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    Old 05-03-2006, 01:36 PM   #61
    Mr.G
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    I dont see women as a sex object, and I understand the STD thing...i actualy had a scare once. I have not had sex for 4 months now because of that. Anyhow it is something with that challenge...I actually despise the fact that these girls I become attracted too sleep with other men. I want to win them over I guess. I just am attarcted to the wrong types of girls and I dont know why. I think it has something to do with the fact that I was hurt badly by the type in the past and I am trying to prove that I can win them or something? I dont know, I am bit crazy. I am concsciously trying to gear myself to be try out things with other girls. I keep find myself attracted to the same type though. WEll I gotta get off these boards.

     
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    Old 05-03-2006, 01:59 PM   #62
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mcgunther
    I dont see women as a sex object, and I understand the STD thing...i actualy had a scare once. I have not had sex for 4 months now because of that. Anyhow it is something with that challenge...I actually despise the fact that these girls I become attracted too sleep with other men. I want to win them over I guess. I just am attarcted to the wrong types of girls and I dont know why. I think it has something to do with the fact that I was hurt badly by the type in the past and I am trying to prove that I can win them or something? I dont know, I am bit crazy. I am concsciously trying to gear myself to be try out things with other girls. I keep find myself attracted to the same type though. WEll I gotta get off these boards.
    LOL, yeah, I constantly find myself ending up with the same type of men, too, even though they might look differently. It's just so weird.

     
    Old 05-13-2006, 09:28 AM   #63
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Wow, sorry some people got so worked up here. I know cheating is a touchy subject and that a lot of men hate women who like sex for sex's sake...I think men hope women don't like it sometimes because then they figure, why would she cheat if she wasn't after sexual gratification? But anyway, I would just like to say for the record that I don't feel guilty for cheating on some of my exes...to be honest they weren't right for me at all and it wouldn't have gotten us anywhere if I stayed loyal and faithful by their sides. With the ones who were kind to me, I do feel badly for treating them hurtfully, but I can't really say I regret anything, because I think in the end, everything worked out for the best. Cheating is wrong and hurtful, and I have learned not to do it...it's much better to be honest rather than deceive someone behind their backs. That said, if a relationship isn't right and won't last, then in my view, whatever happens to hasten its demise is ultimately in the best interest of both parties. Also for the record, I never said I had a personality disorder, just that when looking through the descriptions in reference to another thread, a few of the characteristics of antisocial personality disorder seemed familiar. I think many people would find they have some symptoms of one or another personality disorder were they to read through the DSM, as Mcgunther pointed out.

    Thanks to him, Eve, Sophia, Hiya, and all the other posters here who take the time to get to know people before passing judgment...that is what makes these boards great as well as popular. There are always hysterical people who fly off the handle at the slightest provocation but it takes someone wise to understand the full complexity behind an issue or person. I certainly don't think I'm a wonderful human being or any kind of role model or anything but I also don't think I'm a bad person in that I do what I can to avoid hurting, deceiving, or betraying the people in my life. I didn't like cheating on people or anything, I just wanted something different and wasn't ready to be tied down. Now I know not to make promises I can't keep and not to hurt people with dishonesty and not telling the truth (though I still need your help on this most recent situation, if you guys don't mind, as the wise posters here have always given me great advice...). I'm not the kind of good girl who falls in love easily and wants nothing more than to settle down with one guy, that's for sure, but Hiya is right that women like this are often lonely and disappointed. To me, it seems like a guy needs to win me over and really deserve my loyalty before I should give up my single life for him...I'm not going to do this for just any guy and certainly not right away until a man has proven himself to be the kind of partner I want. I'm not opposed to monogamy, I just need it to be a really enticing situation before I'll submit to it. Which brings me to my reason for resurrecting this thread, which I think I'll put in another post. Anyway, thanks for all your input and support as always!

     
    Old 05-13-2006, 09:54 AM   #64
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mcgunther
    no I wouldnt consider that healthy. But of course I have a hard time knowing what is healthy. It seems like I always stuck between what I think I want and what I actually want. I guess when I mean good girl...I mean the type that doesnt cheat, and I guess that is it. I love every other quality that the party girl/vixen type displays. They usually are too into guys though. I think I am a man with a mind like a female.
    Mcgunther, for what it's worth, I think there are girls of the type you find attractive who can and will be loyal/faithful/honest when they come across a special man they truly care for. I also had to reply to this because I've been spending a lot of time with my old friends (mostly male) lately, and whenever we talk about dating, they always tell me that I am a man stuck in the body of a sweet, innocent looking little blonde girl. Oh boy, if anyone who knows me sees that, there will no longer be any doubt in their minds as to who I am, but oh well. I've never really held back from being honest about what I do when it comes to this stuff, so who cares, anyway, sorry. But like you said mcgunther, that characterization of me as a woman with a man's mind holds true in many ways and accounts for a lot of my inner turmoil when it comes to things like talking about commitment and my feelings . That's probably also why I love men so much, both as friends and more than friends.

    So, update-wise, I still haven't gotten up the nerve to bring up any of this stuff to the guy I mentioned earlier, who I will call J (he actually has the same name as the last boyfriend J who I referenced here last year for those of you with amazing memories). However, I think Hiya was right that he assumed that not bringing up exclusivity didn't mean we weren't exclusive, just the opposite in fact. He really seems to be thinking and acting like he's my boyfriend, and while a month ago I would have resisted that, I have to say now that it makes me pretty happy deep down. I like him A LOT--he's gorgeous, one of the best two or three lovers I've ever had (and yes there have been a lot, part of why I like to sleep with guys is to weed out the ones who don't do it for me sexually), very smart, perhaps smarter than me, which turns me on a lot, and he's also sweet and upfront and has his own life. Since I am often stubborn and difficult, I like that he's easygoing but not willing to let me walk all over him...in fact, I find myself wanting to be a nicer, more upstanding, and sweeter person when I'm around him.

    As far as the exclusivity thing is concerned, I still don't really know what to do. I feel like I should have brought it up months ago if I was going to bring it up at all. In fact, thinking back, he did say something early on about birth control that made me think he saw us as exclusive nearly from the beginning. I also don't think he'd want me around him and his friends if he was dating other women...from what I've overheard, his close friends all know about me and seem to consider me his girlfriend. And he's super busy, but he always answers when I call or calls me right back...I think he might really like me like I like him, and that makes me okay with being his girlfriend. We actually talked a lot while I was gone the past week, and he apologized for being out of touch while he was swamped with finals and everything. He even wanted me to come by as soon as I got home, even though it was after 2 am and he had some college friends crashing at his house. I was excited to see him and he was really sweet, he wanted to hold me really close the whole night while we slept. I was pleased that he made time for me and my schedule right away, especially because this weekend is crazy for him...he has his friends there because they're all in a wedding and his family in town because he's graduating from grad school. Plus, he's moving to my hometown, and he knew before he decided to accept that job that I'd be living there too...so all in all, I feel a lot more confident in the whole thing than I felt before I left, when I posted the rest of this thread. I don't really want to date other guys, so I don't want to bring that up, though I think I will bring up the birth control thing he mentioned awhile back and gauge whether I'm right in my assessment of his thinking about us. I'm still not crazy about the idea of giving up all other men, but I think I probably should, as otherwise I would feel guilty and deceptive...so I will see where this goes.

    Do you guys think I should just take down my dating site profile altogether? I guess part of me wants to be positive he's serious before I make those kind of sacrifices, but I do know it's not right to date other guys without letting him know. What should I do about the other guys I was seeing? Should I just disappear or should I tell them I only want to be friends now? Also, should I be nicer and more easy-going with J now than I have been in the past? It's tricky because I feel like part of what makes guys, him included, like me is that I am very tough to win over and I have really high standards for how they should treat me. I don't hesitate to disclose when I am unhappy with something but sometimes I take that too far and feel badly afterwards for giving someone a hard time...so do you guys think I should apologize or just try not to be so impatient and difficult?

    Wow, I have really missed being able to get advice here...Eve, especially if you are reading, I'd love to hear your input, because you seem to have truly understood where I was coming from on this monogamy stuff all along. Also, I really appreciate friends like Hiya and Sophia being so understanding as well...it takes a lot of compassion and intellect to put yourself in someone else's shoes when that person's nature probably strikes you as quite odd. Oh well, I am nothing if not peculiar, and I don't mind that, I'd just like to be the best Stacy I can be, and sometimes I need help to see how to best treat others.

    Last edited by Veronica_Mars; 05-13-2006 at 09:58 AM.

     
    Old 05-13-2006, 10:59 AM   #65
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Well sweety, you sound like a girl in love.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    However, I think Hiya was right that he assumed that not bringing up exclusivity didn't mean we weren't exclusive, just the opposite in fact. He really seems to be thinking and acting like he's my boyfriend, and while a month ago I would have resisted that, I have to say now that it makes me pretty happy deep down. I like him A LOT--he's gorgeous, one of the best two or three lovers I've ever had (and yes there have been a lot, part of why I like to sleep with guys is to weed out the ones who don't do it for me sexually), very smart, perhaps smarter than me, which turns me on a lot, and he's also sweet and upfront and has his own life. Since I am often stubborn and difficult, I like that he's easygoing but not willing to let me walk all over him...in fact, I find myself wanting to be a nicer, more upstanding, and sweeter person when I'm around him.
    Everything a strong woman wants in a man. What is the harm in staying with him a while and seeing where this goes? You, becoming exclusive does put your heart at risk, but sometimes the most rewarding things are risky.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    As far as the exclusivity thing is concerned, I still don't really know what to do. I feel like I should have brought it up months ago if I was going to bring it up at all. In fact, thinking back, he did say something early on about birth control that made me think he saw us as exclusive nearly from the beginning. I also don't think he'd want me around him and his friends if he was dating other women...from what I've overheard, his close friends all know about me and seem to consider me his girlfriend. And he's super busy, but he always answers when I call or calls me right back...I think he might really like me like I like him, and that makes me okay with being his girlfriend.
    I don't think you really need to talk to him to make a decision, for yourself, about becoming exclusive. You can choose to do it. Although, as great as he seems, I'd still want to know he wasn't seeing anyone else as well.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    Plus, he's moving to my hometown, and he knew before he decided to accept that job that I'd be living there too...so all in all, I feel a lot more confident in the whole thing than I felt before I left, when I posted the rest of this thread. I don't really want to date other guys, so I don't want to bring that up, though I think I will bring up the birth control thing he mentioned awhile back and gauge whether I'm right in my assessment of his thinking about us.
    He should have brought up birth control, isn't he a doctor, or studying to be one? I'm glad you are both thinking of this, but was he asking if you are already on it or if you are going on it? I mean, didn't he consider the possibility that you may already be sexually active? Perhaps that was his way of asking if you were seeing other men now?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    I'm still not crazy about the idea of giving up all other men, but I think I probably should, as otherwise I would feel guilty and deceptive...so I will see where this goes.
    Exclusive means exclusive. But, you know this.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    Do you guys think I should just take down my dating site profile altogether? I guess part of me wants to be positive he's serious before I make those kind of sacrifices, but I do know it's not right to date other guys without letting him know. What should I do about the other guys I was seeing? Should I just disappear or should I tell them I only want to be friends now?
    You can hide your site, make it not searchable, until you are sure that you are ready to stop looking. That way you won't get any new responses. Any men that you are now chatting with and haven't met can get a nice note that you've met someone really wonderful and you want to give that relationship your best shot right now. The men you are seeing, and sleeping with.........well, that's a little bit harder. These relationships are what they are. Now you are trying to change the deal well into them. You will certainly find out which ones are truly your friends and which ones aren't. But that is a good thing to know. The point is, if you decide you want to be exclusive with your J, you will have to bite the bullet and tell these other men. Disappearing is a little girls way out. If you are old enough to sleep with them, you're old enough to end it with them, decently and responsibly. It's ok, you can handle it, this is part of living life the way you chose it. Living with this kind of freedom can be responsible or irresponsible, men running away without a word is exactly the kind of irresponsible behavior that sends so many women to this board, what would you say, of a man, who behaves that way?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    Also, should I be nicer and more easy-going with J now than I have been in the past? It's tricky because I feel like part of what makes guys, him included, like me is that I am very tough to win over and I have really high standards for how they should treat me. I don't hesitate to disclose when I am unhappy with something but sometimes I take that too far and feel badly afterwards for giving someone a hard time...so do you guys think I should apologize or just try not to be so impatient and difficult?
    I think it's perfectly acceptable to keep your standards high and maintain a life for yourself. These things do attract a man. But, I think a man also needs to know that a woman will accept him for what he is and he needs to know that you stand in his corner. Your softer feelings are evolving, as I think they should. Does that mean you will become a doormat? Of course not. Loving feelings and actions are different then doormat feelings and actions. Doormat feelings are about denial of self and self-needs. As long as you don't give to your own detriment, you can give honestly. Either way, at some point those softer, accepting and loving feeling are necessary to build the bonds I think you are hoping for. Neither of you should be forever walking on egg shells around the other. A relationship, with that much tension, can't last. At some point you need to take the chance of showing him your feelings, but I'd wait until he shows his first. Let him use the L word, when he's comfortable with it, first.
    Wow, an exciting and scary time for you, but it sounds like it might be worth the trouble. Keep us posted on how things are going.
    Eve

    Last edited by eve40; 05-13-2006 at 11:34 AM.

     
    Old 05-13-2006, 11:25 AM   #66
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Wow, Eve said everything so beautifully that I don't really know what I could add. I agree with what she said 100% so there's no need to repeat it. I'm happy for you, Stacy, it seems like whatever you've been doing is working, and that you have a great guy on your hands. Yeah, I think taking a risk and letting this relationship develop might be well worth it. It's the quality, and not the quanitity that counts, after all. Good luck, Stacy, and let us know how things go with J

     
    Old 05-13-2006, 04:01 PM   #67
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Oh my gosh you guys are awesome, that was the best advice ever. I really think you are both right about everything and I'm feeling more and more like I know what to do for now. Part of me wants to know everything right away and for everything I want to happen right now, but I know that's not possible or probably even desirable. I really like people who (like my friends here ) bring out the best in me, and J definitely does so...in fact he is a lot more mature and responsible than I am in some ways, but then again, he's four years older and therefore had a head start. But it's good for me to be around people who are smart, driven, and successful rather than some of the slacker loser partiers I've hung out with, especially some of the guys I'm attracted to. Fortunately, none of the guys I've slept with recently is expecting anything from me in terms of dating or future hookups...they understand that I'm not the kind of girl that wants to be their girlfriend. But I am really happy to discover that I might not mind being SOME guy's girlfriend, as long as he doesn't pressure me into it, and as long as he's worth it. I don't know if I mentioned this, but the first or second time I hung out with J, he asked why I didn't have a boyfriend, and I told him in no uncertain terms that it was because I didn't want one. I think he kind of intuitively understands that I'm stubborn and rebellious in some ways and that it's best to use a gentle touch when it comes to things like commitment.

    But there have been little things that have happened over the last few months that make me think he was assuming we were exclusive, one of them being the birth control thing, which in context, I took as him asking if I was sleeping with anyone else. Being me, I dodged the question completely and instead started blabbering about birth control...I just left it that we should use condoms. But in serious monogamous relationships, I'm not always such a fascist about that...it can get really expensive and inconvenient. Anyway yeah, I'm not going to sleep with anyone else for the time being and I haven't been on an ongoing basis recently...the other guys I've been dating deserve some sort of explanation, but fortunately I don't have to abruptly stop sleeping with them. As far as birth control goes, for now I think it's best to be doubly cautious. For whatever reason, I always end up with guys who get really into birth control and go to planned parenthood with me and everything, which I don't understand, but if they are willing to chip in, I think that's only fair. But maybe I'll fill him in on that, which would be a roundabout way of saying ok, we'll just sleep with each other.

    And Eve, I especially agree with the last part of your post, about being nice but not a doormat. My tendency is definitely to swing more towards being too sarcastic and mean rather than towards being too docile and accepting, so I need to make an effort to be more patient and nice. Actually, I made a baby step towards being a nicer me today; I had been really tough on J and just kind of generally snippy and I apologized. That might not seem like much, but for me, it's a big deal to admit I'm wrong and say sorry, as I don't like to concede power at all. I figure that if I like and trust someone it's ok though, even though I don't really like it and I definitely don't want to be hurt, as long as I don't relinquish more than 49% of the power, right? I wouldn't necessarily say that I love him now, but I do have genuine affection and respect for him, and I like him a lot, so you never know...one thing is for sure, I have NEVER and will NEVER be the one who says i love you first!!! You might as well just chop me up into little pieces.

    Last edited by Veronica_Mars; 05-13-2006 at 04:07 PM.

     
    Old 05-13-2006, 04:14 PM   #68
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    But maybe I'll fill him in on that, which would be a roundabout way of saying ok, we'll just sleep with each other.
    Never assume men "get" subtlety. They don't.

     
    Old 05-13-2006, 04:50 PM   #69
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    VM- I wish I could be more like you, you'll have to give me some tips

    Seriously, it sounds as though this guy has a hold on you and you aren't used to that, but I would go with it- it seems to be he is different than the others. So thats a good thing. I would continue doing what you've been doing, in that you aren't too 'forthcoming' with how you feel, but I wouldn't keep remaining so amiguous that you frustrate him or push him away. I try to be like you, but I always end up eing that 'good girl' you mentioned that is a hopeless romantic and ends up getting hurt and feeling lonely. Sigh. So maybe I can learn from you. It sounds like this guy is wrapped around your finger a bit and that you feel for him as well, so...?
    I think one thing that is good that you have recognized is just about being honest. I think as long as you are somewhat clear about your intentions, then that is the best you can do. Like you said, you've learned that if you don't feel right about someone, its better to let them know than to cheat on them. If you're already feeling that you don't want to date other guys, than thats a good sign, but don't NOT date other guys just because you feel you shouldnt.

     
    Old 05-14-2006, 01:30 PM   #70
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Thank you citygirl, that was really good advice that made a lot of sense. I think that I sabotage myself by overthinking things sometimes (I know that plagues me in golf anyway) and not being nicer and more patient. Unfortunately I really think that deep down I'm not a good girl at all, all my instincts and vices and everything are what society considers bad. I just can't help it, I know I should talk to J (now I really don't want to use his whole name confessing this stuff) and be all nice and amenable but I'm just not sure it's in me to be that way. Maybe some people are just difficult and stubborn and tough to pin down. Because I like this guy and I want to do the right thing and all, but a big part of me resists doing two things i probably need to do: stop any non-platonic involvement with other men and talk to him about this stuff to get it out in the open. But I hate those things! I don't know how I'm going to deal with them, I want them just to be resolved on their own without any conversation. Like, how in the world am I supposed to mention anything that could imply I don't consider us exclusive, because then he'll logically ask me that question, and I know I'll crumble under the pressure. Yuck, I hate this stuff, and I hate that I'm worried about it. I think maybe I should leave him alone until I figure out what I'm going to do/say? I have to run but I'll write back to you on your thread later, CG, I've been meaning to. Happy mother's day everyone.

     
    Old 05-14-2006, 04:16 PM   #71
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Veronica_Mars
    Because I like this guy and I want to do the right thing and all, but a big part of me resists doing two things i probably need to do: stop any non-platonic involvement with other men and talk to him about this stuff to get it out in the open. But I hate those things! I don't know how I'm going to deal with them, I want them just to be resolved on their own without any conversation.
    Well, I'm like you in that regard, if that makes you feel any better, Stacy. I loathe discussing the status of a new relationship--loathe it! I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned, but I never really had to do it, so to me it's just strange. I mean, you ARE exclusive with him, right? If I understood correctly, you've only been seeing and being intimate with him for some time now, and he seems to only be seeing you as well. I don't see the need for a formal discussion then. You said you don't have any intentions to be dating other guys at this time, and you're planning to tell the others that you can't go out with them anymore. So, what's wrong with that? Seems good enough to me.

     
    Old 05-14-2006, 04:54 PM   #72
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SophiaM
    If I understood correctly, you've only been seeing and being intimate with him for some time now, and he seems to only be seeing you as well. I don't see the need for a formal discussion then. You said you don't have any intentions to be dating other guys at this time, and you're planning to tell the others that you can't go out with them anymore. So, what's wrong with that? Seems good enough to me.
    I totally agree. No point in spilling your guts, and history, all over the floor. Besides, I don't think most men want to know our history unless they ask, certainly not early in the relationship. So, don't bring it up unsolicited. If he asks you'll know he wants to know, at which point you can ask some questions of your own, if you have them. Relax Stacy, you're doing just fine here. As far as other guys we all, men and women, give up certain things to be part of a couple. Conventional wisdom has it that you get a return, in love, for what you give up to be a couple.

     
    Old 05-14-2006, 06:32 PM   #73
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Yes, I agree. I really think you are right and intellectually I understand why I should be nice and patient. But here is the problem: there is a little mini Stacy with devil's ears sitting on my shoulder telling me bad things. For instance, now that I guess I've decided to be exclusive with this guy, every little thing I don't like drives me nuts and makes me think I shouldn't be so quick to give up on other men. It's like, well I'm not seeing X tonight, why not call up Y? And another evil part of me wants to be like, hey, if you're not going to do what I want, I'm going to date other guys who will. At what point is that just absurd and non-productive? What is wrong with me that I have no patience and no trust? Why do I always worry too much and assume the worst? I have no idea, but it is really bothering me lately. I really wish I could just be sweet and calm and patient and not get all mad all the time when things don't happen just the way I think they should. I guess it's all about learning to be more mature and less selfish, right? Or maybe I should be really hard on guys to make sure they are worth it? I just don't know where the right balance is between being kind/understanding and standing up for myself/demanding to be treated well. I also think that I make a big mistake with some guys in letting them know how to drive me nuts (not doing everything I want) which gives them power over me, which I do not like one little bit. Do you guys think I'm just totally neurotic and need to relax?

     
    Old 05-15-2006, 03:41 PM   #74
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    Update:

    So I think I'm just crazy. Either that or very impatient, indecisive, and really stubbornly independent. I don't know why I keep oscillating between thinking, awww, I really like this guy and then thinking whatever i don't need this and getting ticked off when he doesn't do exactly what i'd like at a given moment. I know the second extreme is ridiculous, but I still keep going there. Anyway, I was all irritated yesterday but today I went back on my old birth control, hooray, and we've talked on and off all day. So I guess things are fine, I still think I need to interrogate him about some stuff, but for the time being I'm trying to be more nice and patient than usual. I will keep you guys posted and thanks again for all your help.

     
    Old 05-15-2006, 05:17 PM   #75
    Mr.G
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    Re: Should I be loyal to this guy?

    you seem insecure and neurotic. Anytime someone feels the need to have power over another diffently screams out insecurity. I mean do you ever feel truely happy even with all the guys? I notice that the happiest gilrs are the ones whom are secure with themselves and dont need 60 guys to reinforce thier self worth. Happiness and self worth steam from within and not externally. There is nothing wrong with sexual varitey...it is all about why you do it though. For self worth or for fun? Well which is it? I have known girls that love to have sex with a lot of guys....but they put all their self worth into how many guys they can manipulate. They typically are not in touch with whom they are as a person and there validation is upon how many guys they can control. Of course many men are the same way with women. They put all of thier self-worth into how many women say yes. Maybe this guy is getting to you and you dont know how to handle it. Maybe he is showing something that no other guy has. I just say don't stress it too much.

    "I really like this guy and then thinking whatever i don't need this and getting ticked off when he doesn't do exactly what i'd like at a given moment."

    It seems like you put way to much pressure on yourself. This is all my opinion however...so take it as you like. I can understand where you are coming from though because I am neurotic myself.

    Last edited by Mr.G; 05-15-2006 at 07:08 PM.

     
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