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    Old 09-29-2005, 02:47 PM   #1
    Piranna65
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    Exclamation the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    hello all...

    Some of you have been following my situation reguarding my fiance's parents digging him a hole of debt! My fiance has asked me to help him get a loan for one of the cards so it can be paid off at a lower percent rate and help rebuild his credit.

    We spoke to a manager at the local bank we both go through and she told us that if we do this we will both be held responsible if payment isnt made. This I already know. I've told him I will do it. I want us to get a house soon and if we dont get his credit moving then we have no hope. I've already told him it is they're full responsibility and that I will not be held lialable for them not paying what we expect them to pay. He told me he'd make sure it gets paid if they cant do it. I would throw a fit.

    I dont want this to effect our relationship and upcoming marriage. I know odds are it will, i'd be kidding myself if I thought it wouldnt effect us. But is there anything I should do to make sure this doenst fall back on me? I know it seems like a bad idea and i feel so horrible for him right now. He's been trying so hard to get this fixed so we can get our own place soon and it seems like a never ending issue for us and the fact that his parents have no remorse makes me sick. I mean these are my soon to me In-laws.

    ugh... it's just so draining on us because he is the one doing all the work calling this place and that place and making sure the money is in the account (they give it to him) it just seems like they should be the two dealing with this not us. They have ruined the beginning of our lives together and I dont think I can ever forgive them for this that's how ticked off I am with them. I truthfully want nothing to with them after this is finished. His mother already thinks I hate her (no wonder) and I dont want to be on bad terms with her but i feel like she did this to herself. She ruined the chance of us having a nice beginning...It just makes me so angry!

     
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    Old 09-29-2005, 06:59 PM   #2
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Piranna ~ I know all too well your predicament and I hate to tell you this but I would not cosign on anything with your fiance at this moment. You are not married yet and as someone who had 2 broken engagements before I actually got married, I strongly recommend that you find some other alternative. When I was engaged the second time we had bought a house together and thank God is was a Sonyma mortgage & since he already had a house for investment purposes was not eligible so the title was in mine & my brother's name which worked out in my favor when our engagement was broken. He was abusive & controlling and would have taken everything if this weren't the case

    Anyway, I am not saying that this will be the case for you but until you actually say "I Do", you need to protect yourself. PLEASE do not put yourself in a situation where you are financially responsible with somebody you are not yet legally married to....you may regret it one day.
    `
    ~ Goody

     
    Old 09-29-2005, 08:57 PM   #3
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    i can see your concern, because I am sure with your experience you know and i trust your advice. I just feel so sick about everything. I want so badly to make this all go away but I dont want to leave him because of his parents wrong doings.

    I cant help but think this may never go away. And I want to look past it (thats why i mostly stay away from the house) I just want his family out of the picture so badly!! And I know until this debt issue is gone they will always be part of the family (not that they wont be around after).

    I just cant grasp and or get past the fact of what they have done to him. They ruined so much for him. It makes me sick inside. I hate them for it and I dont think I will ever look at them the way I used to. I just want to make them take this debt and be done with it but the banks will not give his parents a loan. They cannot get a credit card of their own...

     
    Old 09-30-2005, 05:41 PM   #4
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Well goody, I have good and bad news. The "good" news is the loan wasnt approved. The bad news means we wont be able to afford a house until this debt is gone and his credit is re-built =(

    Im extremely upset. If we couldnt get a loan for 5000 how will we ever get one for a house?! The bank lady told him his credit is so far gone that they couldnt give him a loan. And since my car isnt under my name they cannot use it as collateral (i knew that already).

    So Im super upset I started of list of what I think we need to discuss with his parents about them 'giving up'! I feel like they shouldnt have the perks or benefits of some of these things when they have left us without the option of getting our own house! Im sick to my stomach with them. And I can honestly say I hate them and mean it now.

    My list consists of 1) they should have only one or NO computer (they have 2)
    2) They should no longer have a cable modem to play their online video games or cable for that matter. That could be an extra 80 a month towards the debt!! I called my fiancee and ran this by him a while ago and he said he has and its worthless they will not do it. told him im ready to sit down with them and just let them know what they have done ect...

     
    Old 09-30-2005, 07:00 PM   #5
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Hi Piranna, I've followed your story here since it's beginning and I am so sorry that you are faced with such a huge obstacle in your life.
    In many ways it is an immovable object. You can NOT change his parents. Their bad money habits will be there tommorrow & next year & ten years from now, etc.
    And it's quite probable that the man you love will not change either. He will bail out his parents or refuse to prosecute or clean up their debts for the rest of his life. (or have a wife who is always angry at him because he loves his parents and doesn't know how to say no)
    The only person you can change in this whole equation is YOU. And that means applying the Serenity Prayer and Ann Landers Rule....
    1) Grant me the Serenity
    To accept the things I cannot Change
    Courage to change the things I can
    And the wisdom to know the difference

    2) "Would you be better off WITH him or withOUT him?"


     
    Old 09-30-2005, 08:07 PM   #6
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    thank you for for you input ruth, I know you and goody are the two that have been here the most.

    Im going to talk to him tonight. This whole thing has me stressed, again. Im going to mention the fact that if this isnt something he is more stern about that Im going to have to re-think our engagment. I dont think it will be along those terms, but it will be in the subject. Maybe if he see's he could lose me because of this he will do more.

    You are right, I know I cannot change them but if i can make them get rid of some of the crap they have that they do not deserve then im doing something right. I want them to suffer just like we are. An I cant wait to explain the unfairness here. I have yet to voice my opinion to them and it's done, I've built it up and im ready to confront them and scold. I dont care how I do it or what they think afterwards because they didnt think of us while they did this the past 2 years!

    I am so use to him that i dont think I could break his heart and leave him. In all honesty I dont want to leave him we are good together this is the only pit in our relationship and it hurts like hell sometimes. In the end you may be right, if im better without this then I may have to say goodbye but right now that isnt something im willing to do...

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 06:25 AM   #7
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    I would imagine there may be quite a few confrontations and demands you will be making in the decades ahead...
    You'll gain nothing and the patterns will remain - only your husband will be in the middle.

    I don't remember if the two of you have considered counseling. Not the parents - just the two of you.
    In America you can't make someone give up their things - although I understand that your feelings of anger are pretty much overwhelming you right now.
    I'd rather see you work through the anger than lash out at your fiance's parents. That's never a pretty sight to leave in your husband-to-be's head!!

    They may be deadbeats and financial imbeciles but they ARE his parents. Setting yourself up in an adversarial role will not help you... Making sure they NEVER have access to you or their son's credit along with ample use of the word "No" will help you.

    The older I've gotten the more I see how corrosive anger can be... on the one who is angry - not the one they are angry at.
    This can eat away at you until your entire personality has changed. You wouldn't even be the person that your fiance fell in love with anymore...
    Please get some outside help in dealing with this crisis - There must be a way if you truly want this to succeed.
    You're in my prayers,
    Ruth

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 07:15 PM   #8
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Piranna~ I must remind you once again that your future in laws ARE NOT going to change. Ruth is right in quoting the serenity prayer.

    I have been following your posts for quite some time and I only see you growing angrier & angrier and allowing this to eat away at you. Your fiance even knows that there is nothing he can do about his parents. It's sad what they did to him....they basically performed identity theft and unless your fiance will prosecute them they literaly got away with it!!

    You are not going to convince these people to get rid of their things and repay you...it is not going to happen. And throughout your life you will see them get more things and stil leave you and your fiance paying their debt. This is not going to get better....it'll only get worse. That is, unless you accept it and leave it behind you and not allow it to eat you up inside.

    Years ago my husband's family allowed our family to take on a large business debt all on our own....it wasn't right and it was soooo unfair, but I did not allow it to get the best of me. Sure it was wrong but the way I look at it is that we survived, had our health, family, love and will not have to ever live with the feeling that we ever did the wrong thing. We are better people and have no regrets. We didn't allow it to affect our relationship or family and we came out of it just fine.

    Unless you can not allow this to eat away at you and your relationship with your fiance any future will be doomed. These people are his family...you must expect that you will spend time with them....not alot, and when you do you need to somewhat be respectful because they are part of your fiance's life. You didn't pick them but they will be part of your life if you choose to marry him.

    That's the reality....and what you must decide is whether or not you can live wiht having them as being a part of your life for as long as you are married. It's obvious how your fiance is not going to give them up so expect them to be a part of your life so long as your fiance is. The question is....do you love him enough to marry into his family???

    ~ Goody who wouldn't like to be in your 2 shoes

     
    Old 10-02-2005, 06:31 AM   #9
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Piranna65
    thank you for for you input ruth, I know you and goody are the two that have been here the most.

    Im going to talk to him tonight. This whole thing has me stressed, again. Im going to mention the fact that if this isnt something he is more stern about that Im going to have to re-think our engagment. I dont think it will be along those terms, but it will be in the subject. Maybe if he see's he could lose me because of this he will do more.

    You are right, I know I cannot change them but if i can make them get rid of some of the crap they have that they do not deserve then im doing something right. I want them to suffer just like we are. An I cant wait to explain the unfairness here. I have yet to voice my opinion to them and it's done, I've built it up and im ready to confront them and scold. I dont care how I do it or what they think afterwards because they didnt think of us while they did this the past 2 years!

    I am so use to him that i dont think I could break his heart and leave him. In all honesty I dont want to leave him we are good together this is the only pit in our relationship and it hurts like hell sometimes. In the end you may be right, if im better without this then I may have to say goodbye but right now that isnt something im willing to do...

    Hi Piranna,
    I have tried not to comment on your situation lately because I didn't want to be a downer, but I have followed your story for some time and with each additional update, I get more and more worried about you. Having experienced firsthand the obstacles and tension family issues can cause in a relationship and the fact that people, especially men, almost inevitably prioritize loyalty to their families above relationships no matter how inappropriate their family's actions and attitudes may be. I am just really concerned that nothing you say or do will get through to your boyfriend and convince him to adopt a less tolerant and forgiving stance toward his family's absurd behavior. His mother seems so incredibly selfish and craves being the center of attention in all of her family members' lives. I think all her whining about you not liking her and not allowing her to be more involved in the wedding (which is obviously completely ludicrous) is a deliberate attempt to manipulate her son into taking sides, at least to some degree, and starting to establish grievances she can reference when she feels the need to interfere in your relationship and ensure that she is always the most important woman in her son's life. Women like this are incredibly toxic, and while I feel terribly sorry for your boyfriend for having such a spoiled, self-absorbed, and scheming mother, I'm afraid that she'll only get worse over time, particularly because his inability to put his foot down and really stand up to her undoubtedly only fuels her audacity.

    I can completely understand everything you're saying and obviously see why you want to get your boyfriend away from under his family's roof (and lessen their influence over him) and get his parents to be more fiscally responsible, but I am really worried for you that this may not be possible. Even if your boyfriend was firmly resolved to crack down on his parents' irresponsible spending and demand that they take over all responsibility for the debt they've piled up in his name, I'm just not sure he'd be able to make any headway. As it is, they are even less likely to change their behavior because he is not forcing them to do so...in fact, I doubt that they will ever improve and fear that their spending will only become worse and more of a burden to your fiance as time passes. You may want to demand that they make chances, but I really think you need to realize that in all likelihood, your efforts will be futile.

    I truly hate to be so blunt, but I'm just really concerned for you that your boyfriend might not be the right choice for you. I know that his family's selfishness, dishonesty, manipulativeness, and fiscal irresponsibility have been the primary obstacle you have faced as a couple, but there are a few other issues that you've mentioned which have also worried me. I just wonder if you may be more mature and ready for marriage than your boyfriend is...the way he resists standing up to his parents and insisting they cover all the debt they've piled up in his name, the way he resisted buying you a ring and wanted to spend his money on more childish and selfish pursuits at the time, the extreme insecurity and jealousy he's displayed, and the fact that he is so young and still lives at home all deeply concern me. I don't want to be overly negative, but I really am worried that you may be getting into something that won't be best for you in the long run.

    I remember being in a similar situation when I was your age, still deeply in love with my second serious, long-term boyfriend and firmly convinced that he was the man I was going to marry. We talked about marriage and he was particularly eager to get engaged, but I couldn't quite overcome my doubts that we were too young (in our very early twenties) for such an adult, permanent committment. I know some people see this differently, but personally I think that such an age, at least if both people attend college and graduate programs and plan on developing ambitious careers, is probably too young for marriage. You seem remarkably mature and clear-headed for your age, but I don't know if your boyfriend is quite as prepared for marriage as you are...I don't presume to know you, and I apologize if I'm overstepping my bounds by expressing these concerns.

    Anyway, the main issue that stood in the way of me committing to my ex was my reluctance to join his family. As much as we might like to believe that we're marrying an individual and not into a family, marriage means that you will become members of each other's families for life. If you don't respect, like, and feel comfortable around your fiance's family, that's a major obstacle that may mean he isn't the right partner for you after all. You should definitely hope for the best in the sense that he's able to escape his family (and particularly his mother)'s influence and that he manages to guard himself against incurring any further financial obligations due to their absurd spending habits (and apparent lack of any guilt when it comes to severely jeopardizing their son's future to satiate their immediate, frivalous material desires), I think you also need to be prepared in case this best case scenario doesn't materialize. The odds are much better that his family will never change and will in fact get more and more careless with money as time passes and they get older and more set in their ways. The odds are also good that your boyfriend won't change in terms of his reluctance to deny all responsibility for their debts and refuse to let them ruin his credit and financial future. In fact, as his parents get older and are less able to work, then retire, and likely develop health problems that require expensive care and medications, then need to move into a costly assisted living facility, you should prepare for the strong possibility that they will only become more and more of a financial burden on your fiance and you as time passes. Once you marry, his debts are your debts, and you will be jointly responsible for all the expenses his parents have already caused him and are likely to keep inflicting on you guys in the future. That means your credit will be as bad as his and neither of you is likely to ever get any kind of loan with decent terms. Your boyfriend's financial future seems pretty bleak, especially now that his parents have seen that he won't do anything if they use his name to rack up huge sums of debt.

    I'm also really concerned that he's displayed so much jealousy and such extreme insecurity, both of which indicate possible emotional instability and could lead to serious issues for your relationship (and while I obviously doubt and hope that this won't be the case, jealousy and insecurity are also two common warning signs of future abuse). All in all, particularly since you are still so young and have only experienced one other relationship with an ex who you still harbor some feelings for, it just seems to me like it might be a mistake to get married in the near future. I sincerely hope this never happens, but it's important to consider the negative what-ifs when considering how to proceed, and If things were to go wrong or if you grow apart as you both get older and mature, divorce is a million times more difficult and expensive than breaking up. Marriage would make you financially linked to him and legally responsible for all the debt incurred by him and possibly even on the hook for some of his family's own debts. I just couldn't personally imagine becoming financially attached to someone whose finances were such a mess, regardless of whether the relationship works out or not, when you have the option of staying together and avoiding any responsibility for his and his family's financial obligations. Anyway, I apologize again for being a downer, but I can't help but be really concerned for you and worried that marriage might not be the best choice for you, at least not anytime soon. But I know that only you know what's best for you, and I truly wish you all the best no matter what you decide...you definitely deserve to be happy! Good luck and take care!

     
    Old 10-02-2005, 04:42 PM   #10
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Stacy!! You are so right by this <<<I think all her whining about you not liking her and not allowing her to be more involved in the wedding (which is obviously completely ludicrous) is a deliberate attempt to manipulate her son into taking sides, at least to some degree>>>>

    Her 2nd son just moved to PA to live with the real father. And she looks at it as "HE (ex hubby and new wife) won" And now that we are getting married and I of course spend more time with my mom discussing wedding then I would her (duh).

    I understand thir spending habits will most likey NEVER change. And that I probably cannot change it, but if working together with my boyfriend can get his credit better then we will be better becauset this will never happen again to him. My mother spoke to his step mom today who called to talk wedding and find out details and let us know that she and my boyfriends dad are more then happy to help us pay for things of course.

    She (step mom) also mentioned that she'd like to help us get out of this situation. She has outstanding credit and mentioned getting a loan for what we need, then paying her (his parents give us the money then we pay it to her). I have a feeling it may be a good idea. She said this would help get my boyfriends credit re-building which is what we need more then ever right now!!

    Stacy- I do have my ring, got it about a month and a half ago. So I do have the ring. And together we have been making deposits on reservation things for the wedding. The problem we now face is getting our own place we anticipated getting a house before our wedding, but they have shot his credit so until it is paid and he is able to rebuild he is screwed. No loan for a car, no loan for a house no loan for anything he ever wants until it is gone and fixed!!! Also he did move out of his parents for a year prior to now. He moved back home to save money to get me my ring and pay for the wedding but we are not in search of our own apartment.

    I'm not to concerned about abuse. His mother was abused by his still step dad, he use to be a reak jerk, broke her jaw once, and when my boyfriend was young there was nothing he could do, he remembers being in harbor houses and stuff growing up. His step dad stopped cold turkey one day. I sometimes think it may be because my boyfriend is bigger than him and he knew if it continued he'd end up beat to a pulp. He hasnt touched the mother again since, but what is her deal for staying with him right?! Makes me sick too.

    I keep putting it in his head the amount of damage they have actually commited here. The fact that he will not be eligable for a loan until this is cleaned out and rebuilt. He will have to keep the vechical he now has, he will never be approved for any loan, no credit cards nothing ever again until this is fixed.

    It leaves him silent when I talk to him sometimes. The other night I went on about how what they have done has really made me look at them differently and I dont think I will EVER look at them the same way again. I told him I do not trust them and do not like them at all right now. I told him it my change but it may not. I basically told him how much I dislike his parents for everything they have done. If he doesnt like that too bad is what I say. I have a right to tell him. If he canthandle me hating it then he can leave me. Im putting up with it just like he is...

     
    Old 10-02-2005, 08:48 PM   #11
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Hi Piranna,

    I am so happy to hear that his stepmom and dad are on your side! That's really great news and definitely bodes well for your future together. I completely understand why you don't like his mom and stepdad at all and don't blame you one bit, but it's tough not to get along with any of your man's family, so the fact that you have allies on the other side of his family will hopefully help a lot. It's wonderful that his stepmom is willing to help youout with the wedding and also with a loan...I wonder if perhaps it wouldn't make sense to put it in your name alone since you have much much better credit than your fiance these days? Anyway, I wish you all the best and have no doubt that you will come out just fine no matter what happens. I have a feeling that everything will turn out for the best, and I admire you for being so honest with your guy about your feelings--that kind of open communication is very important. It's unfortunate that his mom and stepdad are so unlikable, but you guys wouldn't be the first couple who marries when one partner isn't fond of some of the other's family. I don't think it has to be a deal breaker unless your boyfriend allows his mom to scheme her way in between you and cause trouble...as long as you are his main priority and you two present a consistently united front, there's no way she can succeed in her objective of splitting you up. What a disturbed, miserable woman, to have no shame about stealing from her sons and then doing everything in her power to sabotage their relationships so she won't lose her position as the most important woman in their lives. It reminds me of my ex's dad and grandmother, who I really think saw me as competition for his love and devotion and were willing to stoop to any level to destroy our relationship . How can people be so cruel and selfish towards those relatives who they are supposed to love and support most? It makes me so sad to think that people like this have no problem sabotaging their children's happiness in order to fulfill their own selfish, sick need not to lose control over them even after the kids become adults and try to form healthy, independent lives and relationships. I just really hope that your fiance's mother and whatever other family members are causing you problems don't succeed in coming between you and forcing him to choose sides or else making you so frustrated and fed up that you can't take being with him anymore. My ex's family succeeded in accomplishing a combination of both and I really despise them for that to this day. You are a sweet girl who deserves nothing but the best, and I fervently hope that you and your guy are able to stick together and overcome any obstacles his family places in the way of your long, happy life together. Good luck and take care!

     
    Old 10-03-2005, 03:48 AM   #12
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Thanks stacy.

    I never use to have any issues with his parents, but once I heard of this and how bad they made it (they didnt tell him until letters about going to court came) I went into shock and couldnt (still dont) understand how a parent does this to a child. No matter what age you know!

    Ever since then I have stayed on the out with them. My fiance knows if I say anything that it will just make things worse for him, I know telling them to get rid of some of the junk they have wont work or fly well.

    I am thrilled that his step mom wants to help us. She is one that knows how important it is to have good credit so she wants to help us asap. She even offered to fly here and get us set up. My fiance wasnt too happy when he first heard, he didnt want his dad to know or worry about any of this, and I guess it really upset him to find out how bad it had gotten. And Im sure he feels bad because he told me she (fiances mom) use to be this way when they were married. It's a shame he couldnt warn them, but he probably didnt expect her to do this either.

    My fiance is already dreading his own mother finding out (he gets along great with the step mom and all)because she will look at it as "they won again" I told him last night, "who cares? If they cant or wont help us we need what we can get and if your step mom is willing to help us get you out of debt and get your credit building, which we need then god lets do it!!"

    He always wants people to assume everything is under control, he didnt want to worry his dad about the debt and he doesnt want to hurt his mom feelings by telling his dad and step mom. Now he's worried about how mad she will be, i just keep re-assuring him that she has no business being mad since she isnt doing her part here.

    We talked with my parents about it last night for the first time the 4 of us. My dad gave him some advice and told him to not be ashamed or worried about talking with them about it because my parents have gone through times of debt. But never to the point of no return like his parents.

     
    Old 10-05-2005, 04:15 AM   #13
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Hmmm...that worries me that he's still focused on his mom's feelings and his own pride rather than realizing that he should be incredibly thankful and feel very fortunate for this help. I would have liked to see him react pretty much the opposite way than he did in terms of how it bodes for his future ability and willingness to put your relationship ahead of and separate from his parents. I really do hope everything works out for you, but I'm still concerned that this might not be the right guy, or the right timing, as I'm worried that he might not be old enough or mature enough for marriage. How have things gone over the last few days? I really feel for you; I know how awful it is to have your man's family meddling in and deliberately trying to sabotage your life together just to "win" and get him back all to themselves. It's awful mainly because they always seem to win, but I hope your bf proves strong and mature enough to choose a healthy relationship and his future rather than keep being his mom's acquiescing victim. Either way, I know you will be okay, as you're tough and smart . Best wishes and good luck...Stacy

     
    Old 10-05-2005, 06:32 PM   #14
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    Well he is going to speak to his step mom and dad this weekend about what help they have to offer for the debt along with wedding help that they offered.

    He hasnt mentioned it to his mom yet that I know of. I'm hoping he has and I hope he had enough gull to tell her "at least she is willing to help'' I know his mother is just going to be ticked to all hell that this happened that she found out, because I dont think she likes there step mom knowing what she has done and how lazy she really is you know?

    I still want to sit down with them so I can get some things off of my chest. I asked my fiancee if he ran it by his mom about coming dress shopping next month and she said she'd like to go. He then told me I should talk to her so she doesnt think i hate her. I told him I wont do that, I dont want to try and make her think I dont hate here because I am so discusted with her that I dont think I can tell her I am "okay" with everything. So I'd rather just go on acting like it doesnt bother me as much as it truely does until we both sit down and speak to her. That and I dont want it to be too weird for his mom to be around when im dress shopping either.

    I do think he is mature enough for marriage, since about two months into dating he would tell me I was going to be the girl he'd spend the rest of his life with and marry. So It was bound to happen. He's just the type of that that doesnt want to 'hurt' people even the ones that are close to him that have done wrong to him.

    It is his mother he cannot get past that but he just doesnt want to believe that she doesnt care about what she has done to him. I think it may take more then this for him to really open his eyes and get the junk out of them to see she is truely a bad influence and no good for him...

     
    Old 10-05-2005, 06:54 PM   #15
    Ruth6:11
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    Re: the never ending debt issue from his parents!

    It doesn't honestly matter whether she is "no good and a bad influence". She is his mother and she will always be.
    I am concerned that your intense hatred/disgust towards his parents is turning inward and affecting the wonderful person that you were when he fell in love with you.
    (Although the guy that met me and said I was the one he was going to marry - was wrong)
    I hear such bitterness - surely you know that this is eating at you, not at them.

    You are looking at a lifetime of conflict from where you sit right now.

    I understand that the stepmom wants to help.
    I understand why you and he are going to accept that help.
    Part of me believes that the TWO of you should find a way to work this out on your own.
    Once again - I do understand it's easier and reaches your goal sooner.

    Can you understand why I read your posts and almost cringe at the hatred/dislike?
    Take a look at them again... Is this who you want to be? I don't think so!

     
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