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    Old 01-22-2006, 10:27 AM   #16
    i-be-peabody
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Hi i'm new here and don't mean to hijack

    first of all you can go to your left hand panel (I think!) and just hit edit profile. That should allow you to change your gender status If you can't do this, email one of the mods and let them know. That usually works

    Okay. the reason a newbie is accessing a post like this... I was dx sz about seven years ago, okay? And it was the crappiest time of my life. I'd been enlightened and found my way to truths beyond the scope or normal capabilities. Then to be told repeatedly that it was nothing more than a psychotic illness and "here, take these psychotropics" was shattering. I lost everything, and I mean everything. friends, support, self esteem, a chance at a normal life. Everything that I deserved to have as a free thinking human being was ripped out fromunder me. I was too shattered to take my rite of passage into adulthood and for most of these last seven years was spent in and out of involuntary hospitalization, being force fed drug after drug that caused me to get really sick. (Dizzy, totally detatched from myself most of the time, vomiting constantly, muscle spasms.. ) It took five different drug experiments before I found one (Seroquel) that was able towork for me. But I've lost myself forever. My memory is shot, my thoughts suck, I still hear voices and most of them scream all night long so I can't sleep.

    Anyhow, I digress and it's for another time, I suppose.My point is, I wasn't just socially withdrawn and wanting help. In fact, help was the last thing I wanted. I felt enlightened, as I've said before. I controlled the weather and do you know how amazing is to see the sun comeup and know you're responsible?? Of course, this wasnt the only side effect of my illness but I'mjust giving you an idea of how i was feeling and what I was thinking. I was finally diagnosed and treated for undifferentiated schizophrenia (mostly paranoid and some hebephrenic tendencies... apparently)

    Why do you want everyone to tell you that you've got this crappy, horrible, (insert veiled profanity here) illness?????? (because it seems you won't be happy until someone says you do) Why do you want to think you have this?? I mean, really! Do you know what your life will become if you are diagnosed sz? If you do have a psychotic illness, enjoy your relative normality (which I can see only judging from your posts thus far) while you can!! If everyone is telling you that it doesn't seem like sz, yes, still see a diagnostic professional, but I'd be sobbing and thanking god I'd escaped that trainwreck. because that's what sz has been to me. A total, shattering trainwreck.

    Yes. Many schizophrenics are intelligent. But many are also.... um... not so very intelligent. I just wanted to say that. Intelligence isn't a criteria for psychosis.

    I would definitely see someone if I were you. But not because I think you're sz. Because I think you'd benefit in getting help to find yourself, to find what makes you special and important and what you can do about it. To find out what's eating you (because, pardon me, but itseems that something is eating you) Maybe google personality disorders. I'm no doctor but it seems that peoploe here can give their thoughts and that's mine. I think you're just missing something in your life but it's not too late to get it back.

    peace
    pea

     
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    Old 01-22-2006, 05:45 PM   #17
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Hey, UpTheAces. I'm glad you mentioned high-functioning autism. I do believe that I mentioned the possibility of Asperger's to CuriousKittie months ago. I should know- I have it, and am isolated from my peers because of my eccentricities...
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    Old 01-22-2006, 10:33 PM   #18
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    I am also a High Functioning Autistic. In which social problems and akwardness have a lot to do with such. But there are also more symptoms that what Kittie has explained to us here.

    I still stand on the fact that diagnosis is worthless here. See a professional.

     
    Old 01-22-2006, 11:45 PM   #19
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SuchGreatHeight
    "Giftedness" correlating with mental illness sounds nice, doesn't it? But that's not the case. Mental Illness can affect any persons of any intelligence.

    The profile is not in stone. Go to the User CP (at the top) and on the left, "edit profile" is one of choices. Click and be amazed.

    The only reason I implied your "idiocy diagnosis" is because of two main variables. One, I was upset by your rude comments. And two, your low understanding of Schizophrenic symptoms and mental health. I, in no way, implied that you were socially idiotic or otherwise.

    I'd also like to state that because other people tell you that you are weird, isn't substantial evidence that you have Schizophrenia, or a mental illness period. In grade school and above, if you wear the wrong pair of shoes they think you're weird.

    "Considering with my current ensemble (being unkempt) and my current self-beliefs, it seems I'm heading down the former road." plus "Many bums are actually schizophrenic" equals toÖ"I have Schizophrenia"! Do you actually believe yourself when you write this? The only reason your tester said that you'll either be a "bum" or a "stellar performer" is with the way you apply yourself and what you do with your intelligence. High intelligence doesnít mean mental disorder. And bum doesnít mean schizophrenia.

    You repeatedly said, "this MAYBE could be a symptom of Schizophrenia". Did you ever think, "this MAYBE could be eccentricities"? "Philosophy and religion MAYBE could just be a hobby"? "Disorganized speech and verbal problems MAYBE could be the result of trying to think too much while I speak" (which I do the same. Too many thoughts and nerves at once.)?

    The point I am trying to make is not that you are the text book prodigy of "normal", but that from your description and arguments that you donít have strong evidences of Schizophrenia. Thatís all I am trying to say. You claim to have no visual/auditory/etc hallucinations. No delusions. No positive symptoms and very few negative symptoms. Those are the main factors of Schizophrenia. You have no main factors of Schizophrenia. Which means you have no diagnosis of schizophrenia.

    I don't understand why you are so bent over having this disease. With every statement I make saying that you have no signs or symptoms, you pull out a small spot and milk it for all it is worth. Defending your thesis, even with little or no evidence.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you found some doctor out there who would put on a label of "Premorbid Schizophrenia" because "there's the smallest chance that you could one day go into full blown psychosis". But if that is the case, I can name thirty other people I know who can fit into the same diagnosis. There is no way to see if you "someday" could have Schizophrenia.

    Do you really want help or do you want to convince yourself and others that you are Schizophrenic? If you want help and advice, Iíll be more than willingly to tell you everything I believe and know. But otherwise, Iím not going to play your games because it's a lost cause. Iím not going to fight you for a final diagnosis because neither you or I can do that. I'd have to pull out cloudedmindís post and agree. If you want a diagnosis then see a licensed professional. There are ways to get one with the smallest financial ability, and are plenty of qualified professionals either in or around your area.

    I, and yes, you, were both throwing forth insults. You here are no victim when I retaliated with my insults. And I hold no claim of being victimized either. I am assuming that you came here for help and advice, and that is what you received. It is not mine nor anyone elseís fault if you happen to disagree. And Iím sure you can understand that.

    Concluding, if you want help, ask for it. We can only answer with our best abilities and truth. You asked, we stated. If you disagree, see a Psychological Diagnostition.

    Thank you thank you. I'll take your wonderful advice, and follow it most obediantely.

    On the subject of giftedness - You have said that their is no connection between giftedness and mental illness however I think you may be missing the bigger picture with the evidence you presented. While yes, their may be tons of mentally ill people who are not above average intelligence(and in fact - many are below average than what you would expect according to correlation), that doesn't mean that the mental illness rate is lower within the gifted population. From studies that I've read whilst browsing online, the incidence of mental illness among highly gifted students is higher than that compared to the average population. But there's the caveat - Highly gifted - which actually makes up less than .2% of the population and I am no way apart of the highly gifted. So there's going to be several notable geniuses that have mental illness(John Nash to be one) that's going to make it appear there is a connection between mental illness and mental ability - but the truth is... for the majority, their's a negative correlation between intelligence and mental illness meaning the more intelligent a random person is, the less likely he/she will develop a mental illness.

    Now for what gatsbylurver stated - I think that Most obsessive compulsive's are above average intelligence, but I don't think that most highly intelligent people are obsessive compulsive. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's where you might be getting confused.

    Anyhow - Thanks for the posts everyone - it's been great reading your posts and all those who wrote life stories. Pitch forth anything else you have to say!

    [Oh - and autism is unlikely I think..]

     
    Old 01-23-2006, 04:20 AM   #20
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Oh, John Nash. Had to respond. "A Beautiful Mind" is the only thing besides "Aviator" that I can relate to on really bad days...I love the part when he's looking at the window art and says, "I can't see it! I can't fail! This is all that I am!" Sooo me! And my all-time favorite part is when he says to Alicia, "You are exceptionally odd," and after her response of, "You must be very popular with all the girls," he says, "A pair of odd ducks, then." That just makes me cry because it reminds me of myself- I think it's so sweet that two people who are eccentric and struggle to fit in with society find another like them. I know I'm going to end up with some nerdy guy, probably with some sort of mental problem; it's pretty much inevitable. So, when I feel that there isn't anyone out there who understands my quirks and problems, watching this scene gives me hope... "If we all go for the blonde, we block each other, and not a single one of us is gonna get her, so then we go for her friends, but they will all give us the cold shoulder because no one likes to be second choice. But what if no one goes for the blonde? That way, we don't get in each other's way, and we don't insult the other girls. That's the only way we win...Governing dynamics, gentlemen. Adam Smith was wrong..."
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    Old 01-23-2006, 07:16 AM   #21
    i-be-peabody
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Well here's the thing, right? I agree. a lot of intelligent people may very well have a higher chance of developing a mental illness?? But this isn't always indicative of brain illness, which is what sz is.

    This is my dime store shrink take on everything... Highly intelligent kids tend to be very curious, thoughtful, insightful, and creative. This can cause isolation with their peers (probably alphamaleism or something) These intelligent, sensitive kids then go on to junior high where you throw a heafty dose of hormones in the mix. This is the place and time where the intelligent kids are now starting to see what REAL torment can be like. Finally by high school, they get so damn sick of it, that one of two things usually happens (In my observations, anyway) Fight or Flight. They either hide and cry or they lash out. Or worse, they come to school one day with a loaded shotgun..

    Regardless, this fight or flight over time (because theis is the reaction to danger, right??) can be a real stress on the brain, the mind and the soul. Mental illness can sometimes follow this as the poor kid's brain has been in fight or flight mode (perception of danger> stressors on the brain > stress - sleep disruption > can't deal anymore) for so damn long that he/she just cracks under the pressure. This can cause suicidal thoughts, depression, isolation and anger which can lead to personality disorders, OCD behaviour.. what have you. This is a kind of environmental reaction to stress. This can often cause mental illness. I'll bet.

    But a brain sickness is kind of a different thing. I mean, yeah. Your environment can play a role in whether or not a dormant gene comes to the surface. High levels of stress, taking drugs, Especially psychedelics (which I swear to god is what went on with me) social withdrawl, etc. But this is an indirect cause, a correlation between genes and what your environment does to those genes. I agree there are many very intelligent psychotic people. But usually, even if they can showcase their intelligence to any degree, they're usually too shattered by the time the illness has taken flight to do much about actualizing their potential. That's all I meant. Also, and again, thsi is just from experience. But the psych ward is full of psychotic people. And there aren't many woh I would call gifted. I've met a couple. But for the most part, it's a false truth because psychosis does cause heightened awareness of one's surroundings, which can induce high levels of creativity... this isn't always a sign of intelligence, just a unique perspective of the world. Although it can also be a sign of intelligence. I guess what I'm saying is that psychosis can hide intelligence a lot of the time... Which doesn't prove my point but then, I didn't really have apoint to being wiht. Just an interesting, somewhat academic take on things. (I have no previous training in psychology or anything like that. but I do have a science background as well as a creative background and when you do, you tend to see cause and effect relationships everywhere you go)

    Whew! I'm sorry I jumped the gun with you, curiouskitty (I love your name, btw) I'm very defensive of myself and my situation and I think that's part of what can make the world a terrible place sometimes. I think you should find some help (Not to offend you) but just that I think, whatever is going on with you and I don't know you so I can't really say... but whatever it is, you seem to be suffering some scary symptomsof something. And left untreated, you might fall into a dark chasm, which would be totally unfair because you seem to have a lot to offfer.

    I like the academic turn this discussion has taken.

    peace
    pea

     
    Old 01-23-2006, 10:34 AM   #22
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Hey you didn't offend me! I think that's amazing! And you know something? I think we human beings have a way of sensing weather changes. Some people say their arthritis kicks in, that they get irritable, etc.

    Animals also feel changes in weather. And they know it. Very slight air pressure changes and we perceive them too, though not always consciously because we're so busy being human (which is a really crazyjob!) and don't always understand our instinctive responses. oR something.

    I think we humans feel these slight changes in our environment but most of us don't really respond to it.. or we do, but we don't realize that it's what we're actually responding to. And you just are more in tune with your environment and can realize what's going on. That's a very special skill!! You must be very in tune with what goes on around you. I'd say you're pretty smart actually

    peace
    pea

     
    Old 01-24-2006, 12:54 AM   #23
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    About the weather storm ability - I think that you very well could of actually detected the storm and "had the ability"(Though it's not fool-proof). Many animals have the same ability, and humans aren't too far removed from many of the animals that have that ability on the evolutionary tree. On a thought, have you heard of Howard Gardner's Multiple intelligences - He proposes that their are many areas in which a person can be smart, and one of the classifications he proposed later on in his career is "Natural intelligence" or being aware of nature and your natural environment(plant and animal life). So you probably are "smart" in the "nature intelligence category".

    To defend myself against many of the posts that saw previously to this - I am not purposely trying to convince everybody that I have schizophrenia. I was mainly trying to point out evidence and other features that I thought may of been relevant that some users had missed which, in my opinion, may of been important in forming a valid opinion. SuchGreatHeights - Thank you for your post. I have read it, and I wasn't purposely trying to ruffle your feathers but rather just point out certain things(thought I may of talked in a way that was upset - in which case I apologise). I understand where you're coming from and will seek out professional attention when the opportunity presents itself. ALSO in note to your posts: Yes, I have considered those possibilities. I think a perceptive person may of understood that I had considered those possibilities if they had entirely read my post, but alas - that didn't obviously didn't get through(Possibly bad communication on my part). I believe I said something along the lines that "yes, I recognize that these symptoms are not nessecarly indicative of schizophrenia when looked at individually and could be indicative of something else, but it seems unlikely that all these certain features would be grouped together in one person without a singular cause that would cause all these different things. Yes, a person could just possibly be eccentric and that could explain "eccentricities", and yes a person could just be a loner and that could explain "social difficulties", but to have all those things present without a single underlying cause seems unlikely. This single cause I suspect may be a sort of mental disorder, such as schizophrenia - or maybe it could just be something like a social anxiety in combination with advanced cognitive abilities. NOTE: I'm not looking JUST for a label, but just for a valid explanation.

    Anyhow, thank for your suggestions on possible other diagnosis's but I doubt I have aspergers for the following reasons. Note - I'm not doing this in anyway to prove that I must have some "schizophrenia" by default of not having everything else or just certain disorders, but rather showing that that conclusion is highly doubtful.

    1. The asperger's disorder is classified as a nonverbal learning disabilty. Symptoms typically include only being to think logically and in steps, and missing "the bigger picture". Likewise this shows on certain abilities test. Being a nonverbal disability, an asperger's "nonverbal reasoning" score is usually pretty low and definitely lower than their verbal reasoning score(which means they talk a lot better and think a lot more logically, then how they are able to "picture" things and get the full picture of how something works). Well, My nonverbal reasoning score was about 16 points higher than my verbal reasoning score when I took the OLSAT test at 11.8 years old. That is in stark contrast to a typical asperger's individual whose verbal score is almost always higher than the nonverbal score.(and in fact - an asperger's nonverbal score is very often below average, and if not below average - then it virtually never exceeds normal levels - but mine was near-genius levels.)

    2. Aspergers usually start speaking at a young age and are usually precocious. The vocabulary is typically advanced for an asperger's person and an asperger person's speech is usually quite voluminous at an early age. That is in very different picture from my own speech development. I was a bit verbally-delayed and in fact I was suspected to have a sort of speech disorder. This meant I didn't speak in class when everybody else could, and I was unusually quiet and didn't really have the ability to talk when almost everyone else did.(This was actually very frustrating since my ability to think was well-developed, however that was hindered by the fact it was unusually difficult to communicate my thoughts. Throughout my development, the difficulty in talking to others accumulated over the years and I practically resigned to keeping to myself. Consequently,(I suspect) my ability to relate to others dropped drastically and I can't as easily communicate as the average person my age. This infact undoubtely contributes to my appearance of "stupidity".). Consider the fact that my verbal reasoning score was much less than my nonverbal reasoning score, and you have the whole conflicting feature where verbal ability should be the highest ability.

    And asperger's usually talk in a "rote" way or remember key phrases and use them in speech. Their is hardly any novelty to what an apserger's person says. I believe that my speech does not actually follow strict speech patterns that would follow someone with aspergers. While yes, I do think that my speech patterns may be idiosyncratic, I don't think that idiosyncracy could be explained by an autism-range disorder where speech is definitely not just following some rigid "rote" formula. At least looking at my writing, I don't see that.

    What could explain my difficulties - the INTP lifestyle along with giftedness, and possible social anxiety having developed since childhood due to speech and likewise social difficulties.

    But in light of these conflicting features of aspergers, I'll outline some possibilities that support that conclusion. Number 1, social awkwardness. Number 2, extreme social difficulties and as my sister said "social blindness". Number 3, almost constantly being misunderstood and almost always misunderstanding what others mean. These two in combination often result in extreme frustration thus leading to complete withdrawal from even trying to talk with others. Number 4, Idiosyncratic speech(though argued against as lead to above). Number 5, almost always getting an unexpected responses from people. When I try to help people out with something, I somewhere along the lines end up insulting people when I didn't quite mean to or just being "mean" even though I don't purposely try to insult anyone. Also, people often seem to take what I say in a very different way than what I mean it. An example of this was in calculus class(this just happened very recently). The teacher was explaining odd functions and stuff, and I asked how "How do you know the function is odd?"... and she referenced to "well, you should of learned trignometric identities back in trig class" making it seemed I DIDN'T know something that should of been learned in a class way before calculus, making it seem like I was "stupid".(When she explained this should of been learned in a very early class way before calculus implying I was 'stupid' and feeling that I couldn't adequately defend myself I simply desisted.) Instead, what I meant was "how do you know it's like that?" but it seemed she, nor the class, took it that way - instead they took it as if I hadn't learned about it and didn't know trig identities[when I did] and seemed completely idiotic in these regards.

    Anyhows that's about it.

    And gatsbylurver - are you ok? I understand that you may have OCD and have eccentricities, but are you sure that you have aspergers? o_0' - It just seems strange that you say that when you can often talk and communicate with others on the forums very well, and aspergers individuals typically can't. Another feature missing from aspergers is sympathising, and likewise empathy. You seem to be empathetic as indicated by people who "missed you" on the OCD forums and clearly valued you. This evidently shows that you are empathetic, which is the key ingredient nessecary to forming "relationships" and getting people to like you(as in a "friend" or "helping" type of way) as it allows you to relate with others. Because OCD forumer's value you, I think that you empathetic, and since you seem to communicate that empathy very well - you have people on the OCD forum who value you, and since aspergers individuals have a hard time expressing empathy - I seriously doubt that you have aspergers. I could be wrong though..... Have you seen a therapist or a diagnostician about it?

    (Took about an hour - 2 hours to write(probably more like an little under an hour) - I typically write and talk slowly... Much slower than I did when I was young)

    Last edited by curiouskittie; 01-24-2006 at 01:29 AM.

     
    Old 01-24-2006, 05:39 AM   #24
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    First, looking for a label can be a major breakthrough in dealing with an illness. It has a name, therefore you now have some degree of control. When you know what to call it, you're knowing your enemy Though I must say, my attitude toward dealing with my diagnosis, even accepting it, came with time and patience and a lot of paradigm shifts in my life. Becoming schizophrenic (and we think it was around my late teens.. early for a girl) was a paradigm shift it and of itself, yes as there was an enlightenment issue to deal with. The fact that I felt, understood and accepted this feeling of enlightenment. But I accepted this as something that is inate in us all and that Id just brought it to the surface and was able to see what I couldn't before. Like you hear a constant noise all your life which is so constant, it becomes a kind of silence but when you actually stop and really listen, you realize it's telling you the Grand Unified Theory, The meaning of LIfe and the origins of all that ever was and shall be. It exists in silence. A sound so constanat, it ceases to have any sound of it's own to our ears. That's a pretty heavy load for a teenager. Fortunately, my onset was insidious and though it caused a lot of fear and frustration in my family (read: What is WITH our child?? and of course my mother thought I was on drugs) it wasn't an overnight skew so I was probably able to deal with the changes it brought about more effectively.

    BEing diagnosed is a different paradigm shift alltogether. After you've seen the proverbial mountaintop, being told it doesn't exist is shattering. I'd found God, the hub of all belief, religion, spirit, science, physics (my major in university) and philosophy. Id' found my way there, I'd found absolute beautitude. And to be told it was all just a delusion coupled with hallucinations? "You are very sick. YOu have a serious psychotic illness" It destroyed me. I had been touched by the profound. Call it what you will. But, as I say, accepting the diagnosis, or realizing you're stuck with it, is a major paradigm shift because often, the sz behaves like a friend. It tells you that you're powerful. That you're special. That you're in the center of something very importat. The voices tell you this. The visions are unlike anything I could ever describe using humble language. Colours that don't exist in a normal spectrum. A kind of blue that hasn't yet been discovered. A way of seeing things that makes it all so clear and simple. Like it had been there all along, right in front of you and in searching so hard for a profound answer, you overlook the simple, complete truth that's right in front of you this whole time.

    Mind you, is not all like this you see. There was also a lot of fear. I was afraid I became an orange, that someone would peel me. I would be up for nights on end without sleep because the Voices would scream and bang on weird pianos and talk instrange languages and not allow me to rest. My computer was linked to me. That I was nothing more than software built as an AI and that soon, I'd be reintegrated into the system. A little death, no?

    That's interesting that aspergers talk young! Although I'm not an aspergers patient,I spoke at nine months, according to my mother. But I was always very wordy, though shy. Which is infinitely frustrating. I'm dead middle right and left brain (and also ambidextrous) I don't have aspergers but I share some common traits with them. I used to believe, as a child, that nothing was real, that the world was created for me alone and that I was actually just a string of synapses and signals. Someone would send a signal to my motherboard, I'd see a sunrise or hear a friend or pet my cat or eat my dinner. IT was a lonely feeling but also a powerful curiosity. I thought all i experienced was just a result of mybrain being tickled by some kind of (pardon the seussism) poke-o-mo-thalo-mo-scope If you will. I like seussisms.

    Man, shut up pea! I have no point here. I just find this thread... interesting. Gaining some insight for sure. You can really read between the lines, as many of you, I'm sure do with me. It's part of the fun of being human and interacting. And message boards are great ways tointeract for us "social boobs" as I like to call myself because it's... well.. it's like talking in installments. You can stop, think, go back, erase. You don't get interrupted and you can get an entire thought out without being cut off. If you forget your train of thought (personally, my Dr Moriarty ) you can always go back and figure out what that train was. Online is kind of my social life outside my house which is too small to accomodate my needs as a wider scope human being.

    I'll write more but let me consider some things that have been itching the back of my mind in regards to all this. CuriousKittie, you remind me of one of my best friends "Kaylee", (not her real name, of course) who has obsessive compulsive disorder. I'm not saying that's you because i'm no doctor but since you're asking *shrug* In fact, I'd guarantee it but again... no doctor.

    I've written volumes of irrelevant mishmash. Mostly because I'm new, but also because things you say trigger ideas, which trigger other ideas, which then set a whole series of thoughts off and then ideas come fast and its' like the electricity turns on. And each inch of this tired old brain has a brain like that.

    peace
    pea

    Last edited by i-be-peabody; 01-24-2006 at 05:49 AM.

     
    Old 01-24-2006, 05:43 AM   #25
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"



    You know.. one reason I hate socializing so much is because when I get into a large group and they're all talking, I can't trust my ears to hear properly. Its embarrassing and scary and overwhelming. And even if I'm not hearing voices or having any kind of active hallucinations at the time, it's still a wall of speech that sounds very similar to what the voices are like. That's a stressful part of socializing that isn't necessarily social anxiety.

    pea

    Last edited by i-be-peabody; 01-24-2006 at 05:48 AM.

     
    Old 01-24-2006, 05:46 AM   #26
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

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    Oh when I said my friend "Kaylie" I put that in quotation marks. This isn't her real name. I just wanted a name to use and I just pulled that from a hat. I hope this is all right.

    peace
    pea

    Last edited by i-be-peabody; 01-24-2006 at 05:50 AM.

     
    Old 01-24-2006, 01:07 PM   #27
    GatsbyLuvr1920
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    [QUOTE=curiouskittie]

    1. The asperger's disorder is classified as a nonverbal learning disabilty. Symptoms typically include only being to think logically and in steps, and missing "the bigger picture". Likewise this shows on certain abilities test. Being a nonverbal disability, an asperger's "nonverbal reasoning" score is usually pretty low and definitely lower than their verbal reasoning score(which means they talk a lot better and think a lot more logically, then how they are able to "picture" things and get the full picture of how something works). Well, My nonverbal reasoning score was about 16 points higher than my verbal reasoning score when I took the OLSAT test at 11.8 years old. That is in stark contrast to a typical asperger's individual whose verbal score is almost always higher than the nonverbal score.(and in fact - an asperger's nonverbal score is very often below average, and if not below average - then it virtually never exceeds normal levels - but mine was near-genius levels.)

    2. Aspergers usually start speaking at a young age and are usually precocious. The vocabulary is typically advanced for an asperger's person and an asperger person's speech is usually quite voluminous at an early age. That is in very different picture from my own speech development. I was a bit verbally-delayed and in fact I was suspected to have a sort of speech disorder. This meant I didn't speak in class when everybody else could, and I was unusually quiet and didn't really have the ability to talk when almost everyone else did.(This was actually very frustrating since my ability to think was well-developed, however that was hindered by the fact it was unusually difficult to communicate my thoughts. Throughout my development, the difficulty in talking to others accumulated over the years and I practically resigned to keeping to myself. Consequently,(I suspect) my ability to relate to others dropped drastically and I can't as easily communicate as the average person my age. This infact undoubtely contributes to my appearance of "stupidity".). Consider the fact that my verbal reasoning score was much less than my nonverbal reasoning score, and you have the whole conflicting feature where verbal ability should be the highest ability.

    And asperger's usually talk in a "rote" way or remember key phrases and use them in speech. Their is hardly any novelty to what an apserger's person says. I believe that my speech does not actually follow strict speech patterns that would follow someone with aspergers. While yes, I do think that my speech patterns may be idiosyncratic, I don't think that idiosyncracy could be explained by an autism-range disorder where speech is definitely not just following some rigid "rote" formula. At least looking at my writing, I don't see that.

    And gatsbylurver - are you ok? I understand that you may have OCD and have eccentricities, but are you sure that you have aspergers? o_0' - It just seems strange that you say that when you can often talk and communicate with others on the forums very well, and aspergers individuals typically can't. Another feature missing from aspergers is sympathising, and likewise empathy. You seem to be empathetic as indicated by people who "missed you" on the OCD forums and clearly valued you. This evidently shows that you are empathetic, which is the key ingredient nessecary to forming "relationships" and getting people to like you(as in a "friend" or "helping" type of way) as it allows you to relate with others. Because OCD forumer's value you, I think that you empathetic, and since you seem to communicate that empathy very well - you have people on the OCD forum who value you, and since aspergers individuals have a hard time expressing empathy - I seriously doubt that you have aspergers. I could be wrong though..... Have you seen a therapist or a diagnostician about it?
    QUOTE]
    Hey, curiouskittie. Everything that you listed, numbers 1-3, are things I do, especially the precocious verbosity, rote memorization, and nonverbal learning disabilities. (I've always struggled with math and abstractions.) I know that I don't have full-blown Asperger's like I have full-blown OCD, but my therapist was actually the one who brought up the topic once again. We were talking, and she was describing several Asperger's teens she knows, and everything was me. I brought up the whole empathy/talkativeness thing, and she said that in the people she knows, the obsessive fixations are the main symptom. God knows I have obsessive fixations! I believe that my high amount of empathy is due to the OCD- never wanting to hurt anyone's feelings, being afraid that God will punish me for a bad thought, etc., but concerning the communication issue, you've never seen me try to connect with people who I don't have a connection with! lol! I have always been "different" and isolated from my peers, ever since I was a young child. I have few friends here at my college, and this is due to the fact that I can't find anyone who feels the same way I do. I connect far more with the professors, who are my good friends, because they are as passionate about learning as I am. It's difficult for me to make anything more than mere acquaintances when all most kids care about is drinking, partying, and acting silly. They're here simply to get their diploma. Sure they study and make good grades, but they just go through the motions. Understandably, for someone like me, whose eyes literally light up at the mention of American history, chemistry, and anatomy, I can't relate to them; I spend most of my time alone, which is the way I like it. I hate being around people and I need my space. Classic Asperger's-ness. I'm not one of these people who feels "lonely" because they have few friends (all of my friends were made in high school, where everyone was a nerd like me)- I honestly couldn't care less. The only time it's hard is when nobody understands how I feel and I feel ostracized at times when it's painfully obvious that I'm very different, but most of the time, I embrace my eccentricities. However, who wouldn't feel isolated when they are the only ones who gets excited over going to chem class while the rest are sitting there bored to tears. For further evidence, my chem professor, who I'm pretty close with, and is one of about two people here who I can connect with, has a ten-year-old daughter with Asperger's, and when I was unable to get him at first for this semester (thank God I did), and I had a breakdown because I needed sameness and he's the only thing that makes my day enjoyable, my mom called him and told him about my OCD, prompting him to tell her about his daughter. He actually told my mother that "he sees a lot of [me] in [his] daughter". This cracked me up because I had never told him anything about my disorders, so it must be pretty damn obvious that I'm an obsessive-compulsive with Asperger's traits! I could go on and on as to why I'm pretty much positive that I have Asperger's, but I have to go get a shower, something I do only out of necessity- one of my many sensory issues is an abhorrance of being wet... I've been toying with the idea almost as long as I toyed with the possibility of me having OCD. I turned out to be right on that account and I know I'm right on this one, too. I go to my CBT on Thursday, where my therapist and I are trying to untangle my Asperger's obsessions and compulsions from my OCD. Talk to you soon!
    -GatsbyLuvr1920-
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    "Not everything that steps out of line, and thus 'abnormal,' must necessarily be 'inferior.'"
    -Hans Asperger

     
    Old 01-24-2006, 02:50 PM   #28
    curiouskittie
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Ok - That sounds like a good plan and I found the part about your professor particularly hilarious. Haha... Well, at least you know that you have asperger's-like "traits" just from the grand scope of things and everything put together. I hope that it gets sorted out at your CBT exam. Personally, I think that you maybe an extremely verbal person(and since you're ability to think and work with words is so more advance then the normal person you're age - you're practically excluded on that fact alone) with difficulty in abstraction and mathematical reasoning with a hint of introvertedness; Ok probably not just an ordinary hint: More like a super-strong hint.

    Now I'm sure you've heard of the types who are extremely verbal but often have a hardtime understanding something or more abstract ideas or abstract education realms like math.(and god, I used to abhor these type of people because they could talk their way around anything and making it sound like they were smart and knew what they were doing(i.e convincing), but often didn't) I suspect that you maybe this way. And also introvertedness - Have you heard of it? It's basically just preferring to being alone comparison to socializing with others - which it seems that you are this way. Also another trait of an introvert is keeping only a very few amount of friends and preferring one-on-one contact with others, in contrast to being an extrovert who has lots of friends, and likes to party with others, and finds hanging around with many others people(often in large groups) to be particularly energizing, rather than how an introvert would find it "draining".

    In light of the fact of being an extremely verbal and english-oriented person(as evidenced in your posts) and that you often associate with the more educationally-advanced individuals(as you say - Nerds in high school and you find your professors to be your true peers) because they are probably the only ones who can completely understand you and likewise be able to relate with you, I'd say your probably an individual with advanced linguistic ability with introverted traits whom likes to seriously study. There is nothing wrong with that - it's probably just the hallmarker of a nerd, which is not meant in derrogatory way. (And are you sure that your ability to abstract is limited? I can't really immediately determine that from reading your posts. o_0 - but you say you immensely enjoy chemistry(amongst other subjects)? That along with anyother science related field requires the ability to abstract concepts.)

    [And did you read the asperger's section of the book "The misdiagnosis of the gifted child", and looked at the conflicting features and reviewed it with other people to form a valid opinion? That may be eye-opening...]

    But it certainly does seem the possibility of aspergers exists. Meh - report back after you see the professional at the appointment!

    Last edited by curiouskittie; 01-24-2006 at 02:58 PM.

     
    Old 01-24-2006, 06:24 PM   #29
    GatsbyLuvr1920
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Hey, curiouskittie! I just re-read the Asperger's section in the "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children" book, and once again, I don't fit the description for the true disorder, but, as they say, have some of the "increasing degrees of characteristic behaviors that end up with an impairment that is then called Asperger's Disorder." Probably the best description of me comes from the following: "Consider a third-grade gifted child who is serious and passionate about number puzzles and anagrams and who loves the precision of their patterns. In her spare time, she reads and corresponds with others on the Internet about her passion (much like I do here on the mental illness boards). Her age peers do not understand her zeal, and the gifted child gets upset because the other third-grade children seem so immature. Does this gifted child lack empathy? No, it is really more a lack of tolerance. Bright children may have little tolerance for others who do not share their rapid mental processes. When this child attends a meeting of the high school math club, it is clear that she has normal social interatctions with her peers there, demonstrating empathy, reciprocity, and emotionality." However, to further complicate things, I've already printed out articles upon articles about Asperger's, in preparation for my CBT session (and just because I'm interested- I actually did the research months ago; just printed it days ago... ), and there's striking similarities, experiences that I don't think are mere "giftedness". And, of course, there's the whole question about the rituals- as one person said, who, like me, had OCD and a strong suspicion of Asperger's, "I have been aware for some time that my 'obsessions' clearly fall into two categories or perhapes even three. I have the definite OCD-type 'negative' obsessions centered around hygiene and strange 'superstition', then there are 'positive' obsessions such as hobbies and subjects of interest- programming since I was six, being able to identify any ZX Spectrum just from the sound of the tape loader, etc." I can't really give a better explanation for what I suffer from, down to being able to recognize minute sounds...I think, really, what my therapist wants to do is to separate out what could be Asperger's rituals and my OCD compulsions, to further my treatment. She has a friend who specializes in Asperger's, and she was going to talk to her this past week. The big question for my therapy is really, "what consitutes my true OCD symptoms and those sensory rituals that I do in times of extreme stress, which make me feel better and able to cope?" But, once again, just like I did with the OCD for years and years, this research has literally become obsessive and compulsive: I must "prove" to myself whether I have it or not, re-hashing the material over and over, fearing that I'm "making up" symptoms and "over-diagnosing" myself. I'm really looking forward to going to my CBT this week; I have never discussed my Asperger's-like traits so openly with a therapist. It's as if I have finally fully discovered a whole important part of myself, a part that I want to further explore and analyze- is it eccentricity or pathology? Either way, it DOES interfere with my life, whatever it is, and should be treated as such. I'm honored, by the way, that you think that my handle on the English language is far advanced from my age group. That's a real compliment. I'm looking forward to debating this with you further, and with anyone else who has any ideas. Oh, and speaking of finding my chemistry professor "hilarious", you don't know the half of it! He's such a nerd, and so random, that he's automatically funny, even though he doesn't try to be, or even realize that he is. What I get a huge kick out of is his clearly excessive use of the phrase "in terms of". Since December 5, I've been keeping a daily tally each time I have class (obviously, compulsive right there! lol), and it's just mindboggling. Yesterday, he broke the record: 119 times in two hours... I'll talk to you soon.
    -GatsbyLuvr1920-
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    "Not everything that steps out of line, and thus 'abnormal,' must necessarily be 'inferior.'"
    -Hans Asperger

    Last edited by GatsbyLuvr1920; 01-24-2006 at 06:27 PM.

     
    Old 01-25-2006, 09:07 AM   #30
    i-be-peabody
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    Re: A review of the chronic question "Do I have schizophrenia?"

    Yes. Intelligence aside (Because we are in no position to rate our own intelligence.. it's too relative), I was always a fast thinker, even before getting ill. And while I'd found my way to the end of an idea, I'd find people still working on the first part of it. That would irritate me and chip away at my patience. Now, since being sick, the brain seems to move ten times as fast but my ability to keep up wit it has been damaged. So my conversations come out sounding rather broken as my stupid tongue is trying like mad to rush through the thoughts that move very fast. And there are usually hundreds of them at once.

    Until I got older, I was just like you say, Gatsbyluvr (love the name, btw) kids my own age were awful. I mean, Iwas kind of ruthless. I'd watch them and try to find a sign of intelligence in their eyes (and of course they didn't like me staring at them one little bit) but older kids, adults... I actually found I was a little extroverted with these peopleif they nurtured my need for knowledge and curiosity (I learned quite young that there are some pretty dim adults too, though..)

    peace
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