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    Old 10-14-2004, 01:44 AM   #91
    Snails
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Well, I don't know if it's even worth thinking about God or some other cosmic force playing a role in this. I'm not religious, I admit it, I believe people make their own grace and fortune in this world. I'm wondering if Nini putting her future in the hands of God is another way of essentially giving up on putting any effort into finding a man. Let me make this clear--while I don't like when threads here start to sound like everyone should believe in the same mystical being despite all absense of proof, I am not trying to attack religion here. I admire the hope and strength it gives to many people. Nini, I do believe you won't feel truly happy and complete until you find a male partner. But not all men expect you to have sex to date, to me that's another excuse to hold out for the perfect man and bypass the okay ones. I'm not saying you should have sex if you don't want to, but sex is FUN, FREEING, LIBERATING!!

    I doubt you'd be feeling so hopeless about this situation if you had some sex every now and again. IF its your ex who thinks this is wrong--well screw him, he's already renounced all his professed "morals," and following them will certainly not bring him back--but if you truly believe it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage, then you shouldn't. I just have a hard time understanding this, because marriage is a legal obligation, so cold and clincial, which is still denied to some long-term, devoted, lifelong lovers. My sweetie and I have considered ourselves married since a few weeks after we met--we're just waiting until there is some practical benefit to say "I Do." I'm not going to let a piece of paper tell us we don't love each other enough to have sex. I have to say, I just don't understand how some people can put SUCH emphasis in this status which is so often made trivial--like Britney's annulment, her current "faux" marriage, or ludicrous (Carmen Electra, now married again, and Dennis Rodman in a wedding dress), all of which is OK as long as it's a man and a woman. Why do people still revere this institution now that over half of all marriages fail?

    Nini, sex is one of the few pleasures we have left to relish--I can't see why you close yourself off to that at the same time you feel little hope of finding a partner. Do you really want to live the rest of your life without having sex? Don't you think that sex with more than one man might help you heal from such a devestating heartbreak? Maybe I'm wrong, I may see sex as much more catharthic, healing, and refreshing as those with a religious bent see it.

    On another note, Nini, no matter what God/fate throws your way (as another poster mentioned) are you really open and ready to find love again? If you believe in God, you still have to admit it can't do everything--you have to be alert and ready for the possibilities that are presented. Have you mourned your ex to the point where you can start fresh now? You HAVE to find a way to do that, or I just don't see how you can ever move on. I don't think that it's anything you're doing that's causing you to strike out. Unfortunately, you may need to look further into yourself before you realize where your attitudes about love and dating came from. For instance, it strikes me as extremely unusual that you didn't date at all in your teens and twenties--I know you're attactive, smart, and funny. Many people with a lot less to offer had plenty of dates in their early years--what held you back? I'm not saying you have to answer here, but I have a feeling you won't be able to sustain a relationship until you explore where your ideas about sex and romance came from.

    I do disagree with some of the other posters who suggested Nini was holding back in some way on past dates. Perhaps, but I doubt her dates saw it as such. I just don't think she'll be able to open herself to new possibilities until she explores what's kept her from dating for so much of her life. Nini's old patterns, much like her ex's, may provide some answers. In the meantime, I hope this doesn't seem harsh. I'm a big fan of yours, Nini, but I do believe when no one can find an answer to a serious problem in the present, it's time to look back. What kept you so naive and starry-eyed that you believed (and still, it seems, in some ways believe) that the first man that came along was the one, despite his bad behavior? I think this will take a lot of self-examination, patience, and effort to uncover a new NINISJPC, ready for love . I do agree that many of the methods Nini has tried have failed, maybe not due to lack of effort, but to lack of belief that they will prove fruitful, which is completely self-defeating). Nini, if you believe in God, don't ask him to bring you a miracle. Instead, why don't you ask for the strength to look into your past and see what is holding you back, because you do need and deserve a man to love, but I don't see that being all that likely if you proceed along your current path with no added perspective from delving into the reasons you never dated until you ex?? I

    I really do wish you all the best; it just seems like more of the same is going to produce more of the same results in this situation. Whatever path you choose NINI, you have to put a 100% effort into it for it to work, even if it is the path for you. Don't rely on a miracle, rely on YOU!! i KNOW YOU CAN DO IT!!

     
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    Old 10-14-2004, 07:10 AM   #92
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SophiaM
    So, by the same token, almost anyone can find love, when they're open enough to it. Patience plays a huge part as well. Yes, at 40 it might feel like there's nothing else you can expect from life, but life sometimes surprises you. YOU sometimes surprises you. All I can say is, never be rigid in your views, and never say "never." I've done things in my life I would never in a million years expect of myself. Because I kept an open mind, for better or worse.

    Hey soph

    I agree with every word here and of course your entire post. Life is full of suprises. Nini, did put a lot of effort into trying to find her match but just hasn't came yet. I rather her not rush it so she is with someone that she doesn't like. I want to see her happy so I want her to be patient about her decision.

    Life still can be enjoyed though in the meantime while waiting for that special man. She can continue to date and if it doesn't work out then get the next man in line. Don't dread bad dates because they will happen. Keep an open mind like you said and move on to the next fish. There are plenty of men out there to choose from. There are alot of bad men out there but you dont know who they are until you go out with them so its good to just jump on the band wagon and give them all an equal chance anyway.

    I have a lot of faith in nini and I am sure she will find that happiness again. Its depressing to think at 40 you dont have much going but look around with all of the positive things and you will see that life is good in reality. I know a guy that is 43 and still single. He has never been married and he has not giving up hope. He have 2 houses and drives a nice car and still has not gave up hope that he will one day find happness.

     
    Old 10-14-2004, 02:21 PM   #93
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snails
    I'm wondering if Nini putting her future in the hands of God is another way of essentially giving up on putting any effort into finding a man. Let me make this clear--while I don't like when threads here start to sound like everyone should believe in the same mystical being despite all absense of proof, I am not trying to attack religion here. I admire the hope and strength it gives to many people. Nini, I do believe you won't feel truly happy and complete until you find a male partner. But not all men expect you to have sex to date, to me that's another excuse to hold out for the perfect man and bypass the okay ones.
    I guess by this you mean there's something faulty in the way I approach men or dating or whatever as a whole. Maybe you think I should date or have sex with men that I don't find attractive or appealing at all? I think maybe that works for some people, but that just doesn't work for me. Maybe it's how I look at people in general. I don't, and cannot, connect with just anybody. I don't know why, maybe faulty wiring, maybe some childhood trauma, but I just don't. It's very rare when I meet someone that I feel I can trust, that will accept me for who I am, that I can laugh around and be myself around and feel like I'm not being judged or ridiculed. I thought my ex was one such person, but it turned out he was not. But I just wouldn't find it any fun to steadily date someone, and no way having sex with someone, that I did not have this kind of connection with.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snails
    I doubt you'd be feeling so hopeless about this situation if you had some sex every now and again. IF its your ex who thinks this is wrong--well screw him, he's already renounced all his professed "morals," and following them will certainly not bring him back--but if you truly believe it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage, then you shouldn't. I just have a hard time understanding this, because marriage is a legal obligation, so cold and clincial, which is still denied to some long-term, devoted, lifelong lovers.
    I don't necessarily oppose all premarital sex. But sex outside the context of a loving, committed, monogamous relationship just wouldn't work for me. I dabbled in it once, not actual sex, but sexual contact, with an acquaintance, last winter, and it was such a hollow experience I almost cried in the middle of fooling around. It hurt to do that with someone and not have that emotional connection. Plus, he's seen more a$$ than a toilet seat in his day, and I was momentarily careless and had to sweat out the worrying about STDs (tests all came back negative, thank God.) He's recently found God and is trying to use his newfound religion to talk me out of my funk, and he chastised me for allowing myself to still have feelings for a married man. Well PPPPHHHHTTTTTHTHHHHHTTT to that. He wa smine first. He swore he'd never leave me, we looked at wedding rings together and measured our fingers and everything. In my heart, we were already married. I can't turnmy feelings off like a spicket just because he decided to be a jerk and marry some divorcee. It also says in Matthew "you have been told that any man who wished to divorce his wife, he will be given a bill of divorce. But I say to you, any man who divorces his wife, causes her to commit adultery. And any man who married a divorced woman also commits adultery." So if anyone has a problem with me still having feelings for a married man, too flippin' bad.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snails
    Do you really want to live the rest of your life without having sex?
    No, I don't. Which is why this is so painful. It's more than I can bear to have to know so much of my life is already wasted, and I've never made love really. But, as stated above, sex to me is so much more emotional than physical. I don't get anything at all out of it unless that emotional bond is there. That's just me. It's hollow, empty and meaningless, and not at all enjoyable otherwise.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snails
    For instance, it strikes me as extremely unusual that you didn't date at all in your teens and twenties--I know you're attactive, smart, and funny. Many people with a lot less to offer had plenty of dates in their early years--what held you back?
    Uh, the fact that no one ever asked me. I got up the courage to ask two guys out in junior high school, they both turned me down flat. In fact one got a friend to tell me he hated my guts. No one was ever interested, what can I say. By the time I reached college, I had gotten so used to living inside my own head and treating other people like obstacles and intrusions rather than potential relationships, that I admit I didn't take full advantage of college life. But I grew up in a very very conservative, white middle class suburban neighborhood, and I'm not white, and interracial dating just wasn't done, so I'm sure that had a little something to do with it.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snails
    What kept you so naive and starry-eyed that you believed (and still, it seems, in some ways believe) that the first man that came along was the one, despite his bad behavior? I think this will take a lot of self-examination, patience, and effort to uncover a new NINISJPC, ready for love
    I honestly don't think it was naivete or being starry-eyed that has made me feel like this guy is the "only" it. I just by and large really hate dating. I hate telling the same storied over and over and over again, making the same inane small talk, and although some dates have really been fun, that's not what turns me on. There was such a deep, rich, satisfaction in having that one person that "got me," who was my friend and confidante, who laughed with me when no one else did. He just happened to be the first man I ever dated.
    Yes, he behaved badly, and so did I. I still believe he's the only one for only one reason: there hasn't been anyone else. Although he crossed my mind, this second bout of pain and misery really didn't settle until until I found out he married a divorcee with tied tubes. I thought he at least was my friend, someone who cared about me as a person, and to find out he was just using me, that he lied to me every step of the way, this is what's so devastating. I do think to a large degree, this information has led me to give up. I obviously don't deserve love, because if I deserved love, I'd have it, it's that simple. And I do tend to be a bit of a fatalist, and I do think things happen for a reason. I don't know if God has a divine plan for everyone's life, but I do think that if He opens a door, no one can close it, and if He closes a door, no one can open it. I think for some reason He's chosen to close the door of love on me. I've never known it. Only two miserable on-again-off-again years with some guy who was lying to me and using me the whole time and that's my complete, total experience with love. The problem is I think I'm NOT naive or starry-eyed. I just can't believe that after 40 years of this track record, suddenly, things will turn around overnight. When I was a kid, I was happy, energetic, bubbly, curious, and I still had a devil of a time making people like me. It just seems to be the way it was supposed to be for me. The tough part is having to accept it and live with this, because it's the last thing in the world I really want to believe, but nothing else really makes sense. I don't really know what else there is to say about all this, but again, I thank you all for your input and support and for the chance to just vent a little. Ok, a LOT.

    Last edited by Ninispjc; 10-14-2004 at 03:27 PM.

     
    Old 10-14-2004, 10:40 PM   #94
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hi Nini,

    I am really sorry if it sounded like I was judging you or implying that your attitudes are flawed. That was not at all my intention, and now that I see it in writing I didn't mean the naive comment the way it came out. I feel badly in general that some things in that posts can be interpreted as much more harsh than I meant them. I certainly did not mean to say you should go around having sex with someone that didn't appeal to you; I would never ever advocate that. I guess my point was, you can never really be sure how a relationship is going to turn out while you're involved in it. At this point in my life, I agree that I'd only feel comfortable with sex in a loving, monogamous relationship--however you never know if what you think is that sort of relationship won't work out that way. In that sense, I was just trying to echo the other posters' advice to keep an open mind. Don't necessarily write off a potential relationship because you don't see him as "the one," because your feelings may change in time and not every great relationship is readily apparent as such in the beginning. Again, I'm not saying you're acting this way, but if I was you, I wouldn't close myself off to any possibilities just because I didn't immediately see it turning into marriage.

    I can see how you thought your ex was your perfect match when you first met, but from what you've said he displayed many behaviors that made you suspicious, like being jealous and unsupportive of your singing talent, arguing about values and morals, talking about his crush from work, hiding a picture of his eyes, remembering to put her but not you on his guest list as shows, and didn't you guys (almost?) break up at one point? I was wondering how long you continued to believe he was the one once the honeymoon period wore off and he was no longer acting like you were the center of his universe. I'm assuming that he had started to behave less than perfectly by the time you were looking at rings? Was that soon before he left you for his wife? And is she the same girl with the eyes he liked from work who he'd be so excited to talk to oh the phone? Did any of this stuff make you question whether he was the one while you were together? When did he actually leave, and how did he justify it? Had he already met the new woman before you broke up? I'm not at all trying to imply anything here, just interested in getting the story straight. And I think anyone who tells you that you shouldn't have feelings for ANYONE should shut up. With so many people committing real adultery, where does a holier-than-thou know-it-all get off telling people not to have "sinful" FEELINGS? Your feelings are yours and yours alone, they are private and often not even within your control. I hope you told that guy to jump off a bridge.

    Anyway, I really am sorry if I came across wrong. I'm also sorry that you're suffering with such terrible loneliness. I know where you're coming from, and I can certainly see why you feel the way you do. I hope you don't completely give up hope, however, or close yourself off to any possibilities that may pop up. You never know what might happen on any given day, so please don't totally give up. I'd hate to see you presented with a chance for a great love, and not notice or not take it because you're convinced you don't deserve love. You DO deserve love, you are a wonderful person with a huge heart. You're also a late bloomer, so maybe love is just taking its good old time in finding you again. Hang in there, and at least try to believe that there's a slim chance for you to find a loving partner someday.

    Best wishes,
    Stacy
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ninispjc
    I guess by this you mean there's something faulty in the way I approach men or dating or whatever as a whole. Maybe you think I should date or have sex with men that I don't find attractive or appealing at all? I think maybe that works for some people, but that just doesn't work for me. Maybe it's how I look at people in general. I don't, and cannot, connect with just anybody. I don't know why, maybe faulty wiring, maybe some childhood trauma, but I just don't. It's very rare when I meet someone that I feel I can trust, that will accept me for who I am, that I can laugh around and be myself around and feel like I'm not being judged or ridiculed. I thought my ex was one such person, but it turned out he was not. But I just wouldn't find it any fun to steadily date someone, and no way having sex with someone, that I did not have this kind of connection with.

    I don't necessarily oppose all premarital sex. But sex outside the context of a loving, committed, monogamous relationship just wouldn't work for me. I dabbled in it once, not actual sex, but sexual contact, with an acquaintance, last winter, and it was such a hollow experience I almost cried in the middle of fooling around. It hurt to do that with someone and not have that emotional connection. Plus, he's seen more a$$ than a toilet seat in his day, and I was momentarily careless and had to sweat out the worrying about STDs (tests all came back negative, thank God.) He's recently found God and is trying to use his newfound religion to talk me out of my funk, and he chastised me for allowing myself to still have feelings for a married man. Well PPPPHHHHTTTTTHTHHHHHTTT to that. He wa smine first. He swore he'd never leave me, we looked at wedding rings together and measured our fingers and everything. In my heart, we were already married. I can't turnmy feelings off like a spicket just because he decided to be a jerk and marry some divorcee. It also says in Matthew "you have been told that any man who wished to divorce his wife, he will be given a bill of divorce. But I say to you, any man who divorces his wife, causes her to commit adultery. And any man who married a divorced woman also commits adultery." So if anyone has a problem with me still having feelings for a married man, too flippin' bad.

    No, I don't. Which is why this is so painful. It's more than I can bear to have to know so much of my life is already wasted, and I've never made love really. But, as stated above, sex to me is so much more emotional than physical. I don't get anything at all out of it unless that emotional bond is there. That's just me. It's hollow, empty and meaningless, and not at all enjoyable otherwise.

    Uh, the fact that no one ever asked me. I got up the courage to ask two guys out in junior high school, they both turned me down flat. In fact one got a friend to tell me he hated my guts. No one was ever interested, what can I say. By the time I reached college, I had gotten so used to living inside my own head and treating other people like obstacles and intrusions rather than potential relationships, that I admit I didn't take full advantage of college life. But I grew up in a very very conservative, white middle class suburban neighborhood, and I'm not white, and interracial dating just wasn't done, so I'm sure that had a little something to do with it.

    I honestly don't think it was naivete or being starry-eyed that has made me feel like this guy is the "only" it. I just by and large really hate dating. I hate telling the same storied over and over and over again, making the same inane small talk, and although some dates have really been fun, that's not what turns me on. There was such a deep, rich, satisfaction in having that one person that "got me," who was my friend and confidante, who laughed with me when no one else did. He just happened to be the first man I ever dated.
    Yes, he behaved badly, and so did I. I still believe he's the only one for only one reason: there hasn't been anyone else. Although he crossed my mind, this second bout of pain and misery really didn't settle until until I found out he married a divorcee with tied tubes. I thought he at least was my friend, someone who cared about me as a person, and to find out he was just using me, that he lied to me every step of the way, this is what's so devastating. I do think to a large degree, this information has led me to give up. I obviously don't deserve love, because if I deserved love, I'd have it, it's that simple. And I do tend to be a bit of a fatalist, and I do think things happen for a reason. I don't know if God has a divine plan for everyone's life, but I do think that if He opens a door, no one can close it, and if He closes a door, no one can open it. I think for some reason He's chosen to close the door of love on me. I've never known it. Only two miserable on-again-off-again years with some guy who was lying to me and using me the whole time and that's my complete, total experience with love. The problem is I think I'm NOT naive or starry-eyed. I just can't believe that after 40 years of this track record, suddenly, things will turn around overnight. When I was a kid, I was happy, energetic, bubbly, curious, and I still had a devil of a time making people like me. It just seems to be the way it was supposed to be for me. The tough part is having to accept it and live with this, because it's the last thing in the world I really want to believe, but nothing else really makes sense. I don't really know what else there is to say about all this, but again, I thank you all for your input and support and for the chance to just vent a little. Ok, a LOT.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 10:12 AM   #95
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hi snails - No, please don't feel bad about anything you said. I know where you're coming from too, and I can certainly understand why my situation may be frustrating to some people. I'm sure I'm coming across as stubborn and unwilling to help myself. I guess right now I'm sort of stuck. It just hurts so bad I feel sort of immobilized by it all, and I feel like before I can do anything else to better my situation, I have to lessen the pain somehow, and I just don't know how to do that.

    Actually, I don't know when he met his wife, I suppose it could have been while we were still dating. No, she's not the same woman whose eyes he had a picture of. And yes, there were red flags all through our relationship. I was just too stupid to pay attention to them. He told me he loved me after about 3 weeks of dating, and I was nowhere near ready to say it back. Then it got to the point where he was like "well, I know how I feel for you and it's nice to hear it back." So I went through a week of soul searching and decided I loved him too, so I told him, and he then told me he wasn't sure if he loved me anymore. I should have left him then and there, but I just couldn't bring myself to. I just didn't want to believe I'd waited almost 31 years to finally get a boyfriend and it was only going to last a couple of months. So I held on, through his wanting "space," through his leaving me twice, I still hung on, hoping one day he'd mean the sweet things he said to me. When he first left me, I made two lists, one of the things I was going to miss about the relationship, and one of the things I would be glad not to deal with anymore, and the second list was three times longer. I knew it was best that we split, but when I found out he shacked up with then married a divorcee with tied tubes, I don't know, I just felt knocked over all over again. I just feel so lied to and betrayed, by someone who once swore he was my friend. I don't know, it just sucks.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 10:19 AM   #96
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ninispjc
    I'm sure I'm coming across as stubborn and unwilling to help myself. I guess right now I'm sort of stuck.

    You are not coming off stubborn. You know yourself better than we do. We are just trying to understand you from different view points and you have replied with wonder thoughts towards our threads. You are stuck but hopefully with our help you may come around.

    I just wanted to let you know that you are not stubborn at all.

    Last edited by eightball61; 10-15-2004 at 10:19 AM.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 11:28 AM   #97
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    I am beginning to think, Nini, that this is deeper then just being alone. I think not only did you give this man your love, but you may have defined and put your whole self worth and importance as a human being into this man... and when this man was gone so was your self worth. I am not saying that being alone is the greatest thing in the world.. that you should enjoy it and relish your womanhood and get out there and conquer the world alone because that is just not realistic for most of us... we need other people in our lives in particualr a significant other to love us and who we can love back. But what I am saying is that you need to pick yourself up somehow, truly know within yourself that you are worthy of everything, that you are not defined by how those kids treated you in school, or how your boyfriend treated you- those are all superficial acts- your boyfriend was superficial- he was not real- so to define yourself by them makes you a superficial being yourself. I really believe you need to find a different perspective of yourself and it may be a slow process... but when you do that, I think this hurt that you endured during your childhood and all throught out your 20's and up until you ended it with this man will not effect you so much as it does now. It will still hurt but it will not be a hurt that will be able to destroy you or touch you as its does now.

    Last edited by soulster; 10-15-2004 at 12:03 PM.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 04:23 PM   #98
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by soulster
    But what I am saying is that you need to pick yourself up somehow, truly know within yourself that you are worthy of everything, that you are not defined by how those kids treated you in school, or how your boyfriend treated you- those are all superficial acts-
    I guess this is what I don't know how to do. Something just happened right now that's making me want to respond to this point specifically. The lady I sit next to at work made a cute comment to one of the bosses that "if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all." and he said "isn't that part of a song" and I offered where that's from, a song that they used to sing on Hee Haw and I sang it for him and he started to sing along and he said "yeah, that's where that's from" and the woman sitting next to me said "alright, ninispj(insert my real name here ) as if I was showing off or something. This sort of thing happens to me all the time. It's like, people want me to stay in a certain little pigeonhole, and as soon as I say something intelligent or accomplish something, it just throws everyone all off. My ex had a friend who would actually flick me in the throat with his middle finger against his thumb, you know how you flick someone, whenever I would say anything "uppity" and say "oh, shut up, what do you know?" Several years ago when I worked in retail, we had secret shoppers who would work for the store but pose as shoppers and secretly grade us on how we served them. I got a 100% score and the same month I sold the most custom curtains, so I won a gift certificate and these awards were presented to me during a store meeting and not one person congratulated me. They were all sour, and one co-worker, who I thought was my friend, made a comment like "gosh, must be nice to get prizes for doing nothing." I really hustled to sell those custom drapes, I really wanted to win that contest, and I did, but I didn't even get to enjoy it. There's not enough room here to detail every time this happens to me, but it's basically been the story of my life. I really don't want to sound like I'm whining or playing the victim, but it's just really hard to feel confident and full of self esteem when you're knocked down and "put in your place" if you get too "uppity" and accomplish something, and if you lay low and keep your light under a bushel, then you're mousy and not confident enough. This same guy who used to flick me told me my ex's wife is such a good catch because "she's confident, she takes care of things." I'm not confident enough. But if I try to show some confidence and some competence, I get flicked in the throat and told to shut up. I just don't understand where I fit in or how to relate to people in a way that doesnt' intimidate or threaten, yet still projects an air of competence and confidence. If you could shed some light, I'd be willing to listen because I'm at a total and complete loss.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 05:05 PM   #99
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Wow, Nini, I really, really feel for you. I didn't realize what you'd been going through for so long. That makes me really mad at all the insecure, mediocre people out there who somehow manage to identify the sensitive people (who won't stand up to their abuse) and target them for bullying. These are the same people who gathered together in high school, jealous of the really smart, attractive and confident people, and whispered bitterly about them while taking out their insecurity on people they viewed as easy targets...those insecure bullies are the followers/sheep of the world, I really can't stand those people. I wish I had some great advice for you, but all I can say is maybe you should start treating anyone who tries to "keep you down" like a bully, stand up to them and say, "don't talk to me like that, don't touch me like that, don't treat me like that." The reason they're so mean is they know they can get away with it, because they're bored and frustrated with their pathetic meaningless lives and wish they could be more like the people they admire. Ever noticed that happy, satisfied people don't need to beat other people down--in fact, they want to see everyone else be happy and confident as well?

    I don't know if this will help you, but in some ways I know how you feel. Almost every girl I ever met hated me, for absolutely no reason, without ever even talking to me. Part of this is because I was always surrounded by boys, both friends and admirers. Part of it was that I wasn't interested in gossip, shopping, makeup, etc., and that even though I rolled out of bed and went to school every day without doing my hair or wearing any makeup, I still looked a whole lot better than them. I think it was mostly that while most adolescent and teenage girls feel insecure about everything, especially their looks, I always liked the way I looked and liked my body how it was. I was lucky in some ways just to look conventionally pretty naturally, and to have nice stylish clothes so I appeared to fit in. But the other girls hated me SO much for not playing their game. The clique of girls who considered themselves popular in my very small, academically demanding private high school, didn't have any friends but each other. They had a running contest who could eat less, and wondered why no guys asked them out (because guys hate to hear girls constantly blab about superficial stuff especially weight, and would rather hang out with each other and the very few girls that weren't hung up on looks and gossip). There was one other girl in the same boat as me, but we were only kind of friends because her best guy friend became a serious boyfriend of mine, and we eventually broke up. She kept to herself more, wasn't so obvious about not respecting or liking the other girls and not caring what they thought, and so I think they laid off her a little more than they did with me.

    I would usually have only one girl friend at a time, who would end up stabbing me in the back, making up lies about me, and trying to steal my boyfriend of the moment. All the other girls sat around making up mean stories about me and telling everyone that I was this evil, horrible **** (I think they wished they had the opportunity to do some of those scandalous things, but maybe they were just bored). Probably they were just jealous, but it still really sucked. I was lucky enough to have a lot of supportive guy friends who cushioned me from all of this, but everyday when I walked through the hall girls would be whispering about me and snickering. The only thing I could do was put my nose in the air and act like I was better than them, which probably didn't help matters, but I don't think anything I did would have helped anyway. However, with that attitude, none of them would ever say anything to my face, and I think a lot of them were intimidated, so they instead picked on the shy, quiet loner girls. These girls didn't care enough to spend their whole lives obsessed with their hair, makeup, and expensive designer clothes. They also didn't have the confidence, or what may have appeared to be my arrogance, to shield themselves from teasing, and the "popular" (but only among themselves) girls would mercilessly pick on them. I am positive that if any one of those girls would have been like, hey, leave me the hell alone, how dare you talk to me like that!, the bullies, who were terribly insecure, would have been scared into backing down.

    Anyway, I'm sorry for this long rant about myself, but the only thing I can think of that you can do to change how people to treat you is just refuse to allow it anymore. In order to get them to respect you, you may have to intimidate them. You obviously have much more to offer than the average person, which is why they try to "keep you in your place." I don't think this will stop unless you try and become more assertive, try to project more confidence (even if you have to fake it), to send the message that you won't tolerate being pushed around anymore. Next time someone tries to put you down, try saying, "don't talk to me like that again." Most people will be so shocked (remember, these aren't confident people) that they will move on to an easier target. Try being polite but firm, but don't feel bad about being rude or intimidating because after all, they don't feel bad about acting like that toward you. If you refuse to act like a victim and take abuse, they will realize that they can't get away with it anymore. Anyone strong and confident enough to stand up to that attitude wouldn't be putting you down in the first place! Again, sorry to be so long-winded, but I really think this approach is might help you turn your attitude around. You really deserve so much better than what the world has shown you so far.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 05:37 PM   #100
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    ((Ninijspc)) your self-esteem is so shattered that any negativity sends you deeper into despair.
    You said you've done therapy and even meds in the past, but I would urge you to condsider doing so, again.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 06:36 PM   #101
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hey Nini,

    Hmmm, are you by any chance a virgo? I dont know, but all my friends that had problems similar to yours were virgos... anyway that is not important, but what is important is I feel you are addressing issues that if resolved will help you heal from all your hurt- which I feel has very little to do with your ex boyfriend. I totally agree with snails,esp her last paragraph... it is just about people being jeoulous- nothing more, nothing less... it is up to you how you want to handle it... You know what, if someone's self esteem is low enough they can actually see negative connations and remarks in statments that were given as compliments. I dont think you are there at all, just giving an example of what low self esteem can do to a person.
    One thing I wanted to add is people for the most part will only treat you not only by the way you want to be treated but also by the way you treat yourself. Are you sure that you yourself dont feel you are an underdog, someone who should be in the background, and not deserve to have the spotlight on youself??? It might be that a part of you does and that is projected onto others and those who are jeoulous and insecure will take advantage of that once they pick up on it. If you have confidence in yourself and dont for one minute believe that you are not fully worthy of everything, no one else will believe that otherwise and no one wil treat you as such. And even when you are fully confident in yourself there will still be those select few who cant stand you being in the spotlight, like snails said you then owe it to yourself to stand up for yourself... you might need to fake it for right now but if you work at it you will slowly start believing in it yourslef. It is a hard process but I dont think you cant get there, I think you can get there... I just believe you have been looking in the wrong direction...

    Last edited by soulster; 10-15-2004 at 07:19 PM.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 07:18 PM   #102
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Hi Nini and everybody else.........If i may say, this thread has come a long way. I don't know that any of us can "fix" the actual problem, but i feel a lot of people have offered valid reasons for the situation that Nini is in. It's not just about the ex b/f, it's about so many other things.

    Nini, you have provided so much more information in your posts recently and it's given everybody such a clearer view of what you have had to cope with from school, to college, the neighbourhood you grew up in, to relationships, to your current work place.

    I have to agree with snails on the fact that you need to be more assertive at work and any place else where you find yourself in a situation where somebody is making negative remarks towards you or is trying to shut you up, put you down etc. I say this due to my own personal experiences. Once i began work, i was unprepared for how bitchy adults can be to one another. Honestly, they are worse than children. My current supervisor is a total cow. From day one she never liked me and i view it as personal. Actually i was informed that prior to my transer, she referred to me as a "reject" and i've heard her refer to other new comers as "rejects". I have tried everything possible to be friends with her, but she wont even say good morning to me unless i say it first, i'll ask her how her weekend was, trying to foster a friendship of sorts to show her i'm not a bad person. She was supposed to help me with a whole bunch of new stuff i had to learn at this job, but she would only give me half the information so that i'd stuff up and she could accuse me of being hopeless. If she saw me coming towards her she'd walk off in another direction, acting busy, so i'd go get somebody else. She can't even look at me when i'm speaking to her and her mouth screws up like the cats behind!!! and she couldn't look more sour if she'd eaten a lemon. I think to myself, "i've not done a thing to you and yet you treat me as though i'd killed your entire family!!". I've tried talking to her about it and she says there isn't a problem. She makes out as though it's all in my head. Well others have noticed prior to me even talking about this with other staff. I'm not the only person she treats this way, but i've noticed a pattern. I've gotten sick of being nice to her all the time and walking on egg shells in case i slip up in some way. I don't say goodmorning to her anymore. In fact i don't speak to her unless its totally necessary. When something happens and she questions something i've done, i speak up for myself. Ever since i've been standing up for myself, she has backed off. I think she knows now that she can't intimidate me anymore. I also notice all the staff who stand up to her, she more or less leaves alone. Those who are meek and accepting of her behaviour, she keeps persecuting. This woman is insecure i believe, but she gets her strength from treating other people so nastily. Well she has to be getting something out of it or she wouldn't be doing it in the first place!!

    Unfortunately the world is full of insecure people who have to feed of other people who they see as being vulnerable. I guess they think it makes them look and feel better. In children it's understandable as most people think "oh they're just kids, they'll grow out of it", but i think a lot of these kids grow up to be adults who put others through a lot of misery.

    Guess what i'm saying is that i'm agreeing with snails and whoever else said that you need to stand up to yourself and pass some type of remark to these people so they know you are onto them, but you wont allow them to hurt you in such a way.

    One other thing, when you mentioned your neighbourhood, you mentioned that it was very conservative and white, but that you weren't. Could it also be a racial thing? Sorry if that's too personal, i don't mean to pry, just that i'm from Australia and we hear so many things about the States and racial intolerance etc. So i was just wondering if in school the bullying wasn't in some way racial, as well as the typical school bullying which happens.

    Another question, do you feel that your views and feelings regarding your situation have somewhat altered since you first began this thread? I feel i have a much better understanding of your situation and feel that even i've learned things from other posters and even your own postings. I feel that life is so short and has gone by so quickly (i'll be 38 in Dec.) there are so many things i want to do and i keep putting them off. Makes me realise that i should get myself into gear and make some possible changes in my life.

    I don't think any one of us can actually fix the issues at hand, it's up to Nini to do. Nini, have you thought about your other goals in life, apart from finding a soul mate to fulfill your life? How about concentrating on those for now b/c you can't just make a guy walk into your life. Not meaning to scare you, but it might not happen till you are 45 and i don't think it's healthy just frittering away the next 5 years. I do hope he comes your way much sooner, but in life, nothing is 100% so between now and then you need to get as much enjoyment out of life as is possible.

    Best wishes and take care

    ps: aren't there courses for empowering people and making them stronger and giving the ability to stand up to people and situations which are negative? I wonder if they are worth doing?

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 07:25 PM   #103
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    You obviously have much more to offer than the average person, which is why they try to "keep you in your place." I don't think this will stop unless you try and become more assertive, try to project more confidence (even if you have to fake it), to send the message that you won't tolerate being pushed around anymore. Next time someone tries to put you down, try saying, "don't talk to me like that again." Most people will be so shocked (remember, these aren't confident people) that they will move on to an easier target. Try being polite but firm, but don't feel bad about being rude or intimidating because after all, they don't feel bad about acting like that toward you. If you refuse to act like a victim and take abuse, they will realize that they can't get away with it anymore. Anyone strong and confident enough to stand up to that attitude wouldn't be putting you down in the first place! Again, sorry to be so long-winded, but I really think this approach is might help you turn your attitude around. You really deserve so much better than what the world has shown you so far.
    Absolultely! Snails is so smart Unfortunately, there are a lot of petty, small, insecure little people in this world who feel threatened by anyone they even perceive as "better" than them. It's their problem, not yours. I was often teased in school because I wasn't the same religion as the majority. There's always some excuse for stupid small minded people to try to diminish someone else. Of course, when you're young you don't know this and you start taking it personally. It took me a long time to realize that not everyone has your best interest in mind or good intentions towards you, even if some of them act nice to your face (that's the worst kind). I remember how I always thought this one woman liked me and was my friend in college. She was always nice and sweet to me. Little did I know that she secretly hated me because I had a good figure and she didn't. My friend told me that she would call me a "skinny bi***" behind my back and tried to tell the guys from my class who thought I was attractive that I was not. I was SO shocked. Why would she go to such lengths to try to diminish me in other people's eyes. Why would she be Sooo petty?? I was always very nice and friendly to her, never said anything critical or insensitive. Nor did I act in any obnoxious way in general, trying to show off or make people jealous of me. No, I was dressing nice but not over the top, and I am not a flashy person, so I still have NO clue why this woman hated me so much. Anyway, this is just an example and the truth is, there's always going to be someone who does not like you for no reason whatsoever. But you cannot, simply cannot place your worth on such people's opinions. That's including your ex and his ridiculous views. I am slightly surprised that after hearing his bizarre "rules" you didn't simply turn around and run away from him! I think I would have. Just because some people didn't treat you right doesn't mean that you don't deserve a better treatment. And again I will repeat that ONE man is not enough to consider yourself a failure when it comes to love. I've dated a few men and it didn't work out with ANY of them--what am I supposed to think?? Am I supposed to kill myself because I happened to get involved with some jerks who acted great in the beginning and fooled me? Believe me, sometimes I feel like a complete idiot that I've allowed similar situations to happen more than once, but I guess for some reason I had to go through these experiences. I don't know if it's better not to date at all or to date losers...Hmm, tough question. I'm still hoping there's some happy medium.

     
    Old 10-15-2004, 07:37 PM   #104
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    OH, and Audrey is also right about not being to nice to obnoxious people! There was a woman like that superviser at my previous job too, though luckily I didn't report to her. I would always smile and say "hello" when I passed her in the hallway, but she would just ignore me and pout her lips and turn her nose up in a quite ostentatious way. It used to drive me nuts and I was so hurt by her completely unreasonable attitude. But after a while, I said "screw it, I'm not going to be friendly to some witch who thinks she's better than me." I started ignoring her as well, no more smiles or friendly hellos, I treated her like air. Guess what? She started saying "hi" to me and trying to chat me up in the cafeteria! For the rest of my working days there she remained pleasant and friendly to me. But even if she didn't, the fact is, I just didn't care.

     
    Old 10-16-2004, 03:29 PM   #105
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    Re: I'd be glad to hear input if you've got some...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kay33
    ((Ninijspc)) your self-esteem is so shattered that any negativity sends you deeper into despair.
    You said you've done therapy and even meds in the past, but I would urge you to condsider doing so, again.
    I dont think her self esteem is so shattered. Come on that is a bit extreme, dont you think?

     
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