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    Old 07-05-2007, 08:21 PM   #16
    goody2shuz
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Karen ~ I just came across your newest post that you must have posted while I was writing.

    Okay....you want the jest of it....our household for the past 4-5 years has been a minefield!!! Everything you describe regarding lies and manipulation well we have had more than our share of that. There were times that if they weren't my own flesh and blood I would have left just to keep my own sanity.

    Now...our younger daughter is so much better now since she has been diagnosed and treated. Hubby and I went through family therapy and learned that alot of the problem was our not standing united. AND....issuing consequences that we could follow through with. Once we got on the same page our daughters had no power....alot of the time they would pit one of us against the other and they knew that emotionally they could hurt me more so they were like vipers and would say and do things while hubby wasn't around only to have him walk into the door with cat fights going on. They were in mission mode doing everything and anything to get their way.

    But things are much better....with the therapy we have received it has not only helped us with our younger daughter but also with our older one.

    Now as far as what you describe, Karen, I see your daughter playing you....she is being all nice and calm so long as she sees that things are going her way. Once she heard Strattera she had a problem....and you KNOW her past with Adderall and it is only right that you have your concerns. I can't help but think that she has an alterior motive here....I may be off but from my experience whenever something doesn't go their way they go back to their nasty behavior trying to wear you down until they do get their way. Your daughter was doing okay once she knew that she was going to be evaluated for ADD. But she is upset about the way things are proceeding....I just get a very uncomfortable feeling here and KNOW that I will most likely be experiencing the same with my daughter once we go for her evaluation.

    I could be wrong but I would say go with your gut feeling....our instincts as moms are usually pretty good.

    I know that adrenalin rush that keeps us from sleep....but I have learned that we have to do like they say on the plane....put the oxygen mask on ourselves before we can help our children. Remember that!!

    (((HUGS))) ~ Goody

     
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    Old 07-05-2007, 08:33 PM   #17
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Goody:

    That's exactly it. Driving a wedge between the parents, finding the one that will support you no matter what and playing that to its fullest. The stress and tension is so thick around here. Our older daughter is working at a camp in Minnesota this summer so she is luckily removed from it. If I question my daughter's motives then I get slammed from both parties...her and her father. I do have a hard time keeping my mouth shut though and my opinions do tend to come out on this subject. I'm not the most tactful person, I'll admit. At this point I'm going to suggest that my husband talk to some people who have seen these interactions and see if a second or third opinion will have any effect on him. If not, then maybe family therapy is next in line. I know he means well and thinks he's doing what's best for our child, but I think it's hurting her more in the long run. I also think this thread will be removed as it's getting off track again...due to me! Maybe a new segment on ADD and its effect on interpersonal relations.

    Karen

    Last edited by frazzledparent; 07-06-2007 at 01:08 PM.

     
    Old 07-05-2007, 08:53 PM   #18
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Karen,

    Trust has to earned. Police action need not be forever but until daughter has earned trust.

    Goody,

    Meds are so complicated. I have no more to give on them.

    There is this guy that has a web site devoted to crazy meds. His language makes a drunk sailor blush. But he has this way of helping me quickly cut through the you know what.

    It was he that set me straight on the med decision.

    Here is what he said: What is worse? The risk/side-effects of the med or the disorder?

    The decision became simple. Wife was crying - daily. She knew and I knew if I didn't start functioning real soon, we were going to lose it all. I said "yes" to drugs.

    I can't do better. Your daughters are facing an addiction risk. Damn, that is bad. Your daughters are facing a life of misery, underachivement and drug addiction if their ADHD isn't managed.

    Which one's worse?

    My take, easy to make, because I don't get to live with the consequences, is: Do everything you can to mitigate the addiction risk. And get your daughters well.

    Bob

    PS I don't mean to discourage you, but I am so glad I am not in your shoes. I would never sleep again, ever.
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    Old 07-05-2007, 08:58 PM   #19
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Karen ~ the questions you discuss regarding meds is an important one and one in which I thank you for posting. I am hoping that the questions that we both have regarding that will continue to be answered.

    As far as opening up another topic regarding the effects upon the family that would probably be a good idea and I will be happy to share any experiences that I have regarding that.

    Have you actually received a script for the Strattera as of yet?? And as far as dispensing it, while she is at home I would do so. You want to make sure that she is taking it as perscribed and the first month or so will be important in terms of measuring it's effectiveness.

    I am anxious to see what side effects that Addprogrammer elaborates on as far as Strattera is concerned.

    Hang in there, Karen....I know how this all can take a toll on you and it is so important that you take care of yourself too.

    (((HUGS))) ~ Goody

     
    Old 07-05-2007, 09:25 PM   #20
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    ADDprogrammer ~ thanks for your insight. Yes, I have alot of sleepless nights but am doing the best that I can. With alcoholism/addictions on both sides of the family I KNOW and always have known my daughters would be at great risk. We have always shared with them our concerns regarding their genetic predisposition...thing is, I have two brother in laws who have been in and out of rehabs all of their lives as well as jail and I am convinced that they were Bipolar and never diagnosed/treated. My father in law is a dry alcoholic and my maternal grandmother was an alcoholic and in psychiatric hospitals for manic depression....so with that history I have always had concern for my girls.

    My older daughter worries me the most regarding the addictions......even knowing our family history she still chooses to drink and experiment with drugs. I have told her that she is playing a game of Russian Roulette....that one day it will all catch up with her and ruin her life. She is 18 and pretty much on her own....it is so difficult to do anything other than I have done short of locking her up and that is something I cannot do. Sometimes it feels as if I can only save one of my girls....the younger one I still legally have a say in her health care and am doing my darndest to get her stabilized....but I don't want to give up on my older one. Her asking for help could be a Godsend or a way for her to just manipulate the system and me as well. She has a way of doing that....there is alot of good to her but I am so worried that this will not be a phase and could worsten.

    I know that you understand my concerns and I thank you for your support.

    I will look further into the meds and appreciate your sharing what you could with me & Karen.

    ~ Goody

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 04:12 AM   #21
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Goody and Karen,

    kjrunner has the ADHD drug information you need.

    You must reread kyrunner's "Insights of ADD/ADHD as an adult" posts several times. The posts are not long winded. They are, in fact, compressed files. Unzip them and you got a well written book. She underscores therapies that work, the complexity of ADHD management, and the many corollary ADHD emotional difficulties and their management.

    For your convenience I clipped kj's medication accounts. Italics for attribution.

    First, we tried Strattera. As a distance runner, I didn't want to go the stimulant route. Since they were "banned," I didn't want to adjust to going on and off of them when I ran races. Granted, I am not a pro athlete, so it would likely not be an issue...but I wanted to have the security that my times were mine.

    I could not tolerate the fatigue with Strattera while taking the preliminary dose of 25 mg (104 lbs). I endured it for 5 days...

    Next, we did Wellbutrin. While the effects are not as pronounced, there were no side effects. I seemed to mellow and I noticed myself having to return for forgotten items. My husband could tell a difference.

    Insight #1: Some people may find the perfect med on the first try. For others, it is trial and error. Just because the first thing does not work, that does not mean that something else will.

    Also, there is a diffeence in generic and name brand--regardless of what the FDA says.

    I have some OCD qualities or rather the tendency to fixate. Being the most ADD drugs target Dopamine/NE/EPI, these meds may accdentuate this.

    I was finally referred to a professional in regards to the ADD....also a smooth way of getting an ED eval as well. My doctor had suspected my eating problems prior, but she could not prove it...I was also referred to a psychiatrist for my meds....

    We also added an SSRI to the mix with the Wellbutrin. I was scared to death of taking an SSRI bec I feared weight gain. She had reservations about a stimulant due to my eating disorder....but since I was training for Boston, I was not motivated to lose additonal weight. And, if I wanted a diet pill, I could have found a cheaper one at Walgreens.

    Went back to my regular doc and she agreed to rx Adderall. But, she and my therapist were going to "watch me like a hawk." I had to go into the office to have my weight checked for 8 months. I still see her every 3 months.

    That was over a year ago....things are getting better as I work with my therapist. My marriage is great. And, I was just accepted to Pharmacy school and will start in 2008


    There is no simple quick ADHD fix no matter how we cut it. Expect to experience kj's experience. Is it worth it? Read again last italized bold paragraph.

    Bob

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 01:05 PM   #22
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Goody/Bob:

    No, we don't have the prescription yet for Strattera. My husband made the appointment today with the family doc and the soonest they could get my daughter in was Wednesday. I see that kjrunner experienced great fatigue with Strattera. My daughter sleeps enough as it is (but not diagnosed with depression)...that wouldn't be good for her, especially if she's heading back to school. Addprogrammer has mentioned a couple of times, I believe, about getting through the "first couple of weeks" with the drug. Bob, could you be more specific regarding the side effects of Strattera that you were talking about? And finally, I do plan on distributing the meds to my daughter. She has a history of not remembering to take her allergy shots, and other medication and then complaining that nothing is working! I know that is part of the ADHD so I'll administer the drug until it starts working and then maybe she can remember to take it herself?!?!?!

    Karen

    Last edited by frazzledparent; 07-06-2007 at 01:10 PM.

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 04:17 PM   #23
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Karen,

    Please don't call me Goody/Bob. It is not cool for a guy to be called a goody. Baddy Bob we can do. Damn TID's still at work.

    Ok, let me try to get serious here because you ladies have a very serious problem on your hands. Me and kjrunner are close psychological twins. OK, she's smarter, but we've established that the gals rule the roast on this broad. Good to see Rheanna back in play. Let me tell you I am an experienced ADHD practictioner, that sort of means that I know what I am talking about, sort of. Point is Rheanna's posts nail topics with zero error tolerance.

    Here is a suggestion: Rheanna, Callista, and kjrunner get in the brain biz. Help a few people and make a few bucks to boot. I'm like shrinks, I expect to get paid for my work. I guess I'm evil too. All three elucidate brain abstractions that my stoggy 55 yo brain can't easily wrap around better than any book written by a "professional." There is something to be said (negatively) about people that don't have the bear by the tail telling people that have the bear by the tail how to manage said bear. Know what I mean?

    Incidently, Karen, I'll get to the point. I got up very eary this AM. You and Shuz's made me go to bed too late, (a classic it's all your fault ADHD ploy) read Amen's book "Healing ADD." per kjrunner's recommendation. That is the book that uncovers all my old tricks. One of my favorite old trick was starting arguments because agreeing is boring. I guess it is not quite as bad as starting a war to liven things up, but I tell you true, I came close on numerous occasions. Anything ring bell with daughters situation?

    What the heck am I talking about. Yes, my meds have pooped out. My ADHD brain is straining to keep the thread. Normally I'd edit a tangental ramble such as this but I am not so you can see one of the things ADHD does to me. Tangents And Arctangents And Digressions so off topic that what does this have to do with the price of gas. Put this unmedicated brain in a classroom where no one "believed in" ADHD or even heard of ADHD for that matter and my handle became StupidProgrammer. I know I sound stupid but I am not stupid I am ADHD.

    I am amazed at how early what we are presents itself. Want to know what I daydreamed about in high school when I was suppose to be listening? Logic gates. Logic gates are transistor arrangements in our CPUs. The CPU in our computers not head. Ok, I'll come clean, I daydreamed logic gates .009 per cent of time. I was a teenage boy. Do you know what teenage boys think about 99.991 per cent of the time? Yeah, you do. Keep those bad doggies away from daughter till worthy wolf turns up. I designed logic gates because I couldn't come up with a meg and third bucks for a Univac. The thing was a piece of crap anyway.

    I tell you some good news about daughter.

    1. She can beat everyone to the finish line. Her problem my problem, don't ask us how we got there. If creativity is rapid problem solving like rapidly solving software abstraction problems, I am creative. Per Callista. I see how to do it first. I know how to do it first. I just can't do it first because once problem is solved it's boring and writing code is boring as can be. I am working on someone else doing the writing again.

    2. Your daughter is a born leader. She doesn't follow rules, she makes them. Harness and control that and she'll fly. Don't stick a round plug in a square hole. College is cool. Some crafts can't be learned any other way. But if said craft is not ADHD friendly it is going to end in disaster - per kjrunner. The thing I like about higher education is getting a broad knowledge of everything. We may part paths here but my experience is higher education does not guarantee higher income. One third of all college grads work at jobs not even remotely related to their degree. The ticket to making dough is two fold. 1. Do what you enjoy doing because that is what your good at. 2. Make sure first that what you enjoy doing is something people are willing to buy. If daughter and college are bad mix, point her to good mix. Bill Gates quite college. He is able to make a living.

    Now, finally, Baddy Bob arrives.

    RE: I see that kjrunner experienced great fatigue with Strattera. My daughter sleeps enough as it is (but not diagnosed with depression)...that wouldn't be good for her, especially if she's heading back to school. Addprogrammer has mentioned a couple of times, I believe, about getting through the "first couple of weeks" with the drug. Bob, could you be more specific regarding the side effects of Strattera that you were talking about?
    Don't have to be more specific. Same thing. I couldn't stay awake. I did stick with it and after a few weeks the fatigue cleared up and yep, not a half bad ADHD med. The intolerable problem for me was things that are suppose to happen when two people are married weren't happening. I'll give up a lot to conquer ADHD but not that.

    Goody,

    Another "thing" about ADHD is how we read. We cheat. I ask myself at a subconscious level what is this about. I target that. Once I think I got it I stop reading. I rarely read more than 50% of the words. That caused a major factor you revealed to fall through the cracks. Your daughter is managing life pretty well, if you ask me. I doubt if her ADHD goal is to party less. Only four parties a week? Either everyone in the sixties was ADHD (and that is possible) or four parties per week is three parties short for an 18 yo. I am not saying its good. Teens have been known to do dumb things. I just don't think its ADHD.

    It could be that your best med choice is no med. Your daughter and I differ at a fundamental level. I couldn't do the work. I wanted to but couldn't. She can and does. I don't think she'll come away with bozo level self-esteem like I did. I'm sure you know, but just in case, low self-esteem is the worse ADHD consequence. Low self-esteem makes life miserable. And it is irreconciable. I know I am not stupid but I'm stupid so I must be stupid. Then we set goals and self expectations accordingly. Why not become a dope fiend. At least I'm good at that. I'm not kidding. Low self-esteem does things like that.

    You gals aren't going to MAKE ME stay up late again. Out of here.

    Bob

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 04:36 PM   #24
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Mr. Programmer:

    I must say, that was an interesting read. You know, Bobby, you spelled board as "broad"...when you were talking about us ladies (2nd paragraph of your post). That's quite a blunder! Okay, so the sleepiness went away after a couple of weeks on Strattera. That's good to know. As far as the other, I wonder how it effects women? Guess I'll ask the doc, although I think that might be a "good" side effect for my daughter! I will not dwell on this anymore tonight...and I'll try not to dwell on it until Wednesday. Then, I'll run to the nearest drug store, with whatever prescription in hand, and pop a pill down said daughter's throat...and...wait....

    Last edited by frazzledparent; 07-06-2007 at 04:39 PM.

     
    Old 07-06-2007, 04:44 PM   #25
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Freudian slip? I'm bad doggie.
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    Old 07-06-2007, 06:18 PM   #26
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Also, Wellbutrin is also used as an off label approach. The "intensity" is lower, but there are not the highs and lows that can be found with the stimulants.

    Last edited by moderator2; 07-06-2007 at 06:30 PM.

     
    Old 07-07-2007, 12:12 PM   #27
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addprogrammer View Post

    Here is what he said: What is worse? The risk/side-effects of the med or the disorder?

    The decision became simple. Wife was crying - daily. She knew and I knew if I didn't start functioning real soon, we were going to lose it all. I said "yes" to drugs.

    I can't do better. Your daughters are facing an addiction risk. Damn, that is bad. Your daughters are facing a life of misery, underachivement and drug addiction if their ADHD isn't managed.

    Which one's worse?

    My take, easy to make, because I don't get to live with the consequences, is: Do everything you can to mitigate the addiction risk. And get your daughters well.

    Bob

    PS I don't mean to discourage you, but I am so glad I am not in your shoes. I would never sleep again, ever.
    Bob ~ The question you ask in this post is exactly what I asked myself when having to choose whether to put my younger daughter on an antipsychotic with many potentially harmful side effects. The psychiatrist helped put my concerns to rest by tellling me that there would be a greater risk of harm to daughter leaving her unmedicated than any drug that would ever be perscribed for her.

    Also, with my younger daughter the decision to medicate was so much easier, she was cutting herself and had attempted suicide twice, was arrested for shoplifting and running away from home putting herself into dangerous situations....all at the age of 14. However, with my older daughter she is quite functional and getting great grades in college and has been working jobs ever since she was able to work a job. And her employers love her!! So it makes it even more difficult for me to KNOW what to do for her in terms of medicating vs. unmedicating if ADD/ADHS is what is diagnosed. I don't want to open up a whole can of worms here because like you say, the bottom line is which is worse the side effects of the med or the disorder.

    I am taking your advice to heart....I am a mother who doesn't like to be put in the situation of making the WRONG decision and this is just one of those times that is so scary.

    I am going to open up another thread to discuss some other concerns that I have that don't have to do with meds. I am sure that I can count on you and the others here to guide me along the way and thank you for all of your wonderful advice....that goes for you Rheanna, kjrunner and Karen too for sticking it out as I share my concerns here.


    ~ Goody, not so baddy

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 07-07-2007 at 12:17 PM.

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 09:04 AM   #28
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Thanks for your input! My daughter did, in fact, get some Strattera from the doctor on this past Wednesday. The doc gave her some samples and she was to take 40mg for three days and then increase that to 80mg. I've noticed a "happier" child/young adult and one that is much more inclined to follow our requests/suggestions. However, she claims that the medication is making her cold. She said she is "freezing" all the time. She is a lifeguard at an indoor pool (YMCA) and said that she had to get out of the warm water pool...80 degrees...because her lips were turning blue. The only other side effect she has had was the dry mouth. Does anyone have any knowledge of this "freezing" side effect? Could it be something serious???? We are going to give the doc a call on Monday, but I would appreciate any input anyone has who has ever taken Strattera.

    Karen

    Last edited by frazzledparent; 07-15-2007 at 09:05 AM.

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 10:31 AM   #29
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Karen,

    It is so good to hear that daughter is responding nicely to Strattera.

    RE: "Cold" problem. If her blood pressure is normal, don't worry about it.

    Why? Best I can do is a guess ... I can't sit still. I can sit but not still. One or both feet are tapping. Like all geeks, I pick my nose and fling boggers. On my meds, all extraneous activities stop except the flinging. Said activities are increasing my metabolic rate. My guess is that the reduction from less movement is greater than the increase in metobolic rate caused by Strattera in daughters case. Lower metabolic rate means we get cold easier.

    I could be and probably am totally wrong.

    One thing for sure, I forgot to grow up. Worse part. Don't want to now.

    TIDs is COOL.

    However, destructive behavior because of ADHD is not. Whew, glad she is doing so well.

    Bob

     
    Old 07-15-2007, 09:26 PM   #30
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    Re: Please explain the various ADD meds

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frazzledparent
    I've noticed a "happier" child/young adult and one that is much more inclined to follow our requests/suggestions
    Wow, Karen!!! I am soo glad to hear this and the response you see in your daughter in such a short time.

    Funny how our daughters seem to have alot in common....mine worked as a lifeguard last summer...she is now working at the same resort but now as a front desk receptionist!! Anyway....our evaluation is on Friday...I am sooo nervous and sure hope that they are able to figure this all out with us.

    Anyway.....I am so glad to hear about your daughter's progress!! It is great news and thanks for the wonderful update.

    Siusaidh ~ I am glad to hear about the wonderful results you are having with the Strattera. Our family has a strong history of addictions and my daughter tends to party alot so I do have my concerns if they end up diagnosing her with ADD/ADHD. She seems to have alot of energy...always has to be doing something and is extremely impulsive and has lots of irritability. She also says that she cannot concentrate in her classes at college and has alot of things going through her mind at once. Have you experienced similar symptoms?? And will Straterrra help with that??? I would appreciate any input you may have to share.

    ~ Goody

     
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