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  • discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

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    Old 06-30-2005, 08:07 AM   #16
    Roman77
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    GGB morning to you too!

    I have been reading some of your previous posts and am wondering are you planning to go back to antibiotics eventually or will the (??) samento/saventro kill the lyme as well? Are you just trying to detox first so your bod can more readily heal and use the antibiotics eventually...I think that is what I'm gathering right?

    I am glad that you are having luck with the natural route. I guess I don't blame you for not wanting to try another antibiotic after that reaction....I am still wondering did it go away or do you still hve the effects o fthat herx? If it did not go away I am glad you didn't try the tetra! who knows what could of happened.

    But I am waiting to get my copy of that book...it is supposd to be here in a week. From what you and others are saying it is worth the wait and has so much info in it. I am anxious to read it and see what I can do to help with my toxin load, whch i guess must be somewhat highter. I am willing to try whatever means necessary witin reason to become well again...and if I have to go the natural route at some point I guess I will be in good company! I guess we shall see in a few days what the flagyl does. (fingers crossed...knock on wood...say some prayers)
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    Old 06-30-2005, 01:06 PM   #17
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Ok guys..sorry to post twice in a row on my own post but had to add that I thought this morning I was feeling a little bit better, kind of like yesterday morning. And then the herx hit me again and they are still kicking my behind. I am the "lobster" yet again. My fine motor stuff is all screwy today, I am an emotional wreck (patience is 0 and mood swings are constantly heading to crying) and I am throwing up now too. Too weak to get out of bed and my skin feels like it's going to fall off. The skin just can't handle being the "lobster" this many days in a row and is now feeling pretty raw. And the headache...well it's bad. Some how I managed the strength to covered all my windows in my bedroom with blankets so that the light just coming in through the closed blinds wasn't killing me, and even now I sit here with ear plugs in so that the sound of the typing doesn't make me throw up or pass out!

    Sorry to vent...but if I call my mom she will freak out and drive down to be with me yet again...I will not have her driving another 5 hours just for me! And at this point my friends seem to have given up on me, cept a few good ones that I've have for 10 years. So there's no one today buy ya'll...so sorry to lay it all on you.

    Back to sleep now...think everything is worse cuz I couldn't sleep at all last night, and my temp won't get above 97.3 today at all. Usually by this time in the day it is a little closer to 98...guess the keets are having a picnic!
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    Last edited by Roman77; 06-30-2005 at 01:16 PM.

     
    Old 06-30-2005, 04:21 PM   #18
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Romans12:12 ,

    I am sorry you are having such an aweful time!!

    I really feel like your toxin load is up there. Here are some things to help:

    Drinking lots of water... organic lemon water is awesome to help alkanize the body and detox the liver.

    Bathing as much as possible with the detox baths

    Gentle yoga/stretching (library may have videos)EVERYDAY even when you don't want to!!

    Deep belly breathing

    Eating organic..NO sugar...NO preservatives..NO yeast...following the candida diet will definitely help.

    Rest, rest and more rest!

    ~P

     
    Old 06-30-2005, 04:59 PM   #19
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Thanks GGB...I am sure my toxins are sky high as well despite my best efforts to do all you've listed. I haven't had any sugar, caffeine, preservatives, carbs, etc and everything is all organic for at least the past month AND I'm on Nystatin. I drink like a gallon or more of water a day - I will start adding lemon...didn't know that would help. When I'm herxing I'm rotating out those baths you suggested in an earlier post and I do deep breathing in the AM when I am strong enough. The baths I think help alot, if only to relax me and ease some of the pain. And even when I hurt I at least try to do 5-10 minutes of stretches and muscle toning, I haven't been able to get started on any yoga yet have just been too weak. ....sigh.... Nothing seems to do the trick....I guess I just need to sleep more maybe. I cannot sleep for more than 3 hours in a row though. I have insomia sooo bad. I finally started taking melatonin 2 weeks ago and that is the only way I am even sleeping just that 3 hours! It's just so crazy, nothing else I've read or tried has helped me with the sleep issue. ...sigh...

    Question about the detox baths.... what exactly does the lemon in the bath do? Is it like drinking the water w/lemon only through your skin? Because when I sit in that one bath...man I burn. I get all itchy and red patchs start showing up on my body-never in the same spot though. Weird. But I try to stay in there as long as I can. Now with the other 2 - the ginger/epsom and then the sea salt ones I can stand those pretty well now. It's only after about 15 minutes that I start feeling like I'm getting zonked. So that's a small improvement.

    I guess I will just keep plugging away and hope all that I'm doing helps eventually. Thanks again for the extra encouragement GGB...I definitely needed it today.
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    Old 06-30-2005, 07:43 PM   #20
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Dear GGB & Romans,

    Romans you ask such good questions and GGB you always seem to have the answers. Good combo.

    I hate that you are having such a hard time Romans. I didn't think it could get a whole lot worse than what I have been going through but you proved me wrong. Sleep as much as you can. I wish I could sleep during the day but it just won't happen no matter how much I try.

    The last 2 days my butt has been dragging because I go to the homeopathic tomorrow and he always tells me to stop the saventaro and CS for those two days. It's funny how you think something is not working that great and then you stop and say Oh!oh! it was working after all. A little anyway.

    I think I am like you Romans and after 4 1/2 years and all the steroids I was given I am on overload for toxins.

    I felt so miserable I decided to take an epsom salt/peroxide bath today and was able to get out by myself but it wasn't pretty. The funny thing is that when I first got in the tub the backs of my legs burned like crazy for about 3 minutes. I didn't have the water overly hot today but this has never happened before. Not sure what it means either.

    Hope you are feeling better soon. Have a great 4th of July weekend.

    BDFM

     
    Old 06-30-2005, 08:26 PM   #21
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Hi:

    I too was extremely overloaded w/toxins when I started w/ Doxy.

    I tried to stick w/ the Doxy for approx. 2 months...always felt horrible, ended up on hospital twice w/herx...went off it for 5 plus weeks...slowly, but surely got even WORSE. Couldn't believe there could be worse, but there was : (

    Finally 2+ weeks ago switched to zithro...

    First 2 days were tough, took benadryl to ease herx symptoms...

    but now am feeling good for first time in almost one year.

    I also added a ton of supplements to help support my immune system and remove toxins. I now am a true believer that you CANNOT just do abx and make it thorugh this thing. Things that help: glutathione, vit c, NADH, transfer factors, nattokinase, probioitics, magnesium...there's more. I'll add later if you are interested.

    Good Luck....my advice stay away from the Doxy

    Also watchout w/the Flagyl. I'm pulsing it 2 days per month, even in tiny little doses it hits me hard....made me really, really sad and weepy!!!

     
    Old 07-01-2005, 05:22 AM   #22
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Thanks BDFM and Shaynesmom.

    This morning finds me a little stronger, but then again the last few days I thought I was also and then bam outta left field! So fingers crossed that I am over the herx.

    BDFM ~ sorry to hear you have been dragging...but am GLAD to hear that the saventaro and CS is working for you. It's tough to get through these days I'm sure, but just think now you know that it's helping you more than you knew and that is welcome news I bet!!! Also just wanted to say about your burning legs - I have also wondered what that means...I get that all over my body no matter what bath I take, but especially with the lemon one! Maybe GGB can answer that for us? Can ya GGB?

    Shaynesmom ~ thanks for the advice...and I am definitely not just doing the abx alone! I take about 60 pills a day to cover them all! It's crazy...I feel like I only eat pills for meals! Anyway Dr. C in MO has me on a ton of supplements including many that you list. However I'm just wondering what the glutathione and nattokinase are? I am not familiar with them. Curious as how they fit in?

    Also thanks for the heads up with the flagyl...was there anything that helped you not be sooo sad and weepy? Looks like I will be taking it every day at a very low dose to see if I even tolerate it....so hopefully it won't be so bad to start out with. I can only hope.

    Hope you are all having a wonderful day...mine is at least livable and breathable today which is a welcome change!
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    Old 07-01-2005, 06:01 AM   #23
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Romans,

    What is it with some of us and doxy?

    After 1.5 years on many abx and basically no herx and no improvement, my LLMD put me on a 'maintenance' dose of 100 mg of doxy to give my body a "rest". I immediately got the sickest I've ever been AND finally tested positive for lyme after numerous negative tests. (This was almost exactly one year ago.)

    I think in some of our bodies, lyme and doxy go to war. Good or bad? I just don't know. I was almost immediately put on IV rocephin back then, and switched from doxy to ketek.

    Maybe I should have stayed on doxy??

    I hope you are feeling much better very very soon.

    gmcnj

     
    Old 07-01-2005, 06:58 AM   #24
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Dear shaynesmom,

    I am glad to hear that you are finally making progress. You must go to a doctor who believes in mixing the natural with the traditional. How fortunate for you.

    I am sure you have read that I am taking saventaro and colloidal silver combo. The most reaction I have had to anything oral. The IV was working great but had to pull it because of liver enzymes.

    Last time I was at the homeopathic he added Thymex (immune system) and the nattokinase you mentioned. This was the first time I ever saw it talked about. I have read it is a clot buster and was apprehensive about taking it. He actually kept keying in on my uterus when he told me to take it. He asked me if I had ever had any surgery there and all I had had was a D&C and my tubes tied. I think this is kind of strange but I do trust him. He felt some kind of blockage was a problem absorbing the meds. I would love to know why you are taking it.

    If you don't mind I would like to see your list of supplements and maybe you could briefly tell what each does. I have heard of the glutathione but not sure what it is used for. My daughter's friend who has lyme swore by Super Quercetin (sp). I'm not sure what it is for. He is doing the Marshall plan and is doing great except for 2 days a month was having excruciating herxes. I guess it is worth it if you kick the bug. I haven't heard how he is doing for a few months now but hope he is still improving. I feel horrible 30 days a month so 2 really bad ones would probably be welcomed.

    By the way when I talked to the nurse at the ID's office she didn't understand why anyone would take flagyl. They aren't overly lyme literate here in Texas. I really couldn't explain it to her, maybe you could tell me. She did say there is a new product (over the counter) call flora Q that is supposed to be even better. Maybe this is something I should be taking?

    I felt the IV (9 weeks worth) should have taken care of any co-infections, at least according to my reading. The only one that needed different treatment seemed to be the babs. I was tested for this through labcorp and nobody here seems to have faith in them but it did come back negative. I don't think it is a problem because most people here talk about night sweats and malaria like symptoms. That has never been a problem. What do you think about the IV killing the co-infections and am I right about the babs?

    Thanks for any input. It is so nice to be able to count on somebody who actually knows what you are talking about and has been there too.

    Betterdaysforme

     
    Old 07-01-2005, 07:27 AM   #25
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    GMCNJ ~ I don't know what it is about doxy for some of us either! That's preety insane what you went through...jsut being on a maintenance dose and getting so sick. I am glad that the ketek worked well for you. Hopefully I will see similar success soon with some other antibiotics! That would be nice!

    BDFM ~ the reason we take flagyl is that it the only med (that I am aware of) that can penetrate the cyst form of the lyme spyrochete. I guess when we take antibiotics of another kind some of the keets see it coming and become a cyst that way the have a shield and can hide out in our system until the coast is clear...then bam there is a wholey healthy intact syprochete that pops out and starts doing damage again. This is a very non tech answer to your question..I don't know the science only what my llmd has said and what i've read. I don't know anything about that flora Q though...maybe when I'm feeling better I can do some searching. If you find out more about it please share. But hope this helps a little for now.

    Shaynesmom ~ I agree with BDFM that it would be interesting to see your list of supplements and why you take it. Thanks for offering and sharing!
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    Old 07-01-2005, 01:19 PM   #26
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Just a note....was not over the herx as I thought....about 10 minutes after I posted last I turned into the "lobster" again. It is so scary to be a normal color one minute, and then turn so bright red, feel like my skin is boiling or on fire, turn splotchy, itchy, and sore the next...watching it spread like a wildfire. It's funny that lately it always starts in my scalp/face, then goes down my neck, shoulders, elbows, wrists, hips, knees, and lastly feet. It always starts at the joints and then just fills me in like I'm some weird kind of color by number page. But at least this one was definitely the least painful of them sooo far so I know I am on a upward trend finally...but may have to postpone starting the flagyl on Tuesday like planned. Think I need to give my bod time to catch up and rest and heal a little after this whole week of trauma!
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    Old 07-01-2005, 08:29 PM   #27
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Hi:

    Here's some quick notes on Glutathione and Natto. I copied the glut. info from another online chat group. There's a guy over there (***** group) that's an expert on the big role glut. plays in recovering your health.


    Glutathione:
    Glutamate (or glutamic acid) is one of the amino acids that goes
    into making glutathione. The other two are cysteine and glycine.

    Many ppl w/chronic infections feel quite a bit better for a day or so
    after getting IV glutathione. The half-life of IV glutathione in
    human blood plasma is about 1.6 minutes. It is absorbed primarily
    by the kidneys, which make use of it, and secondarily by the lungs,
    which also have a major need for glutathione. Other organs absorb
    lesser amounts. IV glutathione is not directly very beneficial to
    the liver, because it is set up to put glutathione into the blood,
    rather than to remove it from the blood. To help the liver's
    glutathione status, it is necessary to supply the amino acids
    orally, such as in nondenatured whey protein (RenewPro or ImmunoPro
    Rx are the most potent sources), or N-acetylcysteine combined with
    dietary protein.

    Nattokinase is an enzyme that is supposed to improve bloodflow by reducing the thickness of blood. Another theory is that many ppl w/chronic infection have coagulation issues and do better when their blood is thinned out.

    No time now to post the rest of my supplements.

    Romans: I'm sure of the sixty you take each day you are probably covering all the bases.

    Oh yeah, let me mention that the Transfer Factor and NADH seem to be helping out a lot too. They both help to build up the immune system.

    Take Care

     
    Old 07-01-2005, 08:38 PM   #28
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Thanks for the run down on the glut and nattokinase! I know my llmd has such an open mind about antibiotics and other supplements so I think I'm good for now unless I start having this tpe of reaction to all my antibiotics! Hope not! ANyway have a great weekend and a nice 4th!
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    Old 07-02-2005, 12:28 PM   #29
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Dear shaynesmom,

    Before I got on the site today I started looking up some of the supplements you mentioned. Very interesting stuff. Did you research this yourself or was a doctor pointing you in the right direction?

    The glutathione was interesting and probably can be found pretty easily. But there were so many kinds. Same can probably be said for the NADH. At one time I was taking colostrum and think that falls into one of the categories, can't remember which. The transfer factors almost sounds as though you really need to know what's going on to take this? Everything else I pretty much understand.

    A very long time ago before it was determined that I have lyme my homeopathic gave me NAC, I think that is something you were talking about in your most recent post. Interesting that that was one of the things he gave me. I actuallly think I still have some left.

    I'm sure you have seen me write about how he tests with magnets and I am hoping he will have samples of the supplements you mentioned so he can test me. Of course when you pull up sites everybody and his brother tells you their's is the best. When you have the time I would absolutely love to know the brands and how much of each you take. It would also be nice to hear how you think each one had helped you. I know this is a lot to ask but I am sure I am not the only one on here who would love to know. I am sure you can give this info just not where to purchase it.

    I am glad the zithro is helping you. What a relief. I am on saventaro now but may be changing to liquid samento soon. If I have to go back on the antibiotics I will see if the doctor will do zithro and cholestryamine. He pretty much follows CDC rules so don't know what he will say. The doxy did nothing for me.

    I love to hear positive stories and am so glad you have one to tell. Can't wait to hear from you and keep on getting better.

    Betterdaysforme

     
    Old 07-04-2005, 06:43 PM   #30
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    Re: discouraged...Herx again after 1 day of Doxy

    Hi all...this has been a lousy 4th. Not only am I weak as a kitten and still herxing, still turning into the "lobster" but I feel like I am losing my mind. It seems like it is 25 x worse than ever! All day today I have not been able to think, to remember things for longer than 20 seconds, to judge distances...it seems like everything in my brain has decided to go on strike. It's been like this on occasion before, but never this extreme. On top of that my emotions have been a rollercoaster to say the least. I don't know how many more days of these herxes I can take. I am praying that this doxy from LAST Saturday gets out of my system soon....I need a few days where I'm not in agonzing pain and so out of it and weak that I can't get out of bed. My body is so exhausted that finally the insomnia has lost it's grip and I literally pass out and don't remember falling asleep at all. It's almost scary.

    Anyway my mom is coming tomorrow to take me home to MN so at least by tomorrow night I will not have to worry about trying to cook for myself or clean...that will be a relief. I am supposed to start the Flagyl whenver these herxes let up so pray that will be soon, just so that my body can actually start fighting some of these keets. I feel like they are winning so far, and I don't like that at all.

    And sadly, no fireworks for me with my bf tonight. Just too weak to make the short trek. Guess I'll see some next year. Hope you all had some fun though....I'll keep you posted once I reach MN.

    Be well.
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