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  • short men = attractive women?

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    Old 04-20-2003, 06:58 AM   #1
    rk3689
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    Post short men = attractive women?

    i've never posted on one of these boards before, i was attracted to this one when i saw a post with a similar topic.

    i'm in my mid-30's, i have two full-time professional jobs (in the law enforcement and counseling fields), and am a straight-A college student.

    the bottom line is: I'VE NEVER HAD A DATE OR GIRLFRIEND IN MY LIFE.

    in high school and beyond, in my early adulthood, i was always rejected by attractive women (i'm not talking about supermodels, just regular girls).

    i've gone through periods of bodybuilding, being in good shape/being in bad shape, i've worn expensive clothes, i've had an expensive car, played guitar, competed in martial arts, worn a badge and gun and never, not once, did i ever feel the vibe that a woman found me attractive.

    i eventually got used to this, and convinced myself that this was preferable, that being involved with a woman would be more trouble than it was worth.

    however, i could never figure out WHY nothing i did seemed to work with women - especially when i saw friends and colleagues having no shortage of female companionship.

    mind you, some of these men were hideously ugly, grossly overweight, derelict in pre-existing child support payments, in some cases possessing of bad body odor, and one in particular would refer to his girlfriend on the phone as a b*tch or c*nt (and how he couldn't wait to get home so she could s*ck his d*ck) on the phone AFTER I HAD ANSWERED THE PHONE AND HANDED IT TO HIM - this means that the woman was AWARE THAT ANOTHER MAN WAS PRESENT when he was speaking to her this way.

    i am, as i said, now in my mid-30's. i decided over the last year to try to meet a woman and have run against the same brick walls as before.

    thanks to the internet, i was able to scan singles sites, and sites dedicated to this sort of thing, and one thing became apparent - the vast, vast, vast majority of women are seeking TALL(er) men - i'm 5'4".

    believe me when i say that i never presumed height to be a problem, it really never crossed my mind - as i said, i always figured my deficit had to do with other things, and i eventually put the whole idea to rest altogether. so, there hasn't really been a "short man's syndrome" hang-up with me.

    i mentioned seeing friends being successful in relationships, even though they appeared patently unfit. the one big difference between them and me? yes, they are tall.

    and yes, i do state that i desire a reasonably attractive woman. i guess it could be said that this is superficial on my part, but i am an extremely hard-working man, i have suffered enormous rejection in my life, and i do not believe that i "have no right" to standards simply because i am short.

    i have been undergoing therapy for this, and my (female) doctor tells me i am mistaken in believing that height is an issue, and that i could "just look for short girls"

    however, as i said, i am an intelligent man. i cannot disregard the evidence i have seen before me - that WOMEN WANT A TALL MAN. i reject the "just go after short girls" idea, because my research has shown me that ALL women want the tallest man possible - at least attractive women. i feel that this theory relegates me to the "back of the bus", or "last in line" - a less-desired leftover, but definitely never a "first choice".

    my therapist also used the tactic of pointing out: "look at tom cruise, billy joel, g.w. bush" - o.k., so when i win a grammy, oscar, or presidency i'll be "good enough" for consideration.

    i am not willing to accept "second class" status under any circumstance. basically, if i have no choice,if this is my fate predetermined by birth, i would really prefer to once again stuff the idea of relationships rather than suffer this indignity.

    i do apologize for the long post, but this may possibly be the only one i ever submit.

    i am asking for honest responses from females - please let me know if my thinking is correct here. and please, don't try to placate with "i like short guys, i'm 5'6" he's 5'8"" answers - be completely honest, my time is valuable and this is a serious request.

    thank you for your time.

     
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    Old 04-20-2003, 02:06 PM   #2
    ffsmith
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    No your thinking is not correct.
    But because that is the way you are thinking, you should probably snuff the idea.
    The real question is, what would it take to change your thinking?


    [This message has been edited by ffsmith (edited 04-20-2003).]

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 03:02 PM   #3
    rk3689
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    ffsmith,

    thank you for your response, and i hope you're correct that i'm wrong.

    but if i am wrong, how does that explain the overwhelming amount of input to the contrary (that for the most part - only the taller need apply)? and the complete lack of any otherwise (that short men are preferred over tall)?

    thanks again

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 06:44 PM   #4
    sprout
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    rk,

    Perhaps I am a rarity. You state that your research indicates that "ALL" attractive women prefer to have the tallest man possible. To this, I would have to question just which attractive women you have relied upon for this conclusion.

    I am an attractive woman according to many people. I can honestly say that height has NEVER been a determining factor when choosing a partner. I will go one step further to state that I will never allow myself to limit my options in such a way either.

    There may be other factors involved in your lack of finding a mate that you haven't yet considered. In as much as I do not know you, I cannot say what they could possibly be.

    Perhaps you aren't looking in the right places or interacting in a manner that would be viewed as "open" and/or "welcoming" to the opposite sex. I do hope that you do not just give up before you have explored all of the possibilities. You sound like an intelligent man with much to offer a woman. It just seems as if you haven't found the right woman yet.

    Good luck to you,

    sprout

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 06:45 PM   #5
    sammy_01
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    Ive never posted here before either. But you are right.

    I'm in the same boat as you. Short 5'6, mid 30's, professional, in shape, healthy and women just dont like me.

    I dont settle for any kind of women though, just because I cant get one doesnt mean i have to settle for less than what I want. But i've always known and felt that women do not like me because i'm short.

    I guess its the whole way of womens thinking of thier man has to be strong and be able to take care of them physically and mentally.

    How could a short little guy take care of a women? Well we could, but thats not what they think.

    Like you, I have come to realize that having a women in my life will problably not happen, so Ive devoted myself to myself and having fun.

    I look at all my friends with thier girlfriends or wives, and they have so many problems with them. So sometimes I think i may be the lucky one since I dont have to deal with any of the baggage most women carry. =)



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    Old 04-20-2003, 07:26 PM   #6
    rk3689
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    sprout - what is the size differential between yourself and any man you've been initially attracted to?


    sammy_01 - believe me, i've done the "dedicating myself to myself" thing. the truth is, and you know it, something's missing. to an extent, i agree with your comment on women and their baggage - i counsel a large number of them on my second (full-time) job. but the fact that you're always "last" in desirability department, that there is this huge side of life you will never know, is a very stubborn craw - you know that.

    i'm not trying to be argumentative with anyone here, this just happens to be something i'm really struggling with and so, i'm not pulling any punches.

    thanks

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 07:33 PM   #7
    rk3689
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    sprout - i need to comment on your point of "using a welcoming approach" - i tend to think this refers to the idea that a short man must be a "storyteller", a self-effacing "clown" who "doesn't take himself seriously".

    i have been a law enforcement officer for 16 years. i'm sorry, but i DO take myself seriously. in my world, it's a must.

    i tend to resent the implication that in order to be attractive, a short man should behave in what i consider to be a self-demeaning way. "not taking yourself seriously" is fine when you have a choice, but the fact that i regularly put my life on the line only to not be taken seriously (and expected to accept that role) just irks me - if that makes me selfish, i'm sorry.

    thanks again

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 08:12 PM   #8
    sprout
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    RK,

    It seems as if you have misinterpreted my words to some degree. First, I will answer your question regarding the size differential between myself and the men I have found attractive. The men that I have found attractive have ranged from 2 inches shorter than myself up to 1'1" taller. In as much as I am what others fondly refer to as being "vertically challenged", the occasions in which I have encountered a man that is shorter than me have been few. Height, to me, has no bearing on the suitability of a potential partner for me. It never has been...it never will be.

    As for the possible misinterpretation...I stated:

    "Perhaps you aren't looking in the right places or interacting in a manner that would be viewed as "open" and/or "welcoming" to the opposite sex."

    Those words were not meant to give the impression that I feel you should compromise your dignity by acting in a foolish and/or demeaning manner. I regret that you received that impression. You should take yourself seriously and expect that others will also. I, personally, do not feel others should make a fool of themselves for the sake of acceptance. I find such behavior to be childish, immature, and not desirable in a mate.

    What I meant when I stated that was that *perhaps* (I emphasize the word perhaps) you carry yourself in a manner that isn't perceived as welcoming. You can be welcoming without being foolish and self-demeaning. It all comes down to body language. If you appear to be approachable, it is easier for women to take a step closer. I am sure you realize this as you are an intelligent man that works with people on a daily basis. In your line of work, you rely on the body language of the people you come in contact with to determine if they are a threat to you or are trying to hide something. It is the same when you are interacting with others in a social or personal setting.

    I truly wish you luck in your search for the right woman. I do not know you as a person, so I am only able to offer you my perspective which is based on your words on this board. Whether I have offered anything of value, or not, is something that only you can determine.

    Again, Good Luck To You,

    sprout

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 08:27 PM   #9
    rk3689
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    spprout - thank you for your well-wishes, and i do hope i will come to undertand what an appropriate way of carying myself is.

    i do see validity in your point. i just feel like i'm going in with 2 1/2 strikes against me before i get to the bat.

    i haven't spent much time working on social graces, i've spent most of my time just plain working. i managed to have one free day today, henced this effort.

    my sources for researching this have been, as i said, internet columns, singles/dating sites, and just what i observe on a daily basis (couples walking together with the man head-and-shoulders over the woman).

    does anybody know where the "right places" are? and why do i have to go to the "right places" when others can go anywhere?

    i have more often observed the shorter men (remember, tom cruise doesn't count) walking with women who appeared less attractive - leads me to believe there is a "i'll take whoever will have me" situation going on there.

    as i said initially, i really did go through most of my life without concern to this issue, which is why i'm struggling so deeply with it now.

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 08:53 PM   #10
    sprout
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    RK,

    Try to change your view a bit. I know that is easier said than done, but feeling as if you already have 2 1/2 strikes against you to begin with can easily be conveyed in your actions without you even realizing it. Confidence is a key factor. If you feel comfortable with yourself, it will show.

    You ask about the "right" places. I can tell you that the online dating and singles sites tend to be a disappointment to many people. Dating is frustrating enough as it is. Online services, while they have been successful for some people, often times become places where some people like to play with other peoples emotions...find someone only for a sexual encounter...or various other things that do not lead to a rewarding relationship.

    If you are a religious person, many churches have functions for the single members of the congregation.

    What types of activities do you like to participate in when you are not working? Rock climbing? Biking? Hiking? Bowling? Billiards? Any of these activities could be a key to meeting someone with a similar interest. Explore the options in your area.

    With regards to appearing to be approachable...

    Smile when your eyes meet those of a woman. Try to keep your posture relaxed. In conversations, offer little tidbits that aren't work related and allow others to see pieces of you. These are just some basics. If you already do these things perhaps others here on the boards can offer a few more that I have not listed.

    Hang in there and keep talking. We just might be able to find the key.

    sprout

    [This message has been edited by sprout (edited 04-20-2003).]

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 09:12 PM   #11
    rk3689
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    sprout - o.k., but it's an extremely difficlt situation.

    anybody else with ideas? i know alot of people are reading, i won't attack anybody.

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 09:12 PM   #12
    wowzers
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    dude, i'm 6'6" tall...had 2 girlfriends in my life...and only dated those 2 girls. that's more than zero girls, yes, but still, it's not many at all if the theory of "all attractive girls want tall guys" holds true.

    and also, i know this is lame advice, but believe me, once you get a girlfriend and lose her, you'll miss it for the rest of your life (of course, unless you get another). it's better to never get than to get and lose. the whole "it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all" is retarted in my opinion. i would have much rather never loved, than to have loved and lost. but that's just my reasoning. good luck, man. i used to say that "there is someone out there for everyone," but if you are happy being single, and don't mind not having a girlfriend, then i say more power to you, and i think you might end up living a much less stressful life being single. of course, i've never had an A+ relationship, so i could just be full of BS.

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 09:20 PM   #13
    rk3689
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    wowzer's comments actually have considerable merit. yes, i hve been happy on my own. but as i age, i find loneliness setting in and a longing for...something - don't quite know what that is, but i know it somehow involves a woman.

    i have loved, once, and lost - to a fellow (taller, more "macho") colleague, so i do know that pain.

    i said i have loved and lost, not that i've loved AND been loved and lost - that hasn't happened - i think that's what the "better than..." saying refers to - having been loved at least once is better than never at all.

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 09:54 PM   #14
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    Rk,

    What do you mean by "not so attractive girls", plain janes??? I think most people are just plain janes or joes, few people are attractive. In my opinion, those attractive people do seek out other attractive people, unless there are other positive attributes the person has that outweigh his or her looks, or lack there of. It sounds harsh, but I really think that is the way it works. So I think that if you really want one of those attractive women and not a plain jane, you have to work on your personality... that does not mean acting like a clown or compromising your dignity, but being sexy, confident, charming, charismatic- not subconsciously playing the role of a victim which I feel you are doing- that is not going to attract anyone- wether you're good looking, tall, short, whatever. I think there are several injustices in the world, I think the trick to overcoming them is by not focusing on them but rather being grateful for the things you do have. So what if you are not tall and women do not automatically swoon over you- that does not mean you can't find happiness... I really think you can get what you want- just enhance what you do have and stop lamenting over what you don't have. My very good friend is dating a guy who is about 5'4 or 5'5- and from what she tells me, he is not too big in the "other department" as well. However, she is crazy about him and totally respects and envys him... infact, he is the one that will not committ at this moment. What she is attracted to is his personality- he is confident, has a good job, is intelligent, goes out to expensive places, carries himself well and is a charming man. And don't tell me that why should he do all that, when a good looking tall man can just stand there and do nothing and attract 50 women- you just have to accept it, rather then be angry about it. I think once you do that you will be happier. Women can say the same thing, that it is unfair that attractive, pretty women don't have to lift a finger to get a guy while normal women have to use every trick in the book to find a man. Moral of the story- don't be bitter- everyone can get what they want- they just have to work at it!

    P.S. I forgot to add that another girlfriend of mine who is considered very pretty by today's standards is in a relationship with a guy who is about 5"4 - her height- she is completely into him- he has a great charming, positive personality and she is very physically attracted to him as well, even though his face in my opinion is not very appealing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder- that is my other moral.

    [This message has been edited by nadine (edited 04-21-2003).]

     
    Old 04-20-2003, 10:08 PM   #15
    rk3689
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    therein lies the problem - the having to "try harder" -yes it is unfair. and remember, i've done many of those things (and probably much more) to no avail.

    it also means that if one has to try harder, they were not truly desired in the first place, they had to force their way in.

    you mention that your friend's man is slow to commit - could it be that he is a short man being pursued by a woman he is not truly attracted to?


     
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