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    Old 09-14-2005, 07:45 PM   #16
    rosequartz
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Scared Wife-Thank you so much for your honesty. You must have the workbook that goes along with the book I have (with the same title). The book is excellent. It also gives a reference for a support group on line, that I have to check into just to read up a little more. However, I think my decision should already be made, but I keep checking to see it he IM'd me. He hasn't for a couple days, since the last one I posted for you. Part of me feels sad, like I'm giving up, but like one of the Non-BP's in the book said about his BP wife: he's worked so hard on not abandoning her, that he had abandoned himself. That's what scares me, that's what I think happens, like a slippery slope.
    It's good that his friend can see how he's acting. Mine doesn't have any friends. He told me it was because they all had bad habits and he was trying to better himself and get away from bad influences. It sounded so noble, and I believed him. Now I believe that he drives them away. His family puts up with him because they're related to him, used to him, and some of them have the same problems.
    I fell for him pretty fast too. He was great for the first 3 months, and a raging maniac for the next 6. Anyone else would say, if the relationship was bad for twice as long as it was good, what am I doing here?
    I had thyroid surgery in May and my friends were urging me to "get rid of him before you have your surgery". You don't need the stress, etc. They were right, and I knew it at the time. Why have I allowed it to drag on for 4 more months?
    He was a real jerk and not supportive, not empathetic with me etc. I hope you don't mind but I'm gonna cut and paste from the letter that I should have pasted the first time rather than type it all out again.
    Thanks for your concern about my health. Thank God it was benign. Iím still tired. Stress and surgery takes a lot out of you. If you were that worried why didnít you have a little more patience and compassion with me? The first day I came home (to my house), Monday, you ended up storming out, because I was upset that you hurt my neck from squeezing my shoulders when you rubbed my backÖÖ3 days after being cut open. Then 2 days later on your birthday, after I thought I did everything I could to make you happy, you pulled the spoiled child act again. You say I wonít understand where youíre coming from. Itís more like I can tell you over and over until Iím blue in the face, how I feel about something and you just donít get it. I will try one more time to explain this to you, although I feel itís futile.

    I felt as you did, when we first met and became boyfriend and girlfriend, I was SO happy! I was serious when I wrote in your Christmas card that you gave me a reason to believe in love again. You were wonderful, treated me great, were interested in my opinions, wanted to get to know me, wanted to spend all your free time with me, listened to me, talked to me, treated me with respectÖ.I couldnít have asked for a better guy!

    I did appreciate you, and your help with things, and I always thanked you. I did not however appreciate your attitude that you should make decisions for me on things that I was perfectly able to decide on my own. I also did not appreciate your anger when my decisions were different than yoursÖÖsome examples: hosing off the lawn mower, buying a timer for the hose (you screamed at me in Home Depot), waxing my car when it hadnít been washed in months, fixing the front door by hammering the door frame instead of adjusting the closing arm, etc.

    OK, now to the real issue, Junior. You say you have owned dogs, cats, lizards, etc. I would describe myself as a dog lover, a dog person. You may have owned dogs, or lived in a house with one, but you are not a dog person. I guess thatís the difference between me and you. To me a dog is a member of the family, not just an accessory or a piece of furniture. Pets have souls, personalities, feelings. Itís too bad that you donít understand the great capacity for love that a pet can offer. Youíre really missing out on something good. Oh well, we just view things differently. I told you from the start and Chuck told you that Junior is my baby. I love him. Why do you expect me to apologize for that? Iím not going to. Junior was (and is) there for me through the ups and downs of my life. He is loyal. I owe him the same loyalty. Everyone else (except my mom) has walked out of my life at some point. How many times have you told me weíre done? Loving him doesnít take away my ability to love a person, and it doesnít subtract from the love I can offer. Itís a different kind of love. Why canít you understand that? Havenít you ever heard the saying, love me, love my dog? I donít expect you to love Junior, but you donít like him because youíre jealous of him? Thatís a real problem. No one has ever not liked Junior, heís very likeable.

    You say I put Junior first. Yes I do. Thatís what you do for someone who depends on you for their care and wellbeing. Again, why do you expect me to apologize for that? I put Junior first before ME even. Junior always is stocked up on food, pupporoni, milk bones, etc, and sometimes I have no food or pop in the fridge for me. If I didnít want him in my life, I wouldnít have him. Heís important to me, heís not an inconvenience. Your argument that youíre more important because youíre human doesnít make sense. The fact that youíre human implies that you have logic and capacity to reason. You should be able to understand. He on the other hand (being just a dog), would not understand why he was no longer able to sleep in bed, as he had for 13 years. I told you right from the start how important he is to me. There were no surprises.

    Hereís one of your statementsÖ.
    ďHow disrespectful and insulting to me that you tell me not to disturb your PET in your bed. Who do you think you are?Ē

    Do you see how that sounds? Who do I think I am? Itís my pet, my bed, my house. Who do you think you are? From my point of view, youíre disrespecting and insulting me with your reaction to my request that you not disturb him because he was in pain and could hardly walk. I was also not comfortable just home from surgery but was willing to share my bed with you, when I probably would have been more comfortable alone, before you exploded and started spewing obscenities at me.

     
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    Old 09-15-2005, 07:27 AM   #17
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Rosequartz,

    I hate the thought of giving up myself. My parents were married 56 years when my father passed away. My sister & her husband will hit their 30 year anniversary next year. My brother and his second wife are at the 13 year mark. I take marriage very seriously - and my commitment to it. However, it is becoming so blatantly obvious that my husband does NOT take any of it seriously. If he did, it would have been somewhere on his ever-changing list of priorities. There has always been & probably always will be something or someone who gets listed above the marriage.

    The workbook is a great tool. I'm trying to be honest with you but do keep in mind that, just like you, I'm struggling to be honest with myself as well. I keep hoping for that miracle revelation to hit my husband...for his parents to give him that much needed parental talking to...for his friend to ask him what the heck he's looking for in a woman. Still no phone call from him...no email either but that could be due to a lack of a phone at the trailer. I'm sure it's not going to be easy for him to acquire one considering he is delinquent with his yellow pages ad (over $700) and has two unpaid cell phones (totaling about $800) along with several other delinquent bills. Unless if his parents get the phone for him.

    I've mulled things over so many times. I've hardly slept more than 3 hours a night for the past two weeks - worrying about him and wondering WHAT is going on and what brought on this sudden silence. Wondering what made him pull the rug out from underneath my feet. Wondering if he realizes that I didn't abandon him, but simply could not subject myself to yet another hostile environment and cold, cold 'welcome'.

    Your conversations with your boyfriend mirror the conversations I have with my husband - or struggle to have. When I try to explain myself over and over again, as plain and simple to understand as I can, not only does it get me nowhere...I also get accused of starting an argument. I don't see it as an argument at all - and will tell him so, that we are 'discussing' something. He doesn't see it that way.

    His friend one night made a comment that told me instantly that he was seeing some things in my husband. His friend & I were both discussing one of our favorite shows...Law & Order Criminal Intent. I told him I liked the male detective on the show because of his psychological skill at figuring out what makes each suspect tick. (Keep in mind, my husband feels he is quite the authority on psychology and has tried to drill all those 'illnesses' into my head that he's diagnosed me with). I was discussing with his friend an episode I'd watched the previous week and how the detective made the remark, "Con artists love crisis...it's where they do their best work." My husband piped up with, "Oh - so now you're calling me a con artist?!" You can respect some ACTOR on a tv show, but not my knowledge?!" I responded with, "I realize it is just a tv show and that is not what I said just now at all (his friend just sat there looking at him). I did not call you anything. I was discussing a tv show and I do know that shows such as this hire writers with that sort of background though to make the episode as realistic as possible." His friend let me finish and looked at my husband and said, "Geez, do you have a guilty conscience or something?" No reply....

    So I know his friend is recognizing some things. How can he not see them? Everyone else recognizes it when I relay these incidents to them. What I can't understand is, with his own friend making these remarks to him, why isn't anything sinking in at all? I wonder if his friend is 'talking' to him about this during this sudden silence period? While he may be a 'bum', he at least has common sense and seems to really want to find a nice woman to build a life with. He's commented that I hardly seem like the type to cheat, etc. Stated that I don't give off that impression AT ALL. I hope he's asking my husband just what it is he's looking for and why he treats me as he does.

    Like you, I have had to 'justify' visiting my dog at my mom's and have been told I go 'overboard' with it. This is extremely irritating to me when I see my husband drag his dog with him literally everywhere he goes...to work leaving the truck running all day with the a/c on...out to dinner, same deal. He was irritated when we pulled out of the hotel parking lot to go on a 4th of July weekend get-away and his dog was being left with his friend. As he put my car in reverse he told me, "If anything happens to that dog while we're gone, stay away from me for a month. You always have to make plans that don't include Skeeter and I think you do this intentionally..." Here we go again. You can't get it into his head that nobody else is taking their dogs on every single trip...and that dogs simply aren't permitted everywhere you go. Not all hotels accept pets...public places such as the amusement park we were going to only allow service pets. He just doesn't get it!

    Keep reading the book - maybe I'll grab a copy of it myself. But if you can get the workbook, it will really help you assess your individual situation. It's interesting how you mention your surgery and his lack of supportiveness. Last July I had a rather extensive oral surgery. I informed my husband of the date/time as soon as I made the appt and reminded him periodically afterwards. The day before the appt. I asked if he could maybe go with me. He asked where the oral surgeon's office was...I told him. Suddenly, the location was 'inconvenient' to him. He asked what time the appt was. I told him...that, too, was 'inconvenient' for him. I told him since they weren't sedating me not to worry about it. I could drive myself and should be OK. He told me to call him afterwards so he'd know I was OK. I did - 3 times - and got his voice mail every time. I went home to doze and he called me at 5:00 - irritated that I had not called him. I told him to check his voice mail because I'd called 3 times. He said, "Oh - my cell phone never rang."

    It sounds to me that your boyfriend's disorder is just as serious as my husband's. Too many similarities are there. That's why, if you have the willpower to let it go, you should. My husband holds steadfast to his denial. It's always someone else with the illness/disorder; it's always someone else's fault. Just when I think things are going better, BAM (like now). You mentioned how tired you are...I used to be able to make it on 6-8 hours of sleep. Nowadays - on the weekends, I'm sleeping 10-11 hours. I think our bodies are trying to tell us something to?

    Write again and let me know your thoughts. I want to work on that letter to try to get it in the mail by tomorrow so that hopefully it will arrive at his parents' by Saturday. How's it going with you? Any contact from him?

     
    Old 09-15-2005, 06:19 PM   #18
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Scared Wife - Is your husband in counselling regularly now? It's hard to believe that they said he could get worse and need inpatient treatment for 3 yrs minimum! That's very scary. We are dealing with something that is way beyond our control here. How can a person's mind be that twisted that they just don't see reality? It makes me mad at his parents, who are both dead, but I know they messed him up. But what good does it do to be mad at them, I'm making excuses for his behavior. He has to control it, you can't go thru life blaming your parents (although he doesn't). He idolizes his mother and says she protected him from his siblings because he was a little monster and they all wanted to kill him....he says he was a mama's boy. You know it's funny, one of the things I was reading says they like to keep something close to remind them of loved ones when they're not around, so they don't "forget" and feel abandoned. He has a picture of his mom on his headboard. I guess that's why. Oh and you will love this. The counsellor told him "we" have communication problems. There were communications problems in his family. I think I communicate very well, however this is obvious when it's pointed out and I didn't even "see" it before. He always told me that his dad couldn't talk (because he had a couple strokes), and his mom couldn't hear (losing her hearing/alzheimers). Of course they couldn't communicate if one couldn't speak and the other couldn't hear.....(smacks head).....LOL what was I thinking? Why didn't that ever register with me? You learn to communicate from your family! Duh! I feel so stupid that I missed that!
    I'm a little concerned about what your husband is doing with his bills. I hope that doesn't affect your credit. Are you aware that he may be able to go out and get loans/credit and you will be responsible? If you don't know about them, and he doesn't pay them, (possibly gives a different address, his parents house for example....you will never see the bill) it will have repercussions for you. I would get a copy of your credit report, if I were you.
    So how long is his friend staying there? I'm guessing the guy will get sick of his behavior and try to find somewhere else to go pretty soon. I hope he gets a few licks in first and tells your husband what world class jerk he's being.
    Do your husbands parents know he's borderline? Do your friends and family know? Or does everyone just attribute his behavior to other things?
    You know I read something in this book today that makes me want to cry. My mom is a diabetic and has so much trouble keeping her blood sugar down. This one really hit home. Asking a borderline to just change his behavior is like asking a diabetic to just produce more insulin. That one really stops me in my tracks. It's not like I don't have enough info as it is, but man it just drives it home, that it's just not possible. It's not going to happen....EVEN if they wanted to! And we can't even get them to want to.
    How old are you guys again? I know you told me, but I looked and didn't see it....we've written so much here! I'm almost 46 (next month) and he's 44.
    I can't believe he drags his dog around and runs the car all day with the air on! Where do you live? I'm in Chicago. I love dogs, but I think what he's doing is comical!
    You know I told you I had thyroid surgery. It was thyroid nodules, and turned out to be a multi-nodular goiter. I met my ex in Dec of last year. Maybe a month or 2 later I started feeling like I had something in my throat, when it finally culminated with all the tests, etc, it was May when I had the surgery. I'm 45 yrs old, never been in the hospital, never broke any bones, never been seriously sick. I've been very lucky. I was terrified of the surgery, but it went great (but that's beside the point). I'm into a lot of metaphysical stuff, and so is my mom. I believe the body works in mysterious ways, with energy blockages and such. Chakras, aura's, etc...
    Well I read somewhere, and my mom even said that when you have trouble with your throat it's because you need to SAY something to someone, and you aren't saying it. I was biting my tongue since the beginning of this relationship, not totally, but holding back enough of what I wanted to say, holding back on stuff I should have said. I really wonder if that's related. I've also read that if you have trouble with your ears, it's because you're not "hearing" something that you should......Interesting huh?
    Now, I had a mammo a few weeks ago, and I have to go next Fri the 23'rd for another one and an ultrasound. They found.....get this a 9mm "NODULE" in my right breast.....well I told him, and he was worried, and now says, he hopes it's not cancer, but whatever it is I'll get thru it alone, and he will never know what happenned. We try to be so supportive of these azzholes, we read books, message boards, in a frantic effort to understand and SUPPORT them, and they turn their backs on us! You with your oral surgery, me with this! I wish we could communicate off the board, but I know we can't....it's against the rules, but I would love to talk to you on the phone, but it's just not possible....bummer.
    I apologize for the length, that's why I didn't write today at work, I knew it was gonna be long....LOL
    Take care of yourself, and get some sleep! This stress affects us negatively, and we have to take care of ourselves! Can you bring your dog back home? He would probably be great company! I'll talk to you soon!

     
    Old 09-15-2005, 07:17 PM   #19
    Scared Wife
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Rosequartz,

    Tell me about it...I've never been so darned educated about the mental health field in all my life. I guess if we walk away with nothing else, we will both possess more knowledge and that's never a bad thing.

    My husband's parents are strange, too. At least what I've been told by him and the way they've been (or not been) towards me. To my knowledge, they do not know about the BPD. I think they MAY be starting to realize that something's just not right though. I think they may also be starting to realize that, in spite of what they've been told by their son, I'm not the problem.

    I finished my letter and borrowed a lot from yours because it helped keep me on track. It was so easy to relate to because of the similarities. I'm putting it in the mail tomorrow. It should arrive at his parents' house either Saturday or Monday. Keep your fingers crossed. I emphasized my love and caring for him, but I was also very direct. When I get a chance tomorrow at work, I'll copy and paste the parts I added to yours, etc.

    We live between Cleveland and Akron. I'm at my mom's - with my dog! When he asked me to leave, that was probably his biggest mistake on his part. It felt good to be in an environment that wasn't hostile. It felt good to sleep in a clean bed (his dog used to urinate in ours and it would be left for me to 'discover' at bedtime). It felt good to sit on a clean couch or walk around without having to step over and clean up dog accidents. It felt good to have a phone conversation with a friend without worrying about something being overhead and turned into something it wasn't. It felt good to not feel like I had to beat the clock all the time and talk to my mom about every day things without those turning into a dispute. Don't get me wrong...I still missed my husband. I just didn't miss the abuse. He has no concept of how much more difficult he made it for himself in that regard.

    My husband's credit was not so great when we married and has been on a steady downward spiral since last May. His credit was questionable in mid-summer. I'd be really surprised if anyone would give him credit - and he doesn't know my ss info. either. Never had any interest in me that deep.
    Plus, with his laziness, if his father didn't fill out the application for him, it would never get off the ground. I have not seen them online and they've been at that trailer since Aug. 29th. That tells me there is probably an 'issue' getting a phone line. There was nothing out of line on my credit report last year. I should probably check into it again though just to play it safe.

    Have you actually heard his counselor say this 'we' thing yourself - or is that what HE's telling you? I ask because here's another scenario I experienced. Our psychologist was in the same neighboring town as my husband's last customer who he was building an addition for. The wife owned the local bookstore. She and I clicked right away - great woman. She mentioned something about me living with my mom & asked if she was OK. I said she was and kept it simple and told her my husband & I were having some problems. That we'd been seeing Dr. So&So near her bookstore. She said she knew him. I asked her if she'd ever heard anything about him - good or not so good. She said she didn't know him or of him on that level, only from him coming in to order books. My husband wasn't present when this conversation took place. MONTHS LATER, the day after he stormed out of the last session (Nov), he called me freaking out over his dislike for the psychologist and went so far as to say that the homeowner's wife expressed shock & concern when he told her who we were seeing because he had a reputation for ruining all of the marriages in that town.

    Now...what's your take on that? Don't you think while we had our woman to woman talk, she'd have expressed this shock/concern/comment to me - back in August? Especially since I'd asked her? He made it up. Plain & simple.

    My husband started out with the psychologist for about 2-3 sessions and quit, stating he had to focus on his business/money. Shortly after that, he signed up for flying lessons. In October, he said his parents wanted to build a duplex for him but because of our situation would keep it in their names. I didn't have a problem with that. Next thing I know, he's handing me sweetest day cards & asking me for a dissolution (easier version of a divorce) saying it would 'just be on paper' so that he could have the duplex put in his name. That's when I realized how flimsy our marriage was & agreed to it. A few days later when I had my head on his chest he said, "I really appreciate you agreeing to this. Since you are, I feel it only fair to go back to the psychologist." I told him when the next appt. was. He showed up, wigged out within 15 minutes (I'll go into that more tomorrow) and stormed out.

    Your surgery certainly sounds like it was scary. I'm glad it all turned out OK for you and sure hope this mammogram thing turns out to be nothing at all. I have to schedule mine soon, too. What you said about trouble with the throat...that's interesting. I keep getting an annoying tickle/cough.

    Well, I need to get to bed. I'll write more in the morning when I get a break. You take care and get some rest yourself. Give Junior a hug from me and Stu.

     
    Old 09-15-2005, 07:55 PM   #20
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Scared Wife
    I didn't realize you moved to be with your mom. So you moved out of your place, and he moved out too? Is your place empty? I thought he moved out and you were still in your home. My mistake!
    You're right about all the knowledge LOL. I know what to look for now. I know how to recognize borderline behavior, and also narcissistic behavior. My last boyfriend was a narcissist, which I found out after the fact, although I knew something was "missing" with him, I couldn't put my finger on it. I read up a lot of good stuff on ********** too. Now I think I would be able to spot one....LOL
    I'm glad you wrote you letter. I bet that made you feel better. You will sleep good tonite after getting it off your chest! I'm glad I was able to help motivate that process!
    Funny what you say about beating the clock. He used to come over everyday after work and we would arrive at my place about the same time. after a while he started to pressure me about a key because he doesn't want to "wait" outside for me. He feels insulted that he's waiting in the parking lot and ringing the bell, like an ordinary person....he felt entitled to a key. He never asked nicely, he always brought it up snarly.....well if I had a key, yada yada yada. One time the power was out in my hallway and the doorbell didn't work. I didn't know he was ringing. He was furious that he couldn't get in and went to a bar and called me, although there is a pay phone by the gas station 2 doors down. He went on and on about....well if I had a key this would a never happenned...... It was a power trip with him, wanting the key, that way when he got mad he could storm out and COME BACK at will. Otherwise he storms out, he doesn't come back unless I let him. He wanted CONTROL. I didn't think he deserved a key, OR control or me and my life. I don't like the way he tried to bully me into it. So I know what you mean about beating the clock. I was always rushing right home from work, even though I may have wanted to stop for gas, a pack of cigarettes, a gallon of milk, or God forbid, what if I get caught by a train? I was worried about his rath of being kept waiting.
    Oh another thing, he was used to taking a nap after work for an hour, which I would have no problem with. He wanted to come over and take a nap. Cool, he's out of my hair, I can unwind, read my mail, feed Junior, etc. Only problem was, he wanted to just take a nap and get up and shower after. We got into a power struggle about that because I didn't want him coming home from work smelly, stinky, and sweaty (and boy does this guy smell BAD when he sweats) and climbing into a clean bed. I used to kid him that he the stuff the oozes out of his poors was toxic. I really wan't kidding. I asked him to please shower first! He exploded! If he can't take a nap after work, he'll go home and take a nap in his own bed (like that's suppossed to hurt me). I told him if that stink gets in the matress, it won't come out. So it ended up being a power struggle with him showering sometimes before he napped, and sometimes not napping.
    I know what you mean about missing him, but not missing the abuse. I feel th e exact same way.
    No I never heard the counsellor say "WE", I'm going on what he tells me, which I realize may or may not be true. But of course the counsellor is only getting one side of the story, whatever he chooses to tell him, so the information is slanted in his favor right off the bat.
    As far as the bookstore lady, you're probably right, he made it all up. You didn't sense any type of adverse reaction from her, regardless of what she may have said, did you?
    Oh when he said he thinks it's only fair to go back to the psychologist because you agreed to the duplex thing, that's so much like what mine does.....they are using getting help for themselves as a bargaining chip with us.

     
    Old 09-15-2005, 09:38 PM   #21
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    To Rose and Lori,

    I am the one who recommended you leave him alone for a while. He has to learn to sink or swim. As I have stated before a borderline won't seek help usually, unless he/she hits rock bottom. There is no bottom if someone is there to bail them out.

    Rose,

    your situation sounds like it could get dangerous. I felt your pain and anger and frustration in reading your letter to your boyfriend. You need some time to heal yourself. Don't take his calls, don't see him. Allow yourself to mend. He needs to spend several months in counseling, possibly be medicated.

    Lori,

    How are you doing? I know it's been a long time since you've talked to your husband. I realize that it's frustrating not knowing what's going on. You are correct in giving the advise that you have to be strong, and you must give yourself time to heal. Look our for yourself.

    Both of you are strong, smart women. Do not allow yourselves to be manipulated by theses borderline men. If they were seeking help and were in counseling, if they understood their diagnoses, if they were medicated.... things may be different. but the damage has been done....

    I thank God everyday that I have a husband who understands me and loves me the way I am, borderline, recovering, but not well at present.

    Lori,

    Sorry I haven't been around lately. I've had some problems, and I hope you will recognize me now. I have been sleeping like crazy, when I went for weeks without sleeping at all. Now I sleep practically all night, then take a 2-4 hour nap in the afternoon. Today if the first time that I've been awake enough to actually write more than a few sentences.
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    Old 09-16-2005, 06:58 AM   #22
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Nakita, Thanks for responding. I haven't talked to him in approx a week, and he hasn't called since the last conversation we had when he was negotiating to see me and I told him why should I see him when I don't want to? That triggered him and he started swearing at me and I said (for the first time), don't call me any more. He did call one time and left a message and said that he won't call me anymore like I asked, and he's really disappointed in me, and I broke his heart. he hasn't IM'd since Sunday. It's hard to believe that maybe he will leave me alone. I always think somehow he will try again, maybe not. I agree that I need time alone, and that's what I've been doing for quite some time now. I know he needs counselling, but he says he will quit if I don't see him. He thinks he's making an effort and I should be making an effort to see him. In a way I see his point, but seeing him is very stressful, and not enjoyable sometimes. I'm just staying away, and I hope he continues to get counselling, but I'm afraid he will just stop since there is no payoff (I'm not seeing him).
    What do you think?
    When you say that my situation could get dangerous.....sometimes it scares me. Do you think borderlines are capable of being physically violent or are they mostly all bark and no bite? I realize there is no hard fast rule, but I was wondering if you knew, just in general.
    Thanks again!

     
    Old 09-16-2005, 12:42 PM   #23
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Nakita,

    How wonderful to hear from you...Of course, I recognize you. I thought I did in an earlier post but wasn't completely sure until now. I've been so worried about you! Did you see my earlier thread from a couple of weeks ago to you? What all has been going on with you? I am soooo happy to see you back on here! We need you!! I have been taking your advice in leaving my husband alone. I'm beginning to suspect his parents may be catching on to some things as well but can't be sure. The fact that his mom didn't call and have the gas transferred 'for' him and the fact that no phone line seems to have been installed over the past two weeks tells me that they are not helping him to the extent I really thought they would. Glad you've been keeping up with me in all of this because I so value your insight. As I said, I was really getting concerned about you. I hope you are doing better now and look forward to yakking with you more. I missed you!

    Rosequartz (& Nakita!),

    I put the letter in the mail this morning. It was carefully written - I used a lot of your lines from your letter, but I did my best to keep it from sounding angry, although he will react defensively to it regardless of how carefully I word myself. I made sure I reiterated to him that I love him and care about him and did not abandon him at all but pointed out that I simply cannot subject myself to his hostility and what feels like hatred of me. I'm pressed for time here at work today and will quote a few things that I wrote to get both of your opinions. I just called things as I see them without coming across as attacking him.

    I will be on here later tonight I'm sure...since my nights are always free these days. Thank you both for writing - I look forward to our chats later.

    Lori

     
    Old 09-16-2005, 07:45 PM   #24
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Scared Wife and Nakita
    Scared wife I'm glad you sent the letter and I hope he will read it and it will sink in, although I'm hoping for a lot. I know. But you did your part, that's all you can do. He has to do his part. Mine hasn't signed on to the IM, but I know he's on line because I have another way to look him up. I guess he took me off his IM. He threatened to do that. Oh well. That's the way it goes I guess. I"m still reading my book.
    Hope to hear from you guys soon!

     
    Old 09-16-2005, 08:00 PM   #25
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Nakita & Rosequartz,

    Hope you're both having a nice Friday evening. Nakita, how are you feeling? I really hope you're on the mend. How's that terrific husband of yours? Feel free to dump on me any time you need to - I'm here for you, too. Please don't forget that.

    I thought I'd share a couple of paragraphs from the letter (it's too long to copy all of it) I sent to my husband in the mail today. I did my best not to let it come across as an angry or accusing letter. I sure hope both of you agree that I accomplished that. I am fully aware that he will react defensively about it - if he bothers to react at all. Two of my friends think he will try to do something nice for me, etc. I highly doubt that. He's too much of an angry person hitting rock bottom to do something 'nice' for me. If he did, I'd be totally shocked. Here goes:

    Do you remember the way you used to talk to me when we first met? How you told me I was perfect, have good values & morals, was responsible with a great work ethic you could only dream of finding in an employee for yourself? You didn't want me to change. (Next I inserted Rose's line about being talked to like a subordinate not as a wife).

    I'm not your scapegoat. I'm not your whipping boy. I am not your enemy. I am your wife. I deserve to be treated with respect and nothing less. You are responsible for controlling your own anger, not me.

    I treat people the way I want to be treated, and I cannot remember one instance where I treated you disrespectfully, raised my voice at you to try to intimidate you, called you names, attacked your self-esteem, sitting beside you & coldly ignoring you, glaring at you with hatred in my eyes, threatening to leave you, dangling past relationships in front of you & comparing you to them or any of the other tactics you have used on me.

    Xxxxx, please listen to my plea: PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES. (I listed what I've done in recent months alone that would be considered loving/caring.)

    This time, I have absolutely no idea what is troubling you. I have spent the past week and a half wondering if something bad happened at work, if you got some kind of bad news, if you had a disagreement with one or both of your parents or Steve, if maybe your sister's furniture was damaged while in the storage unit, if creditors are coming down on you hard, if you got bad news about your lawsuit. I have no idea. You gave me directions to the trailer that last Sunday night you spent at the hotel. The last thing I expected was to be made to feel so unwelcome/unwanted so suddenly at the end of that week. Part of me wants so badly to show up and see if you're OK. The other part of me remembers too clearly how I was made to feel the last two times that I did. There's been no phone call or email offering an apology or explanation so that I'd know where I stand with you. Is this fair to me, Xxxxx? (Next I wrote my version of those wonderful "I" statements)

    You throw things in my face. You blame me for your unpaid bills. You tell me I don't love you & show supportiveness in spite of my continual actions & words that prove the opposite. You tell me I smell from a sandwich I had for lunch & go so far as to blast the a/c & put the windows down in the car. You call me names - & I'm not talking about those said in jest. You accuse me of things. You tell me you've got a hacking program in my home pc and my work pc as well as in your parents' pc. You check my cell phone to see who I've talked to. You will openly eavesdrop on a phone call from Kim. I have repeatedly overlooked these behaviors & accepted your explanations for you and have even made excuses of my own for you. Do you do these things to Steve? To your parents?

    When you agreed to the marriage counseling, I felt you were committed to the marriage. When you quit because of business/financial problems, I was understanding & continued with it on my own. In weeks you found time & funding for flying lessons with no mention of returning to counseling. It hit me every time I saw you pull out that credit card to fill up the tank in Greg's plane and when you treated your employee to $75 worth of fireworks after just handing him a $650 paycheck. When you expressed dislike for the dr., I suggested we find another one. You refused. I have watched you commit yourself to causes involving hobbies & friends, but not to me or to us. That hurts. That's a disappointment. That's not 'commitment'. Still, I kept at it - seeking help every place I could find it: counselors, psychologists, support groups, books, workbooks, message boards. How can I continue to get help for problems I'm repeatedly being told I don't have? Every counselor eventually questions me on your lack of involvement, your lack of participation & tells me I extend myself too much to you because they don't see you giving anything substantial back. I refused to accept that - because I believed in you. Some have told me you don't even act like you 'like' me, much less 'love' me. I refused to accept that; I chose to believe you. They question your priorities & where your marriage falls into that ever-changing list, because you will obligate & extend yourself to others but not to your wife or your marriage. This 'believing' in you - that's one of the main things you were asking for, right? Why would you even want me to go it alone if it's supposed to be for 'us' in the long run? I don't understand that from you. Where's your support of me? Of us?


    There's more to this letter but I'm getting tired & don't have great lighting by my computer right now. I'll share more tomorrow if you want to hear more. I just kept reiterating throughout the letter my love for him, that I'm not sitting here holding a grudge as he likes to think - but that I simply feel unwanted & unwelcome & cannot subject myself to that hostility anymore.

    What do you girls think? I almost didn't mail it - I almost chickened out. But, then I figured I've got practically nothing to lose at this point anyway. Now I'm bracing for the response (or the lack of one). Neither of which is going to be easy on my mind or my heart.

    Hope you guys are doing something a little fun tonight. We had a local festival last weekend that I spent an hour walking around. Tonight I just opted for the couch & a nap...after sharing a snack with my pooch. Nakita, is that little pup of yours leaving your medications alone?

    Lori

     
    Old 09-17-2005, 02:26 PM   #26
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Lori and Nakita
    Lori - I thought the letter was EXCELLENT! I'm glad you sent it and didn't chicken out. Hopefully it will be received well! The only thing I noticed (and don't take this wrong), was where you said you wrote all the "I" statements which they tell us we should do, and then the next paragraph, you wrote a lot of "YOU" statements. He may get defensive about that, but you communicated your point. He would probably get defensive about "I" statements anyway, so whats the diff....
    I've noticed when I use the "I" statements, I've been told that I'm selfish. It's been pointed out to me....."listen to yourself, I, I, I.....you're selfish", so either way we can't win...
    Glad you spent some quality time and a snack with Stu.....those little guys are great, they love us unconditionally.
    Nakita what kind of dog do you have?
    Talk to you guys soon!

     
    Old 09-17-2005, 06:32 PM   #27
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Rose,

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, I second-guessed myself about those "I" statements and how they'd be perceived by my husband as well. I, too, have been called self-centered quite often. Yet, I guess I took that paragraph to be me standing up for myself after years of ugly insults that my family & friends all say are anything but description of ME. They felt his insults described him though.

    I did my best not to make it seem like a stone-throwing match. That wasn't my intent anyway. I just needed to be heard for once - and I think he also needed to hear that he did not come across as Husband of the Year with any of my counselors. At all. That's going to be a bitter pill for him to swallow as well. I just want him to look at HIMSELF for once - if he's capable of tha.

    Well, still not contact on my end either. Hope you're doing something more exciting with your Saturday night than I am. I'm going to go meet a girlfriend for a bite to eat and then I may be back on here later. I hope Nakita's OK. She's been a Godsend for me, and it sounds like she's been having a rough time lately.

    Lori

     
    Old 09-17-2005, 09:15 PM   #28
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Hi Lori,
    I went to my moms tonite with Junior for pizza and to watch Kill Bill. Wow what a violent movie, but nice to see such tough chicks! Have you ever seen it? She got 1 and 2, but I told her 1 is enough violence for one night! LOL When I got home, I had an IM from him. Just a smiley face, and a message that he wants to put me on his IM, and I should accept or decline. I guess I'm not totally rid of him. He removed me from the IM as he threatened to do, and now he wants to be back on it....LOL I'm not laughing at him, I feel sorry for him, but he's just so darm predictable! I guess you could say predictably unpredictable.... I haven't accepted or declined, because he was on line, and I signed in invisible and didn't want to deal with him. He signed out now, so maybe I will accept so he will be able to put me back on. Part of me thinks (and seems like Nakita advises too) I should just keep the damn door shut. Oh well, I'm still not going to see him.

     
    Old 09-17-2005, 11:55 PM   #29
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Lori,

    That was a great letter, and I'm proud of you for mailing it. My puppy, 8 months old now, black lab, in case you've forgotten, is almost 60 pounds! She is quite the handful! she's very loving and gives great hugs, but she still pulls a lot at the leash and I have a hard time hooking her up in the yard. She hasn't eaten anything weird lately, but she does love plastic water bottles

    I've pretty much done nothing this week but rest. I've had some horrible migraines and depression, so my wonderful husband bought me the first season of that TV show Lost on DVD, and we've been watching it this week. I have satellite tv and don't get the major networks, so I don't get to see those shows. I haven't even cooked much this week, he's done most of it.

    I did make it to the laundry mat tonite, but only to wash. It's not supposed to rain, so I hung the stuff out on the line to dry by tomorrow afternoon.

    I'll be doing a bit of running around this coming week, doctor's appts, etc... hopefully I'll be getting my medical card (keep your fingers crossed). My doctor wants to do an MRI since I'm having so many migraines, but I can't afford it without insurance or a job or a medical card. SSI takes sooooo long.

    Rose: I've known some borderlines who can rage and rage and get violent. That is what I meant about being dangerous. I didn't mean to scare you, but you should be aware. I hope by telling him that you didn't want anything to do with him, and his acknowledgement of that, that he will leave you alone now. You have nothing to feel quilty about, and if he stops counseling, it's not your fault!.

    Well, girls. I'm going to get to bed.
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    Old 09-18-2005, 01:20 PM   #30
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    Re: letter to a borderline boyfriend

    Thanks Nakita,
    I feel that it's possible. I printed off a list of signs of emotional abuse, and he fit every one of them except becoming violent with me, and hurting something I love (my pet). I thought what am I gonna do wait around for him to complete the list? It's scary. He knows how much my little Junior means to me and he is SO SO jealous! I don't really trust him. My friends keep telling me that I shouldn't have him around, I'm putting Junior at risk, is it worth it, etc. I know they're right. Yesterday I did accept his request to put me back on his IM and he sent a smiley face, no message. I sent a smiley face back, when I knew he was offline. This morning I noticed he sent a broken heart sad face. I didn't respond. I don't mean to string him along, I guess I want to hope. I'm not sure why, because I know it would mean setting myself up for disappointment.
    Since you are aware of yourself being borderline, does it help you control the borderline behavior? I'm wondering if he would become aware, if it would help. You know your husband is great and all, does it make you feel more secure?
    Your puppy sounds like a handful, but they're so cute at that age. Have you thought about taking him to an obedience class? It's lots of fun for them and you and they learn to socialize with other dogs etc. You should check it out! I had Junior in obedience and then agility. Now that's some fun, it helps burn off some of their energy and it's really cool. You run an obstacle course with your dog. We really enjoyed it, but he's retired now, being almost 14, he's got a little arthritis and I don't want him jumping more than he has to.
    OK, talk to you guys soon!

     
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