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  • Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

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    Old 12-13-2003, 05:51 PM   #31
    rainonwindow
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    If my ADHD daughter were to take a valium, she would get high as a kite and agitated. Me too. In fact if we take any sedative, it speeds us up - way up.

    When we take ritalin however, it relaxes us. It's a wonderful medication! Nobody in my family has ever experienced depression as a result of taking this medication. It clears the 'mud' out of our brains - gives us nice, clear, relaxed, forcused thoughts.

    My families experience with this medication has been terrific! For those who need it - it's a great medication.

    Anytime you take a medication and it is not needed - chances are that the results are not going to be desired. I had a friend who kept wanting to take my ritalin because she knew how beneficial it is for my family. I refused of course.

    She got a doctor to prescribe some for her and when she took 5 mg, she became very irritable. It most definitely was not the medication for her. I also saw nothing about her behavior to indicate that she had ADD or ADHD.

    What can be a terrible medication for some, can be a wonderful medication for others. Everybody has different genetics and different reasons for their ADD or ADHD. Everybody's response is going to be different.

    Last edited by rainonwindow; 12-13-2003 at 05:59 PM.

     
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    Old 12-13-2003, 08:07 PM   #32
    Jennita
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    Yes, I'm aware that people are not rats...except maybe some men .

    If research with rats is questionable, then why do they still do it....big waste of money, wouldn't it be....plus nothing would be valid at all; even the things they gave rats that cause cancer would be considered safe for humans after all?

    But they did find the same things were causing cancers in humans too. The reason they use rats is because alot of the systems are simular and most research results with rats has proven to be true for humans, at least to some extent.

    Rats have been time-tested as a valuable research tool for humans. I wouldn't toss it aside because they have fur and we don't. I believe most of this research is quite valid. But even before this, almost everyone knows depression is a by-product of stimulants(and even some other drugs) because people have already experienced it. Some PDF's of drugs even list depression as either side effect or discontinuation effect. This research only scientifically confirms what people already have been living through....it's really not new to some people. But now it's "official".

     
    Old 12-13-2003, 08:22 PM   #33
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    Speaking of rats, they have discovered that when a certain neurotransmitter system is stimulated by drugs, over many years it starts to literally burn out. This is why psychoactive drugs will, at some point, start to become ineffective and no longer work well. Then they can start trying new stuff, but the end results are the same...pretty soon the drugs are actually needed just to keep the brain from freaking out and the original issue is no longer really the problem.

    They have, through more rat research, recently discovered this about the serotonin system and SSRi's; they figure long-term users will end up having less serotonin receptors than they originally started with. At least that's what happened to the rats' brains.....now, this would be feasible considering how most things historically that did happen to rats in research ended up happening to humans too. I don't know if I would want to chance it if it were a true possibility.

    I don't think anybody stops to consider also, that long-term ingestion of strong pharmaceuticals will ultimately compromise the organs, like kidneys, liver, pancreas...causing all sorts of physical ailments along the line, making life harder and more miserable.

     
    Old 12-13-2003, 11:27 PM   #34
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    It is pretty freakin sad to me that people have to see and read tons of studies before realizing the truths about some things. First off there is documented work backing up many of the side effects caused by stimulants (like depression) Second of all, how about a little common sense?

    Everyone used to believe the world was flat.... now we know its round. People who dont think for themselves are the ones who kept on believing the world was flat. People need to try thinking for themselves more often instead of just believing everything doctors and others tell them!!!

    Last edited by * Free ~ Spirit *; 12-13-2003 at 11:28 PM.

     
    Old 12-14-2003, 05:17 AM   #35
    nomorepills
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    Let me just tell you all from experience.....it DOES cause depression. Studies can definetely give you info that you may not have had, but just ask someone whose been there...done that. It does cause depression, it does cause long term dependency, it does have the same effect as cocaine. I remeber one night after taking it, I was about 10- I knew that I wasnt going to be able to sleep (which often I didnt) so I picked up a ball went outside and threw it against the garage door for hours. I got in huge trouble for "acting out" but I couldnt freaking help it...I was wired!!!! I know that I am just one person, but hey...consider me a case study that you have read about (you have)
    It can help CERTAIN children, but for others, it sets up a life of misery.

     
    Old 12-14-2003, 10:24 AM   #36
    Jennita
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    Nomore,

    That is terrible what you had to go through. I slept so well as a child; that sleep recharged me no doubt better than any stimulant could. To be robbed of precious sleep at that age(or any age), for any reason, is just plain wrong and dangerous. Proper mental function depends on natural sleep as well as physical health. In studies done with rats (here we go again), they found that rats died after weeks of no REM sleep stage in particular. Most people, when thinking of REM, think of a less useful stage of sleep, since stage 3 and 4 are for the body repair mainly. But REM was found to effect the brain in such a profound way that without it, the brain could not survive. Now, alot of psychoactive drugs screw around with REM (cutting back on it in some cases), so although that doesn't mean a person will die, it could mean a "dying "of certain mental functions over time....ending up in depressions, or manic behaviors, etc.

    What causes chemical imbalances? I don't have the absolute answer, but a logical answer would be....chemicals. This would literally be what we ingest...anything from toxic drugs to perhaps also the other end of the spectrum with lack of proper intake of vital foods.

    Like I said before, you find drug or other chemical history with some people..like Patty Duke....now, I thought, if manic-depression is hereditory, why doesn't her sons have it? I did read that Sean Astin in particular decided to shun the Hollywood pill/alcohol scene. Now before anyone says I have a manic-depressive relative who didn't abuse drugs or alcohol, remember I also said it doesn't have to be abuse. My husband personally knows a woman who became manic-depressive from something as simple as a diet drug. We have to learn to respect drugs more...today some of the most powerful drugs(like amphetamines and such) have no respect of their adverse powers and effects. It's as though they are viewed as harmless as tylenol....and yet more people are afraid to take that simply because some peoples livers couldn't take the tylenol with mixed drinks!

    So much fear of things like tylenol, and peanut butter (I was once told by a pro-drug parent is suspected of causing cancer). So basically we should fear peanut butter as much as pharmaceutical speed I guess?? And the fear of too much caffeine because of the health implications....well, mulitply caffeine by 1,000 and you have a common dose of Ritalin.

    FreeSpirit is right; where has common sense gone?

     
    Old 12-14-2003, 06:01 PM   #37
    rainonwindow
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    Moldy peanuts are extremely carcinogenic. Hopefully not that many are ground up into peanut butter.

    Genes can be dominant, recessive, sex-linked etc. Inherited conditions can be due to a single gene, many genes or a small cluster of genes. Inherited conditions often do not show up in every generation.

     
    Old 12-15-2003, 11:16 AM   #38
    nomorepills
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    Jennita- YOu have helped me figure out ALOT !!! Thank you for your post. I am starting to find out more and more about certain things...like the effects of certain things that I have done to my body or put in my body. What I am talking about particularly...is the sleep thing. I did not sleep at all well as a child. You are right when you said lack of sleep kills certain things. Not being able to sleep has rolled into my adult life. I have slight insomia and if i take something for it, I wake up feeling worse than I did before. It is an insane vicious cycle. It makes me so crazy and emotional.
    I have just gone through an ordeal of getting off of every phamaceutical that I was on after 17 years. It was very draining and excrutiating, but I did it. With a clear mind..(finally) I am able to realize things that I have never even had a clue about. I really appreciate every ones posts on here because they have helped me piece things together. YOu ALL have been very helpful....Thank you

     
    Old 12-15-2003, 02:17 PM   #39
    Jennita
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    Nomore, I am so happy for you! Good luck with everything. You may sleep more normally someday; the brain sometimes needs alot of time to shift things around after such long exposure to drugs. Just remember good food, exercise alot and no drugs; old fashioned stuff like milk, chammomile teas, and calcium supplements are good bedtime things that do help alot.

    There is something very special about natural sleep; they have yet to duplicate it in a pills; not one sleeping pill gives the same cycles as natural sleep. They always case irregularties in cycles. I mean, they can duplicate things like nature like insulin and antibodies in medications to heal the sick, but they can't get the sleep down right; this seems to be the one thing the brain has to do on its' own in order for it to be done right. I would rather have less sleep naturally than more artifically because the natural will always be better quality.

    Rainonwindow is right, sometimes certain diseases skip a generation. However, the majority of stories I've read from countless people with mental disorders will almost always say a parent , never just a grandparent, had the condition, whether it be anxiety, depression, bi-polar, alcoholism, etc....or at least behaved as they did. There's a theory out there of learned behaviors....children use parents as models for actions and behaviors when young, and although they grow up as different individuals, they retain alot of that without even recognizing the signs. But I also do believe that chemicals are quite capable of imbalancing the brain, and when people take such things in, the risk of mental problems is increased. It would be interesting to know if someone like Patty Duke, if she had not been given pharmaceuticals, would have become bi-polar at all.

     
    Old 07-03-2005, 01:42 AM   #40
    Crystal M.
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    I agree that medications for things like adhd, depression and bipolar are given out way too rapidly and often thoughtlessly. I was on depression meds since I was 11 and frankly they were useless. Still they kept me on them and they kept switching and switching. Then they diagnosed me with bipolar and adhd and then they even told me I had schizophrenia which was ridiculous. From experience I've seen that our psychotherapeutic community is very med-happy. But hey, for some people they really do help. I think it's not really about the meds, it's about how you handle your life. At least that's true for me. I'm not on depression meds anymore because I don't feel like I "need" them and because for people like me, no meds work unless you put in a lot of your own effort, and then they can help. But eventually, I learned how to deal with my life. But that's just my story.

    I'm very against the quick fix theory. It seems like so many people think that a medication should "solve" their problem or take away their symptoms when they themselves don't do crap to get to that point. Therefore I applaud all you parents who are doing all they can to focus on actually caring for and teaching their children as opposed to simply medicating them. For a lot of times, one must learn the hard way that meds and shrinks are not the solution. Not to say that they can't help, but for anything to help, you have to let it and you have to work for it.

    I still don't have a set opinion on adhd meds. I do think that the diagnosis of adhd is ludicrously given to almost every child from 6 to 10 (or so it seems) just like the diagnosis of bipolar is given to almost every teenager. For a lot of these people, the symptoms are part of growing up and do not need to necessarily be medicated. Still even for those children, a lot are helped by their adhd medication. Like rainonwindow said, your reaction would depend largely on your genes or neurochemistry (I don't know which for sure), your personality, and other treatment methods to help with the problem. I think that parents should follow their instincts and use methods which they feel comfortable with and which they see work. I mean, if you see your kid acting like he's on drugs, by all means take him off. It's never worth it to suppress a kid's personality to the point where he is a different person.

    But I do want to say that ritalin (methylphenidate) and cocaine are quite different. They're both stimulants, but they're two completely different chemicals with some structural resemblances. But keep in mind that all stimulants have structural resemblanes with adrenaline (the natural stimulant). So you can't really prejudge the effects of the drugs based on structural similarities. Also, cocaine brings about euphoria almost instantly, which does not happen with most adhd meds because they are designed to be administered in a controlled fashion. Cocaine would not work for adhd although it does give people energy. Yes, cocaine has a much shorter duration than ritalin but then again, it is so much more intense.

    And rats, though similar to humans enough for research, should in no way be used as indicators of human reactions, especially specific ones like to ritalin. I think that experiments with rats provide guidelines, but one or two studies that showed that rats had similar addictions to ritalin and cocaine are not reliable by themselves. There is so much research that shows contradicting results that to rely on any one study is unwise. I think that to accurately quote research you have to acquaint yourself with other related studies, even those showing different points of view. Even then, I believe, one's bias does not disappear but at least it is a more educated opinion as opposed to straight out prejudice

    It also isn't fair to call ritalin speed because it is not an amphetamine--it is structurally different. Adderall and dexedrine are forms of amphetamine. Believe it or not, there actually is an adhd drug that is pure methamphetamine: desoxyl. I wonder why no one takes that one that much! I agree you can become dependent on any stimulant, but then again, I think it more depends on your personality. Some people are predisposed to become dependent and not giving them prescription meds will not necessarily prevent drug use. I personally know many addicts most of whom did not abuse medications prescribed to them, for illegal substances like speed, cocaine, etc are a lot more potent. Most of the addicts I know who did abuse their medications only did so after abusing other drugs.


    When it comes to kids losing their personalities through adhd drugs, I can't see how anyone can make a generalization about that, one way or the other. It changes almost everyone's behavior, but for a lot of people they really do work. I think maybe they shouldn't be prescribed to young kids unless of incorrigible defects, but I know that with teenagers through young adults, these drugs don't really change their personalities unless they abuse them.

    At the same time, it is unethical for school systems to force children to take medication because it seems like a lot of the "problematic behaviors" cited as cause are b.s. and show that the school is too lazy to actually put their own effort into educating and/or disciplining the kids. I also believe that all psychologists/psychiatrists should be open minded to families who are uncomfortable with medications and should assist them in finding alternative treatment methods as opposed to frowning upon their choice.

    I think a big problem in this whole debate is tolerance. Schools and parents aren't tolerant of kids' differences, psychiatrists aren't tolerant of different treatment methods, those who don't want their kids to take meds are intolerant of child medications, even people on this board are intolerant of each other's viewpoint. There will never be a right answer because people will hold on to their opinions unless experience proves them wrong (or unless they're easily swayed) and because experiences will continue to be different. People are individuals and will have different reactions to any kind of treatment. I think there is no right or wrong, and really, all this drama and hurt feelings are unneccessary. I'd just say, do what you think is right but don't try to prove it to others because you won't convince them anyway.

    Good luck with your kids you all.

     
    Old 07-03-2005, 03:15 PM   #41
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    Re: Effects of Ritilan when not Needed

    it helps me study i do better on tests i feel more confident it works for me im 21 and im content with it, as far as side effects go im willing to deal with them, because after i get my degree im off them (4 more years)

     
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