need to start making steady progress there. While none of these tasks seem exciting, they all seem suddenly doable. I credit that to GBF and you. Thank you for being my friend. –one brain-dead Heartland

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 08:25 PM   #209
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    Hey, I just came across this post, and thought if you dont mind id like to say something er a few somethings anyway lol. I came from a domestic violence household, and some of the things you mentioned seem like they could be signs of that. I've heard stories of guys using "God will provide" as excuses not to do anything, and i tottally understand where your comming from, because the bible does say he will provide if you try and help yourself too. I dont mean to meddle or anything, i just saw a few red flags there with the previous posts that no ones seemed to notice or metion. I would suggest that if you feel your friend is being threatened will be, or being harmed in any way to try and get help for her if you have the time, and if you want to get that involved. anyway ttyl, and good luck...every1 could use more friends like u.

     
    Old 03-09-2005, 09:00 PM   #210
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    Re: What's a Friend to Do?

    I definitely agree that everyone could use a friend like Goody, or Heartland for that matter! Anyway, I don't have much to add here, but I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to Heartland for taking the time to help me out during a difficult time when you're having a tough time yourself lately. Your advice and unique perspective was invaluable--please don't ever doubt that the time you spend here is important and appreciated. Your generous, unselfish commitment to helping me really touched me, and I wanted to make sure you realize that you've helped save more than Goody's marriage through your good works on these boards. Heartland, you have more to offer than you seem to realize at the time, and I hate to see you seeming to doubt yourself. There's nothing wrong with taking a long hard look at what you're doing and what you want to be doing, but don't lose faith in yourself and all your abilities just because you aren't currently where you want to be career-wise. For your sake along with your wife's, I hope you find a better work situation soon, but your career does not determine your worth nearly to the extent that being a wonderful husband and friend does. Anyway, that's my $.02 for the day--I think you are in very good hands trusting Goody and your wife to see you through this time, and I am fervently hoping that everything works out great with your job situation. In the meantime, don't forget what a great deal of advice and support you've contributed to total strangers here...improving someone's life and relationship is no small accomplishment! Not everyone has the insight and perspective that you possess, so please don't undervalue what you've done here. I personally can't thank you enough for helping me to see Patrick's side clearly enough to get our relationship back on track and going better than ever...and I'm sure I'm not the only one whose life you've positively impacted. Your time here hasn't been wasted from my perspective, and I hope you don't think of it as such, even though you may need to take time off to focus on yourself right now. I will be thinking of you and wishing you well...always remember that you have several friends here for you whenever you need support .

     
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