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Leanor 08-22-2003 10:51 PM

Chicken pox vaccine causing shingles
My husband became ill with shingles after being exposed to a baby who had just had her chicken pox vaccine and was having a reaction to it. My husband's doctor and the baby's doctor both said that this is how he contracted this awful, painful illness, yet the CDC and many other health agencies state that this is not possible, although they did admit that one can contract chicken pox from a newly vaccinated child. They also claim that one can get chicken pox from being exposed to someone with shingles, but not the other way around. That might be so, but what about being exposed to a child who has just had the vaccine and is having a reaction to it? Has the virus now mutated or what? What is going on here?
In 1995 we started vaccinating children with the chicken pox vaccine. According to UC Davis, 850,000 people get shingles each year. The cases of shingles is 65% higher than 40 years ago. This, I don't believe is a coincidence.

Sarah68 08-23-2003 03:50 AM

The thing is, I really do not understand why people would vaccinate against chicken pox these days in the first place? The disease itself is normally self-limiting and does not make you that sick, so why vaccinate at all and if you have the illness itself, then your own natural immunity to it is one hell of a lot better than any vaccine.

As a kid, I was not vaccinated against chicken pox and I got it. My two cousins had it at the time having bought it home from school with them. My Mom sent me round to play with them so that I would catch it. I did and I was not that ill at all, except for the intense itching. It was bored more than anything, as I was an active child and wanted to be out there and playing with the other kids. Anyway, I got over it and have no problems since, not even shingles and have never had a recurrence of chicken pox itself.

I think myself lucky, in that I had all the childhood illnesses, including chicken pox, mumps and rubella, so have my own natural immunity against these and my immune system is a lot better than if I had been vaccinated instead. I hardly ever get sick now days.

Basically, when vaccines are given, they can either be live or dead vaccines. Dead vaccines are normally given to people who are immunocompromised already, such as renal transplant patients who are on immunosuppressive drugs and do not want their immune systems to react. They are not as effective and live vaccines are normally given to everyone else.

Basically, a live vaccine is an attenuated form of the disease itself and can actually cause a milder form of the disease in the body.

If your husband had chicken pox as a child, then the virus still lives in the nerve roots within the body and can become activated at times of stress and when coming into contact with the chicken pox virus. Rather than causing chicken pox, you would develop shingles instead.

When this baby was given the chicken pox vaccine, she would have been given a live vaccine, which would be an attenuated form of chicken pox itself. When a vaccine is given, the immune system will react to it, because it has been given as an injection straight into the blood system. It maybe that rather than the baby having a reaction to the vaccine, the vaccine itself may have caused the baby to have a mild case of chicken pox itself. If your husband went near the child, having had chicken pox himself, then rather than getting chicken pox again, he would have contracted shingles instead, which is a lot more painful, I would suspect?

When given a vaccine, the immune system should react to it, especially if it is a live vaccine and following a live vaccine, when the immune system has reacted, it is perfectly possible to contract a milder form of the disease itself, in this case chicken pox and this is why your husband has contracted shingles.

It is nothing to do with viruses mutating, but is a direct result of the vaccine itself. If your immune system does not react to a live vaccine and produce some sort of reaction, then there is something seriously wrong.

Viruses themselves can mutate and this is their own self-preservation mechanism. If they mutate, then they can live longer and by mutating this ensures that noone has immunity to them, as most people would have immunity to the previous virus. That is why you can get flu every year, because a flu virus mutates from year to year so that even if you have had flu the previous year, your immune system will not recognise the new strain. That is why they produce new flu vaccines every year to take account of the new strain.

Another example of this is the recent SARS virus outbreak. It is thought that this is a mutated flu virus and because it mutated, nobody had any immunity to it. Also, it crossed species boundaries and they think it was more commonly found in birds rather than humans. This is why so many people died because they had no immunity.

Hope this helps and I hope your husband recovers ok from his case of shingles.

Good luck

Leanor 08-23-2003 09:13 AM

Thank you for your reply and the information.
Now, that the damage is done, what concerns me is WHY pediatricians are not informing the mothers about the shingles. Don't they realize how many elderly people will be holding this child!? Is vaccinating against chicken pox worth possibly infecting a grandparent? Jeeze, people have died from shingles!!!!How can parents live with that kind of guilt? I'm in depression now, just knowing I was responsible for sitting a baby that infected my husband and caused him such pain and misery.
I wish I had known.
What are we, just a bunch of guinea pigs for the drug companies?!!
It is my understanding that cases of chicken pox must be reported, but this is not the case with shingles. I believe that if the public was aware that a newly vaccinated child could infect someone and give them shingles, the parents would no longer be so willing to vaccinate their children. I also believe that it behooves the drug companies and the medical profession to report to the public on cases of chicken pox, but it would NOT be advantageous to them to report shingles.
After all, isn't it the bottom line that matters most?

suschi 08-24-2003 06:40 AM

Leanor, you can do a search on google type in

shingles on the rise

and you will see that yes indeed, the useless chickenpox vaccine is causing shingles, not only in the older folk exposed to recently vaccinated kids, but sometimes in the child who has just been vaccinated. It was also found that this vaccine had a very poor effective rate when there was an outbreak in a daycare, STARTED by the VACCINATED child! Now we know who starts the outbreak of disease! Hint, it isn't the healthy unvaccinated child!

tim77 08-25-2003 01:20 PM

Leanor, I was wondering how is your husband doing now?
Where is the shingles rash located? I had shingles recently and I am a man who is 30, I had a lot of pain and was very tired and vomiting and just very embaressed about the rash being that it was on my face.

He should get as much rest as possible. Ice packs and calamine lotion helped the rash and so did those Aveeno baths.

Hope he feels better soon and I support your decision about not vaccinating.

LizW 10-02-2003 02:06 PM

See I think this is ridiculous.....

As adults if you are exposed to the Chickenpox you get Shingles not Chickenpox....It doesn't matter if you are exposed to a child that has it or if you are exposed to a child who was vaccinated...

Its all the more reason to vaccinate people for Chickenpoxs, so that we can elimated adults getting Shingles.....

Sarah68 10-03-2003 05:13 AM

I think that it is an already established fact that most people know that as adults, when exposed to chickenpox you will develop shingles.

However, your argument is totally illogical and makes no sense whatsoever to me at all.

What you have basically stated is that if an adult comes into contact with a child with chickenpox or one that has been vaccinated against chickenpox, then they will still get shingles? In the next breath you then go onto state that by vaccinating kids against chicken pox, then shingles will decrease? How is this so, going on what you have just stated. See the illogical arguement in this?

It is just as easy for an adult to catch shingles from a child with chicken pox or also one who has been vaccinated, so why bother to vaccinate at all as this will definitely not reduce the amount of cases of shingles. The only way for an adult to avoid getting shingles is to avoid coming into contact with all children who have chickenpox or have been vaccinated against chickenpox.

Then of course, it also comes down to individual susceptibility to diseasse. If you are not susceptible to a particular disease at a certain time, then however much you go near it, you will not get it. However, if you are susceptible at that particular moment then you will. This is why some people get the flu every year and others do not. It comes down to your susceptibility at the time.

LizW 10-03-2003 06:23 AM

My argument is one as such....

If you Vaccinate children with the Chickenpox vaccine, then that generation and future generations will have a decrease in shingles cases in adults....hopefully to none

Sarah68 10-03-2003 08:00 AM

No. Not so. Your argument still is totally illogical and does not make any sense at all.

Basically, when you give a vaccine you are injecting a live vaccine straight into the blood stream. A live vaccine contains an attenuated form of the disease. When you are vaccinated, your body will react to this, so the chickenpox virus has still been introduced into your system. If the vaccine introduced the virus into your system, then you can react to this and get chickenpox as a result of the vaccine. If you get chickenpox as a result of the vaccine, then the virus will still lay dormant within the ganglia of the nerve cells as in a normal occurence of chickenpox, so if as an adult you then come into contact with chickenpox and you happen to be susceptible to the disease at that particular moment in time, then you would still contract shingles as a result. The mechanism would be just the same as if you had chickenpox in the normal way in the first place.

Vaccinating for chickenpox therefore would not reduce the amount of shingles experienced in adulthood.

If you are going to post things on this board, please check that the information you are posting is in fact correct. As far as I can see, what you have posted is factually incorrect.

LizW 10-03-2003 10:56 AM

It just seems like you are all OVERLY obsessed.....

Do some research on some REAL Research out there, and stop believing what the "rare" cases tell you

LizW 10-03-2003 11:02 AM

Alright Sarah...I was a little bit wrong in my posting earlier.....But Adults getting the Chickenpox can be VERY DANGEROUS.....and that's what you are trying to prevent here....The ramifications of what if your child doesn't get the chickenpox in their childhood years....

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 10-04-2003).]

Sarah68 10-03-2003 12:42 PM

I am not overly obsessed with this as you put it, but I really am when people do post information that is factually incorrect as you did and have.

Just to let you know, both of my kids have had chickenpox already, as I did as a kid and are extremly happy and healthy. They never received the chickenpox vaccine as they never needed to. They had chickenpox instead and have their own natural immunity to this disease.

Also, it is a misconception that all vaccines are safe. They are not and there are some kids that do developed ADHD and autism following several rounds of vaccinations. It is a myth that all vacccines are safe.

Also, waivers should not be removed for parents who do not wish to vaccinate their kids. It is every parents right to choose whether to vaccinate or not and if they do not wish to they should have this right. They have done their research just as you have and may have come to the opposite conclusion that you have, so they should have this choice.

I have to say that most unvaccinated kids are a lot healthier generally than vaccinated ones and if they are unvaccinated they have fewer health problems in adult life than others do.

It is everyones choice to do what they want to and you should be able to make up your own mind about this.

I have to say that I think you are the one who is a little obsessed by this topic.

LizW 10-03-2003 01:11 PM

How am I obsessed?

I came onto the internet looking for valid information on this topic.....and the only thing I found was positive things for vaccines. I haven't found a single scientific research paper on the negative effects of vaccines....

Please show me if you have such information, because I'd like to read valid papers and research that validates in any way how these people think or feel.

And for the record, I admitted that I made a mistake, and I corrected that in my latest post.

LizW 10-03-2003 01:18 PM

And Sarah Tell me this.

How would you feel if one of your children did not get the Chickenpox during the course of thier childhood? What happens when their children come down with the Chickenpox one day, or their grandchildren?????

Do you know how hard it is for a child to come down with a disease, and then have either their mommy, or daddy, or both have to leave for a while while the contageous stages are passed.

Trust me its not a happy and or pleasant thing to deal with. I know first hand what its like.

Vaccinating your children now, might not be for the best at this very moment, but as more and more children are vaccinated, and less and less cases of Chickenpox are out there, the chances that children won't get it through normal everyday life circumstances dramatically drops. And you are setting them up for a dangerous situation in the future if someone near them actually does catch it

Pandabaire3 10-03-2003 01:32 PM

Just to add - if you were to ask your children's doctor the reason why they have the chicken pox vaccine in the first place, it's because they discovered that some people coming down with the illness ALSO had a flesh eating virus that was attached. The vaccine was created to reduce the cases in which people were likely to possibly die from a very varacious addition to the original chicken pox virus. These days you may not break out in mere "spots" but you may end up hospitalized because of the disease if you get the very evasive form of it. If you ask me, that's more worrisome than shingels.

Sarah68 10-04-2003 03:17 AM

Chickenpox is highly infectious and is spread by droplet infection, so it is possible to catch it by simply coughing and sneezing.

Both my kids have had all the childhood diseases and are perfectly healthy and they have never been vaccinated. They both have healthy immune systems and are very happy and well adjusted kids.

I have received vaccines myself though and this has been mainly for work reasons. A few years ago however I needed to go and have vaccine updates and specifically Polio. I went in and had this and within 24 hours of having this I was nearly crippled with stomach trouble. My stomach did not improve significantly within a week of having the vaccine, so I decided to go and see my doctor and told him what had happened. He actually told me that it was as a direct result of having this vaccine that I had the stomach problems. Polio vaccine can live in the gut for up to 6 weeks afterwards and if your hygiene is not impeccable during this time, anyone who has had this vaccine can spread it around.

Anyway, I continued to have a lot of stomach problems for quite sometime afterwards, but my doctor at this time did manage to help me, but he also said that he felt that it would not be a good idea to have this vaccine again.

This is why I do not like the idea of vaccinating, as it is possible to have such bad reactions to things that can cause problems for so long afterwards that it is hardly worth it.

girlygirly 10-10-2003 10:30 AM


Let me ask you a question, what long term studies can you cite on childhood vaccinations? How about a study that can show us the long term benefits and risks. I don't think that you will find any, vaccinations are not normally studied past the first 2 months.

If your children are vaccinated why should you even care about who isn't, it will not affect you in any way.

People who decide not to become sheep in the herd are not obsessed, perhaps a pioneer maybe be a better choice of words. The questioning of why we must have vaccines deserves more attention.

rubindj 10-10-2003 06:36 PM

By the way, if you come down with the shingles, you need to see the doctor.

There are now some very effective antivirals and lidocain patches which will make it much less painful and reduce its course.

momof3mjt 10-11-2003 07:01 PM

Even if you get the vaccine you can still get the chicken pox. You will just get a lighter case. And being exposed to someone with chicken pox is not the only way to get shingles.

Shingles come from chicken pox, but they lay dormant in our bodies and certain things bring them to the surface. Mostly stress. My mom and my sister both have and still suffer from shingles and both cases were from stress.

There are some here who are very down on vaccines. I think it is very unhealthy to scare people like this without a medical degree or proof. With this many immigrants STILL coming into this country who are not required to be immunized we may start to see an increase in diseases that we havent seen in decades. Do we really want our children unprotected from these diseases?

Yes there are those RARITIES (sp) of kids who have had some bad consequences from vaccines, but kids can get autism, mental retardation from other things too.

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