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    Old 09-06-2004, 06:55 PM   #31
    idealist
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SweetJade1
    Idealist,
    BRAVO! As many ways as I've tried to explain this creatively, I don't think I would have ever thought to phrase things the way you did. Yet, that's what so good about seeing other people work together & become passionate about this. I absolutely loved it! I found it very moving & considerate, and hopefully you will be able to reach even more people ;-)

    Take care


    P.S. The Ketogenic diet is what is used for Epileptics...hmm
    thanks sweetjade. your posts have been extremely helpful. you and prometheus made me realize i had a poor diet.

     
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    Old 09-06-2004, 07:06 PM   #32
    idealist
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    kiwichick,

    i'm assuming at one point you tried changing your diet with no good results? if you don't mind me asking, what foods did you mostly eat? also, how long were you try it for? there seems to be such a variety of "trigger" foods for people. some people have noted skin improvement by eliminating 1 or 2 specific foods (for ex. just diary, or just bananas). other people, like me, seem to be sensitive to EVERYTHING; simple carbs, dairy AND sweets. and had to nearly elimnate all these foods to see results. so if someone tries to eliminate just one thing and doesn't notice an improvement, i would recommend reducing/eliminating the other types of "bad" food.

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 11:21 AM   #33
    ForgottenFaith
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    I would have agreed with your post before I took accutane, but I beg to differ. Before I took accutane, I thought food was the culprit, but it wasn't. While I was on accutane and even after, I was and still am able to eat anything without breaking out. If you have active acne, it's really hard to pin-point the cause when no matter what you do, you still breakout. Don't deprive yourself of food and vitamins. Now unless you know for a FACT that you are indeed allergic to a particular food group or a specific food, don't take it. There are health food specialists out there, go see one. Pizza, fast food, junk food, etc... are labeled unhealthy foods and they do not trigger your acne unless your allergic to it. It's common knowledge that they're bad for you, especially if you eat them on a daily basis. Do you know how many people engage in bad eating habits? 80%+ (just throwing a figure out there) of the people in the United States would have acne.

    As for the poster who asked for internet references - don't bother. The internet is a horrible source to check up causes for acne. Type any word along with acne and you'll get tons of pages. Try it. And most of these sites are fakes trying to sell their products. Anybody can make a site and scam people and call themselves doctors.

    I'm not trying to knock your theory/hypothesis, but we all know what are good/bad foods. I think that the cause and the culprit to acne goes way beyond just food, but hormones, hereditary acne, etc... But everyone is different, so get to know your skin. Just follow the few cardinal rules out there when you have acne. For example, don't touch, don't pop, etc... you all know. Just overcome your urge to touch and pick and your face will
    improve. Know your skin and formulate your own opinions to the causes of your acne.

    You all know what is good/bad for you, you're not as clueless as you think. You can't label junk food acne "triggers", because we all know they're bad for your overall health. Weight being the most obvious effect. So don't believe everything you read.

    I apologize if you take my reply as an attack or an attempt to shoot down your theory, but I was just giving my opinion and my experience.

    Last edited by ForgottenFaith; 09-07-2004 at 11:38 AM.

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 05:46 PM   #34
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    forgottenfaith,

    i don't take your post as an attack, just as your opinion, which is what the boards are for. as i mentioned in a prior post, i share your believe that not everyone is affected by food the same way, hence of course acne is not occuring in 100% of people who eat bad food. but i do believe that in a large percentage of acne sufferers bad food IS the cause and they haven't decreased/eliminated the right foods for a long enough period of time.

    regarding accutane...iin a previous post i mentioned how modern medicine treats the SYMPTOM, not the ROOT CAUSE of the problem. i don't see accutane as CURATIVE. if it were, 100% of the people who take it would not have acne anymore. but that's not the case. during my 2 courses of accutane i was 100% clear, but the acne came back, worse than ever before.

    accutane works in a number of ways, which SWEETJADE could be more informative about, but i know this much; shrinking the oil glands (therefore less sebum production, therefore less acne), decreasing insulin sesitivity. so the way i see it, it's MASKING the problem, not curing it. going back to the rash/detergent allergy...you have a rash because you are allergic to a new detergent and you use a cream to get rid of the rash. the cream helps to heal the rash but the ALLERGIN IS STILL THERE. the detergent needs to be eliminated. certain foods needs to be eliminated to help acne. and it's more than just an "allergy."

    anyway, my point is, just b/c you went on accutane and you are acne free now, it doesn't mean that food is not causing your acne. it might just be being prevented from manifesting itself. which i know, for many people it's a good enough reason for people to try it. but, me personally, i regret having taking accutane.

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 06:33 PM   #35
    ForgottenFaith
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    I guess you can call it what you want, masking the problem or what not but it works right? There is no drug out there that will leave you 100% clear forever, but if a drug can help suppress or mask the problem, that the next best thing, right? And as far as certain foods needing to be eliminated from one's diet, I assume you're talking about junk food? Which we all know is bad for one's health, not just acne if it is in fact the culprit.

    Now I've seen vegetarians and healthy eaters on here still have acne. Are you saying that it's an individual's fault for having acne, because they engage in bad eating habits, and they indulge on the wrong foods? Because you did say that you believe that a high percentage of acne sufferers have bad eating habits and thats why they breakout. I think college students would be a prime example of how not to eat. And look at them they're clear. So if you took a person with clear skin and put him/her on the same eating habits as an acne sufferer, who you say eat "bad" foods, would that person with clear skin breakout, too? If your answer is NO, then ask yourself why. What makes an acne sufferer different from someone with clear skin, when they engage in the same eating habits. I'm sure you all know people who indulge in the wrong kind of foods,or never wash their face, and don't protect their skin, and they're still clear.

    Last edited by ForgottenFaith; 09-07-2004 at 06:38 PM.

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 07:25 PM   #36
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Quote:
    So if you took a person with clear skin and put him/her on the same eating habits as an acne sufferer, who you say eat "bad" foods, would that person with clear skin breakout, too? If your answer is NO, then ask yourself why. What makes an acne sufferer different from someone with clear skin, when they engage in the same eating habits. I'm sure you all know people who indulge in the wrong kind of foods,or never wash their face, and don't protect their skin, and they're still clear.
    You are right in that the diet/acne connection is NOT a cause/effect reaction in everybody out there. However, the question you are asking is like saying: "If you took a thin person and an overweight person and fed them the same "bad" foods, would the thin person gain weight too? And if not, why not?" Well, many reasons including their physical activity, genetics, their metabolism, to name a few.

    With acne, eating chocolate is NOT going to cause a pimple for EVERY person that eats it. Neither is ice cream, pizza, or bananas. But people who are predisposed to having acne for whatever reasons (genetics, how their liver processes toxins... to name a few) would more than likely notice a tremendous improvement in their skin if they followed the correct diet long enough to give results a chance to appear.

    Quote:
    but if a drug can help suppress or mask the problem, that the next best thing, right?
    Next best thing to what, trying a healthy diet? Personally, if something is wrong with me I want to treat the cause, not mask the problem. A good painkiller can make a toothache go away, but if I have an abscess lurking underneath, the problem will only come back as soon as the painkiller is discontinued. Accutane didn't cure me, and it doesn't cure everybody that takes it. If anything else your acne comes back with a vengeance later on. How long has it been since you stopped Accutane? Have you stayed clear? If so, congrats to you. I only hope that it lasts for you longer than it did for me.

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 08:03 PM   #37
    ForgottenFaith
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    I've been off accutane for about 2 1/2 years and I'm free of acne. I do get the occassional zit but I can't complain. I still have discolorations which are fading slowly but surely. Really slowly to be honest, lol. But, after I stopped accutane, my acne and oil seemed to be coming back but I countered that by using the proactiv cleanser. Proactiv cleanser is really the only thing that keeps my skin clear, so it totally counteracted whatever acne and oil that started coming back. So, the key is consistency, stick with a regimen that suits you, and don't switch cleaners or anything because your skin will need a new window of time to adapt. Or whenever I get a zit or a cluster of them that make my skin itch, I take ibuprofen and it does the trick.

    "but if a drug can help suppress or mask the problem, that the next best thing, right?"


    "Next best thing to what, trying a healthy diet?"

    To answer your question. Yes and no. It's smart to keep a good diet, but it won't necessarily kill you to cheat it once in awhile. But what I was really talking about was accutane's ability to suppress or "mask" the problem. I said that there was no drug out there on the market that guarantees you 100% clear skin forever. So I said the next best thing would for the drug to suppress whatever the cause was, since it can't eradicate the cause or the root.

    It just makes me laugh when someone says "OMG, I ATE A PIECE OF CHOCOLATE AND 5 MINUTES LATER I FELT A PIMPLE COMING"- Well, they say "I felt", which would be indication that they were touching their skin out of paranoia. Well how do they know it wasn't there earlier? Oh wait, that's because they got paranoid because they ate something they think they shouldn't have, and they discovered a new zit and irritated it by touching it. You know what I mean? So what I'm trying to say, is that sometimes the cause can be mistaken. Like in this case, what may look like a breakout from food you ate, it may really be from you picking and touching your face.

    Last edited by ForgottenFaith; 09-07-2004 at 08:11 PM.

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 08:11 PM   #38
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    I think Foods can make acne worse but not all togther eliminate it. Im a bodybuilder and i stay on a strict diet and i still get acne

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 10:37 PM   #39
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ForgottenFaith
    I've been off accutane for about 2 1/2 years and I'm free of acne. I do get the occassional zit but I can't complain. I still have discolorations which are fading slowly but surely. Really slowly to be honest, lol. But, after I stopped accutane, my acne and oil seemed to be coming back but I countered that by using the proactiv cleanser. Proactiv cleanser is really the only thing that keeps my skin clear, so it totally counteracted whatever acne and oil that started coming back. So, the key is consistency, stick with a regimen that suits you, and don't switch cleaners or anything because your skin will need a new window of time to adapt. Or whenever I get a zit or a cluster of them that make my skin itch, I take ibuprofen and it does the trick.

    "but if a drug can help suppress or mask the problem, that the next best thing, right?"


    "Next best thing to what, trying a healthy diet?"

    To answer your question. Yes and no. It's smart to keep a good diet, but it won't necessarily kill you to cheat it once in awhile. But what I was really talking about was accutane's ability to suppress or "mask" the problem. I said that there was no drug out there on the market that guarantees you 100% clear skin forever. So I said the next best thing would for the drug to suppress whatever the cause was, since it can't eradicate the cause or the root.

    It just makes me laugh when someone says "OMG, I ATE A PIECE OF CHOCOLATE AND 5 MINUTES LATER I FELT A PIMPLE COMING"- Well, they say "I felt", which would be indication that they were touching their skin out of paranoia. Well how do they know it wasn't there earlier? Oh wait, that's because they got paranoid because they ate something they think they shouldn't have, and they discovered a new zit and irritated it by touching it. You know what I mean? So what I'm trying to say, is that sometimes the cause can be mistaken. Like in this case, what may look like a breakout from food you ate, it may really be from you picking and touching your face.

    ForgottenFaith,
    While I think Idealist is handling this wonderfully, if you ever get interested, trying looking up an Elimination Food Diet and you will understand how it is possible to pinpoint what foods do and don't affect us...

    Also, while I think there is nothing wrong with accepting accutane or any other drug that will mask your symptoms, the concern for me comes into play when you have an underlying health or hormonal disorder.

    Now while most people with acne don't have severe hormonal problems, there are around 10% that do. I've met several people on these boards that have taken anywhere from 1 - 6 courses of accutane and in the end they discovered that the reason it wasn't permanent for them was because they had a hormonal disorder.

    So please remember, acne can be a sign of a much larger problem, and for some it may be their only sign. As time goes on, some people have noted additional other symptoms arising. These symptoms occured as a result of an ongoing chronic problem and if they had actually been able to detect their health/hormonal problem when it first began (years ago), those other symptoms would not have worsened or developed in the first place.

    Now when you take that into consideration the following, what type of person would you rather be: The one that takes 8 or more prescriptions to fight their (increasingly common) health problems or the one that changed their diet and takes only supplements or 1 - 2 prescriptions if need be?

    I've seen this repeatedly with women with PCOS. Those that opted to not change their diet, as it can be related to Insulin Resistance - High Carbhoydrate type effect, were taking several prescription drugs to combat their problems. Indeed, that makes sense since they are basically taking medication to combat the effects of the diet that they are still consuming, of course the effects won't be so great. Meanwhile the women that chose to change their diets, were usually taking maybe a few supplements, and rarely any medications.

    PCOS and/or Insulin Resistance both resulting in Hyperandrogenism, is a multi-symptom disorder, hence the other supplements. Yet for me, I use my own customized diet to obtain 99% clear skin and to eliminate my menstrual pains and 100mg of Spiro to treat my mild hirsutism. I had been on Spiro from 150mg - 200mg for 6 years and the diet for 2 years and decided to test it out. So, I went off of Spiro for 6 months and while my skin never changed, the hair started growing back and unfortunately in new areas!!! So I know that I NEED it's androgen receptor blocking effect (vs. just reducing androgen production from the diet)! Yet, I'm working on finding a natural substitute and Beta Sitosterol looks promising.

    So anyway, that's what I have to say. Masking isn't a problem, as long as you don't have a deeper problem that may currently be asymptomatic. If so, I would hate to see someone cheat themselves as a result...they WILL regret it later.

    Last edited by SweetJade1; 09-07-2004 at 10:50 PM.

     
    Old 09-07-2004, 10:49 PM   #40
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Idealist, I tried eliminating different foods from my diet for nearly 6 yrs until I tried accutane. I cut out dairy, meat, wheat...... every possible cause I tried because a Dr told me that it was my diet, it wasn't! Nothing improved, infact things got worse, I got tired, I got moody, I couldn't concentrate, was always sick, I did give these eliminations a decent amount of time. I was 15 years old and so living with my parents who supported, helped and guided me through it and it never changed my acne. In the end I got advice from a skin specialist, who in HIS opinion said that diet is not the creater of acne like people think. I understand what you are saying, we all know our bodies better than anyone else and we all know what triggers things for us ie if I drink to much diet coke then I get a headache, or if I touch the skin of an orange I come out in a rash, so you know yourself what foods you can eat without a reaction, however I feel that it is an unfair statement to say that if you can control your acne with a "healthy" diet. As Indy gal said, a thin person and an overweight person can eat the same and one gains and one doesn't, this is because we are all different, same with acne. I finished my accutane 6 yrs ago and I have been acne free since, I also have the same diet as I did when I had the acne. So I am not saying that there is NOT a connection between acne and diet because for some people there may be, I am saying that there is not ALWAYS a connection as in my situation.

     
    Old 09-08-2004, 04:23 PM   #41
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Sweetjade, oh insightful one, thank you for the run down. While I was only talking about food and accutane, you went further to comment and discuss hormonal acne-related issues. Thank you, it was very educating. Now this article "Elimination Food Diet " - Like I said before, we all know what and what not to eat. That article didn't even mention acne, or at least I don't think it did, I didn't read through it. I just don't like when people tag certain foods acne "triggerers", when there is no real empirical evidence of it, unless you are infact allergic to it. So I didn't find any information on that site that would substantiate or justify what Idealist if trying to prove.

    Just to reiterate, the internet is a terrible source to look up acne. So looking up anything is rather pointless, unless you're reading someones journal or something of that nature. Type any word along with acne and you'll get tons of pages. Sadly enough, you'll also find more horror stories and peoples' failures on certain drugs, than you would finding peoples' success stories. The internet is a great source, but not when it comes down to acne. There aren't that many credible sites on the net, just look at all the scams sites. Anybody can make a site and sign Dr. "X" at the bottom, and come off as a doctor. I could make a site right now, and use photoshop to touch up before and after pictures, write fake testimonials and sign myself as a doctor. I could say on my website to starve yourself for "x" amount of days and it will ultimately free your skin of acne forever, and do you know how many people would actually do it?

    Last edited by ForgottenFaith; 09-08-2004 at 04:38 PM.

     
    Old 09-08-2004, 04:46 PM   #42
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    The internet is a good sourse of information if you know how to use it correctly! Yes *** coms are usually worthless. Limit your searches to .*** or .gov. A .com is fine if it's a trust worthy site. ***** for example. I've found an incredable amount of useful information from the University of Maryland Med School web site. www.umm.***.

     
    Old 09-08-2004, 06:04 PM   #43
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ForgottenFaith
    Sweetjade, oh insightful one, thank you for the run down. While I was only talking about food and accutane, you went further to comment and discuss hormonal acne-related issues. Thank you, it was very educating. Now this article "Elimination Food Diet " - Like I said before, we all know what and what not to eat. That article didn't even mention acne, or at least I don't think it did, I didn't read through it. I just don't like when people tag certain foods acne "triggerers", when there is no real empirical evidence of it, unless you are infact allergic to it. So I didn't find any information on that site that would substantiate or justify what Idealist if trying to prove.

    Just to reiterate, the internet is a terrible source to look up acne. So looking up anything is rather pointless, unless you're reading someones journal or something of that nature. Type any word along with acne and you'll get tons of pages. Sadly enough, you'll also find more horror stories and peoples' failures on certain drugs, than you would finding peoples' success stories. The internet is a great source, but not when it comes down to acne. There aren't that many credible sites on the net, just look at all the scams sites. Anybody can make a site and sign Dr. "X" at the bottom, and come off as a doctor. I could make a site right now, and use photoshop to touch up before and after pictures, write fake testimonials and sign myself as a doctor. I could say on my website to starve yourself for "x" amount of days and it will ultimately free your skin of acne forever, and do you know how many people would actually do it?
    ForgottenFaith,
    The internet is an amazing source of information and indeed misinformation and fraud. If you know how to use it wisely, and believe me I do, although I wish I could do it a bit better, you can find credible information for what you are looking for. Usually, I only ever speak of things that I have found clinically controlled scientific studies on. So, when I mentioned the elimination food diet, I wasn't referring to any specific article, as this is an empirically validated method used to identify allergies, or intolerances, in an individual. People do not know what affects them when it comes down to an allergy or an intollerance because there are many possible environmental irritants. While there are tests to help speed up the identification process, they are not always the final consensus, as a properly followed Elimination Diet is the most accurate way to do this. However, the other day I did find an a elimination diet titled "Low Reaction Acne Diet"

    Furthermore, acne is considered inflammatory, correct? Well these diets can also work for someone when they are allergic/intolerant to a food because that food will produce an inflammatory response. That inflammatory response can occur anywhere within the body. Of course, as I love mentioning the hormonal connection that people repeatedly fail to take into consideration, if you have sugar problems (not always detected), eating the same foods that can be inflammatory in some individuals and/or that will also boost your insulin levels, will consequentally boost your androgen levels. Thus, another way you can get acne.

    Once again, you can not know if something affects you negatively if you are ALWAYS consuming that food item. Granted if it's a lethal or an instant reaction as is usually associated with Allergies, you will find out sooner or later, but if it's an Intolerance it's a bit more difficult to pinpoint as this is a more delayed reaction.

    Intolerance of a particular food develops over a period of time (several years or decades after birth) due to lacking (enough of) the neccessary enzyme needed to properly digest a particular food item. Common examples would be a Lactose and Bean/Legume intolerance. As we age, most people, and some ethnic groups more than others, will slowly become intolerant to both. From then on, an Intolerant Reaction can occur anywhere from several hours to a few days after you've consumed a food you're intolerant to. Therefore, you must eliminate one or several suspect allergens/irritants from your diet for a at least a few weeks, note any effects, and then see what happens every 2 weeks when you add them back in one-by-one.

    Last edited by SweetJade1; 09-08-2004 at 06:37 PM.

     
    Old 09-08-2004, 06:58 PM   #44
    Auberdine
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Thanks for the great post. I have realized too that diet and stress can make a difference. Could you list some possible meal plans? That would be fantastic. Thanks.

     
    Old 09-08-2004, 07:33 PM   #45
    idealist
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    Re: nonbelievers & believers of diet/acne connection

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kiwichick
    Idealist, I tried eliminating different foods from my diet for nearly 6 yrs until I tried accutane. I cut out dairy, meat, wheat...... every possible cause I tried because a Dr told me that it was my diet, it wasn't! Nothing improved, infact things got worse, I got tired, I got moody, I couldn't concentrate, was always sick, I did give these eliminations a decent amount of time. I was 15 years old and so living with my parents who supported, helped and guided me through it and it never changed my acne. In the end I got advice from a skin specialist, who in HIS opinion said that diet is not the creater of acne like people think. I understand what you are saying, we all know our bodies better than anyone else and we all know what triggers things for us ie if I drink to much diet coke then I get a headache, or if I touch the skin of an orange I come out in a rash, so you know yourself what foods you can eat without a reaction, however I feel that it is an unfair statement to say that if you can control your acne with a "healthy" diet. As Indy gal said, a thin person and an overweight person can eat the same and one gains and one doesn't, this is because we are all different, same with acne. I finished my accutane 6 yrs ago and I have been acne free since, I also have the same diet as I did when I had the acne. So I am not saying that there is NOT a connection between acne and diet because for some people there may be, I am saying that there is not ALWAYS a connection as in my situation.

    kiwichick,

    well, i think we agree. we are just saying things differently. we agree that something is not going to affect everyone the same way. i'm sorry to hear that diet did not help your acne. it's helped mine quite a bit. i only wish i had discovered it sooner.

     
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