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pendulum 11-16-2007 02:17 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=pendulum;3309273]Hi Amy

Yes, I read that dialogue many years ago. While I was typing here, I was reminded of it a few times. I knew that was one of my sources and I even thought about mentioning Plato, but somehow I dropped the idea, maybe because I feared I would sound pedantic. Anyway, that was a good observation of yours. Thanks.

Pend[/QUOTE]

Hi Amy again

I have got to add a couple of things. First, I don't think you are a pedant just because you mentioned Plato. Actually, the fact that you mentioned him was a relief to me: it showed that my fears were unfounded.

Second, I seem to lean towards Reich rather than towards Plato. I believe we all have an orgamisc potential to realize. You can realize it through various ways that do not include sex (sublimation), but the best way of doing it is plain to see (we need a partner). I am not sure if this has to do with love... Actually, I don't even know what love is all about. Perhaps love is only about idealization.

Pend

brook65 11-16-2007 03:23 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=xanadu2;3309341]Hi Folks,

So my life choices have been:

Either attaining peace and profound joy through the many wonderful aspects of Nature. :angel:

Or, surrendering to popular opinion to turn my back on them to a greater or lesser degree for the sake of a dubious relationship, which could well turn out to be seriously flawed. Im in the process of discovering why available relationships always seem to be seriously flawed or very risky, to the point where I very seldom fall in love.

I think most people here have no doubt at all that the single state unquestionably wins hands down over a bad relationship.[/QUOTE]


Hi Xanadu

Your living proof that we as humans can be happy in singlehood, I know when I left my last partner to be single (not alone) I was much happier that way, then I ever was in that relationship.

Your life sounds spiritual and happy, and I only wonder if one of the reasons you question being single at your age is probably down to peoples opinion in everyday life. You are alone as in not in a romantic relationship, but your not lonely.

I agree with the poster who says that love can come at any age aswell, my friends grandad is getting married to a lady he shares a carehome with - he's 82 and if you see them together they are like teenagers:D

Smartpants 11-16-2007 04:33 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
Wow, what a thread. I am one of those people that strongly believes I don't need a man to be complete/whole/happy. I've had this convesration with many people before and really have a problem when people tell me that one NEEDS a husband to be complete. I think that is ridiculous. Although I date and look for people to hang out with, I'm very clear that I'm not looking for a soulmate/husband/etc. I'm very independent, enjoy my time by myself and really can't imagine/don't think I would enjoy having someone around all the time (i.e being married or living together). As many others have already said, you should be happy and complete in yourself before you go looking for someone else. Expecting someone else to complete you is sad, I think.

Also, to the person who suggested my life (as a single) is 100 times less meaningful than that of someone married/with a family, I strongly disagree again! And agree with the poster who followed your post saying that is just insulting!!

I liked the quote someone posted, "better alone than badly accompanied." I see/hear about soooo many people in bad relationships, so if that is seeking "wholeness", ill stay un-whole!

bulletproof 11-16-2007 06:14 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
I never deny that I would like to have a boyfriend and ultimately someone that I'm with for life, if there is such a thing. But I value my own life enough that I'm not going to waste my time worrying about it. When I say choose to be happy, that means I have a choice in my speech and my actions how I portray myself to the world. It's been studied numerous times that if you smile when you feel bad, the emotions will follow the action. We do have control over how we feel, even though it is not an easy thing to achieve.

I agree with the poster who said that we should all be grateful for what we have right now. It's taken for granted, particularly in a country like the US where everything is in such abundance. People who are worried about where their next meal is coming from don't sit around and moan about whether they're single. When we focus on what we don't have, we are never happy. And I don't think it's because I was born with some special resilience- it's the way I've chosen to live because I tried the wallowing bit, and it doesn't work out all that well.

Larrylou'smom 11-16-2007 06:34 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=Smartpants;3309411]Also, to the person who suggested my life (as a single) is 100 times less meaningful than that of someone married/with a family, I strongly disagree again! And agree with the poster who followed your post saying that is just insulting!!

[/QUOTE]

Again, you misunderstood me, as seems to always happen. I am always being misunderstood, which is one of the greatest frustrations that comes from being and feeling so alone, is never having anyone ever understand what I'm trying to say, which can make you feel more isolated than you can ever possibly imagine.

What my point was, was that of course I think your life has just as much meaning as you think and choose to believe it does, and it's all relative. I didn't say that *I* feel that if you aren't married, your life has no meaning. I said society has a large tendancy to put more meaning on the lives of people who have families who depend on them than they do on the lives of people who are alone and have no one who waits at home for them. Then I gave that survey from Psychology Today as evidence, but that was ignored.

I think we all have the tendancy to categorize and judge. Working moms tend to think stay at home moms aren't as ambitious or smart, and stay at home moms tend to think working moms aren't as devoted to their kids. This of course is a sweeping generalization, but generally speaking, and we must speak in generalizations since we don't share common experiences, the feud between working moms and stay at home moms goes on. I say this mainly because of a Dr. Phil episode I saw last year on the topic, and how particularly mean spirited the stay at home moms, one especially, seemed toward the working moms. She doesn't represent every stay at home mom of course, she's probably not even in the majority, but I don't think she's the only one, either.

I think it all comes down to how you feel and where you place your priorities. I have always said, many times on these boards and continue to say, alone sucks, but bad company is worse. This is a more coloquial way of stating the thought you liked so much. I far prefer being single to being badly mated. But I think it's an individual thing, and all I'm saying is I don't like to see people who ache to love someone being treated as though they have some kind of disease. If you love being single, if you're happy being single, I think that's totally great!! It's wonderful. But if someone else can't seem to find that happiness alone, I don't think they should be treated like they are flawed or dysfunctional, that's really all I'm saying. There are two sides to the coin. Speaking strictly for myself, I've had no one to talk to when I was feeling down and had to keep it all inside, and I've had someone to talk to when I was hurt or down who lifted my spirits, I've gone to bed alone, and I've gone to bed wrapped in the arms of someone I loved very much. I've been so sexually frustrated it literally, physically hurts, and I've had someone to kiss and hold. I've watched a beautiful sunset alone, and I've watched a beautiful sunset holding the hand of a sweet man I loved. I've taken walks, seen movies, concerts and plays alone, and with a best friend that I had stimulating interesting conversations with afterward. I've sat on the couch and watched tv and eaten dinner alone, and I've cuddled on the couch and eaten dinner with someone who warmed my heart and soul and curled my toes. All I'm saying is, for me, the second ones were sooooooooooooooo much better. There's really nothing that I could do or have done, no traveling I have done, no accomplishments, achievements that I have made alone that have given me anywhere near the peace, satisfaction, or, forgive me, "'wholeness" as just being with someone who gets me, who I can really talk to and who I love and I believed loved me. That's just me. If it's not you, more power to you, but that is just me, not because that's who I've chosen to be, but because that's just me. Please don't stone me for that.

dma11663 11-16-2007 07:47 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
I truly believe that Everyone one of us wants a special someone in our life. To deny that is being untruthful to ourselves. We don't need husband/wives. However, it is so nice to meet a special someone to share things with. Not live with, not do everything with. It is only humanly natural to want that closeness with someone.........special of course.

I'm sorry.......human nature. That is how it is. I will probably get clubbed by many for this but it is natural for men and women to want a special person to do/share things with. Not marriage or living together...just closeness.

bulletproof 11-16-2007 07:55 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
I don't see why you would get clubbed for saying that we want someone in our lives. Nothing wrong with that. I just refuse to let that want dictate whether or not I'm going to be happy on a daily basis. I believe that humans are social creatures (pack animals) so I think this also applies to needing companionship of the non-romantic sort, also, which a lot of lonely people think a mate will fulfill. Balance is important in life.

Larrylou'smom 11-16-2007 08:16 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=dma11663;3309647]I truly believe that Everyone one of us wants a special someone in our life. To deny that is being untruthful to ourselves. We don't need husband/wives. However, it is so nice to meet a special someone to share things with. Not live with, not do everything with. It is only humanly natural to want that closeness with someone.........special of course.

I'm sorry.......human nature. That is how it is. I will probably get clubbed by many for this but it is natural for men and women to want a special person to do/share things with. Not marriage or living together...just closeness.[/QUOTE]

I think there's a lot of evidence to support this as well. I know how you feel, though, I feel a bit "clubbed" too for simply saying I need someone. It seems to be very politically incorrect these days to say you need someone special in your life. I can see how some people wouldn't want to live with someone, how they would like their space and to do things the way they want to do them in their own house but to have one special person to share with. Of course, I'm old fashioned in that respect and I still believe in marriage, so that would be an ideal for me.

Of course you can't expect that one person to be your end all and be all. That's the best way in the world to chase them off for good!! You don't want to make them solely responsible for all your security and happiness. But I agree, I think everyone with a heart and who's honest will admit that there's a kind of a hole, how big depends on how sentimental and sensitive and quixotic a person you are, but a hole that can only be filled by a romantic, love relationship with one special person you can call yours. Just my opinion. Of course you do your best to find the happiness that every day affords you, no matter what form it takes. Happiness can be where you find it, or even where you make it. It just gets harder as you get older. I was actually pretty good at it when I was in my 20s, Then after my break up in my 30s, it was harder, but I still was reallya ble to find bliss and rejoice in the good times life brought. But when I found out my ex had married and who he married, I think that's when something kind of broke in me that I haven't really been able to fix. And being over 40 now and not having very good experiences romantically since then, it's become increasingly difficult to care about a life that doesn't include love. It's much more of a challenge, as I think happens sometimes with some people, under certain circumstances.

dma11663 11-16-2007 08:22 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
yes...I agree LarryLou's Mom. I think everyone of us deep down inside wants a special someone. That said...I also agree that you need balance. You need to compliment each other and that doesn't mean not having your space or own life. It could be great. There are many of us that enjoy our friend time, family time, etc. that combined with a special someone........to be close/intimate with and experience things with would be grand.

A hole is the right way to describe it. No matter how happy you are with yourself...or how much you love yourself..there is something missing a bit.

amy2705 11-16-2007 08:52 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=Larrylou'smom;3309548] I said society has a large tendancy to put more meaning on the lives of people who have families who depend on them than they do on the lives of people who are alone and have no one who waits at home for them. [/QUOTE]

I think that is so true. I remember years ago I had a job and I was leaving to go back to school and was in the process of training the new person. She'd been there about 6 weeks when the holiday bonuses came in. Imagine my utter shock when she got a bigger holiday bonus! I'd worked my butt off and they'd asked me to stay, etc. So I asked whether they were unhappy with my work, etc? How else to explain why my replacement who'd been there 6 weeks was getting a better bonus? Here's the answer I got: she's got a family and you're a single. That made me feel pretty special! The work I'd done didn't count. The time I put in didn't count. The results I got didn't count. She was rewarded by the company for having a family and not her work quality or time put in! I felt punished for being single. This is just one example, but it hurts when stuff like that plays out over and over. It's like a constant message saying "you'd be rewarded and valued more if you were married with kids." In a way, I think that for me personally, it made me more determined than ever to push back and demand to be valued for me and not judged according to marital / family status. Frankly, I feel discriminated against! And I think for me, it drives me to feel a bit of contempt toward the idea that you must have a partner. Like so many others have said - better single than miserably partnered. It really gets to me to think that at WORK, I would have gotten a better [U]professional [/U]reward if I'd been unhappily married! But then at my current job, loads of the women don't wear wedding/engagement rings out of fear that if they do they'll be held back (i.e. won't get brought into projects, promoted, etc ...) because there's an assumption you'll have kids and take mat leave! You never hear the professional women there talk about husbands or kids. Never. The general feeling there is that would be the professional kiss of death. Sorry for ranting ... it just seems like there is really no winning for women when it comes to social expectations re. marriage/kids! But my point was really that I agree with you - a lot of the time I feel like there's this message that you're worth less if you're single than if you're married. In the news, for example, if there's an accident, it's always presented as more tragic if a wife or mother is hurt/killed. You never see a headline that says "Single woman with no husband or kids killed" -- it seems like the tragedy there would be that the person died before having a husband/kids ... not the actual loss of their life. I think I'll stop before I get even more worked up about this!

brook65 11-16-2007 09:01 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=amy2705;3309752] a lot of the time I feel like there's this message that you're worth less if you're single than if you're married. In the news, for example, if there's an accident, it's always presented as more tragic if a wife or mother is hurt/killed. You never see a headline that says "Single woman with no husband or kids killed" -- it seems like the tragedy there would be that the person died before having a husband/kids ... not the actual loss of their life. /QUOTE]


I don't really know about that way of thinking, cause remember every human being that tracically loses their life - is infact someones child, someones flesh and blood, someones baby:(.

What about children and teenagers that tragically lose their life? their not married, also what about young adults who are yet to marry and have familys? where's the cut off point to where people can think that it is less tragic if someone is killed who is single and doesn't have children.

I think looking at it this way, makes us see that 'every' death is seen as tragic and a waste of a life

dma11663 11-16-2007 09:09 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
Loss of life is tragic...that would be more so. If they happened to be married with children then it would be a double and triple tragedy....first for the loss of life, then for the loss of the spouse and mother.

Society sees things a certain way. Each one of us is individual. Our needs are different. However, we are all human.....human contact/closeness is just natural. I believe this is true for all of us. Whether or not we want to be married/living with spending a lot of time with the significant other is our choice. However, what do we do. Go out, have meaningless sex, release and move on to be loners? I don't think that is what will give us happiness. I'm sorry, I just don't. Something of substance goes further. Something with real meaning lasts longer and gives us happiness.

Larrylou'smom 11-16-2007 09:20 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
Thanks Amy, yeah, that stinks. I recently read an article about how more and more companies are becoming more "family friendly" and doing just what that company did to you, giving perks, more time off, bigger bonuses, to people who are married or have families, sometimes to the exclusion or detriment of the single childless people.

I just recall one news story I saw recently about a woman who died in a car accident, and the news made such abig deal over the fact that she had just gotten married. They interviewed her new groom, his family, her friends and how she was so excited to start on this new life, and how she was so excited to be a wife and now she'll never get to be one, etc. They just really played up the angle that her death was so tragic because she had just gotten married. Trust me people, it's not just in my head, that attitude is out there. You have to really focus to turn a blind eye to it, especially if you're the kind of woman whose uterus skips a beat every time you see a baby, like mine does.

amy2705 11-16-2007 09:24 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=brook65;3309776][QUOTE=amy2705;3309752] a lot of the time I feel like there's this message that you're worth less if you're single than if you're married. In the news, for example, if there's an accident, it's always presented as more tragic if a wife or mother is hurt/killed. You never see a headline that says "Single woman with no husband or kids killed" -- it seems like the tragedy there would be that the person died before having a husband/kids ... not the actual loss of their life. /QUOTE]


I don't really know about that way of thinking, cause remember every human being that tracically loses their life - is infact someones child, someones flesh and blood, someones baby:(.

What about children and teenagers that tragically lose their life? their not married, also what about young adults who are yet to marry and have familys? where's the cut off point to where people can think that it is less tragic if someone is killed who is single and doesn't have children.

I think looking at it this way, makes us see that 'every' death is seen as tragic and a waste of a life[/QUOTE]

I agree. I don't think that society ought to hold the view that one loss is more or less tragic than another. I was just observing that in my experience, there is a pretty constant message that you're not as important or as valued if you're single.

pendulum 11-16-2007 09:52 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=amy2705;3309826][QUOTE=brook65;3309776]

I agree. I don't think that society ought to hold the view that one loss is more or less tragic than another. I was just observing that in my experience, there is a pretty constant message that you're not as important or as valued if you're single.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that's true. Indeed celibacy is only valued or required in certain religions. But not every religion demands celibacy. If you want to become a rabbi (Judaism), you must be married and have at least three or four children. The rationale being that a married person will have to go through hardships that a single one or a celibate will never know.

Anyway, I am beginning to view this whole subject from the gender perspective. Correct me, if I am wrong. By the way, it seems that I am the only man left taking part on this thread. Somehow I feel inadequate, like before. But let me go on...

When you hear a lady saying that she doesn't need a man or a partner to be happy or to be whole, you're apt to look up to her in admiration: "Wow, that's a woman of character. She is strong. She is independent." Maybe someone will think that she is somewhat bitter, but in general the feeling is of approval or admiration. Now, if a man comes to the spotlight and says "I can live alone. I don't need a woman... etc, etc", it's quite a different effect. First, the feeling is that he is a liar. Then, he might be gay, or not? Or worst, a womanizer? It is rarely a positive feeling, not even from other men.

So the bottomline is: only a man (Jobim, Pendulum, etc) is expected to say that it is impossible to be happy alone. For a woman, there are different factors at stake, and happiness for her is a more complex object.

brook65 11-16-2007 10:07 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
Pend - don't know what happened there:confused: they are Amys words you quoted, not Mine:confused:

pendulum 11-16-2007 10:29 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=brook65;3309894]Pend - don't know what happened there:confused: they are Amys words you quoted, not Mine:confused:[/QUOTE]

Oh, sorry. What a mess did I make? Did I hurt anyone? I hope not. :)

bulletproof 11-16-2007 11:12 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
I think it's sad that this is now turning into a massive generalization about how single people are put-upon by society and the media. That's not based in fact. The examples cited here are noticed because those watching are more sensitive to this and looking for it. I can name equally as many counter-examples of how married people, and people with children (some of whom are also single), get the shaft at work and by stereotyping media.

The fact is that your life is what it is, make the best of it, and don't be a victim. Learn to appreciate what you have. Want a mate if that's what you want, but stop saying that people who don't are just in denial or lying. And I am saying this from the perspective of someone who *does* want to be with someone.

brook65 11-16-2007 11:45 AM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
[QUOTE=bulletproof;3309991

The fact is that your life is what it is, make the best of it, and don't be a victim. Learn to appreciate what you have. Want a mate if that's what you want, but stop saying that people who don't are just in denial or lying. And I am saying this from the perspective of someone who *does* want to be with someone.[/QUOTE]

I agree, it's about having an open mind about other peoples true choices, and what makes others happy:)

lostsoul12 11-16-2007 12:37 PM

Re: Long-term single Ive found the answer!
 
wow, what an interesting thread ;)

well I don't have much to say but have been browsing a lot on this topic
Larrylou'smom I have paid close attention to everything you have posted and like always I agree with you more than 100% your words always touch my soul and hit the real truth behind what I feel

For me, being single sucks. I hate it. Yeah it does have some advatages but the negative aspects for me over rule those. This cliches of "dicovering yourself, being around friends and family, volunteering, etc" can only go so far.

Eventually, the reality comes back when you come home at the end of the day to another empty home, emty bed, empty dining table, another meal all alone, living in four closed walls all alone and the only voice you hear is yours. Besides that even outside of the house I am flashed with being exposed to couples, hearing love songs on the radio/tv, watching mothers take there children to the park on a nice sunny day, work parties that I chose not to go to because everyone has a partner to take along with them, etc. This list can just go on forever. I guess some people are stronger and able to some how discover happiness being alone but I can't. All I discover is depression, exreme isolation,tears, day after day. ...and yes...Larrylou'smom everytime I see a baby, or even hear a baby's cry the same feeling happens to me...and at the end of that feeling I remember my singlehood, childless, loveless, marriageless, sexless status.


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