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    Old 05-15-2005, 02:02 PM   #46
    SweetJade1
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hairy_gurl
    Thanks! Can my GP prescribe spiro? Perhaps I can start going on that, and then I can take a hormone test when I get back from my holiday in September.

    Or is it safe to go on spiro without a doctor´s prescription? If I just follow the instructions and take 200mg a day.. ?!?
    So what did you end up doing? A GP MAY prescribe spiro if he/she is knowledagable about what it can do for acne or hirsutism issues. However your best bet is to get that referral to an Endocrinologist. Also, because some people can be allergic to spiro, some people can experience irregular cycles on spiro (needing BC), and because it can one day harm your liver it's important to be under a doctors supervision. So I wouldn't take this w/o a doctors supervision, especially when first starting out becuase you want to know if your body can handle such a high dose safely by getting periodic blood work done.

     
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    Old 05-15-2005, 02:42 PM   #47
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stasia12
    this is really interesting-but i have few questions. one is-in what ethnicities is hirsutism normal?also, id like to know sweetjade, why you think diet has helped you so much as far as your hormornes are concerned-it seems strange that it cant be balanced by drugs. I also have similar symptoms, but I thought it was getting older. I have regular periods and all that, but I do have excess hair around the belly, alot on my toes, some on my chest/nipples, and now i get on the chin all the time-and Im not that old. I dont usually get cystic acne though, but Ive had moderate acne since I was about 14 or 15 and am now 29-and the hair stuff started happening four years ago.
    OK, this is what I've heard about acne. That 90% of acne sufferers merely are just SENSITIVE to "regular" amounts of androgen hormones and the rest of us actually do produce too much hormones. Thus why most acne sufferers skin usually calms back down once puberty is over. The same rule also applies when it comes to treating hirsutism. Once you develop that secondary hair follicle, no matter how little androgens you produce, that hair follicle will respond to that amount of androgens. Therefore, the sooner one gets dx, the sooner they can get treated properly, and the more likely they can prevent the further development of unwanted hair.

    I found out the hard way that not being on Spironolactone for 6 months after taking it for 6 years that I was only suppressing my hair follicles abilitity to respond to androgens because the Spiro was blocking the androgen receptor. I noticed that I started to develop facial hair and more hair on other areas so I went back on Spiro for a few months. I also did some other things to help suppress this (dabbling with various supplements) but because I have not been to a doctor or Endocrinologist in almost 2 years I stopped taking the spiro. I don't want to take a drug unless I can be monitored. So I haven't taken Spiro in at least 6 months and it's funny because the hair on my body and face isn't worsening. In fact it looks like some of it is falling out!

    Those results may indeed be due to my diet. I know it's hard for you to understand why drugs wouldn't work and a diet would, but the key to understanding this is that your diet supplies the nutrients neccessary for certain other enzymes, hormones, growth factors, and inflammatory products to exist. Therefore by altering your diet and physical activity, one can alter the amounts of the above products, and thus can control their acne and sometimes even a certain amount of hirsutism.

    See, the medications work to either supress the amount of DHT you produce, to bind the amount of Free Testosterone (estrogen - BC, thyroid drugs, insulin sensitizing drugs/supplements) that's active, or to prevent the amount of androgens that bind to the androgen receptors. Yet IF you can find the right diet, you can do ALL of the same things! Therefore you can essentially take both medications, exercise, and follow the right dietary regimen if your problems are particularly stubborn, but some people have found that they do well just doing diet alone. However when you only take the medications, and you continue to eat in a way that favors the above reactions, you are actually OPPOSING the job that your medication is meant to do. The wrong diet for your genetic & body type can actually be antagonistic to any medication or supplement that you use. Hence why, in most treatment protocols it not only mentions that you take the medication but to also watch your sugar or fat intake etc (depending on the disorder). Yet most people feel that some little pill, will solve their problems....not always.

    In fact the best control I had over my hirstusim was one I was on Spiro AND my diet. This provided me the best combination because my diet reduces the amount of testosterone that I produce, it reduces the amount of free testosterone, which means it reduces the amount of androgens that will bind to the androgen receptor, thus it does reduce the amount of DHT I produce to some extent. However because I quite clearly still produce enough DHT for my hair follicles to respond to, this is where spiro comes in because it will block the androgen receptors, thus further reducing the amount of DHT I produce. Spiros job is dose dependent so the more the you take, the less DHT you will produce. Of course you want the most effective lowest dose and this can be 50mg for some women or 200mg for others. In my case regarding acne, I may have had to go on 300mg or more, because 200mg wasn't effective enough (100mg with diet works well for hirstusim though).

    Now I want to mention something to you about fats, particularly trans fats. In fact this also applies to saturated fats as both this type and trans tats will ingrease your growth factor production. Growth factors are wonderful thing, but if you overproduce the wrong ones, well you've set up the prefect fertilizer for unwanted hair (and acne). See IGF-1 is used to help grow hair on our scalp, body, as well as any other type of cell and seems to be in abundance when it comes to dealing with tumors or cancer. Yet for this purpose, in excess and in the wrong place, hirsutim can result. Furthermore because of the prolonged presence of IGF-1 in the body, other growth factor or pro-inflammatory cytokines will present themselves that will further increase the growth of unwanted hair. What I discovered AFTER changing my diet was that I was consuming more trans fats (started eating microwavable popcorn more often and other gluten-free items) and this affected my pore size and at one point I thought it was giving me blackheads. Yet when I looked at the pores (on & around my nose area) those weren't black heads but were actual HAIRS!!!

    This happened to 2 other people when they altered their diets and well for me the answer was no trans fats whatsoever. I don't care if that package says "no trans fats" or "0 trans fats" if the ingredients mention Partially Hydrogenated Oil (trans fat) or even Hydrogenated Oil (may have some partially hydrogenated oil) then I do not eat it. What I noticed was my enlarged pores shrank down to the smallest I've ever known them to be since before puberty and those hairs fell out! Not only that, but I noticed that the pores on my thighs and some of those hairs also shrank and fell out. So this MAY have been the reason I developed facial hair because not only does IGF-1 increase growth of cells, but it is also 10x more potent than insulin and can actually cal forth androgen hormones as well.

    It's amazing the difference pore size can make. With enlarged pores I don't look as good, but with them smaller I seem like a different person. My face is smoother and more refined looking and I really like it. I personally don't avoid animal saturated fat, but I will say that most of my meat is lean and I don't usually eat fried foods. The only thing that I eat regularly fried would be the potato chips and they are cooked in sunflower oil. Yet I have noted that when I do eat other types of fried food that my pores get puffier but dont usually get larger. When I do get trans fats in my diet, it takes about 2 weeks to undo the damage done in terms of pore size and those hairs eventually fall out some time around then too.

    Now I have not had my hormones checked in almost 2 years so I don't know how much Free Testosterone or DHEA I have in excess. My Testosterone and DHEA-S were within the normal ranges, but yes either DHEA or DHEA-S are elevated when dealing with hirsutism issues. However I do know that based on looking at abstracts and full texts journal articles that depending on one's disorder medication works, diet works more, and diet and exercise work even better. All of these can reduce your hormone production or activity, but again when it comes to hirsutism, you may need to take some sort of medication or supplement to further block DHT production/activity for the rest of your life....or go for laser treatment ;-)

    Hope that helped some

    P.S. I'm definately not growing out of acne. I can still eat sugar, HFCS and I will breakout. I can still consume trans fats and trigger enlarged pores and weird hair growth, etc. I have the power to cease 99% of my acne or activate 100% of it, but I think you know what I've chosen.

    Last edited by SweetJade1; 05-15-2005 at 03:14 PM.

     
    Old 07-17-2005, 06:39 PM   #48
    JanetinHouston
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Yes, with my hirsutism, I did have to take medication for under two years. It was called Deltasone. I went to an endocrinologist to run the necessary tests. I later asked my derm why he didn't test me and he said he didn't realize it was that bad. It was. Upon getting the results of my tests, he said that this was one of the worst cases he'd seen (as far as my test results). But even though I was a bad case, I didn't have to stay on meds that long.

    Last edited by moderator2; 09-25-2005 at 09:41 AM. Reason: please delete the long quotes

     
    Old 07-17-2005, 07:12 PM   #49
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    hi- i am amazed by the knowlege you people have!!!
    is the irregular/absent period thing always a symptom? just wondering cuz i am haaaaaaaaairy and have acne too, but i have normal periods, and concieved easily, too easily LOL -i had 2 very healthy babies, (but did have 2 miscarriages i am not sure if that would have something to do with it), but i did ask my doctor to test my hormones, and she refused! i have also asked to be refered to an endocrinologist, which she also refused. she said some people are just more hairy, this was about a year ago (i am 24) and living with these issues this long have kinda learned to deal with them. i know i asked my mom about this when i started going through puberty (age 12) and she basically had the same attitude as my doctor, like i was being stupid thinking i wasn't normal......i wonder why they have this attitude ??!! its no wonder most women don't get diagnosed !!
    p.s. forgot to mention was put on numerous antibiotics for acne, and for other things in the past couple years--I DESPISE ANTIBIOTICS- THEY ARE THE WORST THING I HAVE EVER DONE TO MY BODY, and i have been on alot of meds in my life!! so i eventually asked for spiro, and the doctor was like, we don't prescribe that for acne!? sent me to the derm and i start accutane tomorrow...

    Last edited by realsad; 07-17-2005 at 07:24 PM. Reason: forgot something

     
    Old 07-17-2005, 10:24 PM   #50
    SweetJade1
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by realsad
    hi- i am amazed by the knowlege you people have!!!
    is the irregular/absent period thing always a symptom? just wondering cuz i am haaaaaaaaairy and have acne too, but i have normal periods, and concieved easily, too easily LOL -i had 2 very healthy babies, (but did have 2 miscarriages i am not sure if that would have something to do with it), but i did ask my doctor to test my hormones, and she refused! i have also asked to be refered to an endocrinologist, which she also refused. she said some people are just more hairy, this was about a year ago (i am 24) and living with these issues this long have kinda learned to deal with them. i know i asked my mom about this when i started going through puberty (age 12) and she basically had the same attitude as my doctor, like i was being stupid thinking i wasn't normal......i wonder why they have this attitude ??!! its no wonder most women don't get diagnosed !!
    p.s. forgot to mention was put on numerous antibiotics for acne, and for other things in the past couple years--I DESPISE ANTIBIOTICS- THEY ARE THE WORST THING I HAVE EVER DONE TO MY BODY, and i have been on alot of meds in my life!! so i eventually asked for spiro, and the doctor was like, we don't prescribe that for acne!? sent me to the derm and i start accutane tomorrow...
    Get a NEW doctor. The fact that you have both acne, hirsutism, and 2 miscarriages (can be a sign) means that you could have an underlying hormonal problem. I can't believe that a woman doctor could be so insensitive!

     
    Old 07-18-2005, 07:18 PM   #51
    JanetinHouston
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    I agree with SweetJade. Do you HAVE to get a referral to an endocrinologist for your insurance to pay?

    And yes, having too many male hormones can keep you from getting pregnant or could cause you to miscarry. My endo was TOTALLY surprised that I had been able to get pregnant.

     
    Old 08-06-2005, 06:39 AM   #52
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Hi, i found this thread and decided to check my hormones. 5 years ago I had my first Major Acne Breakout- the cystic kind, and since then the same story all u had. But the thing is I also had major hair growth all of the sudden- everywhere!!! Even on my tummy, perinipple, etc, etc. I wish i had tested testosterone then. Now my acne is still bad, and i'm just fighting the hair, though some areas are so hard to remove.

    Anyway. My testosterone level turned out to be in the high normal range. Like Normal is 0.06-0.85, mine is 0.826. So I donno, do you all think this might be the reason for the acne and hair? Or i guess since its in the normal range then my acne must have other reasons? My other hormones were okay btw.
    I know this is an old thread but if any of u have some input it would be great.
    love yall.

     
    Old 08-06-2005, 08:12 AM   #53
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmahappy
    Hi, i found this thread and decided to check my hormones. 5 years ago I had my first Major Acne Breakout- the cystic kind, and since then the same story all u had. But the thing is I also had major hair growth all of the sudden- everywhere!!! Even on my tummy, perinipple, etc, etc. I wish i had tested testosterone then. Now my acne is still bad, and i'm just fighting the hair, though some areas are so hard to remove.

    Anyway. My testosterone level turned out to be in the high normal range. Like Normal is 0.06-0.85, mine is 0.826. So I donno, do you all think this might be the reason for the acne and hair? Or i guess since its in the normal range then my acne must have other reasons? My other hormones were okay btw.
    I know this is an old thread but if any of u have some input it would be great.
    love yall.

    When you say Testosterone are you referring to Free Testosterone? Those numbers could be Correct if that is the case, but that is so close to borderline that some days you may actually go over that number. Free T refers to the amount of Androgens that are unbound and free to be active in your system. So there may be some type of androgen that is too high, however there is:

    Total Testosterone
    Free Testisterone
    DHEA
    DHEA-s
    Androstendione
    DHT

    That you need to look at as well.

    Even with normal levels of Total Testesterone (takes into account Free T, DHEA, DHEA-S, Androstendione, DHT), you can have a HIGH amount of one of the others.

    Did you also you get your thyroid checked?

    Did you get your adrenal checked?

    Were you on any Birth Control or other medications (antibiotics, antidepressants, antihistamines) that can sometimes also lower your androgens or other hormones?

    Last edited by SweetJade1; 08-06-2005 at 08:39 AM.

     
    Old 08-06-2005, 02:39 PM   #54
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Hmmm. I see. No that was only the total testosterone- so you think i should do the free, the DHEA and all the other ones you mentioned? I checked thyroid and other female hormones, and no i'm not on anything. I just figure it might be why i'm so hairy. I guess I should do the other ones too? I hate blood tests, but if maybe this is why, i'd like to know it, you know what i mean? So you think i should do the other tests.

     
    Old 08-06-2005, 06:14 PM   #55
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmahappy
    Hmmm. I see. No that was only the total testosterone- so you think i should do the free, the DHEA and all the other ones you mentioned? I checked thyroid and other female hormones, and no i'm not on anything. I just figure it might be why i'm so hairy. I guess I should do the other ones too? I hate blood tests, but if maybe this is why, i'd like to know it, you know what i mean? So you think i should do the other tests.
    Yes. If that was your Total Testosterone, then it does'nt mean squat. Although, you are clearly near borderline with that number. Besides, I have normal Total Testoterone (not as high as yours) and I had VERY HIGH levels of Free T and DHEA! Other women have similar readings. Total Testosterone is not an accurate account of your androgen levels, so definately go back and get the rest checked.

    Best of luck! =)

     
    Old 08-07-2005, 04:05 AM   #56
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Thanks Sweet Jade, I'll keep you posted, I love you all for giving me support, even without knowing it. Thank you!

     
    Old 09-24-2005, 09:01 PM   #57
    JanetinHouston
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    THIS is a bump for the person that asked "Who does hormone testing"

     
    Old 09-25-2005, 09:33 AM   #58
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    thanks, ive been skimming this post within the past hour. its been very informative. Im sorry for anyone who is or had went through this. Some dermotologists dont make things any easier either, like mine who i will be seeing this friday. i woudl like to switch from ortho tri to yamin, but i almost feel like i should request a hormone test b/c these are two very diff. pills and yasmin could make me go crazy. i have been on every topical and antibiotic, and that gives me a clue that this is hormonal acne b/c that other stuff eventually stops working for me. Last year i was having the same oilness and breakouts before period and he wanted to give me accutane! heck no. i also have an appt. with my gyno the monday after, so he may be able to do more than the dermo. but i wonder if i should tell the dermo "hey, i feel like im hairy for a girl (toes, belly, areolas, lower back) could my androgens be high?" he might think im trying to play doctor and get ******. i feel like i have to though b/c he isnt thorough! im seriously in there for 10 min. my face is also super sensitive, so if i ever went on accutane i know my skin would fall off.

     
    Old 09-25-2005, 04:29 PM   #59
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    Hello, after reading this board I am convinced this is what I have as most of the symptoms i do have. The problem is I hav no insurance and i am flat broke. Is there soem kind of lifesytle changes and natural remedies anyone could tell me about to help before i can affor to go see a doc? Im sick of being like this I am willing to do anything! Any help would be GREAT!!

     
    Old 09-25-2005, 05:34 PM   #60
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    Re: Hirsutism/acne/oily skin/excess hair

    BTW I think derms are uneducated about this hormone stuff. I took accutane twice, that should have tipped off that something was wrong. She did ask for a hormone profile- but the wrong hormones!!! Oh well, everything in due time...

     
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