It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Alzheimer's Disease & Dementia Message Board

  • Deterioration

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 05-26-2005, 11:00 AM   #16
    Glenna
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Glenna's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 41
    Glenna HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    Thanks for the warm welcome!

    Oh, don't invite me to start ranting, lol, for there will be no end. I have come to loathe the health care and pharmaceutical industries.

    Martha, I have to believe my own eyes that surgery and certain meds in certain patients does cause dementia. But the medical industry no longer admits to it. They used to connect dementia with post-coronary artery bypass surgery, but the new party line (and they all seem to be sticking to it) is that any patient with post-surgery dementia must have already had it.

    Just not true in my mother's case. She went into surgery a physical/mental dynamo, and I remember thinking, good heavens, she'll be superwoman with the improved blood/oxygen flow. Instead out came this frail, confused person I didn't recognize, but no worries as the aftercare instructions said this was a temporary and normal condition. Right, only not.

    Did I mention they forgot to give her pain medication the next day? Or water. Wonder how agony affects recovery. For all I know she was wide awake throughout the surgery and they just had her paralyzed then drugged to forget. I spent the whole day pleading for pain medication the day following heart surgery, and it was not until 4:00 p.m. that they finally gave her a regular Tylenol (no codeine). I saw so much neglect it still makes me shudder as to what goes on behind closed doors that we'll never see. (This is a first-rate hospital in my area, seriously.)

    She was on Lopressor for decades, a known medication to cause cognitive decline, but seemed fine on it over so many years. But when the doctor added diltiazem, a calcium channel blocker, she had a dramatic decline from some aphasia and memory loss to a BIG drop in cognitive function--that's when she could no longer do routine things or operate even the simplest gadget or tool. And of course can't read or watch television/movies because they make no sense since she has no clue who anyone is or understand the references. This from a woman who devoured all things political and now can't tell you who the president is or what country she lives in.

    Medical studies once adcknowledged that CCBs could cause adverse cognitive effects (in some patients), but no longer--the new studies say they IMPROVE cognitive function. It took me three years to find a doctor that would take her off, despite all the physical side effects she had endured for years: swollen bald tongue that had her terrified of choking to death; constant drooling and oral thrush which no amount of Nystatin could cure; deep red marionette lines from her mouth making her look like the rear-end of a red-butt baboon; and of course the chemical lobotomy. Somehow I think if it had been the doctors' mother or wife with those adverse reactions, they would have a different take. But for my mom, doctor after doctor insisted she continue the drug, smiled at her as though she were such a cute little monkey, and guaranteed there was no connection to the surgery, meds and sudden dementia. She must have already had it and I just didn't notice!

    To be fair, many people seem to do fine with the same surgery and meds. It just maddens me when doctors poo-poo the notion of adverse effects in patients that don't have a good result. Those pharmaceutical reps must be awfully convincing (or pay off the docs darn well).

    About Aricept, the drug that some patients apparently do very well on. When my mother was put on it I had very high hopes and was not looking for adverse effects as it was touted as a well-tolerated med. So I encouraged my mom daily to swallow yet another pill. She was on this drug for three months and reached a point of spinning in circles, hysterically crying and unable to understand a word spoken to her. Doctor insisted she stay on the drug (which happens to cost a fortune) and said she was just having anxiety.

    Huh? The woman is completely psychotic and he's calling it anxiety and wants her to keep taking it? This time I stopped it myself (something I couldn't do with a heart med). Guess what, she got better and returned to her previous level of dementia. Not great, but a big improvement from being psychotic/hysterical/sobbing/terrified. Again I'm wondering if the patient were his wife or mother, would he be so cavalier about severe adverse effects.

    Gee, ranting feels good. Bet you would have duct-taped my mouth shut by now if this was in person! Will try to behave from now on (just kidding).

    Hugs and prayers for your loved ones, and strength for the caregivers.

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 05-26-2005, 11:33 AM   #17
    LuvMyLilDoggie
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    LuvMyLilDoggie's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2003
    Location: USA
    Posts: 3,436
    LuvMyLilDoggie HB UserLuvMyLilDoggie HB UserLuvMyLilDoggie HB UserLuvMyLilDoggie HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    I feel the same way about doctors from my own personal experience with them.

    As I said on another thread, we as both patients and caregivers, need to educate ourselves on our own health issues as well as those of the people we care for. Know the medications and side effects. Learn about the interactions with other drugs. There are also medications that shouldn't be taken with or around the time you eat or drink certain things. For instance, when I'm on my thyroid meds, I can't drink a glass of milk or have anything with calcium for six hours before or after I take my pill. The reason being calcium diminishes the absorbsion of levothyroxine into the body. Yet you'll never see that on the label. Wonder why....

    Doctors aren't saints and they don't know it all (although they think they are and that's what they like us to believe).

    It's great that your mom has you to care for her. You sound like a fantastic advocate for her!

    Have to go now. My dog is waiting to go out. I'm going to take her for a nice long walk today.

    Love, Barb
    __________________
    Live, Love, Laugh.

     
    Old 05-26-2005, 04:33 PM   #18
    angel_bear
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: Australia
    Posts: 1,508
    angel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    OH Glenna, I'm sorry, I didn't say Hello!!!

    Hello!!

    I have worked in the medical field since I was 17. Back in those days, I admired the doctors and thought them very clever individuals and trusted their judgement and their knowledge.

    Then I grew up.

    They are not the demi-God's many of them make themselves out to be. They are overworked and tired. They make mistakes. Yes, there are some great doctors out there, but there are also many many many 'quacks' who are just simply OVER being a health care professional. They are dangerous in their lethargy for their patients AND themselves. I know of many nurses who have reached 'burnout' and have, quite simply, turned peoples life support machines off because 'it's easier' ... excuse me? Empathy? Murder? Euthenasia (sp?) .. call it what you will ....

    I never 'lost faith' with doctors suddenly because of one or two issues, I've lost faith gradually throughout the years. Being forgotten in a time of need. Being ignored here and there. Them 'assuming' that because I'm 'a big girl' that I'm lazy and eat too much. The stories .. well, could more than fill one message board I'm sure. LOL

    It IS agreed here in Australia that the anaesthetics used in surgery CAN and WILL cause memory problems, even in the most healthiest of people. They are designed to MAKE you forget any pain you have subconsiously suffered in your sleep-state. Sometimes, the neurons that are affected LIKE IT, and STAY LIKE it .. and ... in people who already have dementia, you are informed your loved one WILL be worse. Not might be worse. WILL be worse. In normal healthy people, we usually bounce back in a week or two (give or take) with the excuse 'my body's been through alot' and so it's OK .. the neurons still take a bit of time waking up, days, weeks, months after a traumatic event.

    Your Mum MIGHT be predisposed to dementia.
    Your Mum MIGHT not be predisposed to dementia.

    It's also been proven that the wrong combination of blood pressure medication can cause dementia type symptoms. Doctors tend to keep prescribing, but neglect to put it all together. That's what happened with my MIL. She was on 4 blood pressure tablets!! She's now on ONE. Her blood pressure? Still elevated like it was with 4 tablets but nothing TOO severe. "Oh" says the doctor "maybe all those pills were working against her"

    Well D'UH !!! How did we get him to listen? I was hysterical in MIL's behaviours (read numerous previous posts) and begged him to put her on an antidepressant. Then he was advised by her geriatrician to stop ALL med's and just 'let her go'. He can't do that, so he brought all her med's down to sheer basics. She's no worse off than before, and her skin has a nice tinge to it now, instead of a yellow sallow colour.

    Anyway .. I'm rambling .. but I'm good at that. Please ..feel free to vent, jump up and down and scream ..

    Your more than welcome :-)

    Hugs
    Sally

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 07:43 AM   #19
    Glenna
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Glenna's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 41
    Glenna HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    Bosmom, right there with you that we have to look out for ourselves and do the research. The problem comes in though with the doctors/staff who roll their eyes when you dare question anything.

    When I researched the last med my mom was prescribed there were drug and food interactions. I called the pharmacist who confirmed this (with great caution and deference to The Doctor), saying I needed to talk to her doctor. Couldn't help snorting at this and saying, but they don't know anything about interactons. Sure enough, doctor's office in a nanosecond (gosh they're smart, don't even have to look anything up) say just take the med, there are no interactions or precautions.

    Sally, my jaw is dropping reading your post--they actually tell you the truth in Australia? Wonder if it's different here because everything always seems to boil down to dollars and profit.

    The medical personnel do seem to burn out on compassion early. I've spent lots of time in hospitals and have listened to patients crying and calling for help while the emergency staff would be joking around with each other and completely tuned out to the misery surrounding them.

    When my mom was in intensive care the morning after her bypass, I found her in a chair, she started to cry as soon as she saw me (this is a very stoic woman that does not complain--I have to coax her when I know something is off to tell me what's wrong). They had propped her up in a chair at 6:00 a.m. and it was now 9:00 a.m. and no one had checked on her. She was in agony. Besides the pain from surgery she has scoliosis, so 3 hours being left in a chair was excruciating. Her lips were so dry they looked dusty and she begged me for water. I asked the nurse thinking there might be a medical reason she was not allowed water, but nurse said, nah, go ahead.
    So apparently they just didn't bother. I tried to get my mom to just take a slow sip, but she was so thirsty and got a death grip on the glass and gulped it all, followed by killer nausea and vomiting the rest of the day. Had they only done their jobs (as alleged by the bills which eventually totalled about $100,000), the agony was so easily preventable.

    But what caught my attention was that I had on loud heels, so slipped them off when I went into ICU so as not to disturb the patients. The nurse's response was laughter saying it was unnecessary as "they're all out of it."
    Well, they may be drugged to forget things afterwards, but in the moment I know that my mother had been forced to suffer for many hours, could read the clock, and was most definitely not "out of it." Then they rushed to get her out of ICU before noon because there's an award the hospital wins for being top-rated in getting patients out of ICU the fastest. Nice priorities.

    I can relate to the "big girl" thing too. When I was skinny and wore suits was treated with a bit (not much, lol) of respect. Now I'm plump, no more suits, and am treated like the village idiot.

    Had tumors growing in me for 10 years and was in discomfort. I would fast all day for work yet my stomach would bulge out more and more as the day went on. Doc's gave me the typical pat on the head and assured me nothing was wrong. For 10 years everyone and their sister lectured me on how to eat. Went through 10 years feeling bad until finally I was doubled over and couldn't walk. Only then did they bother to do an ultrasound and discovered two large tumors. Lucky they were benign (endometriomas).

    Anyway, after the hysterectomy/oophorectomies I became plump (their fault!), and now I get no respect at all, lol.

    Prayers and hugs for a good weekend to all, and especially your dear loved ones.

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 08:37 AM   #20
    LuvMyLilDoggie
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    LuvMyLilDoggie's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2003
    Location: USA
    Posts: 3,436
    LuvMyLilDoggie HB UserLuvMyLilDoggie HB UserLuvMyLilDoggie HB UserLuvMyLilDoggie HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    As I was reading all of this, I was thinknig of my husband and his brother when they were in the hospital.

    My husband....2 years ago, he had a second hip replacement surgery. The first hip replacement was done under general anesthesia and morphine given intraveniously afterwards. This one was done with a spinal tap. After he got out of recovery, his stomach started hurting and he was bloating. I think you may have guessed it. He couldn't pee and they forgot to put a catheter in! He was in the hospital for five days and I stayed there every minute except to go home to take a shower and change and bring my son up to see him.

    My BIL....had a seizure and was banging his head on concrete so bad that though he hit only the front of his head, the back of his brain was bruised from the force. His forehead looked HORRIBLE! He was in a drug induced coma until the swelling began to go down. His head was so badly injured that he had to learn to walk and talk and everything else again.

    I went to visit him often after I got off work. After he came out of the coma, they had a therapist come in and do all sorts of exercizes with him to strengthen his muscles. They had someone come in ONCE A DAY to teach him to eat again. I would try to help him if I was there at mealtime but what about the rest of the time? Well, I came in about 2pm one day to find Don's BREAKFAST on the FLOOR! And lots of DRIED UP pee on his bed! I lost it with those nurses! How could they expect him to eat on his own when they KNEW he had to have help??? He could barely hold a spoon much less bring it to his mouth! And did they not know that he would be upset if he was hungry and saw a tray of food and couldn't eat it??? After I got through with those nurses (the whole floor heard me), they made certain that someone was there at each and every meal to help him eat. They even stopped in every once in a while with snacks for him and changed the linens right away when they were soiled. Good that they started taking care of him. But bad that I had to threaten to write the president of the hospital/university board and give him names and dates of what transpired.

    My husband and BIL have made full recoveries. My BIL has since been diagnosed as bipolar. I believe that's a result of injuring his brain. It definitely changed his personality forever.

    Love, Barb
    __________________
    Live, Love, Laugh.

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 09:09 AM   #21
    Martha H
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Martha H's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2004
    Location: Middlebury, IN
    Posts: 4,690
    Martha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB UserMartha H HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    Dear Friends I am just shaking my head in disbelief. Thank God I have not been hospitalized here since the birth of my 2nd child in 1970. I had the 3rd one in Germany, and also an appendectomy in Southern Africa, a tonsillectomy in Germany, and a tumor removed from my parotid gland - in fact the whole gland removed - in Germany, and also stayed in a lung clinic for 6 weeks because I was thought to have TB when it was in actuality a lung abscess ...all that time no one ever treated me with any trace of disrespect or harried rushing ... I was well treated and got well, and the state operated health insurance covered every cent of the cost, never got a bill.

    We love to see ouselves as the most advanced country in the world. Why then can't we get good, affordable medical care for all?

    My Dad must have been right when he said, "if you can still walk, walk away from the doctors!" After reading several more postings, I am convinced Mom's dementia began as a direct result of the heart failure medications. Would it have been better to stay off them? if she went off them now, would her normal mind come back? As you have all reported, her doctor says she MUST stay on all of them, there is no connection.

    Love,

    Martha

    Last edited by Martha H; 05-28-2005 at 09:11 AM. Reason: typo

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 06:44 PM   #22
    Glenna
    Junior Member
    (female)
     
    Glenna's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2005
    Posts: 41
    Glenna HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    It's been a month and a half since mom stopped the calcium channel blocker, Martha, and there are changes, but not the improvement for which I prayed. But then she was on that drug for over 3 years, so am afraid that it's too late.

    Her new cardiologist took her off the diltiazem without blinking, so now it's eating me up alive too wondering "what if" it were stopped 3 years ago before the big dementia nosedive when it was so obvious her body was rejecting this drug.

    It's odd, but her behavior changes with every new med. When she stopped the calcium channel blocker FINALLY and was switched to an ACE inhibitor, the morning crises (where she knows nothing, doesn't understand the concept of food and is just plain terrified in the morning remembering nothing) stopped for over a month. But she was only on the ACE inhibitor for a couple weeks because she couldn't tolerate the constant coughing and choking. Couple weeks after that she was put on an angiotensin II receptor blocker (and coincidentally forgot how to use the one-button telephone to call me). That also only lasted a couple weeks because she could no longer walk due to leg pain and fatigue. And the morning crises have started up again, but not as severe as when she was on the calcium channel blocker.

    Sorry to be so confusing, but it's just that I see changes in the dementia with every drug change. Maybe it's too soon to make any judgments. She's 84 though, so hope is no longer high on the list.

    Her next appointment is in a couple weeks and I'm very curious as to how she'll react to the next add-on drug. I'll update how it affects the dementia. Right now she's just taking the Lopressor for blood pressure and Glucophage for diabetes, but she's been on those forever with no problems.

    Amen to the words of Martha's father about walking away from doctors.
    My mom would be nodding her head in full agreement--she's terrified of them now (as opposed to the "I trust you completely, doctor, and am not worried at all" which she uttered 5 years ago the eve before her 3xCABG...has eaten her words many times since).

    Love and prayers to all my heroes here who endure and overcome so much... (and I need Sally to teach me how to cook! Mom is getting tired of spaghetti, broccoli, Lean Cuisine dinners and the other pathetic messes I dish up.)

     
    Old 05-28-2005, 07:02 PM   #23
    angel_bear
    Inactive
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: Australia
    Posts: 1,508
    angel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB Userangel_bear HB User
    Re: Deterioration

    I'll do some recipes Glenna ..!! I love cooking .. but if you could see what I live with to use up here in our little space, you would be amazed.

    Remember the books .. flowers in the Attic?? That's us. Except we CAN get outside at least.

    Talking of outside, we're going on a picnic. Will do "old person type' recipes on my return.

    Hugs
    Sally

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    cervical spine deterioration trychocolate Spinal Cord Disorders 13 06-03-2009 11:12 PM
    cervicle disc deterioration C6 leg pain no answers please help mistybliss27 Spinal Cord Disorders 3 05-08-2007 03:50 AM
    Calf deterioration help tibah Cerebral Palsy 3 08-14-2006 06:46 PM
    Is fast deterioration normal? janeslk Alzheimer's Disease & Dementia 5 03-19-2006 04:13 PM
    deterioration of the jaw?? littlebrace TMJ Disorder -TemporoMandibular Joint 3 03-11-2003 06:05 PM
    EXTREMELY rapid deterioration.. it's not normal. Rinoa Alzheimer's Disease & Dementia 9 09-30-2001 03:44 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:00 PM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!