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    Old 04-19-2007, 05:08 PM   #16
    jules3
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    penny, im pretty sure what it does is block a receptor,,so that if you take opiates while you are on it,you will not get high. in my humble opinion it is for short term use to help you get over the withdrawels during a detox. thats it..no longer than a week or 2.

     
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    Old 04-20-2007, 09:24 AM   #17
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    A person who is cold sober who takes buprenorphine, the active ingredient in suboxone, gets so high he will throw up.

    The reason an addict already addicted to a strong opiate such as heroin does not feel a high from suboxone (or thinks he does not feel a high) is because of this pre-existing high tolerance to opiates.

    An addict on heroin for many years gets about as high with his usual dose as I would injecting plain water. He just shoots to stave off withdrawal. Once a tolerance is built up, the only way to get high is to increase the dose. The same applies to suboxone.

    Penny, the way suboxone "works" is it simply substitutes a pharmaceutical opiate for a street or illicitly obtained other one, like heroin or oxycodone (oxycontin). It is meant as an approximately two week detox to get off street or illicit drugs. People sometimes take suboxone as maintenance, which is no solution at all to getting off opiates because suboxone is an opiate.

     
    Old 04-20-2007, 09:29 AM   #18
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jules3 View Post
    penny, im pretty sure what it does is block a receptor,,so that if you take opiates while you are on it,you will not get high. in my humble opinion it is for short term use to help you get over the withdrawels during a detox. thats it..no longer than a week or 2.
    Suboxone/subutex does not block any receptors. However, since it is an opiate it does compete for the same receptors that other opiates want to bind to. In this way sub is an opiate antagonist because it binds very strongly to receptors and may not allow some other opiates to bind on there.

    Doctors advise people on suboxone not to take other opiates because there might be a reaction, such as headache, but many addicts take both suboxone and other opiates anyway and report getting high just like before.

     
    Old 04-20-2007, 01:12 PM   #19
    jules3
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    podee, soryy i am not as informed as you are..but i am trying my hardest to gain all the knowledge i can..i pretty much know sub is an opiate and its not for use longer than 2 weeks..my son was on it for 3 days in the re-hab..thats it..he had slight withdrawels for 2 days. i guess withdrawels are different for everyone it must depend upon your usage, the length of time you have been on drugs etc..Podee, maybe you can answer that for me..why do some people have horrific withdrawels and others not.???

     
    Old 04-21-2007, 05:13 AM   #20
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    My understanding of Sub is this, It is what Dr's call a partial agonist, different from herion or whatever in the fact that it does not completely bind to all receptors thus filling up enough of the receptors in your brain to make you think your satisfied, when in fact u are. It is not a full agonist like most other opiate based narcotics, but is still very much one of them. My experience is , yes , i felt normal...normal being on some opiate, as I have been for many years...so yeah, naturally in did feel normal, minus nodding out occasionally and the feel good burst of energy it gives immediatly upon taking. As far as not being able to get high with other substances ...thats not true in my case, just needed to take more than usual, and still didnt get quite the same effect, not to say i didnt get any effect...that wouldnt be true at all. I wish I could give you the hindsight 2 years on sub gave me but now that im off, Im staying off.
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    Old 04-21-2007, 10:24 AM   #21
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    For the comments regarding maintenance or detox (Sub & Methadone), we should understand itís an individual decision. Those drugs are medication designed for either. For some itís a ball and chain, for others itís a saving grace. There is no right or wrong in either choice. The only time there may be a problem is in a relationship where both people do not feel the same way. Otherwise it's really 'to each his own'. And remember, there are MDs (and sometimes much needed counseling) involved. Different than an illicit self medicating addiciton.

     
    Old 04-21-2007, 11:50 AM   #22
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jules3 View Post
    podee, soryy i am not as informed as you are..but i am trying my hardest to gain all the knowledge i can..i pretty much know sub is an opiate and its not for use longer than 2 weeks..my son was on it for 3 days in the re-hab..thats it..he had slight withdrawels for 2 days. i guess withdrawels are different for everyone it must depend upon your usage, the length of time you have been on drugs etc..Podee, maybe you can answer that for me..why do some people have horrific withdrawels and others not.???
    Withdrawals - to answer your question, this depends on the person, his age and constitution, general health, and other factors that are unknown. But most of all it depends on how much opiate he took and for how long. The first opiate habit an addict develops seems to have a lessened withdrawal, but the last withdrawal is not necessarily the worst. Every opiate addict remembers the first really serious withdrawal he experienced, doubling over in pain doing "the halibut" all night in sweats and muscle convulsions. Almost every opiate addict has withdrawn or tried to withdraw more than once.

    Suboxone contains both buprenorphine and naloxone.

    The naloxone (opiate blocking component) in suboxone provides no opiate blocking in the body. In fact, it is gone by the time the suboxone is absorbed into the bloodstream. The only reason the naloxone is there is to prevent abuse - junkies crushing the tablets and injecting them, for example. The naloxone just blocks the immediate effects of the buprenorphine hydrochloride in the suboxone tablet itself. Nothing more.

    Suboxone's active ingredient Buprenorphine is an opiate. However, this particular opiate has both an agonist and antagonist mechanism. It is an agonist in that it fills the same receptors as any other opiate (and therefore creates its own addiction). It is an antagonist in that it binds so tightly to receptors that it competes with other opiates.

    For this latter reason it is a good drug to use to detox off something like heroin because it tends to not allow heroin into the system. This does not mean it will not allow other opiates in, but it tries to compete with them for placement in the brain.

    During the first week of use, suboxone reduces or even eliminates the withdrawal symptoms from the other opiate like heroin. Some people using suboxone feel no withdrawal at all from the heroin. Some feel mild withdrawal like sweats. All experience less withdrawal than they would going through it cold turkey.

    Within a week or so, all of the heroin or whatever opiate the person is trying to detox from is gone from the system. At this point the addict should start reducing the suboxone dose by about 50% every couple of days, until he is off completely. There will still be a mild withdrawal from the suboxone, and a rebound effect of feeling bad for up to a month (see below link):
    [url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=482898[/url]
    but this will be nothing compared to the cold turkey getting off the original heroin.

    Some people keep using suboxone beyond the two week or so period, and develop a full on dependence to suboxone. Most addicts then find it very hard to get off suboxone, calling it the "wolf in sheep's clothing" or the like.

    Last edited by Podee; 04-21-2007 at 12:05 PM.

     
    Old 04-21-2007, 08:20 PM   #23
    jules3
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    Thanks yet again podee, my son did not have horrible withdrawels. mostly just sweats stomach cramps and a feeling of being cold..still till this day feels cold more than the rest of us and he is 52 days clean. but than agiAn he was in a rehab not in front of my face when he was going thru it and he seems to have some memory loss, so i guess i will never know.

     
    Old 04-23-2007, 06:23 AM   #24
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    I didn't know suboxone was used for withdrawal from heroin? Is this new?

    Last edited by lmb1964; 04-23-2007 at 04:37 PM.

     
    Old 04-23-2007, 07:37 AM   #25
    jules3
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    imb, you are right. im not even talking about myself, im talking about my 21 yr old son. he is going to n.a meetings almost everynight. but again they see him as another addict. there is so much more about him that they dont know. im trying not to use the word narrow minded..every BODY is different, what works for you might not work for the next person. my son tells me all the time he will handle his recovery his own way..really, i dont care as long as he stays clean..

     
    Old 04-23-2007, 08:16 PM   #26
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    jules, you are such a fabulous Mom, I've been reading your posts for a little while (BP board too) and I'm amazed by your loyalty, commitment and compassion for your son. I only hope I can do as well a job with my daughter. Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences, I've found them very helpful. Have a good night, jkm

     
    Old 04-24-2007, 05:15 AM   #27
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    Thank you, you are very sweet.

     
    Old 04-24-2007, 05:45 AM   #28
    lmb1964
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    Jules you keep up the good work, do what is right for you and your son and follow the therapist and doctors advice. Even if he may have a problem with the suboxone later (and there is no proof he will) so be it, at least he won't be on his own, sneaking and running around alone, he will be under the care of doctors and a mother who supports him no matter what! Best wishes to you both!

    Oh, in case you didn't notice there are a couple of posters on these boards that seem to go to every post that mentions suboxone and trys to scare everybody about it! Yes, they had a bad experience with it but they didn't follow their doctors instructions. Oh, and they told me I got a high off the Sub even when I said I didn't, they don't know me and the other struggles I have in my life, I really don't know what their point is here.

    Last edited by lmb1964; 04-24-2007 at 05:47 AM. Reason: spelling

     
    Old 04-24-2007, 08:19 AM   #29
    jules3
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    Re: I have to try suboxone

    o imb, he is not on sub, he was only on it for a few days while he was in the re-hab.I really dont have an opinion because i dont know too much about it..but ive come to the conclusion that everybody needs to do what is right for them..

     
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