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    Old 04-03-2007, 03:05 PM   #31
    dfroman1166
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Debbie,
    Hope you post soon-can't wait to hear how your feeling. As far as I go-NAUSEOUS!! BAD!! Almost puking and no appetite. Thats ok I need to lose a few anyway. This is most certainly better than the w/d's so I will stick with it. My doc said to take my next dose later in the day and see how I do on 8mg. rather than the 16mg. Took the 8mg at 3p.m. and feel SICK! Don't need the additional 8mg...YET! I guess this is a good thing..I may get off them faster.

    Hope your doing well today and aren't suffering from this horriable stomache!

    Dee

     
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    Old 04-03-2007, 04:47 PM   #32
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    Lightbulb Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    can i just interject something i heard at my NA meeting the first time i went?
    they said the only requirement for being a member is the DESIRE to stop using.....they didn't say you had to be clean to even be there...only had to truly want to be clean....that took the pressure off me because i was struggling with relapses and felt so guilty and ashamed that i didn't feel like i belonged with these ppl....nothing could have been farther from the truth.

    they all embraced me with open arms and lots of hugs when i finally got the nerve to tell a little of my story...they were a wonderful group of people. i don't know if all groups are exactly the same, but i would think that they are pretty much the same. don't let being on sub stop you from going, you are trying and thats what matters most....you need the support now, not down the road when you're finally off everything.... i love that group, but don't go often enough.....

    i hope this helps some who are struggling with the definition of "clean"

    peace

     
    Old 04-03-2007, 09:16 PM   #33
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Hi guys,


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    I have tried so many things to quit, I turned to sub b/c I kept failing but the one thing that has not failed me is my strong desire and hope to not be addicted to pain pills.

    But let me tell you guys, I do NOT LIKE this sub. I have felt anxious and jittery and aggravated all day. It's like speed without the fun happy part of speed. More like eating a box of No Doz, those caffeine pills, or a bunch of mini thins or something. Just agitated and spacy. I've felt a little worried driving like I realize I'm spaced out and I need to be careful. Caught myself being droopy eyed at my desk. I had a client luncheon today and I was so agitated I took a half a xanax. I took a half of a 8 mg sub today when I got up, then the half a xanax. Felt normal for the first time in days. Then I got SLEEPY. BAD. Even went to my car and layed there with my eyes closed for a while. Took another half of a sub. Felt ok. I think where i screwed up was taking another half of a sub on the way home. That's when I fell apart. I was a total B8tch and so damned aggravated that I even smoked a cig, first time in over 3 months! I thought of Tim and I exercised for quite a while .Trying to get this aggression out. I do not like this. No, I'm not feeling like I did in withdrawal (lethargic, depressed, exhausted, mopey, drained, well you all know) but this is not a picnic either.

    I realize if my doc was more legit he would have mentioned the 12 step stuff and or therapy. I am going to look into that. Besides not trying the sub, that's something I have not tried when I've quit before so I have to at least try it. I'm so sick of failing. I guess I need to keep my sub dose lower. Maybe being clean for 24 hours before I took it brought my tolerance of opiates down. This doesn't really feel like an opiate. Podee, I know you're gearing up a post to tell me it is an opiate... LOL... just having some fun with you now :-), but it sure as heck doesn't feel like an opiate. Just the bad part, like when you've taken way too many hydros to get an energy blast and all you've gotten was the agitated angry nauseous piece of it.

    Sigh. I wish there was a good solution that really fits all. It's scary to hear that John was on sub for 2 years and now that he's off he's craving the pills. Good lord guys, what an evil trick these pills have played on us. What a pit to be in.

    I couldn't sleep for crap last night. How did you do Dee? Arg49/B- how long did these awful feelings last you? If I didn't have such a pathetic history of relapsing I might blow these things off. What Tim says is encouraging that using sub short time is a way to get off the pills without withdrawals. That's good. But I'm scared that if I don't stay on it for at least a while (how long that is, I wish I knew) or I'll be back on pain pills. It's not like this is my first time down the block.

    I love that everyone has chimed in. I really feel like I have so many people who care about me. Even John and Podee, although you are against it all, I still feel like you care or you wouldn't bother posting. So thanks to everyone for your support.

    I am going to just take two half pills tomorrow- one 4 mg morn and 4 mg in the afternoon. This stuff is a lot different and stronger than hydros, it's just weird. I guess the natroxene (sp?) that keeps you from getting high cancels the enjoyment. I wonder if pain pills would have been this miserable if they all had that natroxene stuff. Maybe that's the key to fighting addiciton- if opiates all felt like sub I don't think we would need this board. Well, until it's time to get off of them. (Yes John, I'm listening.)

    Deb

    Last edited by Administrator; 04-06-2007 at 01:21 AM. Reason: removed rude comments

     
    Old 04-03-2007, 10:38 PM   #34
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfroman1166 View Post
    Wow...can't help but feel totally bashed for mentioning the 12 step! Sorry-I don't know anything about it! I was under the impression that it was a tool to quitting not a place to go after you've already quit.
    Maybe I'm being paraniod-but I don't want to be labeled a hypocrite. Can someone explain the program to me so I'm not misunderstood? My ultimate goal here is to quit taking any form of narcotic-period.
    I always feel so supported here-would hate to screw that up!
    Thank you
    Dee
    Dee, sorry perhaps I was a little vague on that subject, any good group will embrace you just for showing up and having a desire to be clean. The group will tell stories of problems their dealing with and their sucesses as well. That being said the natural progression is that by seeing these people living TRULY clean lives, you will want what they have. They usually give out key chain tags for different amounts of clean time, The first day you go you will be given the opportunity to get a desire to be clean tag, next would be 30 days clean, 60 days etc. the problem lies here in; It would be a lie to ever go beyond the desire to be clean stage in your on sub, because u truly have not been clean. Also there are steps involved, 1st admitting to your self and another person that you are an addict. thats easy , right? but as someone on sub, how can you progress past that? Dont get me wrong, if your at a good group they'll embrace you with open arms and explain it all to you, they wont be judgemental, but BE HONEST or else your defeating the whole purpose. If your anything like me taking sub and going, you will want what they have but you will know in your heart that your not ready unless you give up the sub, I wasnt ready to and gradually dropped out, I just cant be a hypocrite. Please go , by all means. You NEED to see it is possibe and NA will show u that, from there its up to you........dont expect to hear what you want to hear though, expect to hear some hard truths you need to hear. If you choose to go...dont sit in the back and run out the door, stay aroud after
    talk to those who share about their sucesses, get a sponsor...its active involvement that really makes that program work, if your like me, I didnt really have any friends left I didnt use with, at very least it is a safe place to meet people with the same problems (some worse some less)but from experience its the only place I ever felt really hopeful of ending the cycle of drugs and **** that my life seemed to focus around, hope this helps. I am always here if you need to talk as well.....I may be blunt, but Ive been there and so have others on this post, sort through and maybe you will find some encouragement....we luv ya. John

     
    Old 04-04-2007, 05:36 AM   #35
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    Cool Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    I can hear say it now, does this guy ever shut up...maybe not! But writing like this is helping me so very much, please bear with, huh? I was rereading this thread and am seeing some of you having difficulties adjusting to sub, unlike ya'll I started on 2mg 4 times daily and progressed to 16mg, but I almost never took 16mg I only needed 8mg to keep me on track so to speak, I also because of chronic back pain took 1000+mg of ibuprofin with sub and it did very well for the pain, but in hindsight was kinda like taking extra ibuprofin with lortabs...it intensified the effect. Look, I was a heavy user before sub, I wasnt just a pill popper, I tended to go with the strongest availiabe opiate I could get my hands on, H being my favorite and working my way down the list of availiability and I was good with only 8mg a day of sub, in my opinion your dr. is prescribing too much. Ive never seen a dr. ****** because someone underused a drug only when they overuse. I took my dose in the morning and it was wearing off by evening but not so much I needed more.
    I didnt have any trouble with appetite, I did have an erratic sleep pattern. Toughtime, you had to have a period without pills before you can go on sub, one thing dr. looks for in new patient is acute withtrawl symptoms/COWS scale. if you take sub too soon you can induce withdrawl symptoms, so usually u must already be in Wd's first. Deb, I hope ive helped in some small way I dont know about podee but I assume hes like me and run the gauntlet, and in his own way honestly wanting to help you....please go to NA see what they have to offer, I dont know your situation but Im from the suburbs and I generally go to meeting (if I go , havent in awhile) I go where there are people I can relate to, inner city ones usually leave me wanting a bath!

    Last edited by moderator2; 04-04-2007 at 05:52 AM.

     
    Old 04-04-2007, 07:05 AM   #36
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    John,
    In no way have I ever meant to be a B8tch. You've been here before and I'm definitly scared about the sub and what it means when I go off. It's just that this is pretty much my last resort-I feel very helpless at this point. I appreciate that you care enough to stress your experiences
    Not sure that I'm ready for the 12 step thing-I certainly don't want to have someone sponsoring me when I'm not even clean...yet! When I'm off the sub then I will seriously consider going- for now it's just therapy. I like blunt....that works for me!
    Debbie! UGH!! I feel like puking SOOO BAD!! 24/7! None of the anxiety your describing-but this is definitley not what I thought. Although,it's better than the alternative. Watch the xanax with the sub-I'm not sure it's a good combo. My doc is great he said that nausea is common but that I seem to have it more so. I'm also down to 8mg's a day. WOW...to think we used to be figuring out ways to take MORE narcotics rather than less...lol. All I can say is this must be some very strong stuff because like you said I feel like I overdid the vicoden...big time! I feel no w/d symptoms though so I will stick to the plan. I do feel a bit better this a.m.. My husband made me eat a big breakfast before taking the stupid, nasty pill. That may have helped.
    Hope your having a better day today. Post tonight and let me know I will read it tommrow a.m.
    Good Luck!
    Dee
    Oh yeah...NO sleep Mon night - very little last night.

    Last edited by dfroman1166; 04-04-2007 at 07:13 AM.

     
    Old 04-04-2007, 12:51 PM   #37
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Deb and Dee, I'm sorry you're having a rough experience with the sub. I felt strange the first day or so and then I felt amazing. I think you both might be taking waaay too much. Try taking half in the am and half in the pm. Sub has a 36 hour half life so you may not feel the effects of decreasing your dose until the next day or so. Also, please call your sub doctors and let them know what's going on. They are the ones that can help you the most. :-) My sub dr gave me his cell number and told me to call him in the middle of the night if I needed. Again, my guess is that you're taking too much. Hope it gets better for you.

     
    Old 04-04-2007, 12:53 PM   #38
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Oh, one last thing. My dr told me that if I got bad headaches and/or nausea that I could be having a reaction to the other ingredient in Sub. He told me to spit out the orange drools after the sub dissolves. I tried this and it worked wonders. lol

     
    Old 04-04-2007, 01:42 PM   #39
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Yes...I've done alot of reading today about sub and we're taking way TOO MUCH Why would my doctor start me on 16 mg. a day - thats a ridiculously large dose! Don't ya'll think? So when I called and told him I thought that it was too much he said "take just 1 tablet a day" 8mg. well thats also way too much. I'm going to take 1/2 pill tommorow and see how I feel.I took the 8 today and still feel like crap. I went on a site that has a message board just for people on sub and this one girl said that 16 mg. a day would have most people puking and sleeping all day. Hmm....no wonder I feel so nauseous.
    Why would he start me out on that dose? Anyone know? I was taking anywhere from 15-20 7.5/700 vics daily for 6 months give or take with a 3 week break in Feb.
    I still think 16 mg. sub is crazy.

    Debbie-bring your dose WAY down and you'll feel better

    Dee

     
    Old 04-04-2007, 09:27 PM   #40
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Wow, thanks for all of the info. And John, please keep posting! I didn't mean to be ugly to you or to Podee. I reread my post and it sounded pretty defensive and rude and I apologize. You were on it 2 years and you are off it now. Sheez, you are the person I need to hear from the most!

    Dee and B, thanks so much for telling me it's too much. I had a feeling it was!
    You guys, my bottle of 8 mg pills says to take 1 or 2 pills twice a day!
    That's up to 32 mg a day!!! Sheez almighty. Today I took a half of a pill this morning and about a quarter at around noon, then another quarter at 5 then prob a third at 7. The last one, once more, was the mistake. I'm all jittery and scattered and stressed and it took over an hour to make dinner and I couldn't eat any of it. I didn't lose my temper though today. I told myself that regardless of my mood swings my sweet little girl doesn't deserve it. I know when I was on hydros I was obviously out of it, but I took them for so many years and for so long I really felt normal. I don't feel normal on these.

    I called my doc first thing this morning and they asked me to come in, after I was an hour away at work. I told them I couldn't and left a message for the nurse telling her about the anxiety and aggravation and inability to sleep. I asked her if she could recommend something for the sleep and/or if I need to change my dose. I am worried about the xanax which is why I haven't taken any today. I think it's valium that can be deadly, not xanax, but it's still scary. I did take a couple of soma just now but I have to get to bed soon. Sheez. The doc never called me back! I called at lunch and they were closed for the day. After I got home I checked the home answering machine and they had left me a message. When I clearly gave them my cell phone number in the vm I left them. Their message mentioned coming in. This guy just wants my money and I think he's putting me on such a high dose to get me hooked. The only reason I went to him was b/c he had my medical records from my back probs, he's very close to where I live (5 min away), he's not a regular sub doc so he's a heck of a lot cheaper and doesn't require that I come in every day for the first week then once a week, like most of the docs I called. But still, he is a pill pusher. You should have seen all of the people in his waiting room, filling out their pain agreements. All there to score pills!

    Also, when my doc was telling me how to take the sub he told me to keep taking them until I stop feeling nervous and edgy. He said I should wait every 2 hours and take a pill until I felt normal. He acted like taking more would fix that, but I assume that he figured hydrocodone relaxed me and being off of it was making me fidget, like when someone is coming off benzos. It was the opposite to me, they gave me energy. So taking more and more opiate to "take the edge off" doesn't add up at all to me.

    This is probably shady on my part but I think I am going to tell him I am taking 2-3 a day and get him to give me a larger script. I'm thinking about changing jobs which means I won't have insurance right away so I won't be able to afford these, plus if I just have them then I won't have to come see him every month for a refill.

    As I write this I'm noticing the pill seeking behavior. Part of me is thinking of just blowing this off but I do think it's the dose that's messed up. My eyes have been like pin points and they were never that bad when I was on hydros. I probably took 17 norco 10s a day. I think the correct dose is probably 8 mg but I'll admit that I took another piece of one after work for the energy blast. Which concerns me. You don't really get high off of these but you do when you're taking way too much. I just want to feel normal, not have the crazy mood swings, be able to sleep and breakthru my addiction to pain pills.

    The way I see the suboxone is it's like when I quit smoking and used the nicotine patch. I've quit pain pills, but the habit of taking and procuring the pills was such a major part of it that I'm breaking that without going thru the physical withdrawals at the same time. The suboxone, to me, is like the nicotine gum or a patch. It's a bridge to get clean and yes it has some opiate in it but not the level I was taking. Well, sheez- not the kind I was taking. This stuff might be 1 mg sub= 50 mg hydro for all I know. It seems very strong.

    Oh my gosh I can't believe it's so late. I have to get up in 6 hours. Thanks for all of your posts. Sorry I just post once late at night and it's a novel. LOL.
    Dee, Arg and John- thanks to all of you for letting me know that I'm taking too much. It feels like all of the bad effects of taking too much hydro. Dee, I've been taking prilosec and it seems to help with the nausea. I'm also eating around the clock to keep something in my stomach to keep from feeling sick.

    Good night everyone. I'll try to post earlier tomorrow.

    deb

     
    Old 04-05-2007, 06:37 PM   #41
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Feel better today-on 4mg am 4mg pm. Deb-sorry but you doc sound like a quack! "take a pill till every 2 hrs till you feel normal"! WHAT??? Sorry hun-find another doc but like you said- stock up first.
    I feel acually normal this evening. I belive we needed to get used to the sub. My new therapist told me that 8-16 mg is the way it's dosed in the PDR. Yes...keeping food in my stomach has made a big difference.
    I don't get really high off these either but don't crave the high at all! This stuff may be working! YAY!
    Hope your feeling better today Debbie! I'm away til after Easter so may not be able to post! Will check on things when I get home on Tues.

    Happy Easter/Passover!
    Dee

    Last edited by dfroman1166; 04-05-2007 at 06:40 PM.

     
    Old 04-05-2007, 08:28 PM   #42
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Hey Dee!

    Glad you're feeling better. Me too I guess. I called my doc and at first he told me to take more. He said just coming off of the opiates would make me agitated and bitc&y. But I told him that I've quit before and I get lethargic and depressed and withdrawn. At first he thought I should increase my dose but after I said that he told me to cut my dose. He prescribed me some xanax for the anxiety and inability to sleep. Now I don't have to be scared about mixing those. I guess it's ok. I know that I'll get posts warning me about xanax and that's fine. I've heard it's a nightmare to come off of. But I still have some xanax from my bottle I got in the early nineties so this is not my DOC. But I'll be careful anyway. I haven't craved pain pills either but I did take a little more sub than I should have today. It's been a long long busy week. I'm tired and going to bed. Will post this weekend. I feel like this doc cares. I know he's a bit shady but I think he wants me to feel good and get off pain pills yet not be in a bunch of pain, and that's what I want too so maybe this will work out.
    Happy friday everyone!

    Deb

     
    Old 04-05-2007, 10:06 PM   #43
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Hi Toughtime
    Yes, you got it right, it is a nightmare, only when you decide you have had enough, it turns into your dream. Not the medicated la la dream!! your dream, what you want, what you cherish. I hope you get off the

    deleted

    wheel soon.
    kadee

    Last edited by Administrator; 04-06-2007 at 01:27 AM. Reason: NO CUSSING.

     
    Old 04-05-2007, 10:25 PM   #44
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    Re: Starting suboxone tomorrow

    Thanks deb for inviting me back, your right, after your post before last, I was concerned that I may be hurting not helping and was gonna withdraw, from this thread. I want you guys to know where I am now, I am on day 7, and I feel almost myself again...so close maybe I am. I am really, really worried about relapse though. Right now im still out here on the deep blue sea, and have no access, but 3 weeks when I go home....??????. I will go to a meeting as fast as I can. I dont mean to hammer the meetings, but seriously, It is so cool to see others like us ( in various stages of their sobriety, and some none) all together and all with a common goal, ridding ourselves of the insanity, adddiction brings with it.
    I am really kinda trippin on ya'll dr's especially yours deb, take more til you feel better? whats that all about. I think I already said that mine was just the opposite, he wanted me on less constantly, he fought me on trying to get over the 8 mg a day, he did give in at my insistance, and the reason I did was to stockpile a little like u said...theres that seeking behavior. The next thing is a question, are any of your dr's actually prescribing a benzodiazopine, like xanax, valium, etc? Mine would never, ever do that. He did give me something called trazadone, and it acts just like a benzo, although not one actually I dont believe. My dr. I dont believe would EVER prescribe for me a drug that would be or could be habit forming..like the benzos are. Thanks all of you for listening to me, its been and still is a constant source of inspiration to talk to others battling the same problems.. Podee, youve gotten quiet, whats your take on all this? John
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