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    Old 03-06-2005, 01:17 AM   #31
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pakemuumama
    Index, have you ever tried enrolling your son in art, filmmaking, music or theater lessons or camp? He might not find himself to be so 'weird' if he were among other creative types.
    He currently has no interest whatsoever in any of those. He played the trombone for a couple of years and has done extra-curricular art. He's too self-conscious to enjoy drama. Hmmm, filmmaking.....perhaps....as long as he was doing the filming and not the acting. Wonder where I could find something like that.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    I hope things go well for you but just in case down the line it doesn't I hope you will at least consider another path.
    Jennita, please go back and reread my first post in this thread. If there's another path that I've missed, I'd truly like to know.

    I believe wholeheartedly that ADHD is a BIOLOGICAL disorder (as well as a personality variance). I DON'T believe that medication is the only answer. Medicating my son was a last resort. He was 13 before we started ADD medication. I wouldn't go so far as to say that things are "going well" for him. Socially, meds have helped some. He doesn't act quite as "weird" as he did before. Academically, he's struggling. He's in danger of flunking out of international school. I've spent the weekend crying my heart out, partially from teacher conferences and partially from another problem.

    His heart rate is somewhat elevated. Both the shrink and the pediatrician aren't concerned, but with all the recent news, I am (he's not on Adderall, but IS taking a long-acting stimulant along with Strattera). So, AMA, I'm going to wean his dosage slowly, hoping that I can find a point where he still derives some benefit but with a more normal heart rate. In doing that, things may deteriorate further academically and socially, but what else can I do????

    My son is an extreme case. At the age of 14, without medication, he cannot pay attention long enough to follow sequential directions like "Put away your book, get out your workbook and turn to page 20" or "Take your school shoes to your room, get your tennis shoes and get in the car. We're going to a movie." He can't do it.

    That's why it's a bit of a reach for me to accept that he's simply a visual-spatial learner or that he's just the creative type. His problems are more far reaching than that.

    Despite my arguments FOR the medical model, I AM open to other suggestions.

    Last edited by index.html; 03-06-2005 at 03:31 AM. Reason: Don't I always?

     
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    Old 03-06-2005, 08:33 AM   #32
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Index, I am not sure where you can find filmmaking classes except perhaps at a local college continuing ed program (which are open to everyone). You could also buy your son a video camera and let him loose.

    I haven't looked into it thoroughly myself yet, but have you ever looked into Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP)? I have heard good things, especially in terms of relating to sequentials like those you've mentioned (that kind of sequential grouping is a linear thought process. We think of all these things at once, globally, without any particular order involved, which is why we get paralyzed/confused and therefore can't make decisions easily and procrastinate).

    I was turned on to a site just recently (on Hartmann's site, I was asking a math related question) detailing NLP teaching techniques related to "ADD" type thinkers. Wish I could post a link, but it's against the rules.

    If you want me to detail what techniques exactly I have found that help me, I can post them.

     
    Old 03-06-2005, 10:37 AM   #33
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by index.html
    He currently has no interest whatsoever in any of those. He played the trombone for a couple of years and has done extra-curricular art. He's too self-conscious to enjoy drama. Hmmm, filmmaking.....perhaps....as long as he was doing the filming and not the acting. Wonder where I could find something like that.


    Jennita, please go back and reread my first post in this thread. If there's another path that I've missed, I'd truly like to know.

    I believe wholeheartedly that ADHD is a BIOLOGICAL disorder (as well as a personality variance). I DON'T believe that medication is the only answer. Medicating my son was a last resort. He was 13 before we started ADD medication. I wouldn't go so far as to say that things are "going well" for him. Socially, meds have helped some. He doesn't act quite as "weird" as he did before. Academically, he's struggling. He's in danger of flunking out of international school. I've spent the weekend crying my heart out, partially from teacher conferences and partially from another problem.

    His heart rate is somewhat elevated. Both the shrink and the pediatrician aren't concerned, but with all the recent news, I am (he's not on Adderall, but IS taking a long-acting stimulant along with Strattera). So, AMA, I'm going to wean his dosage slowly, hoping that I can find a point where he still derives some benefit but with a more normal heart rate. In doing that, things may deteriorate further academically and socially, but what else can I do????

    My son is an extreme case. At the age of 14, without medication, he cannot pay attention long enough to follow sequential directions like "Put away your book, get out your workbook and turn to page 20" or "Take your school shoes to your room, get your tennis shoes and get in the car. We're going to a movie." He can't do it.

    That's why it's a bit of a reach for me to accept that he's simply a visual-spatial learner or that he's just the creative type. His problems are more far reaching than that.

    Despite my arguments FOR the medical model, I AM open to other suggestions.
    I meant another path if someday the drugs don't work or cause health problems. Well, it sounds like you are definately putting his health first here with the reduction of the meds. Who knows, could be less meds may work anyway without effecting his heart, lets hope.

    The sad part of all of this is, even when drugs work, most times tolerance develops to the effects of the drugs, so even higher doses may some day not work, and with higher doses comes much higher risks. Adding another med is also a course, apparentely your doctor took this course, but again tolerance can develop and also more drugs=more complications/risks.

    I feel bad for you that your son is having such a severe problem with learning. This world is so competitive and kids do need to keep up or be left out, I wish I could solve this problem for you, I know you must suffer watching him struggle.

    I wish I knew more...I know alot about drugs and their effects/problems.. however, I don't know much about what else really, really works for these kids, the "alternative" plans. I've heard some people say that nutrition and supplements(like fish oil and B-vitamins) do the trick; others swear by other means of learning....my nephew has had some occassional tutoring and sports they say helped him.

    But I know some of these things won't work for some kids.

    I hope the information that pakemuumama has given you may help your son, it sounds like she knows alot more about the alternatives than I do.

    Sorry for all the fuss, I am sometimes too passionate about the dangers of the drugs they give to what seems like way too many kids and adults alike.

    But in my passion it looks like I forgot that I'm dealing with a mother here who is completely torn up by her son's pain and is willing to do anything that will help him... for that I have overlooked I am truly sorry and hope you will not feel ill towards me and my comments.

    I wish you the best in solving this problem and at the same time protecting his health and well being.

     
    Old 03-07-2005, 08:30 AM   #34
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    I am truly sorry and hope you will not feel ill towards me and my comments...
    No worries, Jennita.

    I'm still feeling pretty blue about my son's situation, but I am sure I will be back to showing you the errors in your thinking soon...

     
    Old 03-07-2005, 10:28 AM   #35
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by index.html
    No worries, Jennita.

    I'm still feeling pretty blue about my son's situation, but I am sure I will be back to showing you the errors in your thinking soon...
    Ahhhhaaa, yes, we will meet again for battle
    But seriously, it's amazing how a person can pick up certain emotions even through cyberspace, for all our heated debating, I suddenly felt that despair from you....I really, really do hope your son will get better, I hope you find an answer and that he will grow up a healthy and happy person.

    Last edited by Jennita; 03-07-2005 at 10:28 AM.

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 07:05 AM   #36
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    I really, really do hope your son will get better, I hope you find an answer and that he will grow up a healthy and happy person.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    We can learn from each other. Maybe now you see that many of us here are giving our children meds as a last resort. We have tried - and are trying - everything else we can think of. And many of us aren't doing it because we want "A" students. Some of us just want our kids to pass from one grade to the next.

    I've also learned alot. It came as quite a surprise to me that there are parents who get prescriptions for stimulants just because they happened to mention to the doctor that little Johnny was hyper. Or worse, because one teacher complained he was hyper. I thought we had all tried countless other avenues first. Silly me!

     
    Old 03-08-2005, 07:49 AM   #37
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheMattFact
    What about people who need glasses to see? Should we just say “oh they were born with this, so they just need to adapt!” Benjamin Franklin was just a crock when he invented bifocals! We don't need to FIX eyesight! NOOOOO! Just stick them in their own continent and let them stumble around like buffoons!

    Same thing with people with ADD! Give them the state of Texas to live in! We won’t help them concentrate! We will just stick them with a bunch of people just like them, so nobody will get upset that their life just never seems to work out because everybody has the same problem!

    Ignorance is bliss!
    Amen to that!

     
    Old 06-05-2005, 01:21 AM   #38
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    So Glad You Asked, It Is Not Only A Reasonable Question, But Has Now Just Started To Hit The Biways.The Idea That Suggests That Add Is Not A Disorder At All But More Of A Different Brain Orientation. I Think This May Be True For Certain People While Others May Have Similar Symptoms And Various Other Problems. The Symptoms Of Add Can Be Similar In Lots Of People While The Causes Can Range From Brain Trama, Brain Chemistry, Or Genetics. There Truly Is Lots More Work To Be Done On This Subject, And It Is Presently Being Discussed That Add May Not Be A Disorder At All. I Think In The Future We Will Begin To Classify And Identify People Into Specific Catagories, Such As, The Genuis Types With The Fast Thinking Minds, The Trauma Types Who May Have Brain Damage For Various Reasons And Truly May Not Be Able To Concentrate Not Because Their Thoughts Are Moving To Fast But For Some Other Reason. Just Because Someone Can't Concentrate Does Not Mean He Has Add, Or Maybe He Does And The Genuis Types Who Can Think So Fast (like Your Brain Saying Feed Me I'm Hungry Can't Wait Must Move On), Are Really Just People Who Think And Function Differently From Others. Although We Are Still Learning, It Is Clear That There Is Something Going On In The Brain No Matter What The Original Cause, Which Makes It Clear That It IS Much More Than Personality, But May Have Physiological Dimensions.

    Last edited by GENIUS?; 06-05-2005 at 01:27 AM. Reason: NEED TO ADD WORD "IS"

     
    Old 06-05-2005, 12:28 PM   #39
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Ditto, Double Ditto, Triple Ditto on index.html's post.

    If that doesn't work, try my brain for a day and you'll have all the empirical data you want - plus some.

    When someone does everything in their power^3 and still can't concentrate, that is a disorder, not a personality type. My personality type is extroverted and geeky. My disorder is ADD.

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    Old 06-08-2005, 10:45 AM   #40
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GENIUS?
    So Glad You Asked, It Is Not Only A Reasonable Question, But Has Now Just Started To Hit The Biways.The Idea That Suggests That Add Is Not A Disorder At All But More Of A Different Brain Orientation. I Think This May Be True For Certain People While Others May Have Similar Symptoms And Various Other Problems. The Symptoms Of Add Can Be Similar In Lots Of People While The Causes Can Range From Brain Trama, Brain Chemistry, Or Genetics. There Truly Is Lots More Work To Be Done On This Subject, And It Is Presently Being Discussed That Add May Not Be A Disorder At All. I Think In The Future We Will Begin To Classify And Identify People Into Specific Catagories, Such As, The Genuis Types With The Fast Thinking Minds, The Trauma Types Who May Have Brain Damage For Various Reasons And Truly May Not Be Able To Concentrate Not Because Their Thoughts Are Moving To Fast But For Some Other Reason. Just Because Someone Can't Concentrate Does Not Mean He Has Add, Or Maybe He Does And The Genuis Types Who Can Think So Fast (like Your Brain Saying Feed Me I'm Hungry Can't Wait Must Move On), Are Really Just People Who Think And Function Differently From Others. Although We Are Still Learning, It Is Clear That There Is Something Going On In The Brain No Matter What The Original Cause, Which Makes It Clear That It IS Much More Than Personality, But May Have Physiological Dimensions.
    I believe this too, that difference does not equal disorder or illness....it takes different ingrediants to bake a cake, not just one and certainly drugs that can create dependancy, addiction, tolerance and withdrawals should not be considered the only choice in dealing with such differences nor should psychiatry be allowed to label such differences as mental illness.

     
    Old 06-16-2005, 04:52 PM   #41
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Wow, this was a GREAT thread. Excellent arguments on both sides. I can see that there are some highly intelligent folks around here!

    I do not have ADHD myself, but I am looking into the possibility that my 4 year old son does. He currently has a dx of mood disorder NOS/anxiety/ODD. We started him this week on Trileptal, an anticonvulsant med, used off-label to treat mood disorder/bipolar. If you had told me 2 years ago that I would have made this decision, I would have told you you were nuts. But when your 4 year old son goes into violent rages and tries to hurt anyone/anything in his path, and threatens his teacher that he's going to get a knife and stab her in the heart, well, your outlook tends to change a bit. To medicate or not was the hardest decision I've ever faced, but I had tried everything else and nothing was working. I hope I've made the right choice, and don't end up later regretting it.

    I have a question for those of you with ADHD. What were you like as a young child? Did you have rage attacks and violent behavior? His rage attacks seem to result from frustration and being told no. I'm doing my own research by asking adults with ADHD/Bipolar/Asperger's, etc what they were like as children, since these illnesses can present differently at different ages.

    Thanks for any input you can give,
    Jen

     
    Old 06-16-2005, 10:31 PM   #42
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rhiannon163
    Wow, this was a GREAT thread. Excellent arguments on both sides. I can see that there are some highly intelligent folks around here!

    I do not have ADHD myself, but I am looking into the possibility that my 4 year old son does. He currently has a dx of mood disorder NOS/anxiety/ODD. We started him this week on Trileptal, an anticonvulsant med, used off-label to treat mood disorder/bipolar. If you had told me 2 years ago that I would have made this decision, I would have told you you were nuts. But when your 4 year old son goes into violent rages and tries to hurt anyone/anything in his path, and threatens his teacher that he's going to get a knife and stab her in the heart, well, your outlook tends to change a bit. To medicate or not was the hardest decision I've ever faced, but I had tried everything else and nothing was working. I hope I've made the right choice, and don't end up later regretting it.

    I have a question for those of you with ADHD. What were you like as a young child? Did you have rage attacks and violent behavior? His rage attacks seem to result from frustration and being told no. I'm doing my own research by asking adults with ADHD/Bipolar/Asperger's, etc what they were like as children, since these illnesses can present differently at different ages.

    Thanks for any input you can give,
    Jen
    My nephew ADHD diagnoised never had rage but Adderall did make him more aggressive/definant when he was on it. He's on nothing now.

    We had a violent type neighboor kid like that who wasn't ADHD so I'm thinking he outgrew it or maybe when he was able to override his mothers' very strict diet techniques(she was hypoglycemic and decided the whole family had to measure food and no sugar whatsoever) when he turned into a teen and was able to get ahold of different foods, that his increase in food and some sugar did make him feel better or less violent, because he is fine now.

    Last edited by Jennita; 06-16-2005 at 10:36 PM.

     
    Old 06-16-2005, 11:16 PM   #43
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    Wink Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    I completely agree that ADD is not only a personality, bu also an illness. I am a very creative person and I am very proud of the things that make me me, but when going to a university where you are expected to READ and PAY ATTENTION, in order to good grades, life becomes very difficult. In college, teachers do not have the extra time it takes to teach a student with such learning problems. It is virtually impossible for me to get past the first paragraph within an hour if there are no pictures, diagrams, or anything exciting to keep me interested.
    Like I said before, I am very happy that I am the creative, unique person that I am, but my chances at a solid career with people that are patient with my concentration problems, is very unlikely, or difficult at the least, so I would definitely say that it is also an illness.

     
    Old 06-17-2005, 08:44 AM   #44
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    Angry Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    My first son is 35 now, yes, a long time ago when he was born. I was young and while I was pregnant I read many books on being pregnant and child-rearing. I was 4 mos pregnant before I found out I was. I had strange symptons but when I went to the doctor I showed negative; they didn't have this new technology in medicine them. I didn't drink alcohol or do any drugs or take any medications which is good. When I found out, I even stopped drinking coffee and had one cup of hot tea ever afternoon while at work. During my pregnancy there was lots of stress in my life, however.

    When he was born, I had an infection and they didn't bring him to me for a couple of days. When they did bring him to me to feed him by bottle. During that time obs discouraged breast feeding. Well, I couldn't get him to feed with the bottle. I was so nervous and the nurse had to help me learn how to feed him. After going home my life was still very stressful. During that time it was the in thing to use a certain psycology with children. You talk to them a certain way. Never any harsh punishment whick was fine with my because I was totally against spanking or talking harshly.

    Well, when he was a baby, he cried constantly.I didn't know why; pediatricians said it was colic. Well, I found out the definition of hyperactivity.
    I was always worn out. He misbehaved every place we went. Going to the grocery store was a nightmare. Many, many time I had to just leave the basket of groceries in the middle of the store and go home. After trying a few day-care facilities and either I didn't like it or it was a huge chore to get him in the day-care. One very good Christian day-care, the staff would call me at work and tell me that they were concerned about him because he didn't associate with other children but wanted to talk to the adults and if that wasn't bad enought, he told the most outragous stories to them and they knew they couldn't be true and, of course, they werent. I finally found an elderly lady that was so wonderful and she kept him in her home. Once a week her daughter took her out for errands and then to a nice cafeteria for lunch. His behavior was terrible. At the cafeteria, he got out of his chair and ran all over the cafeteria and they were trying to catch him as well as other customer in the cafeteria. She finally stopped the weekly outing because she couldn't handle him. I felt so bad. She loved him and he was good at her house but he constantly wanted to visit the residents living in the duplex house. They were crazy about him. When he was 4 I knew he was sick and took him to the doctor immediately because I always knew he was sick before the doctor did. The next day he had a very high fever and I took him to the doctor and he was admitted to the hospital. He had a collapsed lung. They kept him for several weeks and I stayed there constantly except going home to clean up and get more clothes. While the was there, he had an IV hooked to him but that didn't stop him. He jumped out of the bed pulling out the IV and ran up and down the hall stopping at the nurses desk to visit with the nurses and doctors. I was exhausted and scared and frustrated and also pregnant with my second son but didn't know. They first said they thought he had cystic fibrosis and I was devastated. Then they said it wasn't but just didn't know. After quitting a new job, I had to call and tell them I wouldn't be back. I told the doctors, either give me an accurate, or let us go home. They did but said they just didn't know what caused the problem. We went home with a "breathing machine" which he had to have treatment several time a day. I took him to the library every other day and quickly checked out stacks of books and read to him constantly. The peditrician only mention medication but I had never heard of that them. He never took medication but the hyperactivity never stopped and when he was 7 and my younger son was 2. Again, I quite a very good job and had just gotten a promotion, but I couldn't stand my kids being in day-care but I was single and no child-support, I had to work. So I got a job at the day-care center. I carried my 2 year-old on my hip while trying to control a room-full of wild kids until they told me I had to put him his age group. When it was time for my 7 year-old had to get on the bus to go to school he had a huge tantrum every time. The director and staff would have to carry him out kicking and screaming to the bus. At that time he started hitting my and kicking me every time I tried to dicipline him. I was still using the same mild-psychology of taling at certain way to him and never spanking. One of the staff's husband was in medical school and came to the center to "view" him. I was so embarrased and felt like such a failure as a parent and I had tried to do every thing right. The med student recommend therapy. We went and she suggested "tough love" althought it wasn't called that then. It was just too hard for me to do. As he got older it just got harder. In school, they told me he was capable to make straight "A's" but he spent too much talking to other students in class and disrupting the class. His behaviour just got much much worse when he reached early teen. He became violent with other as well as with me. I had a very good job and beginning to miss a lot of work because I was so upset and depressed. Many times he would get angry and started banging his head on walls and cars. He destroyed his room at our apartment. Again, I sought therapy. What a waste. He was so smart that when we were there out-smarted everyone and acted as though nothing was wrong at all. He was hurting my younger son and threating me. He made good grades in school without ever studying. Finally, he graduated and immediately joined the Army. I thought this would be very good for him but I NEVER anticipated a war. The Gulf War. He had just finished boot camp and volunteered to go overseas. I thought my life would be a lot less stressful but with him over there I finally had a "breakdown" and ended up in the hospital. The war ended and he came home and lived with me. I was so grateful and my prayers were answered and he came home alive and fine.He was like a new person. So disciplined and grown-up. Well, his problem weren't over. He moved out and got had a job and his own apartment. He was like the perfect gentlement but things kept happing. I had to bail him of of jail because he fired a gun in the courtyard of his apartment but acted like it was no big deal. There were still many incidents. Fighting a lot. Those temper tantrums! He just seemed to have so much anger and yet was also the perfect gentlement.

    He married in his late twenties which is something I tried to force into his head since a very young age. He married a wonderful woman and they have two beautiful daughters and they are "perfect" parents. He is so sensitive and loving. But there were still some problems that he didn't discuss with me very much. He was having depression at times. He finally saw a doctor and was given an anti-depressant which he said it did help. Just not that long ago his wife told me he was bi-polar. My mother was bi-polar as am I and my brother.
    I just recently read an article on this Web Site about bi-polar in children. I had never heard of that but things started to finally make sense. I had never heard of bi-polar in children. I have saved the article that I read and at some time give it to my son because this can be heredity as in my case. My mother had terrible episodes and I never understand why she behaved that way, it was just known to all of us to never do anything to upset her. It was always like "walking on eggs" all the time. Also my younger son is bi-polar but his acted out in a different way and he managed to keep everying going on with him from me. They are both successful and very good men but things will never be just right.

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    Old 06-18-2005, 04:12 AM   #45
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    Re: Has anyone ever considered that "ADD" could simply be a personality type??

    I think is is a major component of personality. My therapist POV is that its been around since the begining of time but under modern and/or western socialization expectations & constraints, it has become a hurdle for most thus an unfavorable trait to have undiagnosed/untreated. My therapist (who specializes in the field) said that in caveman/woman days, the AD/HD'er most likely was the watchkeeper of the clan, able to sustain long periods of patrols, keen senses, highly alert, crisp memory served them well. Conformity and pressures of today have become the catalyst to ADD arriving on the map.
    Does this make any sense? Just another one of my insomnia nites!

     
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