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    Old 03-02-2005, 06:20 PM   #1
    edved2001
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    Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    Hello everyone. New here, this is my first post. Hope you can help me.

    Well, i've been dating my girlfriend for 3 years as of last week. We are great together. I've been divorced for 4 years (wife cheated on me and is now married to other man), and I have 2 kids with my ex. GF has an 8 year old son who lives with me (we've been living together for 2 years now). I'm 34, she's 26.

    So what's the problem you ask? I work for Ford on an assembly line, not glamorous, but it pays well. Over the summer, an opportunity came that I could get someone hired there as well. My GF's worked as a waitress/bartender for years and has struggled financially her entire life. I hated the thought of her working in the plant. She's a very beautiful woman and I knew that every guy in there would be all over her. It's a scary place to work. Wives and Husbands cheat with coworkers constantly... i'm not making it up. It's like a big high school. But, I felt as if I couldn't deny her the opportunity to make some good money as well as the insurance benefits, etc. Everyone I told said that it was the beginning of the end of our relationship. I told her how I felt and she reassured me that she wouldn't get caught up in the drama.

    She started 10 weeks ago and was put on afternoon shift... I work days. It sucks, but at least she could get her son off to school and i'll be here when he gets home.

    So, about a month ago she calls me around 1:00 am and asks if i'd mind if she went and had a few drinks with 2 girlfriends she hired in with. I told her to go ahead, but don't make it a habit. About a week later, she wakes me up at 3:30am (if she works 8 hours she gets off at 12:30, 10 hours gets her out at 2:30am), she's very talkative and loving. Says she's been doing a lot of thinking and she's been scared lately because 3 years is longer than any relationship she's ever been in... but she now knows that i'm the one for her and she wants to spend the rest of her life with me, yada, yada, yada. I asked her if she'd been drinking. She says "no". I ask how long she worked, she says "10 hours". I dropped it, but just had a feeling.

    The next morning I explained to a friend about what we talked about and told him, "I swear she was drunk though... i'm half tempted to go check her time sheet"(in every dept. they post how many hours you've worked, so you can double check and make sure everythings ok.). But, I said I wasn't going to because I didn't want to start being insecure, etc. The next day, that friend tells me he went and looked and she only worked 8 hours. I confront her and she finally admits she went out for "a drink" with her girlfriend and didn't tell me because she didn't want to upset me. I have never given her a reason to be afraid to tell me anything.

    Still with me? I warned you it was long
    So, everything's forgiven and we go out to a local bar 2 weekends ago where my friends band was playing. Lots of coworker's were there. Her "drinking buddy", who i've never met was there with her mom whom i've worked with for 12 years. By the end of the night, we all have a good 'buzz' on and her friend starts telling me that I can do so much better than my GF. I have been insecure about her supervisor because he's known as a "ladies man"(had quite a few of 'em out there, is my understanding.) I ask her friend if she's referring to him and she tells me:"all i'm gonna say is... check your cell phone bill and when i've gone out for drinks with her, after she drops me off, I don't know where she goes." I bite my tongue until we get home and I question her about him. We get into a fight... you know the one... i'm jealous, i'm paranoid, over protective, etc. She starts packing her bags and admits that there was some flirting going on, but that's it. She unpacks and we go to bed. Next day she admits calling him one time (the night she came home and expressed her love to me). I ask her repeatedly, have you ever met up with him after work for drinks or anything... NO. Have you called him more than once... NO.

    2 days later I get my cell phone bill. Between January 25 and Feb. 6, she called/he called 23 times. We fight. It's very hurtful. Looking back, she called him while we were out a different time watching my friends band... while we were together. She called him while at work so no one would see them talking face to face, they'd talk on the cell phones. Some calls were at 1,2,3 am. She swears to me that it was stupid, she got scared and ended it Feb. 10... the day he got fired... different story. I kept questioning whether they had ever been physical and she was always adimant that they had not, nor had they ever met outside of work... it was just talking and flirting. She even encouraged me to call him. I said, "For all I know, you called him tonight to match your stories and he's waiting for me to call. Why don't you call him while i'm secretly on the other line and we'll see what happens". She would not. To the point that she once again, packed her bags... but she didn't leave.

    Almost done guys, sorry.
    The next day, I decided to take her up on her offer... I called him. I told him that if he was honest with me, he'd never hear from me again... but, if he wasn't, he will have made an enemy for life... and she wasn't worth having me for an enemy I asked him when the last time they talked was. Last night she told me you found out. Have you ever met outside of work? Yes, once for drinks at a bar only a mile from my house. Had they ever been intimate... NO! He swore they hadn't. I came home and told her. She asked what he said and I told her, "you know what he told me. So, what did he tell me?" She wouldn't admit nothing!!! "Did he tell you we phucked?" Why would he tell me that, I say. Finally she admits to having drinks one night.

    I gave her so many opportunities to come clean and tell me the truth, and she never did. How could she look me in the eyes so lovingly, so honestly, so sincere... and lie!!! Over and over again. I still don't know what to believe about the intimacy. I want to believe that they weren't, but she lied about everything else. Is she still lying? It's consuming every waking moment for the last week. I have to know. She's been very apologetic and swears that if I let her make it up to me, she'll spend the rest of her life regaining my trust.

    Folks, i've given her everything. She's moved into my home. I take care of her son every night. I shower her with gifts. I've given her my heart and soul. My ex is moving my kids to Florida(I live in Indy) at the end of the month and it's going to devastate me. Now, more than ever, I needed her and she's catering to someone else's needs. How can I forgive her? How can I trust her again? The only reason i'm even considering trying to make this work is because when we're good, we're great. She's my best friend. She's always adored me... everyone always says they get tired of hearing her sing my praises. Our kids love each other and they love us. She's been bugging me for 2 years to marry her... but i'm scared of marriage. My ex really scarred me with what she put me through, and this brings it all back. She knew how badly i'd been hurt in the past, and she betrayed me too. I was really starting to get comfortable with the thought of marriage again and she picked up on that. She said that it scared her. She's the one who's been bugging me about it.

    I'm so confused right now. My friends are so mad at me for even trying to forgive her. They saw how devastated I was in the past. I do want to get over this. But, I honestly don't know if I can. I'll always wonder if they had sex. I'll always wonder if she's being honest. I'm crushed. I'm shattered. I'm worn. Thanks for reading. I'm sorry it was sooo long. Please, you made it this far... any advice?
    Thanks.

     
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    Old 03-02-2005, 06:47 PM   #2
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    Smile Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    i would give anything to have my husband give me the chance to forgive him but i'm not that lucky and I honestly feel like I could trust him with no second thought, completely and never question him or wonder why he's late or anything like that, but like I said I'm not that lucky! I guess it's what you feel that is the only answer we can give you if your not married give her a second chance BUT NOT A THIRD!! everyone I know keeps telling me he's not worth it your to good for him, but they weren't in the relationship, and I think I would take him back, but only once, and he would have to work real hard to show me that I can trust him even though I do I wouldn't tell him that, so I say second chace is OK if you want it. BUT ONLY IF YOU WANT IT!! It's up to you!!!

     
    Old 03-02-2005, 07:04 PM   #3
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    I agree a second chance is Ok to give, just not a third.

    As far as how to put to rest the nagging 'is she lying' feelings, I'm stumped for a response for that.
    But if you give her this last chance, and mean it that it'll be her last chance, why not just let it go, give her the benefit of the doubt, until and unless you get concrete proof that something more happened. Should that day come, you can walk away knowing you gave it your best. What more can one person give anyone else?

    But if you really think you will ALWAYS be left wondering, and won't get past those thoughts, then I'd say the relationship is even worth the attempt to salvage.

     
    Old 03-02-2005, 07:23 PM   #4
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    I say "oh heck no!!!" You will never ever ever be able to trust her again. Look at what she did, look at how far she went. OMG wake up! This girl is just hanging on to you until something supposibly better comes along. She knows she has it made with you but still wants her "fun" life. I did this myself! My dumb husband....that's right husband...who I talked into marriage..gave me everything..I could come and go as I wanted so I pushed it further and further, I flirted and even kissed another guy...came close to a sexual encounter. I guess I was making up for what I thought was lost time...in fact I was just happy. I thought i was but I wasn't. It snowballs and as long as there is alcohol that plays a role in your relationship things will NEVER be secure. It's always a good excuse huh? plus the big thing is she LIED to you. Sounds like she does that alot. Don't be a fool..you probably do deserve better and her threatening to leave is probably just that....a threat. She knows you will stop her. You may have to lose her and tell her to leave that you are not playing her game. PUt your foot down in stone. She'll soon realize that she better fly right. She's a mother and does not need to be out for drinks. She needs to be home being responsible. I wish you luck. You have a TON of proof.....she needs to hit the road. Trust will NEVER really be there again, she broke it. Lier. Lier. Lier. Not good guy. Good luck....you'll need it.

     
    Old 03-02-2005, 07:24 PM   #5
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    Hi...wow, so sorry to hear all you've gone through and all you're going through still. Trust is a difficult thing to regain once it's lost. Especially since you've been through this once before. I would suggest, obviously, before even considering marriage, give it time and see how you feel, and what she does to regain your trust. Maybe you could even consider some type of couples counselling. I just can't see beginning a marriage unless the issues are resolved first. If you think there are qualities in this relationship that bring you true love and happiness, then you have to decide if they are enough to overcome the doubts and hurt you're feeling right now. You need time to decide that because you don't know right now if you can get past this. Now is the time that you'll see if she's truly being honest about redeeming herself and doing all she can to work through this with you. I would just be very watchful and careful until you feel secure and trusting again. I hope this all works out for you. Let us know how you're doing.

     
    Old 03-02-2005, 07:25 PM   #6
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    Thanks for the responses. This really isn't her first screw up. When we first got together, about 2 months into it, she got back with her ex for a night. I found out about it and she said it made her realize that it was over between them and I was the one for her . At the time, to be honest, I was having fun with her and didn't see us getting as involved as we have gotten. So I forgave her. About 18 months ago, she went about 4 months without working so I was supporting her and her son, as well as child support and mortgage/car/utilitieties, etc. I was stressed out about money and probably complaining a bit much, but I caught her sneaking my atm card and taking money, which I didn't have out of my bank account. I keep forgiving her and believing in her and finding reasons to justify her actions and every time, she breaks my heart, loses my trust which makes me question my own judgement. I am a fool. I know it. I just want this to work so badly. She really is great to me when she wants to be and now, she's begging me not to kick her out of my life. I'm just so scared that she's staying with me out of convenience. She's got nowhere to go. I'd feel so guilty kicking her son out. It's not his fault. He's in a great school system and she'd probably have to move in with her great aunt if they left, who lives in a pretty undesireable part of town. I'm to good of a guy... I really am. Everyone tells me that. I don't deserve any of this. My ex has even apologized on a couple of occasions for putting me through what I went through. I really am a good guy. That's why I don't understand why I keep being betrayed. I've only loved 3 women in my lifetime (been in my share of relationships), but only 3 have captured my heart. All 3 of them betrayed me and broke my heart. I am a broken man. All 3 have taken a part of my soul with them and have made it so difficult for me to trust. I hate it. I'm not an insecure person, but I'm becoming one.

    How long do you think it's okay to ask her questions to reassure myself? She's already getting tired of the questions, but when I start thinking about it, I feel like I have to ask. I just don't understand. During that time, she was telling me constantly how much she loved me. She'd call during breaks to tell me she missed me. Then she goes out with some guy drinking and climbs into bed with me as if nothing happened. I just don't understand.

    Last edited by edved2001; 03-02-2005 at 07:29 PM.

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 05:45 AM   #7
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    I know you don't want to hear this, but in this day and age when one partner is cheating on the other you also have to consider whether to be concerned about getting an STD.
    To me it is the worst part of cheating - that someone who says they love you is out risking YOUR life with not just with someone else, but with all the someone else's the person they slept with slept with etc.
    If she hasn't, she'll deny it. If she has she'll still deny it.
    The worst thing of all in a situation like yours is not knowing.
    If your gut instinct is telling you that she has cheated I'd get down to the doctor for a test or two just to be on the safe side.

    You ask how long to ask questions. I'd stop.
    You already know that she'll lie. But if you haven't decided to end it either, I'd probably start doing some checking up on her. Sad that you have to, but if you choose to stay with her it's your health/life we're talking about also....

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 06:15 AM   #8
    edved2001
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ruth6:11

    You ask how long to ask questions. I'd stop.
    You already know that she'll lie. But if you haven't decided to end it either, I'd probably start doing some checking up on her. Sad that you have to, but if you choose to stay with her it's your health/life we're talking about also....
    Hi Ruth,
    Yeah, i've thought about that as well. I just pray that she's not so selfish as to risk infecting me with anything. That's actually one of the reasons she gave me for "not doing anything stupid." She swore on her son and her great aunt(her two most beloved people in the world), that she didn't do anything... but, my ex-wife swore on my children that she hadn't either, well after the fact that I new for a fact she had. I hate this. If she's out for 5 minutes longer than she's supposed to be, I start panicking. I'm not like that at all. Now, she's doing everything to reassure me... such as showing me her time sheet from work, calling right when she gets out of work, etc.

    I know I shouldn't, I really do. But i'm going to try to forgive her one last time. One more lie, no matter how small.... and i'm out. She really is trying to make things better, so i'm going to try to enjoy the moment. I'm going to start concentrating on myself now and make the best out of life. If she wants to ride along she can... if not, she can get the [email protected]#k out!!!

    I do worry about when i'm out and a woman who I find attractive starts pursuing me. How am I going to react? I'm a firm believer in not putting myself in any situation that can get me in trouble. One of the things that's always bothered me about her is that, like I said, she's a very attractive woman. She knows it and she likes the attention. She dresses very sexy, not trashy, but sexy. She loves the attention. It's like she's always trying to entice people... just the way she carries herself. It's classy and elegant, yet sexy and erotic... does that make sense? She's 26, what's going to happen when she's 40 and some 20 something starts hitting on her? Is she going to try to see if she can seduce him? Oh well, like I said... it's all about me now, if she wants to ride along, she's got a lot of a$$ kissing to do. I'm watching and I won't be made a fool of again. Thanks for listening to me rant... once again

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 06:16 AM   #9
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    oh I say no third chances! FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU, FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME!!!

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 06:35 AM   #10
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    Wait a minute, wait a minute,,,,,I am going to take a totally different approach here. You have two choices: (1) you can't get over this and you break it off or (2), you forgive her and move on with your relationship.

    You have no real proof that she slept with this man. Yeah,,,she had a drink with him and was flirting, and that's why I am sure she feels guilty. Is it something she shoudn't have done? Absolutely. Should you be bothered by it? Yes. But now that it's happened, YOU have to make a choice.

    If you feel deep down in your heart that you cannot and will not ever forgive her, LET HER GO. Don't torture with questions day after day after day that you have already asked her over and over again. You will just **** her off and make yourself crazy. No body likes to get the third degree and be pestered by the same questions again and again and again,,,,,,I guess my question to you is this: When you ask these questions (that she has already answered I am sure at least 100 times,,,,) what answers are you looking for? And when you get an answer, are you going to believe her? Regardless what her answers are, will you ever take them for what they are? Asking her over and over again is not going to get either of you anywhere.

    Don't torture her or yourself. You have to make the decision whether you can move on past this, or not.

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 06:57 AM   #11
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by susieq0726
    Wait a minute, wait a minute,,,,,I am going to take a totally different approach here. You have two choices: (1) you can't get over this and you break it off or (2), you forgive her and move on with your relationship.

    You have no real proof that she slept with this man. Yeah,,,she had a drink with him and was flirting, and that's why I am sure she feels guilty. Is it something she shoudn't have done? Absolutely. Should you be bothered by it? Yes. But now that it's happened, YOU have to make a choice.

    If you feel deep down in your heart that you cannot and will not ever forgive her, LET HER GO. Don't torture with questions day after day after day that you have already asked her over and over again. You will just **** her off and make yourself crazy. No body likes to get the third degree and be pestered by the same questions again and again and again,,,,,,I guess my question to you is this: When you ask these questions (that she has already answered I am sure at least 100 times,,,,) what answers are you looking for? And when you get an answer, are you going to believe her? Regardless what her answers are, will you ever take them for what they are? Asking her over and over again is not going to get either of you anywhere.

    Don't torture her or yourself. You have to make the decision whether you can move on past this, or not.
    Yeah, you're absolutely right. More than the accusatory questions, it's questions of why, and how could you do this? It was very hurtful. The day before her sons birthday, I had my kids for the weekend and I was making arrangements for his party, as well as taking care of all 3 kids. She slept until 3pm. I figured she was wore out from working all week, but the night before she was on the phone with him from 2:30am until 3:15am. Don't know what time she got in. She'd call me from work and immediately after, call him. Like I mentioned, she called him while we were together.. one for 8 minutes and once for 11. I remeber her going to the bathroom thinking, "where the heck is she at?". She was on the phone. Earlier that day she was telling me about this "adorable" Coach purse she saw. I went and bought it for her and surprized her with it that night. It just hurts. I don't understand... that's why I keep asking, I want to understand.

    You're right though. I haven't mentioned it for 2 days now. I'll try hard to get over it.
    Thanks.

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 07:10 AM   #12
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    It stings right now I am sure. And you are right - You are really not looking for the "details" when you ask these questions, you are really asking "why" and "how could you". Been there done that. I went through the SAME thing you are going through yrs ago with a boyfriend I had before I met and married my husband.
    We were together for 6 yrs and he cheated on me. The difference in my situation is the fact that he DID actually cheat and I had proof. He admitted as well.
    We ended up back together and all I did was torture him. I questioned him everyday about the relationship and the why's and how comes and everything else. All it did was make him mad and me nuts. After three months of torture I knew I would never get over it and I cared too much about him to continue in a relationship I knew would never go any further. I broke it off, and believe it or not, we are friends.
    People in our lives do things to hurt us as we do things that hurt them. You just have to ask yourself "What's my breaking point" and "What things are forgivable and which are not"?
    I have been married to my soul mate and best friend for 10 yrs now and the both of us have done things to each other that have hurt our feelings - It happens - We are human! But we forgive, get over it and move on.
    Time is a great healer. I wouldn't be so forgiving if it happens again, but in my book, everyone should be considered innocent until proven guilty. If she does it again, I guess that says something about her character.

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 08:09 AM   #13
    jedoz
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    I'm sorry but I've recently lost all trust for people men and women both and to me she sounds like one of those manipulative reachers searching for something better while she still has you in her back pocket.

    In my opinion some women are like parasites and are only really interested in securing themselves a life when their current one isn't good enough for them. You sound like a terrific catch and deserve much better its really too bad how some people are these days. By the way I personally would never even think of having a drink with another guy while in a relationship I only care about the guy I'm with.

    I think my ex fiance fell for the same type of parasitic girl she's in a relationship with his best friend (its about over for them) and she is clawing her way to him and has been for quite some time and since he's the next best thing she doesn't have to look too far.

    O.K maybe I'm being a bit harsh on her but listen to your gut it may be the only thing you/me/we can ever trust fully. The absolute best of luck to you and yours.

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 08:43 AM   #14
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jedoz
    I'm sorry but I've recently lost all trust for people men and women both and to me she sounds like one of those manipulative reachers searching for something better while she still has you in her back pocket.

    In my opinion some women are like parasites and are only really interested in securing themselves a life when their current one isn't good enough for them.
    Thanks for your reply,
    I agree with you. However, I know that you can't change somebody but, I believe that people can change themselves. This is my dilema. Is she serious now? Did she need to find out if she could "fall" for somebody else? Does she now truly realize what she's got with me? I'm hopeful, but terrified. I told her; "don't make me regret this". She promised me that I wouldn't. "I'll spend the rest of my life showing you how much I regret what i've done and regaining your trust". God, I want to believe her. I'm just affraid that if it doesn't work out, i'll never forgive myself.
    Also, I won't lie. I do believe that they had sex. I mean, she knew what he wanted all along. She knew what kind of person he was. I thought she had more self respect than that. I'll never know for sure. I just feel it in my gut... and it's eating away at me. Every day gets a bit easier, but every day the thought finds a way to creep into my head.
    Ya know, the crazy thing is; this past summer, when I offered her the job. I didn't know if I wanted this relationship, so it was kind of my way of easing the guilt of making her and her son leave if I decided this isn't what I really wanted. Why now do I want her more than ever?

     
    Old 03-03-2005, 11:57 AM   #15
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    Re: Can this be salvaged? (long) I ache...

    cause you feel like she doesn't want you, that drives all of use crazy. thats what hurts so much. it makes you think your not good enough, and about what else you could have done, but the truth is IT'S NOT YOU THAT HAS THE PROBLEM, and it's been three weeks for me and i stiil can't see it,and he did cheat, i know that.

     
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