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  • trust issues are killing my relationship - need advice, esp. from computer savvy folk

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    Old 09-08-2003, 01:39 AM   #31
    sadgirl03
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    Well, I made it through the weekend without any snooping. I didn't feel tempted to do it, because I knew that it was wrong. I figure that if my bf is hiding anything from me, it will come out sooner or later. Still, though, I am weighed down by doubts and insecurities - which will have to go or my relationship will go. Which path it will take, I don't know yet. Trooper, if you are reading this, I would love to communicate with you via e-mail. Since you have been in my shoes, you definitely know where I am coming from with my conflicting emotions and my problems with snooping. If you're willing to talk via e-mail, let me know and I will give you my address. Thanks again to all who have posted to my questions. Any more advice would be greatly appreciated. God bless everyone!

     
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    Old 09-08-2003, 05:44 AM   #32
    Monday1954
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    Sad Girl - way to go. Getting over any bad behavior pattern we have established is taking it one day at a time - each day that goes by you will find it easier to refrain from the old snooping ways.

    When you find yourself wanting to return to your old ways develope a mantra:

    I will not snoop, it will only upset me.
    He comes home to me everynight and is there when I wake up. I have no reason to doubt that he loves me. I am a lovable person.

    That one was not too good but you can make up your own. Good Luck.

     
    Old 09-08-2003, 07:13 AM   #33
    Trooper
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    Sadgirl,

    I am SO proud of you!!!

    That was a huge step you took by not snooping! You will see that it will get easier not to snoop. That those feelings you have that make you snoop will dwindle down.

    Just make sure you continue to talk to your counselor and your boyfriend about your insecurities. Once they are out on the table, it's easier to start working on breaking them down. And each day you will start to feel better about them. It's kind of like having a deep dark secret that know one knows of. But once it is shared, then that weighted down feeling starts to go away. You don't have to carry it yourself anymore, if you know what I mean.

    I think you made the right choice in working on your snooping habits. I can tell you both love each other very much. It's good that you realize this is a huge problem now before it's too late.

    I would love to e-mail you, but it is against the rules to post your e-mail address online. If you want, we can continue to communicate here.

    Again, I am very proud of you!

    (((HUGS)))
    Trooper

     
    Old 09-08-2003, 11:14 AM   #34
    sadgirl03
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    Help! Though I am not going to snoop, my biggest problem at this point is not asking questions repeatedly of my boyfriend. That has been a continual problem for me for a long time now, even before the snooping. He gets very annoyed and angry when I ask the same questions of him, because he says the only reason why I ask so many things is because I still don't believe him. (about the escort thing) He is right, unfortunately. I will frame the questions one way or another but the underlying motive is to gauge whether or not he's being honest with me. Maybe to catch an inconsistency or to have him finally break? I know this is so bad of me and I should be ashamed of myself. I am.

    I have such a hard time believing what he's telling me, that in a way, I think he is already guilty in my eyes before he even responds. I just sent him an e-mail with a whole bunch of questions. He answered them briefly (to some reassurance on my part) but now, he says that he thinks it's time to take a break. I don't know if that means he wants to break up with me or he just needs some space away from me, like in his own place. He says he will continue looking for an apartment and may even sign a lease. I don't know how to just let this go. I love him and don't want us to break up, but I don't know how to just accept what he's telling me and just move on. To posters, please be kind with any criticism you have for me. I know I deserve it, but it's just so tough.

     
    Old 09-08-2003, 11:55 AM   #35
    MJK98
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    Sadgirl

    although our situation may be different our reactions are very much the same,i was burned once really bad and i have major trust issues, my boyfriend and i just had a major talk last night and he told me that when i am like that he really hates me because i get him so frustrated and he is tired of explaining himself and than he said when im ( normal in his eyes) he said he can't get enough of me...I disect everything he says and hear what i want...im not saying its all my fault because its not sometimes i think he plays on my negatives and i react ...I never thought the day would come that i would do this but i called my doctor and asked him to put me on zoloft for a short time because im just not myself and my thinking process is way off right now..........I told him im depressed and i need some relief...a few people i know have been on this and its helped i dont plan on staying on it for long but i need a brain vacation and i need to stop stressing
    so thats what i am doing to help myself get back to normal and if things dont work out with us well than so be it ill survive
    as for you , i can hear your struggling because this is what your thinking about 24/7 and your driving yourself nuts and your driving him crazy because it just doesnt stop if he answers one question you find another one...I know you dont want to hear this but you probably need a break for you, not him but you
    anyway i wish you luck

     
    Old 09-08-2003, 01:19 PM   #36
    Trooper
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    Sadgirl,
    Tell me what kinds of questions you are asking your boyfriend.

    Sounds like you have pushed him for the last time. If he is stating to you that he is looking for apartments and is prepared to sign a lease, heís well on his way out of this relationship.

    How are you going to feel if he leaves you and moves out but continue to see each other. You wonít have the control you do now. Meaning, no more opportunity to snoop, more opportunity for him to go and visit whatever internet sites he wants to, etc. See my point? And if you react this way now living together, how do you see it improving when you donít live together?

    I think you might have sealed the coffin on this one. Iím sorry but thatís just my opinion.

    Tell me what you are asking him to answer.

    Trooper

     
    Old 09-08-2003, 04:35 PM   #37
    sadgirl03
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    Trooper ~ Actually, it wasn't so much a list of questions that I posed to my boyfriend. It was more of a rambling e-mail about how I worried that he was not telling me the truth because he fears I might think he actually went to visit an escort, rather than just looking at the sites. In my e-mail I mention how he shouldn't fear that that would be my automatic assumption. Basically I told him that I love him no matter what and that I just want to have this burden lifted off of me and of him. I thought if I wrote that (and I really do mean it) he would be more compelled to tell me because my reaction wouldn't be so bad. I did mention a few other things, such as what I perceived as signs (falsely, I guess) that he knew about the sites being on his computer.

    In his response to my fears, he basically just reiterated that he has not visited any escort sites at all. He also addressed some of my other concerns, which helped.

    How do I eliminate these doubts about what he's telling me? It's not unusual for people to deny things even though it's true. Am I crazy for thinking my bf could be like this, even though he's pledged his honesty to me?

     
    Old 09-08-2003, 11:32 PM   #38
    Lindarella
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    I don't think you're crazy. I do think you have trust issues though that, at some point in your life, you'll need to work out with yourself.

    I think you have every right to be suspicious. These sites were in your home town. The likelihood they just "jumped" onto his computer from a pop-up is pretty unlikely....

    And you are right; many people do things that they lie about. It happens every second of the day.

    My concern would be that if he is indeed visiting escort services that you could be being exposed to HIV, HPV or any number of other diseases. You already know that he can and did lie about becoming a member of an adult chat site where (we all know) that cybersex is going on. I'm sure they weren't discussing the weather. Why else would you have to be a member? That in itself is weird behavior.

    I wouldn't press him anymore for he will never confess, even if it's true. I don't really have any advice as to what you should do. I'd be very careful with him though. It just doesn't sound right to me.

    Good luck to you.

     
    Old 09-09-2003, 05:22 AM   #39
    Monday1954
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    Sadgirl, you have never told us what caused your insecurities. Did you have a cheating boyfriend before? Is this your first long term relationship? Did your Dad cheat on your Mom? Your best friends boyfriend cheat on her? Do you think you are not attractive enough, funny enough, smart enough?

    You will have to search yourself to find out the answers to why you are so insecure. It could be that he is not the guy for you, living without trust is like living in hell, you will always be miserable. If this relationship ends (it sounds pretty close if he is moving out) you will just carry these same old feelings over into the next relationship. You need to get to the bottom of where these thoughts and feelings are coming from.

     
    Old 09-09-2003, 06:55 AM   #40
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    Sadgirl,
    Something jumped out at me in your post. You said, ďI thought if I wrote that (and I really do mean it) he would be more compelled to tell me because my reaction wouldn't be so bad.ď You have already made up in your mind that he has been visiting those sites recently. You keep repeating the same question to him, just worded differently. You are telling him, ďhey, itís okay to fess up now because my reaction wonít be so bad. So just admit that you did it. I know you did it, so just admit itĒ. Honey, you keep searching for the answer YOU want. If he really didnít do it, then you are asking him to admit to something he didnít do. At this point, you have beaten this thing to death. You havenít gained anything from it. You have only managed to destroy you relationship some more. You have to let it go once and for all. You cannot keep rehashing the same thing over and over again. I ask you again, what are you getting out of this? What are you gaining by asking him the same questions on a daily basis? You are driving yourself nuts.

    So, he went to those sites a couple of years ago. He lied about it. You found out, then he admitted. Now you find Ďescort service sitesí on his computer. You never addressed my questions about how you think he could possibly find the time to meet someone? And where would he go? Arenít you with him all the time when he isnít at work?

    Where does your relationship really stand right now? Is he really going to move out? And more importantly, are you prepared for that? How are you going to handle not being able to check up on him 24/7? Will your insecurities grow?

    I donít know how I can help you with your fears. I only suggest that you get to the bottom of your insecurities with your counselor.

    Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again. You either have to let it go and trust your boyfriend is telling the truth, or break it off. You cannot continue to do this to him and yourself. You are making yourself crazy and sick over this. I just donít see the worth in that.

    What other proof do you have anyway, besides the sites on his computer? Which could have come from anywhere. You just donít know. There is tons of crap on the internet.

    So either spend your days thinking of different ways to ask you boyfriend the same question and alienating him even further. Or spend your days working on yourself and getting to the bottom of your insecurities.

    Have you been snooping? When is your next counseling session? What do you see happening between you and your boyfriend?

    (((HUGS)))
    Trooper

     
    Old 09-09-2003, 09:53 AM   #41
    sadgirl03
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    Thanks for your thoughtful posts, everyone. To answer Monday1954, my parents have a good relationship - they have been married for more than 30 years. So, I guess my insecurities first started with my last relationship. My ex-boyfriend, who I was with (on and off) for about two years, withheld information from me about stuff he'd done with other women while we were together. When I confronted him about it, he didn't deny it and admitted it to me freely. He just said he didn't think "it'd be worth it" to tell me. That really hurt me, but I decided to just forget about it. I was really naive back then and allowed him to treat me really poorly - and he continued to do so until I finally had enough. My ex didn't even show up for my college graduation. So, basically, my insecurities could have stemmed from how my last boyfriend treated me. ButI think it was when my current boyfriend lied to me, it just really shattered my image of him. I had him on a pedestal until then. I realized afterwards that he was just human and made a mistake in lying to me. I forgave him, and I have tried not to dwell on it, but it has really hurt our relationship in the most obvious way - trust.

    And to answer Trooper - I haven't snooped. I made a pledge not to and I am upholding it. I just don't know how to proceed right now. I am so torn between believing him and just forgetting about it (it's so difficult..) and just breaking up the relatiionship. I mean, I don't even know if we will continue the relationship if he moves out. You are right. I word questions a million different ways and it really frustrates him. He says, "I'm tired of having to defend myself. If you are not going to remove yourself from the relationship, then I am." In his e-mail response to me yesterday, he said he was also tired of having hope for a decaying cause - that being that I will get over my insecurities.

    I really love him so much and I can see a future for us. I just don't know how to just stop asking questions. It's like these questions seethe inside of me until I just have to ask - questions he's answered tons of times before. I've tried just squelching the doubts and not asking. But then eventually I cave in and ask. And sometimes if I don't ask, then I get moody because I'm thinking about it. It's a Catch-22 because if I don't ask, it saves us from an argument over my insecurities, but then I will get grumpy because I'm not asking. Either way, it's not pleasant. He does repeat his answers to me often, but it's because I ask the same types of questions. When I ask, I always try to take a calm tone of voice and act as non-accusatory as possible. But still, I can sense how frustrated he's getting. Our next therapy session is this Thursday, and he is supposed to see the counselor by himself. Now I don't even know if he's still planning on doing that. He said to me last night that he is at his wit's end. What should I do? Should I just let him go? Is there hope?

     
    Old 09-09-2003, 10:38 AM   #42
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    Sadgirl,
    Iím proud of you for not snooping. That is really a big step for you.

    I definitely was like you. I would question my boyfriend until I was blue in the face. I even tried the nonchalant, non-accusatory mode. It didnít work. He saw right through it and was completely fed up with my accusations, my Ďdistorted view on realityí as he once called it, and the grilling I gave him. Usually once it started, he could tell by the tone in my voice and would just completely shut down. He would sit there with a stupid look on his face, not saying a word. Which in turn ****** me off even more. So then more questions flew out of my mouth. Until I would get so mad, I would just stop talking to him. I never flew off the handle though, and I have never screamed at him. Iíve just gotten really mad, but can control my temper. Anyway, I can see why your boyfriend doesnít repeat his answers oftenÖ because he has already answered your questions a million times before. Heís tired of it. So was my boyfriend. He always said, ďyou keep asking the same questions over and over again, hoping to get a different answer, an answer that YOU wantĒ. Like I would probe him until I felt satisfied enough with the answer. Instead of just taking his word for it the first time around.

    I donít grill anymore and take his word the first time. Our situations might be a little bit different in this aspect. I am the type of person that asks a lot of questions. I like information. What he finally realized in counseling that when I ask him questions about what he is doing, etc., it isnít because I donít trust him, itís because I just want to know. We work completely opposite schedules. So we only sleep in the same bed 3 hours a night during the week. Our communication is some e-mails (very rarely), phone calls (2 Ė 3 times a day for only a few minutes each because Iím at work, then he is at work and we really canít talk then) and a message board on our refrigerator. When I feel I get information, it makes me feel closer to him and not so distant during the week. The scheduling is hard to deal with for sure. So I like to know what he does during the day when I am at work. I explained to him and the counselor that I needed that from him to feel like I was part of his life, that we were together even though we couldnít be physically together. Finally he understood where I was coming from. Now he volunteers the information and I donít have to ask. Donít know why I just went off on that tangentÖ but communication is key, I guess that is my point.

    I think he is at his wits end. Maybe he doesnít fully understand where you are coming from. Iím assuming it has been spelled out for him that you feel you have to question things that you find on the computer because of his lie 2 years ago.

    I donít know what it is going to take for you to just trust him. Counseling for me worked/is working. Although, I did admit to you about the keylogger and I did get into his e-mail. All of which proved me wrong, that he was never up to anything at all. He wasnít doing anything that would make me lose trust in him. I have stopped all that. It took me to totally snoop and violate his privacy, but Iím done with it. He doesnít know I broke into his e-mail or about the keylogger though, and I still feel guilty about it. I did have reasons for my suspicions though. Even though that still doesnít justify it. The counselor and he knows of WHAT he does that bring my suspicions. Like sitting on the computer when he gets home from work, and sneaking around to check his e-mail. But since we talked about it with the counselor about it, he realized how it looked, even though he wasnít up to anything. He still sits on the computer at night, but he isnít doing anything wrong. He has RLS and cannot go to bed with it, otherwise he keeps himself and me up. Totally understandable.

    You also need to come to a point where you both agree to disagree and move on. I have had to do that with my boyfriend. There are just some things that we have different viewpoints on. Things that happened in the past that we still argue about. In counseling last week, we both agreed that we didnít feel the need to bring up old stuff and try and work it out because it would just bring out the ill feelings again. And since we were already there and couldnít solve it. We decided to drop it. Now if anything were to ever come up again, we have a different way to work thru the problem. I donít know how it will work out, but so far itís been 3 weeks and we havenít fought and things have been wonderful. Our counselor is giving us this week off to give it more time in between sessions to see how things go. I might go on my own just to work on me a little bit more. It helps to talk to someone.

    Anyway, you know what you need to do. You need to stop the questioning and drop it once and for all. Or just break it off. Sounds like once he finds a place, heíll be gone anyway. I think you still have a VERY slim chance to fix this, but realize that he is to the point where he is *almost* done with you. You have pushed him to that point. He is telling you exactly how he feels, but I donít think that you are hearing him. Do you even realize that he is dead serious about moving out?

    I think it is good that he is going to the counselor himself. I think you need to do that too. Have separate sessions and then come back together.

    Sadgirl, you need to decide what you want to do.

    (((HUGS)))
    Trooper

     
    Old 09-09-2003, 11:53 AM   #43
    sadgirl03
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    Trooper ~ Something you wrote in your last post really struck me. It was when you were describing what your boyfriend used to say to you: He always said, ďyou keep asking the same questions over and over again, hoping to get a different answer, an answer that YOU wantĒ. Word for word, that is almost exactly what my boyfriend has said to me countless times. I am so happy to know that you are happy with your bf now. It shows that if you really make the effort, things can work out for the best, like it has in your situation.

    I was just wondering, though, what exactly did you used to ask you boyfriend? Did it have to do with other women or things in the past? Or did it just have to do with what he did that day or who he came in contact with? I am just curious. What exactly did you used to accuse him of? Did he say anything in response? When I question my boyfriend, it can be about almost anything. Sometimes my questions are borne out of true curiousity, (for instance, what kinds of projects he's working on at his job) but he mistakes my questions as having an underlying motive. Then he might get frustrated with me until I tell him that my questions didn't have to do with an insecurity. I just wanted to know. Then he'll apologize. I know that if I didn't have my insecurities, he wouldn't be paranoid that every time I ask a question, it's because of a "bad" reason.

    I so appreciate you sharing your experience with me, Trooper. It helps so much to know that I'm not the only one who has been through this kind of thing. Sometimes I feel so inadequate, deficient in some way. I love my boyfriend so much and I don't want to lose him. How do I stop my problem? I know I can stop the snooping, but the incessant question-asking has got to stop. Do you have suggestions on what I can do? And how should I act around my bf in the time being? Should I try to get him to reconsider (once again) from not moving out? How do I convince him I can change?

     
    Old 09-09-2003, 12:14 PM   #44
    MJK98
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    Sadgirl

    Please don't take offense to this but your repeating the same things your not understanding that the problem lies within you, You have major trust issues that you need to work out asap! I responded to a few of your posts ,which you appear to be ignoring, but im trying to tell you that i am experiencing right now the same stuff we may have different circumstances but its the same stuff, i do exactly what you do .......I ask questions after questions in all different forms hoping that when he answers me finally it will be the answer that will relieve my curosity to know , regardless.........
    Your problem is your thinking process is way off the charts right now and your driving yourself crazy...and him crazy..........Your issues are with trust and you need to work on this and thats why i mentioned that maybe a short time you should go on zoloft because your brain is working in over drive...If this behavior continues you are going to lose this guy and if you say you love him as much as you do than start by helping yourself, no person likes to live under a microscope which is what you are doing to this guy ...with my boyfriend every 2 weeks we go through this and i say what i say and he tells me this is the last time he is answering this and we go through the same cycle over and over ........and these are my issues regardless if it turns out he is a good guy or not , i will continue doing this unless i work on myself
    i suggest you do the same things, i can see in your postings your writing the same posts over and over
    and people are answering you and your stil not getting it
    ok well i wish you good luck and i hope you start to feel better

     
    Old 09-09-2003, 12:58 PM   #45
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    Hi Sadgirl,

    A lot of my questions used to do with who he talks to in e-mail, who he talked to at school (when he was in it at the time), what he did during the day, who he talked to on the phone, me accusing him of checking out other women, me calling him a sex addict, etc. I used to go through his cell phone to check up on him. My boyfriend used to lead a very private life. We both owned our own houses, worked different schedules, etc. We both are extremely independent too. He also never shared anything with me. I would always find out after the fact, if at all. Like if he stopped by a friends house or something. Or Iíd ask who he chatted with in e-mail and he would say none of my business. Not that I minded who he talked to, I really just wanted to know. Like I wanted to know who his friends were and how he knew them, etc. It was just trying to get to know him better. He didnít think so though. We fought about that a lot. Iíd accuse him on viewing porn on the internet, which in the beginning he did. Now I know it came from this one sick friend he has. He also subscribed to Maxim and Stuff magazines. I hate those magazines and how they portray women. I wanted him to cancel the subscriptionÖ he said he did, only to find out 8 months later, he never did. He didnít do it until after he decided to move in with me. He was getting them and bringing them to work and hiding/lying to me about it. We fought over that (that is one that we decided to let go of Ė not worth arguing about anymore). He used to have these neighbors that I absolutely couldnít stand. They were married, but they always had some other guy living with them. I mean, why on earth would newlyweds want to house another male? Anyway, this girl was always up in my face. I couldnít even pull into the drive and get my truck shut off before she was at my window being all bubbly and asking me a million questions. I cannot handle people in my face like that especially if I donít know them. Sheíd leave Ďthank youí notes in my boyfriends truck, call him all the time, etc. That bugged me a lot. I wasnít jealous because she (to me) is pretty unattractive and overweight. But her actions were a bit off to me, especially since she was married. We fought over them A LOT. They are pilots and my boyfriend is going to be one. Well, she is always offering to help in anyway that she can, etc. Itís to the point that it is really ridiculous. And when my boyfriend decided not to move in with me, he decided to move in with them. Well, we were broken up at the time, but I gave him an ultimatum. Bad I know, but I had to do it. I couldnít remain his friend knowing that he lived with her. I made him choose them or me. He chose them. And I made no attempt to contact him. Then out of the blue he changes his mind. Heís still friends with them, but really watches it. Especially since after he moved in with me, he went over there twice Ė and conveniently forgot to tell me about it. I had to ask how many times he went over there since he moved in. His first response was it didnít matter. Not a good enough answer for me, so I asked again. Then I got the real answer of twice. Crap hit the fan then. I put my foot down. No more going over there unless I know about it, no dinners over there, no calling her, heís only allowed to talk to the guy, etc. I can take a lot, but once he lied to me, then itís game on. I have to put my foot down. Iím not trying to control him either. If he was just honest with me, then things would be different. We did talk about this in counseling and we understand where we are coming from, but I still think it might be a sore spot. I donít mind him going over there, but I need to know about it first. Anyway, we fought about that a lot. And a lot of my questions would be about *her* and if he talked to her and what her sneaky intentions were. Hey, I canít like everybody! Lol. Other than that, I mostly made sarcastic comments. Like he wouldnít have enough time during the day to come and take me to lunch, but he had enough time to stop by Ďtheirí house, etc. I was full of negative comments. Rightly so, but wrong to continue doing.

    I can see how your boyfriend is paranoid. I mean, after years of Ďloadedí questions, wouldnít you be? I canít tell you how to act around your boyfriend. I know when I was constantly grilling him, I made a conscience effort to just stop the questions. As much as it bugged me, I had to let it go. It wasnít doing either of us any good. And the situation wasnít getting any better. Also, getting him to understand the difference between my questions now and what they used to be. That made a world of difference.

    Hon, no one is responsible for your happiness but you. If you are getting into a grumpy mood because you cannot ask questions, that is your responsibility. You cannot keep letting it effect you like it has been. Itís very unhealthy. You are driving yourself nuts.

    I don't have the magic answers for you. There is no quick fix for this either. You cannot change your behavior overnight, it is something that needs to be worked on. You have that opportunity now while your boyfriend is still your boyfriend and living with you.

    You have to work with your boyfriend and your counselor on how to change and to help him understand that you are willing to do anything to keep the relationship. But when you make that commitment, you have to keep it. No going back. No looking back.

    What communication have you had with your boyfriend today?
    (((HUGS)))
    Trooper

    P.S. I agree with the above poster. You might want to try an antidepressent to slow your brain down. I'm actually going to talk to my counselor about going on one myself this Friday. Mine more has to do with a chronic illness that is really getting me depressed lately. But I've fought and fought so much that I have exhausted all other avenues. It's something that I need to at least try. Why don't you look into it?

     
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